International Touring Pilot Lifestyle

[Zero-Zero]

If this has been covered under another post, I apologize. I'm considering applying for a 6/6 international touring offshore pilot position with a major operator. The flying sounds great, as does the pay, but I have some basic questions regarding the lifestyle. The 6 weeks away from my family would be tough for all of us, but 6 weeks off with my kids would be great. Could some of you who have been doing this for a while comment about how this schedule has been for your family long term?

At crew bases for major operators such as CHC and Bristow, is the internet connectivity generally good enough to Skype? Also, I wonder about the camaraderie between crews. Are these bases usually pretty tight, with people hanging out together, cooking meals together, etc, or does everyone just do their job and go back to their room? I've worked EMS bases with a family-type atmosphere, and others where everyone kept to themselves. Personally, I much prefer a team environment.

Also, I wonder how major operators are at honoring the 6/6 schedule. Do you often get stretched to do a 7/5, or even an 8/4, for the good of the company? Then, there's the sticky issue of taxes. If I lived in the USA and worked in an African country, would I have to pay taxes for both locations?

As you can see, I'm new here, and maybe didn't search extensively enough to find the 100 other times these questions have been asked in the past. :O Thanks in advance for the helpful replies.

[gulliBell]

.....If I lived in the USA and worked in an African country, would I have to pay taxes for both locations?.

Taxation is usually as per whatever the laws are of your country of residency. If you are domiciled in the US and touring 6/6 to somewhere which has low or no income tax, I think the IRS are going to want to tax your take-home pay. If you pay taxes in the country where you work, at home you'll probably have to declare how much you've earned and how much tax has been deducted. In which case you might end up not having to pay any more income tax (i.e. don't get taxed twice on the same income).

As for the touring lifestyle questions, if you have a young family then to be away from home for 6 weeks is a long haul, even with the convenience of Skype etc. For me, 4/4 is about as much as I can manage before the "wheels start falling off" things at home. If I were single then 8/4 wouldn't be a problem. It's whatever your personal circumstances dictate.

[212man]

00,
to answer a few points briefly:

BHL and CHC will pay tax in your work location

Any time spent over 6/6 will be at a day rate, however travel and sim will be in the off time

Camaraderie is normally pretty good and distinguishes these operations from the larger non-touring bases. Typically they are 'work hard, play hard' operations

Don't expect US/European standards of internet but it is normally adequate (though subject to interruptions in some places.)When I started in Nigeria I used to use an HF to Telephone patch (Portishead) while flying, so these things are all relative!

[vaqueroaero]

I have just started doing the same thing, so can answer you first hand. I work a 28/28.

With regards to the schedule the opportunity for work over is there, occasionally it works against me, but there are enough single guys here that are keen for flight time and money so generally it gets covered.

I have an iPad, so use FaceTime to stay in touch with my son, who is 5. I make a point to say goodnight, we eat dinner together sometimes over the Internet. He gets a real kick out of it. I have also facetimed from the rigs which he loves. The Internet connection at our digs is somewhat sporadic which can be really annoying. If it goes down I drive back to the office and connect from there. I also use T Mobile which has built in wifi calling (sort of like Skype). That has been a lifesaver. As long as I can connect to a wifi area I can phone the misses for free, also includes texting. I paid for international calling, but for some reason it won't work - something I need to sort out when I get home. In case of emergencies the wife has the base managers phone number.

Our digs are good, we cook our own dinners, but get well fed from the rigs so we eat light in the evening. Satellite tv, DVD players, air conditioning all work great. I shall be taking some fishing gear on my next trip for beach fishing. It can get a little boring at times.

As far as team work etc "people's is people's". We all get along and obviously it is very important.

My neighbors at home are great support for when stuff breaks/ blows up/ falls off etc. One guy can fix anything which has proved very useful. My wife's family lives close by which is a great support network.

Other than that it seems to be working for us. If it gets to the point where it doesn't then I shall move on, but the money is good and the time at home is very enjoyable. I get a lot of projects done!

[Zero-Zero]

Thanks everyone for the great replies! We have a lot to ponder. Vaqueroaero, we have a pretty good support network at home as well, and that could make all the difference.

[inputshaft]

Take the "work hard, play hard" thing with a pinch of salt. Many of the international contracts are for exploration work, where you might fly once or twice a week supporting one rig and then have to cope with being in a remote area with limited social life. Boredom is the enemy for many. The reverse of that is that it's pretty much easy money for what many of us do.

[VFRIFR]

I have an iPad, so use FaceTime to stay in touch with my son, who is 5. I make a point to say goodnight, we eat dinner together sometimes over the Internet.

Well at least somebody has the luxury of working in the same time zone which for most of us time zones are 8-15 hours apart.:(

[Camp Freddie]

Well at least somebody has the luxury of working in the same time zone which for most of us time zones are 8-15 hours apart

The pedant in me can't let this go, you can be 15 hours ahead or behind in basic terms, i.e. 6pm - 9am, but you are only 9 hours 'apart', in fact you can never be more than 12 hours apart :)

[vaqueroaero]

I have a 5 hour difference, so I eat late! Not as bad as it could be.

[Epiphany]

Leave your values, beliefs, religion and judgements at home. Many of the places you will work in will quite probably have very different ones. You may see grinding poverty, skinny kids who have nothing but the few clothes they stand up in with mothers who are little more than birth machines. A situation perpetuated by corrupt governments that the mutil-national companies that you are working for are quite probably helping to stay in power.

Take the money, lie by the pool on your day off, tell your wife and kids it is hot and sunny and you miss them but don't spend too much time thinking about what you are doing there.

[Zero-Zero]

Great to hear about FaceTime! How many of you can use iPad Facetime at your base, like VaqueroAero? I assume all you need is WiFi...

Also, I wonder what life is like for the Base Manager/Lead Pilot. Is this person able to completely "drop the pack" when they're off for 6 weeks, or are they attached to their blackberry/email resolving issues from home?

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Zero-Zero;

I used to work 6/6 at the end as senior pilot. There was another SP who was my back to back, we used to e-mail each other the day before travelling about what was going on and then do a brief handover at the airport (he would leave on the plane I had just flown in on) that way our time off was ours with just a brief contact with the ops director for a report on everything at the end of a tour, the company were very good about leaving us alone, and a far as possible all sim/training time was done on their time not ours.

However; really take heed of what Epiphany writes, it is some of the most sensible advice I have read about this subject. It becomes very easy to want to change the world. On one posting I was on we actually built a school in our spare time and the whole company helped us to raise the money, I'm not sure we were right, but it salved a few consciences.

Also, we rotated people through on days so that you didn't have the same people in country all the time, small personal scratches can become magnified by the pressure of living so closely together and friction can result. We found this better for all as it stopped crews flying together all the time and building bad habits in the aircraft.

I would go back to commuting tomorrow if I could find a spot in the sun with no more than one flight a week, a bar staffed by olive skinned naked beauties and no-one telling the present Lady Dementia that I'm actually having fun.

SND

[inputshaft]

Zero-zero. I'd really caution you against trying to get directly into the business as a BM.

Think about it, you're with a small group working for what may not be the easiest customer, isolated in a society that you will not be familiar with. The support from the company may sometimes be at best "theoretical", your staff may or may not always be happy, the phone calls and emails to corporate may not always get answered. Be fair to yourself and others who might work for you by getting a feel for the business and the company for a while.

[Zero-Zero]

Epiphany and SND, I appreciate your candid advice. It is good to hear that for the most part, you can leave the job completely behind you when you're home. Inputshaft, I'm not considering applying for BM right away - I know I would be a line pilot first and pay my dues. Just looking down the road a little and asking the "what if?" questions now for future reference.

Thanks again everyone! It's great to be part of a forum where people are professional, unlike some other unmentionable helicopter websites...

[Epiphany]

ZZ be aware that you might well find yourself as BM if you express a desire to be one as it is not a job many want. The extra pay is minimal and not worth the additional work, stress and frequent complaints from customer and head office. Most guys I know who take the BM route do so because they are looking at a managerial position down the track.

This must also be one of the few industries where a person can become a BM with absolutely no experience, training, talent or ability. I've seen some shockers.

[Bladestrike]

The BM gigs can be rewarding, depends on how you look at it. I have zero desire to move into mangement but took a BM gig as no on else would do it, and the base had been through a bunch of them. I thoroughly enjoyed the challenge and learnt a ton, but DO NOT DO IT FOR THE COIN, it ain't worth it. Base moves, crewing issues, customs, flight permits, local staff, etc. etc. you'll be far busier than your fellow pilots, but if boredom is an issue, this will be sure way to help the time pass quickly. If you don't know how to deal with stress, it'll be a steep learning curve, but you could come through it with better skills than most ever get a chance to develop. As far as the social aspect, you'll get guys that hibernate in their rooms and guys who want to explore around every corner. You generally don't get to choose where you go or with whom, but you can make the most out of any posting. Just in the last year alone, I've been to more places, seen more things, done more things, than I could have imagined, waaaay off the beaten path. I enjoy touring far more than I thought I would, but then again, I'd prefer a job where I could sleep in my own bed. Try it on for size for a couple years, then you'll know what's right for you.

[Milo C]

Please, can anyone tells what's an aprox anual salary for a medium twin touring captain?

Thanks in advance

[mikelimapapa]

Anywhere from 7-12k USD per month depending on what part of the world you are willing to go to

[Milo C]

Thank you very much, MLP.
That's the kind of answer I was looking for.

[SASless]

I did the "touring" thing for a great many years. I had a love-hate relationship with it.

I loved the time off....liked the money....hated some of the places i found myself in....made friends all over the World...and got an education that cannot be bought or found at any University.

I found the Offshore work to be boring.

Onshore work much more enjoyable....the more remote the better with the exception of a Geologist's Fly Camp....avoid them like the Pox! I don't mind living rough but Geologists really enjoy being miserable!

Alaska is great, Africa can be depending upon where you are....Asia, Southeast Asia is wonderful.

For way too many years BHL insisted upon an 8/4 rotation....which plainly sucked.....6/6 is the norm now and the only roster I would consider. One can stand on your head for six weeks at a time and having a full six weeks off is perfect. By the time your time off is done...you are ready to go back to work to rest up.

Forget the BM idea.....as has been said....not enough money for the headaches. Taking on Challenges is one thing but there is a limit to the reward one gets for doing so....especially when the rate of pay is so poor.

You will meet great folks....good folks....and Assholes.....just like anywhere else but overall you will find long term touring folks good fun to be around. I treasure some of the friends I have made over the years.

As to taxes....you will have to pay Uncle Sam for the pleasure of working overseas....but at a reduced rate as there is a set exemption for overseas earned income. Now days you might even earn enough to exceed that and thus have to pay taxes on the overage. If you are working for an foreign firm....especially if paid in a foreign currency....thus no W-2 Form.....you will have to "report" your earnings to the IRS. In all my years working overseas i was never audited by the IRS.

You will have to qualify for the exemption....read up on the law....get a good accountant who deals daily with these issues....and you will be good to go as far as dealing with the IRS.

By working overseas and NOT paying normal Income Tax.....you can save/invest a lot of money that you would not ordinarily be able to do. Do that....as overseas contract work can sometimes be a short lived thing which can wreak havoc on your Tax situation.

I retired at age 58 by saving and investing.....very few Gulf of Mexico pilots ever did that unless they had a Military Retirement before they started in the GOM.

The World Travel, seeing strange places, working with stranger people....make touring the right way to go if you can accept the differences and your marriage can survive the separation. Most marriages do not.

One thing you should be prepared for....if you work for a foreign company....you are not on the Home Team. Accept it and enjoy your time at home.

[mikelimapapa]

Sas,

Very well said, you make some excellent points. I've only been doing it for 2 years, but like you said, it is very much a love hate relationship.

I love the fact that my job affords me the money and time off to travel and see the world. Who else gets 24 weeks of holiday per year? And company paid airfare? And as you said, the characters in this business are as diverse as the countries that they come from. I have found quite often that one night in the pub, you can have the most interesting and random conversations and immediately have a mate for life. Plus, since the people come from all over, a great way to travel is to visit your coworkers in you time off, saves on accommodation and you get to see their country from a local's perspective.

But as you said, I also find offshore flying to be quite dull; normal T/O, straight and level, steep approach, all day every day. And dealing with the locals takes a bit of time to get used to, you just have to accept the fact that western logic does not apply in most of these places. Lots of company politics, hassle with traveling at all hours of the night and often on short notice are all the downsides of the business.

Right now, for me, the upside far outweighs the down. But I am 28 and single, and have seen and done more in the last 2 years than most people experience in a lifetime. I'm sure at some point I will get sick of it and go back to a "normal" job.

Cheers,
Mike

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ...


Mike .... you are fast becoming one of 'those characters' ... watch out ! ;)


Hahahahahah ....





(from 'You know who' :E )

[mikelimapapa]

Hey Spin,

I guess you are right, stories of my escapades often make it back to work before I even return! Life isn't worth living, if you are not having fun!:ok:

Cheers,
Mike

[DoobyDoo]

Just wondering:

- how much experience required: do FO/SFO apply or is this a captains game?
- how many years in business expected/recommended?
- any women doing this?

[Bladestrike]

There's a few gals out there touring international, but definitely in the minority. I've only flown with one female in fifteen years of offshore. There should be more.

Some general requirements; bird less than 5700 kg, 2000 hours total and 1000 command, over 5700 kg; 3000 hours total and 1500 command for a Captain, and for an FO it's 500 multi and 100 command. It varies with customer/country/contract but these are good average requirements.

Many contracts/countries require the use of national FOs so it's a far easier market to break if you have Captain quals. Note above is minimums.

[spinwing]

Mmmmm .....


...... any women doing this? ....


I know of 2 women presently flying as Captains (Offshore) on B212 & A139 in the 'sandpit' .... both with the same company :D

[DoobyDoo]

Just asking - jobs in 3rd world / emerging countries can be tough. Know a civil engineer who tried troubleshooting for a drilling company in East Africa, Caucasus and "sandpit" as you call it, and she couldnt stand it. Loved her job, but found life too annoying in the non-working hours there.

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ...

Yup .... Equal opportunity can be tough :rolleyes:

[DoobyDoo]

Stupid comment really. Are many women not up to a competitive job? Probably. Do we sometimes have to put up with additional BS that men don't, especially in certain countries/cultures? Probably.

It's not about the equal part. But I guess some people like phantasizing their own favourite topics into whoever just happens to be around.

[GoodGrief]

You said it yourself, it's not about the job, competitive or not.
It's about the life style. In third world countries there is not much of a life.

Had a friend once in Goose bay who used to say:"There is only fishing and fu..ing. In winter-there is no fishing.

Pretty much the same here. No social life, no clubs, bars, restaurants. No proper food, no educated people to talk to, no hobbies...
We're here for the cash, and happy when the airliner outbound goes "Gear up!"
Nothing else.

[Bladestrike]

I don't know if I agree, depending on where you are. I quite enjoy mountain biking and snorkelling almost daily in East Africa, and culturally there's much to learn....go out fishing with locals on an ancient dhow, go to local festivals, etc. etc.. I seem to find things to do wherever I go.

https://picasaweb.google.com/116188736389762953183

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZstQ80ux_Ro/ULRhaCX7Q_I/AAAAAAAACqA/GEdPYT5WMSg/s640/DSC01241.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-U0InAbAhDMc/UijGS4EK64I/AAAAAAAAEb0/NZxy8zO33xA/s640/DSC04063.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-X1MQzBJSeuQ/UijGj2b9FJI/AAAAAAAAEb8/is_XfsFr6rY/s640/DSC03729.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-suvL_AoyNgQ/UijHN3l-FCI/AAAAAAAAEcI/bbk3UmWSq2Q/s640/photo.JPG

[pilot and apprentice]

BS! They put you on a 139? But you're not a new hire!!

Long time no see buddy!

DoobyDoo, your friend's issues may or may not be gender related. Many of the same things that I, and friends like Bladestrike, love about this work are horrors to some of our coworkers.

I am learning the local language right now, as I try to do in each country I work. Most coworkers can't understand why I would bother.

Many guys (or gals, you choose) won't go to a base unless they can be attached to facebook, facetime, skype, etc. My best times were on bases where I felt truly away from that world. Of course, depends on how old the kids are.

I relish the chance to explore new cuisine, and some guys won't eat breakfast if it isn't bangers and mash!

You won't know until you try, but take an honest look in the mirror and decide if you really want to know!

[helitime1]

Considering taking a touring position with CHC. I am sure I will be asked to do a tour or two to Africa. Anyone have any recent experience there? Need to know how safe the bases actually are. No way the wife is going to go for it without some info.

Thanks

[hueyracer]

If you take a look at google earth, you will discover that "Africa" is quiet a big country....so maybe you can be a bit more detailed about which country you are going to work in?

There is a huge difference working in Somalia or SA, or working in Egypt or Mali...

[unstable load]

helitime1,
I have spent most of my 23 years in aviation in Africa, and all I can say is that your happiness in the job/locale is entirely up to you. If you leave home expecting to struggle then chances are good that you will struggle. As said earlier, leave your politics/religious issues/prejudices and baggage at home, there will be lots for you where you are going. In most places, the Nationals will resent your presence because it either shows them up as inadequate or they will resent the often present salary differential.

I have worked in places where you can wander off to the shops or stop in at a pub for a beer and I have been in places where you need a police escort to and from work and are locked into a compound/camp/hotel because it's really unsafe for a foreigner to be out alone. I have heard bullets fly over the hangar and a machine has come back with holes in it. Colleagues have been kidnapped in one place.
Some can handle it, others leave or transfer out elsewhere.

I have garnered a working knowledge of Portuguese, Spanish and French as a result of my travels and I have seen places and things that have had me accused of being a liar when I talk about some of them.

Do I enjoy it?
I really don't enjoy being away from home for so long and missing the milestones in my kids' growth and developement, nor do I like having to leave it all for my wife to carry the load for so long by herself.
I really like the 5+ months off after travel which is on my time and the tax benefit makes it worthwhile, financially. When I am home, I do the morning school run and the fetching and carrying to give Madame a break and try to fit in to their lives without disrupting their balance too badly, because one thing that lots of folks don't realise is that your coming home IS special, but the world hasn't been stationary while you were away and there are things that happen day to day which you just need to accept and adapt to without rocking the boat too badly.

All in all, I really enjoy what I do and I do think you should give it a try, you may like it too.

[helitime1]

Thanks for the info.
hueyracer (http://www.pprune.org/members/246674-hueyracer) I am aware of how big Africa is. What I don't know is how many places CHC operates there. I have done 6 week tours before in third world countries so I sort of know what I am getting in too. The wife read on a forum about pilots getting kidnapped there, so I am hoping to calm her down a bit. Or possibly say no to going to "that base" I will be flying the 139 if that helps narrow things a bit.

[heloguy412]

I will be flying the 139 if that helps narrow things a bit.

Of course you are. :ugh:

[Bladestrike]

PM sent, presently two years in East Africa with CHC. I like it, most don't. Depends on what you expect.