what is it like to be a corporate pilot

[Wildduke]

Hi!

I'm a turboprop pilot working for a small regional airline and am interested in going the corporate aviation route. Having worked for an large international airline in a past life as cabin crew, I completely understand the rostering and lifestyle of an airline pilot.

Are there any good reads out there on what's life as a corporate pilot is like? Airline guys talk about negatives such as being on call 24 hrs a day and not getting a roster. Also lots of job insecurity. Any downturn in the market and you are the first to loose your job. Also ben told that airlines prefer not to hire corporate pilots, so if i go down this route its a dead end. Im not an idiot. I'm sure that some of this is uninformed hearsay and fear mongering, but is there truth in any of this? I've been told that as a corporate pilot family life is impossible and it's a 'single mans game'.

Is it difficult to maintain a career as a corporate jet pilot?

I would seriously like an honest balanced opinion on this career path. The thing that attracts me is the possibility to fly new clean, well maintained aircraft. Travel to exotic destinations, not just capital cities or regional hubs. Not being on a super tight schedule doing multiple repetitive sectors. I don't care for staff travel benefits, I'd rather more cash. Also I'd love to get away from the hoards of whinging whining pilots that can't be satisfied with anything. Id imagine since there are fewer numbers of pilots in a corporate organization there would be fewer bitter twisted and just unsatisfied people to have to work with. I'm not hour building and am never bored when I'm not working do I won't be complaining about not flying enough. I'm happy to get may salary regardless of whether I fly 60 hrs a month or 110hrs.

Thanks! If you don't feel comfortable posting on an open forum then please send me a private message and we can communicate Ono on one. Many many thanks!:D

[His dudeness]

Your post sums it up, essentially. But then there are not 2 similar operations in this field.

I like the place where I work these days a lot, BUT we go to more exotic destinations without any glamour than I thought (like Kinshasa in Congo, or Aktau in Kazakhstan etcetc. This differs with the operations of course, our airplane has never been on a leisure trip (owned by a stock company, not an individual). Others do have the best imaginable destinations regurarly...

Also, bear in mind that with a change in management, a lot in the organization can change, from being closed to being pumped up, everything is possible. (My example there is the Mercedes-Benz FD, which consisted for a long time of 2 Falcon 20s, then was closed almost over night and a contract was made with a very dubious operator and after - I think - 4 years they reopened in real style with aircraft up to an A320 and closed a few years later again - the whole thing then was sold and is now DC Aviation.) I do know some of the old pilots that never ever thought they would NOT make it into pension there....

But then, how stable is a career in the airlines these days when you are not with DLH or BA...?

[inner]

Hi wildduke

I give you my experience. In my company we do have a roster however it is just a paper thing. They have the tendency to change it last minute. (there goes your plan to do something on your off day). It is a fact that u fly all kind of destinations, the good ones and the bad ones (lagos,....). What i personally dislike of corporate is the lack of stability. I'm more a person to fly frequently. I prefer to know in advance my roster and to where i fly to, with who and what time i'll be finished. In GA you dont know anything of that. There are times i fly zero and times where i fly 70h a month. It dont think this is a good way to maintain your flying skills. Most, but not all, GA companies dont really care about sop's (it is outthere but thats it). Another thing, very important thing, is marketvalue. Unless you are flying with a challenger 604 or a G 5, your marketvalue is zero. You have more chance to find a job with a boeing or airbus rating than, lets say, with a lear 60 rating. Nowadays if you want to change job, it is all about typerating. If you don't have the proper typerating, you simply dont get in especially in GA. Another typical thing, however depending again on the company, they require or harass you doing other jobs as well. Like updating jeps, office work, ops etc. All waisted time, because these are waisted times you should normally be flying. I would stay where you are and try fly to big toys. Thats the way i feel it. Good luck!!

[redsnail]

There are many different styles of "corporate flying".
There's the pure private operations to the airline-esque style.
I haven't done private ops so I can't comment on them.

I work for a large operator in Europe. It beats airline flying down pat.
I get a roster and it's published 2 months in advance. It's reasonably fixed at 6 on 5 off. There is some flex if you give enough notice.
Within the 6 days on, you'll comply with EASA FTLs and you can do any thing from 1 to 5 flights in a day. (Fleet and demand dependant)

Salary is comparable to a UK lo-co airline.
My theatre of operation is Europe, Middle East, North Africa and Russia. Occasional forays to Iceland etc. No two days are the same.

What you will be doing that airline pilots don't often do is clean the cabin, toilet servicing (or at least instructing the honey cart operators how it's done), sorting the catering and loading the luggage. It's a lot more "hands on". You'll also be meeting and greeting the owners and you'll have a lot more contact with them. Customer service is paramount. You may be ace of the base but if you annoy the owner, at best you'll have to explain, at worst, you'll be "seeking new ventures".
I enjoy my job.

Breaking bad news is a skill. Eg. "Flight's off, we can't get into XXX due weather" versus "I've checked the weather at XXX, we have a few options. We can go now but we'll probably divert to YYY. I've spoken to the FBO, there are transport solutions there. Or we can delay 2 hours and the weather should improve"

As to the future post GA flying? It depends. If you're flying a Premier for Mr Shonky, then your options are limited. Fly something "bigger" and/or for a decent operator I think your options are ok. Yes, GA biz jets did have a bit of a reputation for being less than squeaky clean but with simulators being used more often and more (former) GA pilots now in airlines, "our" reputation is improving.

[Wildduke]

Thanks for your comments.

Is there a preference working for a private owner vs. a corporate owner or managing company like execujets or NasJet in Saudi?

Right now, its almost at a point in the industry that if I wanted to fly airline jets, I'm gunna have to pay for a type rating on an a320/ b737. So if I have to pay for a hawker or citation or gulfstream endo, it's not much different. Right now with the cadet programs worldwide on the rise there are a billion a320 or b737 rated pilots all scrounging over the same jobs. Im just thinking about an alternative career path as lifestyle is my goal over flying wide body aircraft or working for a legacy airline.

I don't mind helping to get the cabin ready, or submitting my own flight plans or ordering fuel myself. It no big deal really. I would rather that than doing 8 sectors a day shuttling between point a and point b.

[mutt]

gulfstream endo, it's not much different Have you looked at the cost of a Gulfstream rating? Not to mention the recurrent? It will cost you about $80,000 in the first year :):):):) Then you have a problem with a lack of hours on type, look at advertisements for pilots, very few of them ask for less than 500 hours on type.

Good Luck.

Mutt

[Wildduke]

No I haven't looked at corporate aircraft endorsement prices. Wow! Didn't realize that! 80k for an endo!

Also I know what you are saying about pilots doing extra stuff, I was just being civil to the people who replied to me earlier. I'm not starting this thread to begin that debate. I'd just like to know a little more about the corporate sector as I haven't heard anything from corporate pilots. I would like to hear it all, good and bad and I'll piece it together and make up my mind.

Do you have an experience you'd like to share with me?

[mutt]

The corporate world is unique, we don't do the same tasks as Redsnail because we have crew or ground staff to do most of the tasks such as catering, baggage, fueling.

So you will find a huge difference between corporate fractional operators, commercial operators, private operators and others.

The fun part is not knowing where you next destination is going to be, the sad part is not knowing when you are going to that destination ....

[Denti]

The fun part is not knowing where you next destination is going to be, the sad part is not knowing when you are going to that destination ....


And in the airline world i won't know those things at all, nor when my next scheduled off days will be, where my luggage will end up since its been taken from the plane during one of the five stops during the day but that is fine since i won't know where i gonna sleep at night anyway nor when i return home if i'm scheduled to be out of station at least past sunday. Oh, and i probably won't have seen at least half the cabin crew rotated through my crew since we change crews each sector (both cabin and flightdeck, but at least i gonna see the chap next to me).

[CPTG747]

I am retired 747 capt as of 2011, but flew corporate for years.
pros and cons about it as I feel!
1) first toy to go is the Lear jet
2) clean from belly to top, then clean again
3) Make sure the peanuts are fresh, and potty clean, and tell the boss about the wx although they want you to go anyway in most cases.
4) Boss will be at airport in 2 hours, no sorry make that 3 hours, but just wait around, have some more coffee and peanuts, and watch lots of tv at the local FBO your leaving from.
5) Boss the engine is running hot, well get it fixed next year, just add it to the MEL, cause we don't need one we are 91 not 135 operator.

NOW all kidding aside, I flew many years, corporate for this reason only, to build time, in pistons, turbo props, and small Lears to get into the Airlines.

I did enjoy the Corporate Aspen, get aways, my credit card spending limits when out, and not to bad of pay, but was young, single, then married, and if you have children you really want a better time frame than most corporate flights.

We had 2 lears and a MU-2 in my last Corporate venture, but that was back in the 70's and early 80's.
I am sure the newer corporate pilots flying the G-v and EFIS and larger ships probally have much better than we did back then, plus better pay and benefits.

Still 121 to me is the only way to fly till retire. I was 28 years with same company NWAL flew international jumbos last 7 years, and other than sitting long hours, always knew where I was going, when, and did not ever have to worry about the peanuts, or cleaning the ship.

the pay is top. But many good corporate operators and jobs out there now. Just keep in mind, when times get tough the jet leaves.
I KNOW!
Good luck in your venture, and happy flying.

[CPTG747]

fellow pilots, to me buying a TYPE is like buying sex, just don't see the need in it. I never flew for free, paid to fly, or paid for a rating.
You gain merit on your own accord, you sell yourself your skills, and wait the pressure and time........
Even if you buy a G rating or whatever, you only have a check out time, few hours, and most any operator will require around 500 in type or so.
This is just my thoughts. I took my ATP in the company plane, they paid for it, and the FAA GADO loved to ride in it, said WOW nice plane, big......lol
Think with clear head, build wise time, hang around airports, pilots, mingle with the chief pilots, get to know whos who, and whats what, but know you are you, the best, and make them pay, this buying ratings is CRAZY!
Just my thoughts ok. But I am retired older, and been there done that already.... but never ever bought time, or types, and retired from the 747's.......

[His dudeness]

I am doing corperate for 5 years now and was doing air taxi for 17 years.

At our homebase there are 8 co-orperate flight departments, and every single one is diferent from the other. Vastly different. There is one where you fly like 150hrs/year but they expect you to be at the airfield office 5 days a week. Others fly 600hrs a year. We do like 300-350hrs/year and we do all flight planning, maintenance planning/scheduling, training arrangements, cleaning, catering etcetc. ourselves.

I love the job for its diversity, but we are only 2 guys with a MP Airplane, so if one of us is sick, no flying. We have to take the major junks of holiday leave in defined time frames. That is the downside. We do not have a real fixed roster but we never had a flight 'booked' later than a week before. I´m allowed to do some freelancing also.

[ap10046]

But what happens when every company/operator you approach will not even look at your CV because you're not typed in something they have...and they are just too cheap to type you or want a "ready" pilot.
I have been unable to get back "in the front end" for over a year and a half because I don't want to pay for a TR, but know of at least 5 who got in because they agreed to pay/offset their TR's? Have been working, renting earth moving equipment, because that's all I can find...and it is a very poor compromise.

[aditya104]

fellow pilots, to me buying a TYPE is like buying sex, just don't see the need in it. I never flew for free, paid to fly, or paid for a rating.
You gain merit on your own accord, you sell yourself your skills, and wait the pressure and time........
Even if you buy a G rating or whatever, you only have a check out time, few hours, and most any operator will require around 500 in type or so.
This is just my thoughts. I took my ATP in the company plane, they paid for it, and the FAA GADO loved to ride in it, said WOW nice plane, big......lol
Think with clear head, build wise time, hang around airports, pilots, mingle with the chief pilots, get to know whos who, and whats what, but know you are you, the best, and make them pay, this buying ratings is CRAZY!
Just my thoughts ok. But I am retired older, and been there done that already.... but never ever bought time, or types, and retired from the 747's.......


Thank you, sir! That was the best advice anyone could ever get here IMO. Was worth all the time wasted on pprune winnowing the signal from the noise. :D

[jetopa]

Wildduke,

you say that you live 'somewhere civilized'...

Well - good for you then. Because you're in a much better position than some of us.

You've read some of the posts above and there isn't much to be added.

His dudeness did mention a renowned flight department of a highly respected company (that everybody would have sold her/his grandmother for to get a job with) that got suddenly closed and reopened and then eventually sold to an investor. Rumor is, that not everybody is happy about this. No surprise here.

There are some flight departments which suffered a similar fate of at least were close to that. My point is: the CEO (or CFO) of any given company can get rid of his airplanes within a blink of an eye and with a single signature. Has happened before and it will in the future.

Then there are the rather exotic places that Mutt can tell you about. Working there ain't a dance on roses every day either.

There is a saying in a certain European country that 'your neighbor's grass always tends to be greener than your own'.

I even hear LH-guys worrying about their future (but I'm not sure how serious I should take them).

On the one hand there are the absolute cheap buggers, not respecting duty regulations, taking away off days, you'll never see a SIM once you've done your Initial Course, no write-ups in the tech logs (what's an MEL anyway?), make you proceed from duty with cheap airlines in Economy, making you stay in ****ty hotels and asking you to virtually fly for food.

Then there are real decent companies which follow (most of the) rules, which send you to recurrent training twice a year, provide you with okay hotels and C-class rides on long-haul proceedings and pay adequately.

(I cannot overemphasize this:) Do not pay for any type rating!

A decent employer who really is interested in you will take care of that. They might bond you, which is only fair.

Good luck!

[Cecco]

I fly a C525 for a private owner and do, besides the flying, everything around the aircraft, such as FMS updates, flight planning, organising catering, arranging mx etc. I find that these extra tasks make the job more enjoyable.
If you only want to sit in the airplane and fly, you have to join the airlines!
Rosterwise it´s 4 on, 3 off (almost always the weekend plus monday or friday; depends on the flights planned).

[deefer dog]

As others have pointed out, no two corporate jobs are the same. I fly for a private owner who is does not need to charter his aircraft to subsidise the costs of owning it. Many owners need to offset the costs of ownership, and some will enevitably apply pressure on their crews to cut corners.

Whatever the owner though, in corporate ops your job is very similar to that of a limo driver. The plane must be clean, tidy, stocked with whatever he might want, and ready to go where he wants, and when he wants. That's why he bought it. To do well in corporate aviation has less to do with your personal flying abilities and more to do with the service you provide, and how you interact with the owners or pax.

Red snail is absolutely correct. There are ways of telling an owner that he can't land today at Samedan. The guys who do well in this job know how to tell it - but more importantly they have no difficulty in making the decision to say so!