Diesel instead of Jet A or B

[Syckes]

Hi everyone.

I was wondering about this after overhearing someone mention this a while back.

Is it possible to run a Jet A/Jet B/Kerosene fueled aircraft engine on Diesel or Bio Diesel. I've read up only very little on this and it looks like Jet fuel/Kerosene is fairly close to Diesel in it's composition but I'm unsure of Bio Diesel. My question is if it is really capable of performing well in these engines and/or if it feasible?

Does anyone know if you get conversions for these engines from Jet A/B to Diesel or Bio Diesel.

Thank you very much.

[grounded27]

I know I have done it the other way around. Diesel has more lubricant in it, I used to dump our Jeta in the GSE after sumping tanks to check for water. The owner of a company I worked for went out and purchased a 500 gallon tank, he would take advantage of every time we had to do tank work and had to sump the tanks dry below the level the pumps would quit at. We would dump in a couple quarts of motor oil.

Sir Branson I understand has run a Bio Diesel test flight in a 747. It was well publicised , I am sure the details are within the realm of Google.

[orion1210]

Most turbine engine's i work with have approved data to allow the use of other fuels albeit sometimes with restrictions; for instance, if using gasolene. Diesel could normally be used with few adjustments on a hydromechanical fcu and possibly none on a modern fadec application.

I wonder how much impact the difference in density would have, particulally on a 'heavy' with regards to weight?

[aeromech3]

Flash point of diesel is higher than kerosene, so you would expect more start problems, similar to the thread on the Gnome engines.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Is there any Ethanol in diesel or bio-diesel?

The Ethanol content now found in almost all UK road gasoline (brought about by this bio-fuel fanaticism) is causing havoc with tank linings and fuel system seals dissloving on vintage motorbikes.

If Ethanol is present there may be implications for the physical integrity of the entire fuel system.

[ericferret]

The water content of diesel can be a problem. We had an owner who ran a Hughes 500 on red diesel. You could see the water tide mark half way up the fuel filter highlighted nicely by the red dye.

[Agaricus bisporus]

How/why can diesel have a water content? It's kerosene just the same as JetA1, the differences are minimal and Jet A doesn't have a significant water content. Free water in fuel is surely condensation or contamination rather than a component of the fuel, isn't it ?- Red diesel is seldom stored by the (agricultural) user in anything approaching clean or dry conditions so I reckon that's where the water probably came from.

[unstable load]

Water in Diesel is a big issue, hence almost all diesel vehicles having water separators in the fuel systems.

Diesel is allowed in some aero engines, read the flight/maintenance manuals, ditto petrol (in limited amounts).
PT-6's are permitted to run on specific grades of Diesel for restricted use....
see page 19 here... http://www.pwc.ca/files/en/Know_your_PT6A.pdf

[Capot]

Jet A1 into diesel vehicles is one thing; quite possible but awareness of adverse side-effects (eg poor pump lubrication) is needed. Many an airport has used discarded Jet A1 in its fire tenders. If it all goes horribly wrong the vehicle coasts to a stop; embarrassing perhaps but no more.

Putting road spec. Diesel into a jet aircraft that uses Jet A1 means putting a fuel into an engine with a specification that the engine was not designed for. If or when it all goes horribly wrong people may die and others may go to jail. The basic product is pretty much the same, but it's the details in the Jet A1 spec that count, eg the additives.

[Private jet]

Diesel fuel contains more paraffin wax than Jet A/A1. This wax starts to solidify at temps below zero and can clog filters at -10c. As tank and pipe temperatures can easily drop below this temp, there is a distinct possibilty the fuel lines could become clogged with wax before the fuel heat exchanger warms it up. The answer of course is the use of additives to lower this temp, so you may as well just use jet fuel in the first place.

[AdamFrisch]

Garrett turbines can operate on diesel without problem. You can even run them on gasoline in a pinch, but only for so many hours in a service cycle.

[Max Angle]

If it all goes horribly wrong the vehicle coasts to a stop; embarrassing perhaps but no more.Hmm, rather more than embarrassing if it stops on the way to a burning aircraft.

[Ultranomad]

Phil Croucher (http://www.electrocution.com/) writes in his pilot training textbooks that a mixture of 2/3 diesel and 1/3 avgas/petrol can be used as an emergency replacement for Jet B.

[gr4techie]

This thread reminds me of the gas turbine that powers the transmmision of the American M1A2 Abrams main battle tank.

This Honeywell / Lycomming gas turbine fitted to the tank is designed to use a variety of fuels, including avtur, gasoline, diesel and Marine Diesel.

However I think the only reason for this, is the tank may have a few more fuel supply issues when it's invading across a foriegn nation and will need to use any fuel it can get its hands on, to keep going. I wonder how many Tesco Clubcard points they'll get?

Which isn't so much a problem with a airliner operating out of a well set up airport, with lots of Avtur on tap.

JP-8 is the US tanks fuel of choice. While the Australians prefer to use diesel in their Abrams tanks.

Does 1.7 gallons to the mile. And I thought my 29mpg car was thirsty.

It makes me smile that where I work, if there's a job on that requires a fuel tank draining, the guy who owns a diesel car always volunteers.


Honeywell AGT1500 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeywell_AGT1500)
M1 Abrams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams)

[unstable load]

It makes me smile that where I work, if there's a job on that requires a fuel tank draining, the guy who owns a diesel car always volunteers.
gr4techie,
I drove a Mercedes 240D for about a year and ran it only on Jet A-1 with no other issues than slightly more difficult starting in winter.
We also ran the tractor and forklift truck on Jet A for their entire life in the hangar.