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chipsbrand
18th Apr 2012, 07:26
Dear Sir Richard,
Please let me tell you why any appeal against the EU’s decision in respect of bmi is a waste of time and money.
The time to challenge the future of bmi was at the time that Sir Michael Bishop chose to sell the company to LH. That was when he did a deal with them which included a put option for them to acquire the business when he mandated it. The date of that deal was around 12 years ago. The EU looked at that deal when Sir Michael forced LH to acquire the company and they nodded it through. That was when Virgin should have started a major campaign against the whole deal. It was at that stage that the pass was lost.
Then bmi already was an effective competitor to BA at LHR on many routes and its network was still building. That bmi had a network at all goes back to 1984 when there was something called the Civil Aviation Review. That review was ordered by the government to assess the almost universal view of the private aviation sector that the privatisation of BA would damage the private sector. There was a united front in favour of safeguards for the rest of the industry until bmi broke ranks. It was widely believed at the time that bmi broke ranks because of a deal between Michael Bishop and Lord King, then Chairman of BA under which BA would not object to bmi competition at LHR. The prize for BA was to neutralise BCAL which was then its only likely long haul competitor. At that time BCAL was prevented from operating at LHR and wished to do so. Whatever the truth around the suspicions about that deal the net effect was that BCAL was prevented from operating at LHR and bmi was free to expand there. BCAL died 4 years later and was bought by BA.
bmi did expand and started to put together a credible network of largely reasonable frequency routes on both domestic and international routes. It competed head-on with BA on many of those routes and gained an excellent reputation with its Diamond Service. Although the product had changed the network was largely intact when LH acquired the company.
At the time of the Civil Aviation Review the debate was largely about British competition for BA. This was all several years before the liberalising legislation of the EU. Their first directive about liberalisation came about in December 1987.
The network that bmi built up at LHR was indeed British completion for BA. bmi’s assets at LHR, namely slots, were indeed British assets used to provide competition. But all this changed when the company was sold to LH. They became non-British assets and were free to be used in any way that LH wanted. So, perhaps inevitable, LH went about reducing the bmi network and transferring the slots to themselves, Austrian, Swiss and SN. In this process LH substantially increased competition between their group and BA by increasing frequencies between LHR and numerous cities in the homelands of those airlines but they decreased completion between British airlines. It is this transfer of sovereign rights that Virgin should have contested. Probably the only way to have done that would have been to buy bmi at any price. Aviation experts like me believe that Virgin did not have the money to do that at any time, possibly because of a hostile view by SQ as the very large minority shareholder. But the battle was lost then.
What is left of bmi is just a tiny part of its former self. The competitive routes are all included in the concessions extracted by the EU. Basically they are EDI, ABZ, CAI, MOW and RUH. Currently they are all loss making. I do not have access to bmi’s accounts but it would not surprise me if these routes together did not lose at least £50 million per year. bmi has no competitive advantage on any of them. BA flies roughly twice as many daily flights on EDI and ABZ as bmi did. This alone means that effective competition on anything other than price is impossible. Aviation experts believe that around 60% 0f BA traffic on EDI is self-interlining. So that traffic is not open to competition. ABZ is probably 40% self-interlining. A large part of bmi’s traffic on both routes was interlining with other airlines at LHR was thus very low yielding.
MOW and CAI will be loss making for any conventional airline. Just look at the CAA’s traffic figures and work out the load factors.
So, Sir Richard, if you get all the slots my guess is that you will have to pay £50 million plus for them. You will then fine annual losses of around £50 million for the three years that you must operate all those routes and you will have one-off reorganisation costs of perhaps £100 million. How anyone can meet the criteria of the EU’s requirements which include an independently evaluated business plan currently escape me.
Good luck. Have SQ agreed to share these losses?
One other thing, since Virgin have started several other airlines have done a fine job in creating a real success in competition. All in strong contrast to Virgin. Ryanair is one. It is now the largest international passenger carrying airline in the world. It has the largest market capitalisation of any airline in the EU, it has the best on-time record of any European airline, it is the biggest passenger carrying airline in the EU, it has more than 300 aircraft, it is the biggest intra-Spain airline, it totally dominates Irish Sea routes (except LHR). It never whinges about lack of competitive opportunities. Neither does EZY which started more than 10 years after Virgin. Wizz is bigger than Virgin, and so is Norwegian. Neither of them whinges about competition either.
The real problem, Sir Richard is that you only want to expand at LHR. The problem there is that it is not big enough for anyone. So what you ought to be doing is campaign for its expansion.

ETOPS
18th Apr 2012, 07:57
Well done chipsbrand

I do hope you have actually mailed this to Sir Richard?

Narrow Runway
18th Apr 2012, 11:05
Chips,

I have worked at both Virgin and Wizz.

I can tell you truthfully, that Wizz is nowhere near the size of Virgin. Not in terms of revenue or staff numbers.

They do carry more passengers and waste far less money, but they are a smaller entity in terms of real numbers i.e. Money in/out.

Broadly speaking, the 2 airlines have the same number of airframes but use them on totally different routes and markets.

It is a case of Apples and Pears. Not entirely similar.

As for the rest of what you say. I agree. Virgin are f?cked long term and hampered short term by a difficult share ownership split.

PAXboy
18th Apr 2012, 12:08
In your memo, I think that you have overlooked that Michael Bishop (as then was) had an implacable view about selling to Virgin Atlantic. There was public evidence of many approaches and, all that I saw, was Bishop saying No, No, No.

Please also consider the current recession which, since the crash of 2007, is the deepest recession since the 1930s. It has changed everything.

WHBM
18th Apr 2012, 12:55
UK trunk routes out of London seem able to sustain two competing carriers, which has basically been BA and one other.

Back in the 1970s it was British Caledonian, even though you had to go down to Gatwick for them. Then BMA rose, and B Cal fell, to be merged into BA.

More recently Easyjet came along and powered to be BA's main competitor. They now are No 1 for point-to-point, as opposed to connecting traffic. Just like in the latter B Cal days there really isn't room for a third. In fact if you look at competitive city pairs worldwide, it is very unusual for three carriers to remain balanced long term, in most cases one gets squeezed out.

As here.

chipsbrand
18th Apr 2012, 14:45
PAXboy, yes I am well aware that SMB did not want to sell to Virgin. It has been my sustained view that even had such a sale been possible that the cultural differences between the two companies would have made integration both difficult and expensive. BUT if the interests of UK Ltd had been paramount (which they weren't) then those two companies should have merged. It is one of those great corporate may have beens. But in the absence of that merger Virgin has to deal with reality. That reality is that bmi was stripped by LH for such assets that LH and its associates could usefully use. What remains is waht IAG are buying. That remnant is sadly a shadow of bmi at its biggest and best. Virgin cannot recreate those days of several years ago and then try and get its share of those assets. But I do believe that the fundamental problem that SRB is addressing is that of lack of capacity at LHR. The government would love him to expand by using STN but there is not one LHR carrier that is interested in that. (see today's Telegraph).

IB4138
18th Apr 2012, 16:15
I wonder if Sir Richard now regrets canning Virgin Sun, so quickly ten years ago, instead of perceiving and turning it into a loco that could have gone shoulder to shoulder with Easy, Jet2 and Ryanair.

Skipness One Echo
18th Apr 2012, 16:48
Before that they had their own in house LHR-ATH on G-OUZO an A320 taken on when franchise holder South East European Airways went bust, was replaced by an A321. They walked away, mind you this was the days of Belgium's Virgin Express at LHR too.

WHBM
18th Apr 2012, 17:18
There have been a considerable number of Virgin airline brands over the years, there was a 146 operation at London City as well, and even a Viscount out of Gatwick - the majority of them have turned out to be failures, apart from VA and the Australian operation.

This is actually true of the Virgin brand overall, much of which is just franchised out to whoever will pay the fee, with SRB turning up at the launch to wish them well - for which I understand he charges a substantial additional fee. There have been a wide range of retail stores which have come and gone.

PAXboy
18th Apr 2012, 17:19
Yes, chipsbrand, I think that is right in most cases and all of us in this forum know the total abscence of cohesive govt policy. All there has been is meddling.

I agree that the merger was sensible and that the culture clash would have been terrible but something might have emerged. In my view, LH bought at the wrong time and allowed the 'put' option not remembering the next recession that was always going to happen. The asset strip they did was their only option for the mistakes made before. Then, IAG were always going to be allowed to buy it. Once again they were allowed off the hook, with a handful of pairs given up. It's all been wonderfully cosy.

However, I think the statements being made now by VS/SRB are known to belong to the stable door but are relevant due to the ongoing LHR problem - which will have to sorted - one day!

Skipness One Echo
18th Apr 2012, 23:29
there was a 146 operation at London City
They're still going, it was CityJet, Virgin branded in 1994 for a few years on LCY-DUB and others. The franchise was not renewed and they got into bed with Air France.

EI-BUD
19th Apr 2012, 07:00
Aviation experts believe that around 60% 0f BA traffic on EDI is
self-interlining. So that traffic is not open to competition. ABZ is probably
40% self-interlining. A large part of bmi’s traffic on both routes was
interlining with other airlines at LHR was thus very low yielding.


Hi Chipsbrand, you post made for good reading, well done. The above point for me is the crux of the story, bmi's interlining business was largely low yield and the point to point traffic was/is highly challenged by the low cost airlines, to the other London airports.

I recall in 1989 when bmi 1st came to Dublin and at the time they were already doing 8 a day on BFS LHR, the airline had a superb reputation, customers choosing them over BA and EI at the respective airport, and they were different and better at that time.

The failing of the company was the lack of a credible strategy, what was it, what had it become, it was no longer the domestic airline, it wasnt significant in terms of range of EU destinations and the longer flights out of LHR were a real mis mash so not only did it not know internally what it was, the customer didnt know either.Trying to be all things to all people. And you point about Virgin;



The real problem, Sir Richard is that you only want to expand at LHR


this is probably just as fitting to bmi as it is to Virgin. Bmi and bmibaby were slow to act, and airlines like easyjet and Ryanair came along and made it big across the map, bmi's management were slow to react and in my view there was no big picture thinking. Again no strategy. bmibaby is a very sad inditement of the way things went, given Bmi's history and experience there is no reason why they could not have been at the forefront and expanded in the way that say easyjet did.

As for Virgin, in my view again it like bmi has faded as a brand, they are too reliant on LHR. What Virgin brands have really stood the test of time? Virgin Megastore is gone, Virgin Express is gone, Virgin mobile and Virgin money live on. I'm not convinced it is a major outfit for the future, should a low cost (I know they have a poor track record) long haul airline appearred (even if it was losing money) and aimed at VS routes, how long would Virgin be able to survive???

EI-BUD

EI-BUD

paully
19th Apr 2012, 07:39
Dont forget Branson didnt do himself any favours when he blew the whistle on the `fuel fixing` scandal, which cost BA millions whilst Virgin oiled their way out of it. This is payback time and I should think BA are loving every minute of it.

le grand fromage
19th Apr 2012, 07:58
What those of you who think SMB turned down SRB are not aware of is that no meaningful offer was ever made to buy BD nor was the proposed split of shareholdings in a possible merger ever close to being sorted out (bear in mind that there were five shareholders involved, SMB, LH,SAS,SQ and VS). SMB coulld not have agreed a deal with VS even if he'd wanted to as LH had veto rights about sale of shares and mergers at all times after the 1999 deal was signed. Similarly, LH was able to block all major investment decisions like acquisition of aircraft and changes of strategy. That was the price of getting LH to commit to a firm price for the shareholding 10 years ahead of when it would happen.

The SSK
19th Apr 2012, 12:19
'I’m not one of his admirers. I don’t see him as someone who deserves my admiration'

A flying feud: BA boss Willie Walsh goes to war with Richard Branson - Travel News, Travel - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/travel/travel-news/a-flying-feud-ba-boss-willie-walsh-goes-to-war-with-richard-branson-3085702.html)

Fairdealfrank
19th Apr 2012, 17:13
Quote: "Dont forget Branson didnt do himself any favours when he blew the whistle on the `fuel fixing` scandal, which cost BA millions whilst Virgin oiled their way out of it. This is payback time and I should think BA are loving every minute of it."

Isn't that the case!

They say what goes around, comes around.....karma?

PAXboy
19th Apr 2012, 20:05
Well, let's look at it this way:


In the early 1990s, BA stuffed Branson and he caught them out, getting full redress in court and a lesson to the world.
More recently, when SRB discovered that his own staff had committed gross errors, with their competitor, and exposed the airline to legal action - he owned up and proved to all remaining staff that they should do business the decent way.
BA were exposed for wrong doing a SECOND time and if (IF) they are 'loving' the current turn of affairs - who has done the wrong thing twice and who has done it once and owned up?

Contrast the actions of SRB with Murdochs (Snr & Jnr) of News International who spent months (years?) denying any wrong doing until the point when they are going to get dragged through the courts. Yet they STILL will not admit what they actually knew.

Also, don't forget that SRB (RB as was) had to take GTech to court in 1998 for attempted bribery and won.

I have never worked for the airline (or ANY one in this field) but I am a satisfied VS customer of 25 years and it is sad to hear people criticising a man for trying to do the right thing - as we Brits are taught.

I have no doubt that he has made mistakes and been fully in the cut and thrust of business - but IAG/BA/WW are still playing the silly insults game that boxers do (quoted by The SSK). Time for WW to grow up. Better to say nothing than to insult your competitor. I can only repeat, BA has a great product due to the FC and CC, if only their mgmt would resign and leave them to it.