I see on the beeb that there is a collective push from the UK's GP's for the guvermint to take steps to cure the nations obesity problems.
One of the steps mentioned is a tax on fatty foods but I doubt the UK would be interested in anymore taxes.
What do you all think?

The gummint are in favour of as many more taxes as they can manage to impose - as are all gummints.

No taxation without respiration. :rolleyes:

No taxation without respiration.
Shirley you mean No respiration without taxation .;)

If the buggers could tax air they would!:}

Make them eat outside in specially designated eating areas for fat folks so we slim folks don't have to suffer passive obesity.:rolleyes:

Withdraw benefits until they reach normal weight.

Taxing cigarettes and alcohol highly seems to have made little difference to the problems they have brought, so I see no reason to assume that taxing unhealthy foods would help. The answer is either banning fatty foods, which is inappopriate and unworkable, or educating people.

Looking at the state of many people in not just the UK but most of Western Europe, it's clear that obesity is a 'huge' problem and I think the only problem is to let nature take its course and we will see 'survival of the fittest' rather than the fattest.

Trouble is the cost of dealing with all the ailments and associated benefits to the obese will financially cripple the country.

To me its less about eating and more about the level of activity.

I'm unfortunate enough to have a sedentary office job and I have to put in a huge amount of effort at evenings and weekends to keep active enough to be fit and to compensate for the fact that I don't burn many calories during the day.

I've got quite a few friends who work in very physical outdoor jobs. They don't have to worry much about what they eat in pure terms of their weight.

When you consider the recommended calorie intake it isn't much actual food in real terms, so you have got to work off the rest somehow.

So perhaps I'd rather my taxes were spent on encouraging people to be more active.

Having entrance doors, of a maximum width, that would prevent fatties from entering fast garbage outlets, such as McDogfood's and other purveyors of crap, would be a good start. Or even better, going high tech, a height /weight measurement system at the entrance.

Taking it a step further, have size restricted entry to junk food/drink areas in supermarkets ........:E

In a correctly functioning world, all systems could could be financed by a tax on junk food and drink.

Tax or education

Neither.

I think the problem can be solved at supply chain level in a simpler and cheaper manner.

We need to accept that people either can't cook, can't be bothered to cook or consider themselves too busy to cook. No amount of TV chefs or other educational material is going to change that.

Taxing won't help either. As has been demonstrated by tobacco and alcohol. Those who want the convenience of fast food will no doubt happily pay the minor premium.

Therefore the purveyors of "fast food" therefore should be mandated (yes, by legislative means if need be) to provide sustainable, healthy meals that you can bung in the microwave or pick-up from the high-street outlet of your choice.

The over-engineered processed foods containing E numbers, stabilisers, "flavour enhancers" and all sorts of weird and wonderful things such as "condensed butter", dextrose, corn syrup etc.

In todays supply chain, there is no need for preservatives. You can dry items, package them in tins, or you can blast freeze them and then either display them in the freezer section or in their defrosted form in the chillers (all the supermarkets these days have logistics companies delivering on lorries that can keep things frozen, and they've got chillers out the back of the supermarket that they could use to defrost products as and when their IT systems show the shelves are getting low of a particular item).

Take brad for example. Flour, Water, Yeast and Salt. Plus any seeds or other flavours you want to put in there, or olive oil for italian style loaves. Cheap as chips to make, responds well to economies of scale. Yet the supermarkets and high-street outlets continue to sell the disgusting stuff that sticks to the roof of your mouth.

Same goes for, say, shop bought lasagne. Pasta sheets (flour, oil, egg), béchamel (butter, flour, milk) and what is basically a bolognese sauce (mince, tomato, mirepoix and bouquet garni). Yet the ingredients list on the supermarket packets are as long as your arm.

The State should withdraw from the arena.

You want to eat shite and get fat and then unwell? OK, it is a free country. However, your choice so your problem. No NHS, no therapists and no benefits. Unless you pay for it all yourself.

The Nation is drugged on dependency which is actively encouraged by our useless politicians because it gives them control.

Time to shrink the state and for people to live with their own decisions, whether that be eating, drinking, smoking or breeding. Eventually, nature will provide the solution.

Having entrance doors, of a maximum width, that would prevent fatties from entering fast garbage outlets, such as McDogfood's and other purveyors of crap,

Two words.

Wheelchair Access

Or even better, going high tech, a height /weight measurement system at the entrance.

Ah, the good old "Body Mass Index" ploy. That's the one that says Johnny Wilkinson is clinically obese. Explain how perfectly healthy and NOT obese people would be able to get into <wherever> then.

Taking it a step further, have size restricted entry to junk food/drink areas in supermarkets ........

Then "size" restriction should also apply to those who are not overweight so they are only allowed to the veggies, tofu and rice crackers so there's no chance of them getting fat by daring to eat a burger. :p


In other words, your ideas are nonsense.


The REAL issue lies deeper, with exercise of any kind effectively being banned at schools (you know, the sales of playing fields, the loony left ideas of having no competition as the fat kids feel bad because they lose, elf'n'safety rules being applied with so much zeal that nothing can be done in case little Johnny falls and bumps his knee, etc), the costs, etc, of leisure facilities where kids could burn off some calories, and, of course, the dreaded words "parental responsibility" where parents refuse to feed kids properly (do you realise how many inner city kids have never seen a carrot?) and don't allow them to go out and exercise for various reasons. Add in the Grumpy OB's who complain like hell about kids daring to play within half a mile of their house and the irrational fear about there being a paedo on every street corner, and you can see why there has been more than one generation who has been getting fatter and that rubs off on their kids too so the cycle continues.

Breaking that cycle is the issue, and that is the problem because nobody wants to actually address it as it will show some serious shortfalls in themselves, and that is from parents to Government.

Deny health care (a) or benefits (b) to anyone above a certain Body Mass Index figure.

a, If they cannot be bothered to look after their own health, why should the taxpayer foot the bill.
b, Anyone that fat has too much money to spend on food.

I read that firemen are now being trained to drive forklift trucks so they can move the blobs around when they get into difficulties.

It's a master stroke.

Just think of the revenue to be collected at the door of every Jockanese chippy with all them deep fried Mars bars.

And it would rob Alex Salmond of his independence kitty.

Deny health care (a) or benefits (b) to anyone above a certain Body Mass Index figure.

a, If they cannot be bothered to look after their own health, why should the taxpayer foot the bill.
b, Anyone that fat has too much money to spend on food.

And see my point about BMI and people like Johnny Wilkinson. Going to deny him health care because he's too fit and, because of how BMI is calculated, would be classed as "clinically obese"?

Mixture,
A proper Bolognaise sauce contains butter, onions, celery, carrot, some garlic, chicken livers, bacon, dry martini, beef stock, tomato puree, grated nutmeg and some cream: it is not the usual tomato flavoured mince that seems to be called Bolognaise over here.

It also needs to cook for an hour.

If you say to overweight people that they can't have healthcare, do they get the money back that they have paid in taxes and National Insurance - which is supposed to cover their care?

radeng,

I'll take your word for it. I tend not to have access to my cookbook collection when posting on PPRuNe during a lunch break ! :E

Hi Folks
I was trying to be a bit ironic in my OP.
If it's a case of taxes or education I think we all know what our present masters will go for.
The reasons people are increasing in size are well known as is the cure, it's getting people in this day and age to accept the cure is the problem but that still will not prevent taxation under the present regime.

BMI is a joke.

According to that I am near obesity as I'm 5' 8" and flight plan for 190lbs but nobody who knows me would consider me fat. I'm no Johnny Wilson either.

The concept of a "fat tax" or at least a tax on fatty or high sugar foods is not knew. We discussed is as part of a scheme to "green" our city as architecture students. I think the Swiss may have even had a referendum on it.

As long as the state provides the health service, then it has an interest in getting people to eat healthy - but this will be done with the usual shoving, holier than though and bungs to get people on NHS schemes that we have grown used to.

And as has already been pointed out - pun intended - it is a growing problem which won't go away by doing nothing.

I am actually subject to regular monitoring as part of a a totally different health problem, and have put on around 20kgs over the last four years for a combination of reasons, including lack of activity and poor diet, but also relating to my condition and the medication taken for it.

At no stage has any NHS professional said to me "Mr J, you are too fat". All they have done is taken a measurement and noted it down as another stat the government collects and does nothing with. It is the opposite to their obsession with ethnicity, which has no clinical relevance except when making historical comparisons for some chronic diseases (e.g. diabetes) - take it once and move on!

There is far too much p.c. speak which doesn't allow people to state the obvious - you are over your ideal weight, do something about it!

Thankfully, mainly due to exercising more, I am almost 10kgs lighter than I was at the start of the year.

I have no problem with, let's say VAT on fatty foods, but I know it will open up a minefield of definitions. What about high sugar, high GI foods? Well that takes out the energy drinks you need for prolonged exercise - especially as I love cycling and you can be out all day. Yet in the last budget, all the attention went to pasties (high calorie for obvious historical reasons), and the VAT change on sports drinks generated little discussion. Surely this was sending out the wrong message - if this is to be kept revenue neutral, the VAT needs to come of sports drinks and even equipment. Why mess around with a highly complex VAT rebate scheme for employers when you could just take the VAT off all bikes & related equipment?

Anyway there's a few points to keep things moving - hopefull this thread will be no couch potato! Now back to my cycling rant!

There is far too much p.c. speak which doesn't allow people to state the obvious - you are over your ideal weight, do something about it!Agreed.

The problem with fat taxes is how to administer them. They talked about it here and the following day the cheese industry turned up at Parliament House with banners and flaming torches, because cheese is a high fat product. It's also a good source of calcium, a traditional food and manufactured by a vocal and popular lobby group (local primary producers are always difficult to beat on moral issues), which was even more important to the government than tradition and calcium. :hmm:

If you tax high sugar products you raise the ire of the sugar industry, which here anyway is even bigger, nastier and better at PR than the cheese guys. Nor IIRC is there a lot of hard evidence to say that moderate consuption of sugar is bad for you.

These are perfectly legal products that don't cause obesity in themselves. Rampant overconsumption causes obesity, and that's the problem that needs to be addressed. How? Lord knows, but I don't believe taxation is the effective answer. People still buy too much alcohol and they still buy cigarettes despite the taxes.

An extra twenty cents on a Big Mac isn't going to pursuade someone not to eat five of them if they have the compulsion to, and is unfair on the person who enjoys one burger meal a week while still eating all their vegetables and running up and down mountains in between.

Shamelessly stolen from the jokes page, and so true



http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s320x320/552812_10150627644267811_524682810_9499104_1635550044_n.jpg

It isn't fatty foods that is the main problem, it is the enormous fructose intake in soft drinks, specifically those sweetened with High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS).

Fructose escapes the normal glycaemic pathway and is the major culprit in the obesity/diabetes epidemic.

A tax on fructose content (for the manufacturers) would be more effective and make more sense.

Mac (GF is academic dietician)

:=

Fair enough. However, if you have one a month (which is about my average intake, usually lemonade) or even one a week, is there an issue?

It's easy enough to solve in a pragmatic fashion.
There is an ideal weight range for every size and sex of person.
Every person requires a death certificate.
Compulsory corpse weighing should be a requirement for the issuance of a death certificate.
If the corpse is found to be outside the recommended weight envelope by a predetermined percentage, then the first tranche of that person's estate is levied to the government on a £/kg basis. This would be a penalty in addition to any death duties payable. In the event of there being no estate then the next of kin, in descending order from spouse on down, becomes liable for the charge. Benefits could be stopped at source and council houses reclaimed for skinny swarthy immigrants.
Such a scheme would raise revenue while at the same time encouraging social and familial weight watching. I think it should be commended to the Liberal Democrats.

A proper Bolognaise sauce contains butter, onions, celery, carrot, some garlic, chicken livers, bacon, dry martini, beef stock, tomato puree, grated nutmeg and some cream: it is not the usual tomato flavoured mince that seems to be called Bolognaise over here.

Never had the recipe with chicken liver: is that added to veal or beef mince? I always substitute 1/2 of the bacon (which ideally should be from the belly, i.e. pancetta) with mortadella.

Depends a bit what part of Wogland your nonna comes from, I guess. Our family recipe did not originally contain garlic.

Oops, before the PC Gestapo swoop: wog is a term of endearment in Australia for (originally) Italians, now extended to include really anyone from south of the Alps, particularly if they wear shiny track suit pants and a gold necklace, plus drive with the driver's window open (what happened to A/C) and try to support the roof with their hand out of the window :ok: I can only recommend the Wogboy movie (less so its sequel).

It's from the Sainsbury's book of Italian recipes. But endorsed by a friend from Milan.

For me 'junk food' is stuff that I've cooked and had a surplus of, and then froze. The only 'made' meat products I have are venison burgers, which are lower in cholesterol and very low in fat. I also use only olive and rape seed oils, and bake my own granary bread - a 400 gram loaf has 15grams of sugar, 15 grams of butter and 1.5 grams of salt.

Not being overweight when on steroids and insulin is almost impossible, although I have lost a bit recently.....less flying to meetings (and thus meals) abroad.

"Fair enough. However, if you have one a month (which is about my average intake, usually lemonade) or even one a week, is there an issue?"

No, its just fattening, not poisonous.

Mac

:E

Depends a bit what part of Wogland your nonna comes from, I guess. Our family recipe did not originally contain garlic.Ooh, get my mother started on the subject. Garlic+ bolognaise = devil food. I chuck it into mine because it tastes better (along with nutmeg, wine and whatever else is lying around :E), but not if she's going to be eating it. :suspect: I'm not that brave.
No, its just fattening, not poisonous.I think this is part of the problem with government food advertising. They're trying the same technique they used with cigarettes and alcohol; One Mouthful Will Kill You. :eek: This simply isn't the case and a can of lemonade a week doesn't condemn you to a life of obesity. Maybe that's why governments should stay out of the food thing.

Down here, one of the best champions of cooking your own food has been the recent plethora of cooking shows; from what I hear around the lunchroom Masterchef, My Kitchen Rules and the like have done more towards encouraging the average person to buy basic ingredients and cook some real food with real green vegetables than twenty years worth of government health campaigns. Of course the networks only broadcast them because they're good telly, but whatever works.

If it means that the average person is going to the supermarket and buying asparagus and purple carrots to show off to their friends rather than biscuits and salami, then it's all for the good.

C'mon Worrals,

Don't you all exist on a diet of boiled mutton and damper down there - especially in Queensland?

It's easy enough to solve in a pragmatic fashion.
There is an ideal weight range for every size and sex of person.
Every person requires a death certificate.
Compulsory corpse weighing should be a requirement for the issuance of a death certificate.
If the corpse is found to be outside the recommended weight envelope by a predetermined percentage, then the first tranche of that person's estate is levied to the government on a £/kg basis. This would be a penalty in addition to any death duties payable. In the event of there being no estate then the next of kin, in descending order from spouse on down, becomes liable for the charge. Benefits could be stopped at source and council houses reclaimed for skinny swarthy immigrants.
Such a scheme would raise revenue while at the same time encouraging social and familial weight watching. I think it should be commended to the Liberal Democrats.

I do hope you are extracting the urine

radeng,

and bake my own granary bread - a 400 gram loaf has 15grams of sugar, 15 grams of butter and 1.5 grams of salt.

Why are we adding sugar to a savoury loaf sir ?

What's your raising agent and liquid , or are you baking a dry biscuit ? :E

Salt at 0.37% is also a bit low, no ? You should be running at 1.5 to 2%. You know salt is there as a control, not just taste don't you ? So cutting back just for the sake of it will adversely affect the texture and crumb of your loaf. Remember, you're not (normally !) eating the whole loaf in one sitting, so the overall loaf salt content is somewhat irrelevant to a reasonable extent.

there's 150 grams of strong white flour, 250 grams of granary flour, half a teaspoon of dried yeast and 280ml of water.

Just following the quantities in the receipt. Leave the rest to the bread making machine...

Hi radeng,

Thanks for the rest of the recipe.

Aah..... bread making machine. That would explain the sugar. Their recipes are always a bit different in order to ensure the magic of the machine works.

I'll leave you in peace. :E

Air pollution made me a Tubby Tucker (The big fat person) (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2130945/Prenatal-exposure-air-pollution-linked-childhood-obesity.html)


:ugh::ugh:

Nah!man made global warming is the culprit.:)

(I do hope you are extracting the urine).

Perhaps the skinny swarthy immigrant idea was a little far fetched? Council houses could be reclaimed for British benefits claimants within a normal range BMI, even if they have jobs. That duality of financial opportunity should enthuse Mark Serwotka with joy and happiness.

And, CC, how does someone who is fit and who participates in sports, like rugby players, fare in your grand scheme when their BMI says they are clinically obese?

You see, I keep saying the same thing because BMI is as much use as a tool to "measure obesity" as bottling a fart and saying that said gas in a bottle is the alleged cause of global warming so, since it is contained, there is no more alleged danger. There is no "ideal weight for your height" since there is no British Standard, or SI, Human and we are all different. It's meaningless and is a completely flawed way of measuring things like obesity and should be used as often as someone who is actually morbidly obese eats a salad.

There can be no distinction made between a sadomasochistic fit rugby player who drops dead having enjoyed himself head butting a ball and a gross blob who drowns to death on his third MacSlurry. All must pay their fair share no matter how they've played the game. If your corpse weighs over the state designated benchmark weight it matters not how you got there, whether its brawn or blubber. Discrimination is just not the British way. In Britain you have to be fair.

{quotes] HB

" And, CC, how does someone who is fit and who participates in sports, like rugby players, fare in your grand scheme when their BMI says they are clinically obese? "

" Ah, the good old "Body Mass Index" ploy. That's the one that says Johnny Wilkinson is clinically obese. Explain how perfectly healthy and NOT obese people would be able to get into <wherever> then. "

" Then "size" restriction should also apply to those who are not overweight so they are only allowed to the veggies, tofu and rice crackers so there's no chance of them getting fat by daring to eat a burger. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/tongue.gif

In other words, your ideas are nonsense. "

" And, CC, how does someone who is fit and who participates in sports, like rugby players, fare in your grand scheme when their BMI says they are clinically obese? "


And your arguments, too, are flawed , re BMI and also the Height /Weight ratio, because anyone who is outside those parameters who is fit, muscular, etc , are not going to be shopping in the junk food section of the markets ....or eating at McDogfoods or similar purveyors of trans fats, HFCS and other chemical filled addictions, designed for sugar highs.

But irony and humor does seem to be lost on you,...... sugar crash maybe :hmm: ?

Don't you all exist on a diet of boiled mutton and damper down there - especially in Queensland? Not any more, fortunately. :yuk:
Over the last decade or so, even quite remote areas are getting into exciting food. Cappucino machines are now almost standard, and some (not all) of the pubs are offering things like wood fired pizzas or Thai curries. Exotic salad is still hard to come by (rocket, oyster mushrooms et al don't cope well with bouncing around in a truck for 2000 km) but there's a much greater variety of food than there was. :ok: (If none of that sounds exciting, you didn't see what was on offer before :zzz::})

Naturally this doesn't help with the expanding waistline epidemic, particularly when even a lot of rural jobs are now relatively sedentary.
Too much great, tasty food everywhere and not enough exercise. :( That's the common theme.

The BMI was devised in about 1840 - the 1840 average adult was probably suffering from malnutrition by today's standards. One would have thought advnaces in medical science would have produced something a little more refined by now ....

You can get scales that measure body fat percentage. They're a bit more expensive than the standard ones but they're good, and avoid the whole bmi 'obese' rugby player problem.

You can get scales that measure body fat percentage.

Yeh we got one of them thingys - electronical. Put yer feet on
the metal footpads and hold a metal handle while a light dose
of lecky run through your bod. Gives a readout of outer fat, a
readout on visceral fat, BMI etc. Missus sticks me on it once a
week to see whether her enforced rabbit food diet is working
- and whether I've been scoffing too much pizza and beer on
me overnights.

And yeh the published BMI scale is way out - if I was down to
slightly under my ideal...Worrals would be kicking sand in my
face on the beach (and most likely deserved! :E).

As for a tax or education - you can't legislate or tax people to
stop them being arseholes whether its smoking or having one
off illicit sex without a rubber. Best to educate and let people
take responsibility instead of relying on a bloody nanny state.

..So if you're a fat overweight ugly son (or daught) of a bitch
then you'd better get used to taking the flack on the chin. If
you decide to use any modern bullshit excuses like "Oh but I
love what I am" or "my inner beauty is what counts" expect
to be laughed at and ridiculed and to only expect shag offers
from the drunkest of ugly smelly pisstanks/tankettes.

Missus sticks me on it once a week to see whether her enforced rabbit food diet is working
So you eat like a rabbit, too, Slash?

And your arguments, too, are flawed , re BMI and also the Height /Weight ratio, because anyone who is outside those parameters who is fit, muscular, etc , are not going to be shopping in the junk food section of the markets ....or eating at McDogfoods or similar purveyors of trans fats, HFCS and other chemical filled addictions, designed for sugar highs.

Wrong again, they do buy the occasional McVomits meal, they do drink soft drinks with and without sugar, they do eat supermarket ready meals, etc.

That shows how much you know about real life, and what people do, so just get back into your little bubble with Radio 4 on and let people who have some knowledge about things discuss them.

So you eat like a rabbit, too, Slash?

Heh heh only at home Hydro. I'm ok on overnights when the
rest of the crew are boring - maybe salad sandwiches with a
side of saltless fries and a beer. When they're all a menacing
horde of party freaks is when it all turns to shit - huge heaps
of beer and plonk along with pizzas and other junk food. The
missus feeds me straight rabbit food if I'm measured a kilo
or ten above optimal. But I'm ok with the booze - she has no
problem me enjoying a glass or two of le vin rouge with food
that resembles (and tastes) like the emptyings of a mower's
grasscatcher.

Worrals would be kicking sand in my face on the beach (and most likely deserved! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif).If I was at my lower minimum I probably wouldn't have the energy to do it. My grandmother was the same, even when she was skin and bones and the doctor was threatening to put her on a drip, she was still above minimum BMI. Some people weigh heavy, but are still healthy. That doesn't work as an excuse for people over 150kg, though. :hmm:

Wrong again, they do buy the occasional McVomits meal, they do drink soft drinks with and without sugar, they do eat supermarket ready meals, etc. True. Army blokes are shockers for this. Hot chips, icecream, pies... IME most of them are fast food junkies. The thing is though, if they're in the Army they have fitness activities as part of their job. They go to work and run around carrying heavy stuff, unlike most of us who go to work and sit down.

Most of us don't get enough daily exercise to justify the calories we're eating.

Hellsbrink

You're on a losing battle I'm afraid. Some people can only believe what they are told by 'experts' and cannot think for themselves.

TZ350

I'm no Johny Wilkinson, nowhere near as fit as I used to be (though still manage to clock up 50 - 60 miles a week running).

Wind back 15 years and my annual aircrew medical would state I was obese, bordering on clinically obese. I played lots of sport, had a muscular (but not over developed) physique, and had a very low body fat percentage, but am a short-arse (5'6").

Half the service Doctors that informed me of my BMI were tubs of lard who would be in the mess, chain smoking every evening.

I used to (and still do) eat the odd fast food 'meal', and sometimes, for convenience, eat ready meals.

Your arguments are completely flawed.

It's not just about what you eat, it's about what you do with the resultant fuel your food gives your body.

Exactly. No faddy diets, no silly "magic" exercise regimes. Simply avoid industrially-produced fat, salt and additive-soaked ready meals and snacks, cut out sugar (watch for the hidden sugar). Eat less and only when hungry, not for pleasure or something to do; eat slowly and stop when you no longer feel hungry. Move more (go running or cycling, go to a gym - three times a week). Result: slow but steady weight loss.

It works.

Eat less and only when hungry,

Nope - because if you're hungry you're at your most likeliest
to pig out and stuff yerself, esp in the evening. Best to have
three squares a day - only just have a limited amount on the
plate enough to last you till the next meal. Except for brekky
one should be only slightly hungry if at all before consuming
a repast.

And no snacking except fruit.

The old one is one worth remembering.

Breakfast like a King, Lunch like a Lord, Dinner like a Pauper.

You have a large meal at night and where do you think the calories go (unless you work night shift)?

The old one is one worth remembering.
Breakfast like a King, Lunch like a Lord, Dinner like a Pauper.I am told that obesity has started becoming a problem in France in the last 10 years or so as the trend has shifted away from lunch being their main meal of the day. Many French office workers now have a JFI (junk food injection) mid morning instead of breakfast, another one early evening and snack through the day. Along with this, it's sad to see that so many traditional French 'brasseries' have been replaced by McVomit, Flunch, QuickPukeBurger, etc. The French consume more JF per capita than USAmericans and France is one of MuckD's biggest markets globally.

That's a pity. They were the one group who seemed to be getting it right.

The thing I noticed in France (about three years ago) was that they didn't have food Everywhere like we do in Aus and the UK. The major railway station in Paris had (IIRC) a proper restaurant, a sweet shop and a sandwich shop. That was it, and it wasn't lunch time, so they weren't terribly busy. In contrast, the much smaller central railway station here has about five US junk food chains, a muffin shop, a pie shop and several others. They do a roaring trade at all hours of the day and night, because no-one seems to be able to spend ten minutes waiting for a train without eating something.

I went to the Motor Show a few years ago and there was a large food place, also doing a roaring trade in chips and high fat food. Again, a lot of people seem to find it impossible to go to an event for an hour well before dinner time without eating the whole way through it (and then leaving sticky finger marks all over the Bentleys, much to the dealer's dismay :ouch:).

People didn't seem to do this in France or Switzerland. If it was lunch time they have a nice big lunch, but I didn't see much of the high fat grazing that's become the norm here. Maybe that's changing. :sad:

People didn't seem to do this in France or Switzerland.

Ah Switzerland. That would be home of cuckoo clocks (or not) and err - raclette, fondue, rostis and all that sweet chocolate.

But are the Swiss a nation of lardbuckets? By all accounts not, so they must be either eating the junk as part of a well balanced diet (and their fresh produce sections always seem so much brighter than ours and not due to chemicals) or at least eating at the right times. Or maybe all they do all day is go skiing or hiking up there with the cow bells, because they don't have much of a work culture there do they? :D:D

[quote ] jabird
" because they don't have much of a work culture there do they? :D:D " [quote]

Worked there much, have we ? :rolleyes: No , I don't think so.

Walking and cycling do seem to be regular leisure activities with most age groups there.

From my current experience Jabird is spot on (compared to the average Anglo-Saxon work ethic, in my company, at least).

But it's true that most people here seem to get the balance right on the fondue/exercise ratio - except I'm trying to exercise away the results of my first winter here (still learning, clearly!)

The old one is one worth remembering.
Breakfast like a King, Lunch like a Lord, Dinner like a Pauper.

True - a brekky has all day to burn off. Dinner doesn't as one
puts one's feet up for the telly then hop off to bed. Here's my
missus-enforced diet at home... (my motivation? sexual!)

Brekky - gallon of water then a bowl of raw oats with bluebs.
2 toasts of cereal grain with a scrape of lo-salt/lo fat marge.
Coffee with lo-fat milk. Lots of fruit.

Mid morning - green tea. Slices of fruit (usually an apple)

Lunch - 2 salad sandwiches (1 with lo-fat cottage cheese), a
side of raw vegies. Green tea.

Mid arvo - slices of fruit with some plain crackers and water.
I can swap the crackers and have 'em with lunch if I want.

Dinner - emptyings of a lawnmower's grasscatcher (no other
way to describe it) with a side of mixed fruit. 2 glasses of red
wine.

No food whatsoever after 8pm!

Are you getting enough protein on that? (Or do you make up the difference when you're away working :E)?

Yeh Worrals I didn't mention I get a small slab of lean steak
or steamed fish every 2nd day for lunch depending on what
I scoffed down when I was away on overnights. Sometimes
I score a boiled egg with fart pellets for brekky on top of the
rest. All depends on how bad a boy I was when I'm away.

Tableview/Capetonian:I am told that obesity has started becoming a problem in France in the last 10 years or so as the trend has shifted away from lunch being their main meal of the day. Many French office workers now have a JFI (junk food injection) mid morning instead of breakfast, another one early evening and snack through the day. Along with this, it's sad to see that so many traditional French 'brasseries' have been replaced by McVomit, Flunch, QuickPukeBurger, etc. The French consume more JF per capita than USAmericans and France is one of MuckD's biggest markets globally.

Let's make it straight after your unjustified french bashing out of the blue:

1-French are thinner than americans. French are among the thinner europeans.

2-Average life expectency is longer in France than in the US.

3-The human being who has lived the longest on earth is french. Jeanne Calment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment)

4-French Health system have been recognize as best in the world SEVERAL times officialy by World Health Organization, the US one NEVER, while France has less public debts than the US (88% versus 105%). Health care in France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_healthcare_system)

Put those hard facts in mind when you come here out of nowhere bashing the french health and food habits, France has much more to teach you on this particular matter than you can teach France.

KAG :

French bashing? Where exactly? I stated that

............ obesity has started becoming a problem in France in the last 10 years The rest of your statements (1-4, with which I agree somewhat) are not based on anything I have said, so I see no need for them. Why are you so sensitive about any perceived slight on France even where none was intended?

1-French are thinner than americans. French are among the thinner europeans.By 'americans' do you mean USA citizens? If so, yes, most nationalities are thinner than US Americans. Not a very enviable comparison is it?

In your patriotic zeal to mention Jeanne Calment, you have failed to note, so I shall do so for the benefit of balance, that 6 out of 10 of the longest living people documented are from North America, 5 from the USA.

4-French Health system have been recognize as best in the world SEVERAL times officialy by World Health Organization, the US one NEVER, while France has less public debts than the US (88% versus 105%)Absolutely correct, it is also one of the most expensive in the world so it should be good. The US does not have a public health system in the sense that France does, so your comparison is naive and irrelevant.
What has public debt got to do with this?

Kag, pull your neck in before your head gets chopped off.

France may be the 128th "fattest" country in the world, but there has been changes and the incidence of obesity is rising, DOUBLING between 1995 and 2004 if you want to be fussy, as has been said. A VERY simple search online would tell you that.

Now, our South Effrican friend was not having a go at the French but was pointing out that obesity is not just a British or American "disease", it is something that is happening across the world due to a change in eating habits, etc and no country is immune from the effects.

Now, when it comes to McVomits, you will actually find that the most profitable place in the whole of Europe for that company is France, with sales increasing 42% in the last 5 years alone. That means 2% of the French population eat McVomits "meals" EVERY DAY, as well as others not eating that muck so regularly.

So, again, pull your neck in because he was right.

Here's my missus-enforced diet at home...

Slash, you've got a really wonderful wife.
<serious mode off>
And her motivation...? :8

Ah Switzerland. That would be home of cuckoo clocks (or not) and err - raclette, fondue, rostis and all that sweet chocolate.

I hate to be pedantic, but there are no "rostis". Rösti (or, as written in transcribed Swiss dialect: Röschti) is always singular, as in Berner Rösti or Appenzeller Rösti. At some point time, some marketing guy came up with the idea of re-naming triangles made from grated potatoes "rostis". Dreadful things, no resemblance to the real thing, which in its most basic form is made from grated potatoes (boiled and left to cool overnight),salted and fried in a blend of lard/clarified butter and, towards the end of their cooking time of 30 minutes, with 1 or 2 tsp of milk added.

A yummy dish which has been bastardized by frozen impostors. As always, good things take time, and this is particularly true for a good Rösti.

And her motivation...?

...Just making sure she's still living the life of Riley when she
reaches my age (what it is today) in 24 years time when I'm
a retired beach bum. She does tend to worry 'bout my weight
more than anything else. At present I'm 3kg over par.

Rosti is rosti - the triangle things are properly called hash browns and are different (and intended to be).

Hellsbrink, your are totally right, but with Tableview it always has to come down to France whatever the subject, and let me tell you he is not here to say nice things about France, in fact when his username was Capetonian he was banned for insulting France (before being banned definitely for other reasons), so please let me defend my country because I know the guy and what he wants. That's not like he was new here and all innocent.


Concerning soda, sugar, fat, cigarette, alcohol... You already know what I think: they definitely are the most dangerous thing to human beings, extremely more dangerous than terrorists, HIV, nuclear and pollution all taken together.
In addition those kind of food are the only entertainement for poor and un-educated people, kind of sad.

Tax on fat and other dangerous food? Why not.

Go on, KAG, try living without any fats in your diet. I'd read about it first, if I were you.

In addition those kind of food are the only entertainement [sic] for poor and un-educated people, kind of sad.Yeah, these two are just poor ferals from the backblocks. :hmm:
Tycoons Clive Palmer and Gina Rinehart battle for Galilee Basin railway lines | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/business/tycoons-told-state-has-a-one-track-mind/story-e6frfm1i-1226337698784)
Neither are poor or uneducated. Both are famously tubby. So was Kerry Packer (another very rich man); apparently he tried every latest fad diet that came along but never managed to lose as much weight as he wanted, usually because he supplemented the diets with lashings of pizza, burgers and Grange Hermitage.

the triangle things are properly called hash browns and are different (and intended to be)

These are also an insult to proper hash browns. In fact, these triangles (or sometimes ovals) are often made from potato scraps left over from commercial (usually frozen) french fry production.

In the US, hash browns are widely considered to be a local adaption of the original Röschti recipe brought in by immigrants from Switzerland.

I may have been unlucky, but whenever I have been dished up "hash browns", they have always been unmistakably frozen creations vaguely warmed up for my pleasure. That has been my experience in the USA and in the UK.

I have, on the other hand, eaten, with great relish, Röschti in Zurich, served with Zurcher Geschnetzeltes, but equally a Rapée Auvergnate more than once.

Variants on a theme. Many culinary "national" classics may be found in similar guise elsewhere, under entirely different names.

What's wrong with people just looking after themselves and having some self control? Easier said than done, I guess.

"U.S. hospitals are ripping out wall-mounted toilets and replacing them with floor models to better support obese patients. The Federal Transit Administration wants buses to be tested for the impact of heavier riders on steering and braking. Cars are burning nearly a billion gallons of gasoline more a year than if passengers weighed what they did in 1960.
***
The books on obesity remain open. The latest entry: An obese man is 64 percent less likely to be arrested for a crime than a healthy man. Researchers have yet to run the numbers on what that might save."

As America's waistline expands, costs soar | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/30/us-obesity-idUSBRE83T0C820120430)

An obese man is 64 percent less likely to be arrested for a crime than a healthy man.

Strange, I thought they'd be easier to catch.......