Big bang in Swindon area

[Cyprus countrybred]

Anyone know the origin of the big bang about 1810 hrs heard around Swindon, Wroughton, Bassett areas? Shook windows; clouds too far away for thunder... clues, anyone?
cc

[Navy_Adversary]

Maybe connected to the EGVN post.

[flap15]

My sons internet friends say somthing wnet bang at Kineton ammo dump.

[cornish-stormrider]

Thats the cover story for the Aurora dry run before Jockstrapping Fortnight.

[RAFEngO74to09]

BBC now reporting heard over a wide area - MOD investigating.

BBC News - MoD inquiry into mysterious bang (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17697328)

[Stuff]

Birmingham Airport dismissed suggestions the sound could have been caused by a sonic boom as a plane came in to land.

Landing at Mach 1 is pretty tricky. Just ask a Starfighter pilot. :ok::}

[Tableview]

I expect it will be in the Wail :

Thousands of people fled from their homes in Swindon earlier today as massive supersonic explosions rocked the area as an RAF jet, armed with live nuclear warheads, way off its normal course, careered overhead at Mach 4 (almost 5,000 mph) with the heroic pilot wrestling with the controls to avoid a crowded shopping centre and a school.

17 year old Tricie Littlechav, interviewed with her children Chardonnay (4) and Boxer (2) said : "I was ****ing scared, I can ****ing tell ya. I fought it was the ****ing end of the ****ing world, dinnoi."

[Scuttled]

Tableview.

Thanks, enjoyed that! :D

[fabs]

Experienced a big bang at Wroughton once. (Lasted about the same amount of time as well)

[high spirits]

I would flee from Swindon if I lived there....

[Cows getting bigger]

I said "mate" not "Gate"!

[baffman]

Linked BBC story now saying it was sonic boom from a Typhoon "responding to an emergency" in shape of "a helicopter transmitting on the wrong frequency".

[LunchMonitor]

From the BBC:

Typhoon sonic boom behind mysterious bang reports - MoD
A loud bang which sparked a deluge of calls to emergency services across a large part of England was a sonic boom from a Typhoon aircraft, the MoD said.

Mystified residents across the West Midlands, Warwickshire, Oxfordshire, Somerset and Wiltshire reported hearing a loud boom at about 18:10 BST.

The MoD revealed it was from a Typhoon responding to an emergency call.

A Coventry resident said: "I thought somebody had thrown a brick through the window."

The Ministry of Defence initially said it was investigating what was behind a loud noise in Oxfordshire but a spokesman later confirmed it was from one of two RAF Typhoons that had been launched following an emergency call from a helicopter.

The helicopter had transmitted on the wrong frequency, he said.

Warwickshire Fire and Rescue Service had also said it was looking into what caused the noise, after a flood of calls.

Some of those who heard it said the sound lasted a few seconds.

The British Geological Survey had also said it was investigating the incident.

There were reports of the noise being heard in Bath, Swindon, Coventry, Rugby and Oxford.

[El_Presidente]

Last time I transmitted on the wrong frequency the wife slapped me and told me never to try it again...

Now you get two fast jet mates tearing into you ... scary.

:suspect:

[maxred]

As long as everyone realises that when 'they' do arrive they will eat the fatties first. Be afraid, be very afraid.

[dazdaz1]

El
"Last time I transmitted on the wrong frequency the wife slapped me and told me never to try it again."

I've thought about that once, on the same frequency, I had a back fire:eek: Now staying on line for the standard runway.

[Volmet South]

The Ministry of Defence initially said it was investigating what was behind a loud noise in Oxfordshire but a spokesman later confirmed it was from one of two RAF Typhoons that had been launched following an emergency call from a helicopter.

Sorry but the bull-meter is registering 11 on the manure scale. What are a brace of Typhoons going to achieve ? "Errr yes boss, he isn't kidding, it is indeed a helicopter and my mate says that he agrees as he once saw a helicopter in a book."

I suspect that somebody dropped a boomer by mistake.

[60024]

Also on the BBC website is a piece about an earthquake in the West Midlands just four minutes earlier. Connected? I think we should be told! Typhoons making the earth move? Tornados were forecast for today......

[NigelOnDraft]

I think we heard the tail end of this on Guard between the (chopper) pilot and D&D. If it was the case then:The helicopter had transmitted on the wrong frequencywas actually an inadvertent, or system malfunction, emergency squawk. I'll leave any more details of the RT conversations out, it was a fairly low key discussion, but "something" had clearly happened to trigger it (2 FJs alongside :eek: ?).

And whether such an event / scramble merits a supersonic transit, or maybe someone was a little enthusiastic with the left hand, I'll leave to those in the know ;)

NoD

[G-CPTN]

Are we to expect a recall of Typhoons to fix the sticking throttles (and reprogramme the airspeed governors) ?

[zedder]

After the interview with OC 100 Sqn on the BBC this morning, perhaps we can blame it one of our new 'best buddies' trying to get somewhere tout suite;)

[ChocksAwayUK]

Heard this on 121.5 this evening. From what I gathered the helicopter was accidentally squawking 7700(!), hence fighters. Heli pilots were a bit miffed about the turbulence created by the fighters. That's all i've got.

[60024]

The BBC have taken down their earlier post about the 3.6 Richter earthquake in the Coventry area....

[TheWizard]

From the DT article
Mandy Leech, 44, from Coventry, added: "If it was just somebody accidentally pressing a button in his helicopter I won't be very happy because it woke my baby up and scared the life out of me."

What big picture?! :ugh:

[VX275]

I can't wait for the Olympics when the QRA Typhoon is scrambled out of Northolt to intercept a wayward microlight. :E
The cynic in me thinks today's incident was just another Olympic rehearsal.

[AR1]

A Coventry resident said: "I thought somebody had thrown a brick through the window."

All those millions of pounds and that's the effect.

[500N]

Well next time maybe they should put a bomb throw his window
as they pass over, that will make it really shake !!!

[whisperer]

At last the UK taxpayer is getting some BANG for their buck!

IF the reports of the squawk are correct good on the boys, its a long way from Conningsby to Swindon, and sometimes speed IS of the essence.

[ShyTorque]

An over reaction, if you ask me.

What could a fighter actually do to assist an aircraft in distress?

"You got a problem??"

BANG!

"NOW you got a problem...."

[dead_pan]

There was an Apache mooching about around Abingdon late afternoon. Aren't they supersonic in the dive?

[ShyTorque]

Probably, but only once.

[Alber Ratman]

There were two Typhoons trailling a VC10 out to sea from North Norfolk at 1900.. Certainly not at Mach 1.2 and not on the hoses! :E

[FSXPilot]

Depends where it's heading. If they flew too close to a robbie the blades would fall off it.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<An MoD spokesman said two Royal Air Force Typhoon aircraft had been authorised to go supersonic after a small civilian helicopter had emitted an emergency signal.>>

Incredible.... and ludicrous. God save us from the RAF.

[Hueymeister]

The Vickers Fun Bus, she fast, but not dat fast man!

[Lima Juliet]

Emergency Use of Transponder Codes

In the event of an emergency, pilots should transmit the following codes appropriate to their status:
EMERGENCY - Mode 3A Code 7700 (except that aircraft already receiving an air traffic service and transmitting a code normally retain the code in use)
COMMS FAILURE - Mode 3A Code 7600
UNLAWFUL INTERFERENCE - Mode 3A Code 7500


I suspect the helo pilot got confused and dialled the 7500 code - that would provoke a supersonic "charge" straight out of CGY!

LJ

[Airborne Aircrew]

Last time there was a big bang in the Swindon area, (Hullavington), my beautiful daughter Jen was born in Wroughton a few months later.... :ok:

[ShyTorque]

Leon, bearing in mind the present situation, is it really a good idea to post that quote?

[Clearedtoroll]

<<An MoD spokesman said two Royal Air Force Typhoon aircraft had been authorised to go supersonic after a small civilian helicopter had emitted an emergency signal.>>

Incredible.... and ludicrous. God save us from the RAF.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but presumably an unknown aircraft squawked a distress code that elicited concern, and wouldn't respond to ATC. The fact it turned out to be a 'small helicopter that transmitted on the wrong frequency' is all good, but those facts presumably wouldn't have been in the possession of the person who, IMHO, not unreasonably made the decision to authorise a supersonic transit.

[Courtney Mil]

Leon, check your PMs.

[Courtney Mil]

Clearedtoroll, check your PMs

[wiggy]

Given that the codes are available on every Flight deck in the Western World I'm not sure it's worth claiming "********"( :E)

(edited to remove contentious link and preserve harmony:ooh:)

[Lima Juliet]

Sensitive?

Err, no. If you Google "7500 transponder" then you get 2.36 million hits. Wikipedia has it listed and the quote above was taken from Skybrary. You will find it in Pooleys and other VFR guides.

So just remind me what earth shattering secret I have just divulged? :ugh:

LJ

[TheWizard]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. There's no pleasing some people! :hmm:

[Courtney Mil]

No need for that, Wiggy.

[ShyTorque]

but those facts presumably wouldn't have been in the possession of the person who, IMHO, not unreasonably made the decision/wrote the protocol to authorise a supersonic transit.

Fact is, the "rogue" aircraft had already been visually idented by another civilian aircraft, before the fighter/s arrived.

[Navy_Adversary]

Out of interest, how long did it take the Tiffy from kicking the tyres to reaching Swindon?
Probably around 120 miles, my guess 20 mins, please remove if classified.:8

[Lima Juliet]

Here you go, straight from the UKAIP (which is free to download), here's a link and go ENR1.6.2 Para 2.1(c)

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-D10AD4E7451DF9F235212ADA0987C259/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/AIP/ENR/EG_ENR_1_6_en_2012-04-05.pdf

Hardly classified is it? Also taught to PPL students throughout the world - and probably on Trial Lessons. Also, I'm sure that terrorists around the world have access to the internet, search engines and research via textbooks - they don't all live in caves you know!

Some of you chaps are often too keen to jump on the opsec 'outrage bus'!

LJ

[ShyTorque]

LJ, we all know where it's published. :D

[Lima Juliet]

Navy-Adversary

The maths is quite easy. If doing ~700kts (M1.0) then that's 10nm/minute, so 12 minutes. At ~1400kts (M2.0) then that's 20nm/minute so 6 minutes.

It also depends on what alert status the crews are on - that's the classified bit (along with aircraft fit and its real performance). So guessing how long it will take is GCSE 'time, speed and distance problems' and not going to get you locked up in the Tower!

Obviously, the 'opsec outrage police' will soon say otherwise...;)

LJ

EDIT: Make that ~700mph and ~1400mph rather than "kts" as I erroneously typed last night - oops! :ugh:

(thanks to Ex Douglas Driver for noting my error :ok:)

[FFP]

Did I miss a chance to call "Beadwindow !" Bugger. That and spotting a spelling mistake are the only reasons to read posts these days.....;)

(Agree Leon. People get too precious about open source details)

Did I just beadwindow my beadwindow call ? Sh!t.......

[Melchett01]

How long before the compensation claims start rolling in for broken windows in Rugby, scared sheep in Wales, woken babies disturbing someone trying to watch Jeremy Kyle and some mysterious medical complaint that was suddenly brought on by the RAF doing its job but has left the plaintiff in agony and incapable of work?

[Lima Juliet]

Shytorque


Leon, bearing in mind the present situation, is it really a good idea to post that quote?


Or

"Bearing in mind I am so up tight about this open domain information, is it really a good idea for me to make a big thing about it?"

Seeing as you enjoyed my last post so much, do you want me to post the links for the other 2.36million Google hits for you as well?

Jeeez :ugh:

[Lima Juliet]

Melchy

I thought the same thing earlier and also the fact that LJ Towers needs some new double glazed windows as the current ones are getting a bit rotty.

Now where did I leave that toffee hammer...:E

[ShyTorque]

I think LJ was the one getting outraged and precious here. I questioned his judgement about a quote (as if other professional aviators didn't already know the codes) and he became "outraged" to the point of finding further quotes for all to see.

Meanwhile, I was drinking a nice cup of tea whilst watching the gorgeous Gyneth Paltrow find her relatives on TV .....not actually very outraged at all.

[dead_pan]

Out of interest, how long did it take the Tiffy from kicking the tyres to reaching Swindon?

Out of interest, how far past Swindon would it have travelled before turning around, assuming it was doing mach 2?

Brize's controllers must have wondered what hit them - they've probably never seen a plane fly that fast before.

[wiggy]

People get too precious about open source details To be fair it's probably just a clash of cultures.

Having done Air Defence(A.D.) a million years ago I just about remember our procedures being placed in some sort of security wrapper. It came as something of a shock on transition to the civvie world to find of those same A.D. procedures being "open source", contained in the likes of books, checklists and Flying Manuals ....and if you think about it logically many of the procedures have to be "open source".

[thing]

Just following this up as it's on a thread on private flying. As for 'Beadwindow'...

My barber knows more about the comings and goings at Waddo than I do and I fly from there......I'm not joking either....

When I was at Coningsby if you wanted to know when the next Taceval was you asked the landlord of the Black Horse.

Honestly to get uptight about 7500 as if it's some state secret is ludicrous, it's like getting uppity about military frequencies that are readily available in Pooleys.

[Tankertrashnav]

LJ - That car with the tinted windows in the street outside your house contains agents come to arrest you for alerting the last seven people in the world previously unaware of the codes you so blatantly published.

Shame on you :=

;)

[The B Word]

Don't tell the world that there are military frequencies in Pooleys and the AFE flight guides - is that wise seeing how sensitive things are at present?

Don't panic! Don't panic! To paraphrase the famous Cpl Jones :p

I also agree that no sensitivities have been broken here.

The B Word
(an ex AD mate)

[ShyTorque]

Thing, your barber and landlord probably read PPRuNe. :ok:

[Lima Juliet]

TTN

That car with the tinted windows in the street outside your house contains agents come to arrest you for alerting the last seven people in the world previously unaware of the codes you so blatantly published.

Too late mate, I'm typing this on my iPhone from the boot of a London Cab that turned up earlier (Eastenders stylee). I think Shytorque and Courtney may be driving me to Epping Forest for being a "grass"...

LJ
:ok:

[thing]

That car with the tinted windows in the street outside your house contains agents come to arrest you for alerting the last seven people in the world previously unaware to the codes you so blatantly published.

At least that would be exciting. Someone probably erroneously told me once that there are certain 'trigger' words in e-mails that set the MI5 mob wetting their pants. A friend and I sent each other e-mails along the lines of 'There are heroin packets in the bombs aboard the aircraft.'

You guessed, nothing happened. Another urban myth. I did so want to be interrogated and claim my compo after I'd written the book.

[Corporal Clott]

So LJ, you were wrong, it's not "all aboard the opsec outrage bus"; it was a cab all along! You sl@g!

:E

[Melchett01]

You guessed, nothing happened. Another urban myth. I did so want to be interrogated and claim my compo after I'd written the book.

Of course nothing happened -they are like the Spanish Inquisition ... do you really think they are going to come and nab you when you most expect it? Sleep with one eye open is all I would say. Either that or be prepared for lots of spam emails offering you all sorts of 'drugs' for "gentlemens' issues" :E

[ShyTorque]

Obviously Leon can't countenance the thought of a question from a couple of mere civilians. He's obviously outraged himself to the point of having fantasies about it. :p

If it makes you feel better, to act like a petulent fourteen year old girl, do carry on. :D

[iRaven]

I sleep in a Faraday's Cage supported on rubber spikes and wear a tin-foil hat and nothing has ever happened to me - so it must be true that we are all being watched. 22 years and never even a guy on the Tube with 2 eye holes in his Newspaper...:(

iRaven

PS. Anyone got the frequency for Coningsby Ground so I can listen out?

[Lima Juliet]

http://ian.ashworth.perso.sfr.fr/images/videoblog/2007_01_08/bovvered.jpg

[thing]

My daughter's neighbour has 'difficulties' bless him and is convinced that the BBC are part of the New World Order and are watching him through his TV set. (Why he doesn't just turn it off and ease his mental suffering is another question...). Suffice to say that when my daughter popped round to see if her lost cat was in his house she noticed that he had in fact put tinfoil on all of his walls that faced the outside.....

Coningsby Radar is 120.8, gleaned from my top secret half mil....:)

[Trout99uk]

Some of the story`s going round my home town are good for a laugh, carn`t wait to read the local rag. :ugh:

[Ex Douglas Driver]

The maths is quite easy. If doing ~700kts (M1.0) then that's 10nm/minute, so 12 minutes. At ~1400kts (M2.0) then that's 20nm/minute so 6 minutes.

Apparently your maths isn't up to scratch...!! :8
10nm/min is 600kts g/s. Speed of sound at sea level is ~660kts, so 11nm/min.
Close enough! :ok:

A bit like the supersonic RNZAF Strikemaster that had broken windows and cracked a house wall. More proof that the Blunty could defy the laws of fluid dynamics.

[sitigeltfel]

Growing up in the Scottish Highlands during the 1950s, sonic booms were a regular occurrence. I missed them when they banned overland boom runs. The dogs were much happier though.

[500N]

I enjoyed them in France in the 70's, although it made lunch
interesting. The big glass window at the front of the cafe
used to shake like mad.

[Cows getting bigger]

Beadwindow!!

From this thread we can deduce that Thing works at Waddinton AND has hair!! Yet more state secrets released through the Net. :rolleyes:

PS. Doe this mean that every time I select 7700 on the old squiggly box I'm going to get two Typhoons rushing to my aid? I would much prefer a yellow helicopter. :)

[thing]

Damn, rumbled.....

I don't actually work at Waddo, I just fly from there, subtle difference....;)

[Andrew R]

I was flying to London and heard this.

[Pontius Navigator]

Warwickshire Fire and Rescue Service had also said it was looking into what caused the noise, after a flood of calls.

We need that flood now we have a drought.

[Pontius Navigator]

Fact is, the "rogue" aircraft had already been visually idented by another civilian aircraft, before the fighter/s arrived.

Identified maybe, but identified as friendly? If its status was still in doubt then the Typhoon could still be required to terminate the flight.

[10W]

I can't wait for the Olympics when the QRA Typhoon is scrambled out of Northolt to intercept a wayward microlight. The cynic in me thinks today's incident was just another Olympic rehearsal.

More likely to be a Lynx or a Puma with a 'Follow Me' sign and a sniper as back up. Failing that, Rapier missiles will be in various locations.

And before the Opsec Outrage bus starts up, this has come from an Air Defence/Atlas Radar briefing where the MoD chap said that they want this information out there so that the public and pilots alike know exactly what is likley to happen if someone bimbles in to the Prohibited airspace.

[Union Jack]

I'd like to think that, irrespective of the reason that they were there, the Typhoons were a very worthwhile reminder of "the sound of freedom" in an area where the sound of a fast jet is a fast-fading memory.

Jack

PS Risking the wrath of the Mods, since the relevant thread is now locked, of course the Daily Telegraph has "gone to the dogs" - the Isle of Dogs!:)

[ShyTorque]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShyTorque:

Fact is, the "rogue" aircraft had already been visually idented by another civilian aircraft, before the fighter/s arrived.

Identified maybe, but identified as friendly? If its status was still in doubt then the Typhoon could still be required to terminate the flight.

Pontius, Just think about what you wrote there.....

A pilot squawking that he has a problem and therefore requires assistance (or even not, as we know, yesterday's incident was an innocent mistake) is to be "terminated" by the RAF air defence forces?

So, would you, as aircrew, in an emergency, ever be willing to use your own transponder to notify supposedly your "friendly" ATC unit who will in fact now alert the UK military to home in on you to "terminate" you?

I can't see many pilots over UK squawking any one of the distress codes from now on. I certainly won't be doing so; I'd rather take my chances without RAF "assistance".

[bobward]

Having read through all the four pages of the thread, one thing occurred to me. Nobody actually congratulated the people involved for seeing a possible problem, getting the jets airborne and vectored onto the target pretty damned quickly....

As a tax paying ember of the great unwashed, thank you for doing a totally professional job.:D:D

BTW;
Just what is Beadwindow, or is that sneaky beaky stuff as well?:)

[ShyTorque]

As a tax paying ember of the great unwashed, thank you for doing a totally professional job.

Suffering from burnout, by the look of it. ;)

Beadwindow? Don't mention it.

[Top Bunk Tester]

I mentioned it once ........

but then got flamed rigid on here by the usual suspects.

[maliyahsdad2]

I'd like to think that, irrespective of the reason that they were there, the Typhoons were a very worthwhile reminder of "the sound of freedom" in an area where the sound of a fast jet is a fast-fading memory.

Considering that so many locals didn't know what the sound was (from the you tube clips), you are not far from the truth.

[towerview]

Bead window
Last transmission potentially disclosed unauthorized information

[Milo Minderbinder]

I don't understand all the fuss over a couple of booms. When I were a kid the Phantoms at Yeovilton regularly boomed all over the southwest, we used to try to count how many we could hear in a day. Never a complaint about damage. In fact when the Phantoms were moved north, some local residents complained about not being able to hear them


And its not so many years since you could set your clocks by the westbound afternoon Concordes lighting up - one British over the Bristol Channel, one French over the English Channel. From my parents house you cold hear both

[simon brown]

Oh I remember my training well

75 taken alive,
76 in a fix
77 kiss yer arse goodbye as your wings have folded

..I'd suspect, given the QRA response, 7500 was more like it..

Didnt Concorde used to generate a sonic boom on a daily basis west of Cornwall/Devon when in service whilst accelerating through the speed of sound over the Bristol Channel approaches?

I didnt remember hysterical headlines in the Western Daily Press as a result.
Id suggest this is all being over egged to give the impression to the world that we are on top of things pre Olympics.

If ever you are bored and want an impromptu air display or say a fly past for a wedding , spend a grand on a transponder and set it to 7500 and see what happens.Cheaper than booking the Red Arrows

Hysterical nonsense.

[WillDAQ]

This thread does amuse, there's been nothing posted which can't be discovered by typing "QRA" into Google and yet there's a continuous chorus of beadwindow.

[Halton Brat]

Towerview!

Beadwindow!

HB

[davejb]

Oooh, I can't stop myself....

Durham photographs: DC 20 The Venerable Bede Window (http://www.images-on-durham.co.uk/photo_8457319.html)

Bede's window!

Arf ark snicker....

[10W]

Follow me to the Interception Procedures at 2012 Olympics Actions On Interception (http://www.rin.org.uk/Uploadedpdfs/ItemAttachments/1220-web-2.pdf)

[ShyTorque]

I mentioned it once ........

but then got flamed rigid on here by the usual suspects.

No, I meant Beadwindow means "Don't mention it".....

Now, Beadwindow that Beadwindow!

Or, perhaps more appropriate to some oversensitive types "Ooh..Shut that door!" ;)

[strake]

For all the "holier than thou's"...relax. If you really thought it was a secret (which it wasn't), it's not any more. BBC quoting MOD spokesman and helicopter instructor:

Mr Tinworth said there were four Typhoons on alert, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

"The only time anyone hears about it is when it's over land and when there's noise made - which happened yesterday.

"Pilots need authorisation to go supersonic because it makes noise and upsets people," he said.

This sequence of events was backed up by a helicopter instructor, who did not wish to be named.

He said: "The transponder is a box on the dashboard and it just identifies which green blip you are on the screen for air traffic control.

"The number that you put in the transponder if you're just flying around is 7000.

"But if you've been hijacked, you put in 7500.

"So it's possible he might have entered the hijack code instead - and in the current climate, that well might trigger Typhoons.

Personally, I think that's exactly what happened.

[Stuff]

I dimly recall a sortie in the mighty Bulldog where one digit of my transponder code received by ATC didn't match that displayed in the cockpit. It turned out that the number dial had slipped on its spindle and was one number adrift.

Confused the hell out of me as an EFT stude but then again it doesn't take much!

[oversteer]

Follow me to the Interception Procedures at 2012 Olympics Actions On Interception

I'm glad the UK military has advanced to state of the art technology in interception techniques -
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4356/olympicsd.png

[Two's in]

So where exactly do you hide in the back of a civvy helicopter should one be planning to hijack it? I didn't see much room in the R22 I was in.

[TEEEJ]

Two's in,

Plenty of room in the back of the helo involved. Gazelle G-IBNH according to Fighter Control website.

Foto Private Westland Gazelle HT.2 G-IBNH (http://www.planepictures.net/show.php?id=1123221)

Image of the Gazelle and Typhoon at following link.

Sonic boom rocks large part of Britain as two Typhoon jets are despatched to helicopter emitting hijacking signal | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2129133/Sonic-boom-rocks-large-Britain-Typhoon-jets-despatched-helicopter-emitting-hijacking-signal.html)

[ShyTorque]

So the codes are no secret and can be published / bandied around with abandon? So, logic says that potential terrorists/ hijackers will know all about it. They will now be looking out for this in particular and certainly wouldn't allow a hijacked pilot to set any such code on the aircraft transponder.

So by definition, any "rogue" codes appearing on radars will be mere mistakes, spuriously set codes by inattentive pilots, won't they?

There's absolutely no need to send live armed Typhoons supersonic over land to intercept them. MOD can relax and just get D&D to ask a passing helicopter to check out the "rogue" aircraft.

Think of the green benefits, we're into saving the planet bigstyle! Sorted. Thank goodness for the all-seeing knowledge base on the BBC and PPRuNe. :ok:

[TEEEJ]

Oversteer,

Did you want a moving LED display?

The board is simple and effective.

Exercise Taurus Mountain 2 « Fast Air Photography (http://www.fast-air.co.uk/exercise-taurus-mountain-2/)

I believe the French also use a 'Follow Me' board for their armed helo interceptions?

[Trim Stab]

Shooting down 7500 sqawkers might reassure the general public, but it is not very reassuring for commercial pilots. If I ever get hijacked, it will not be an easy decision to dial in 7500. I would probably only do it if 100% certain I was on a one-way terminal flight anyway.

[ShyTorque]

You probably would be if you dialled it up in those circumstances in the present security climate.

You may as well just shove the stick fully forward and hold it there, in a "terminal" area of your own choosing. :(

[Navy_Adversary]

The 'Follow Me' signs are all very well and good, but do the Helo crews carry signs in Arabic etc, it maybe that a non English speaking person wishes to commit a crime against the sovereign territory.

The Gazelle image linked earlier show the registration mark made out of Duct tape, hmmm?:eek:

Jolly good show to all concerned last night, the Red Tops would have had a field day if no action had been taken, Large G &Ts all round.:D

[Lima Juliet]

More hogwash - an automatic shoot down is not guaranteed with 7500.

On most big jets the squawk is buried deep in the FMS menus and won't be obviously apparent unless you know where to look.

[Trim Stab]

More hogwash - an automatic shoot down is not guaranteed with 7500.



I have no idea whether it is or not guaranteed - I am not "in the know".

But given that the exact policy is likely to be "secret" I have no way of knowing, so I think I'd just not take the risk...


On most big jets the squawk is buried deep in the FMS menus and won't be obviously apparent unless you know where to look.


Perhaps on some, but certainly not on all.

[ShyTorque]

And certainly not on most GA aircraft, and helicopters, even ex-military ones such as the Gazelle.

Your efforts here will possibly persuade some to look deeper into the workings of the FMS. :D

[taxydual]

'Shooting down 7500 squawkers might reassure the general public'

Not if you are one of the general public the wreckage falls on!

[MAINJAFAD]

ShyTorque, There is no need to not band anything about SSR/IFF (anything other than Mode 4 that is) as it is used in Civiee street and is totally unclassified. Also any terrorist with half a brain can switch the SSR Transponder off, which is exactly what the 4 terrorist teams did on 9/11. As for all the KOS's who think that a hijacked helicopter is not a threat, anybody remember the Helicopter based prison break in 1987 from Gartree prison.

[Two's in]

There's absolutely no need to send live armed Typhoons supersonic over land to intercept them. MOD can relax and just get D&D to ask a passing helicopter to check out the "rogue" aircraft.

ST,

Over here in the land of the brave, sending F-16s to intercept fat-fingered transponder operators and wayward PPLs is the norm, simply because being seen to be doing something reassures the great unwashed.

This is today' s TFR for Tampa - note the "deadly force".

FDC 2/3186 ZMA PART 1 OF 5 FL.. FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS TAMPA, FLORIDA APRIL 13, 2012 LOCAL. PURSUANT TO 49 USC 40103(B), THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION (FAA) CLASSIFIES THE AIRSPACE DEFINED IN THIS NOTAM AS 'NATIONAL DEFENSE AIRSPACE'. PILOTS WHO DO NOT ADHERE TO THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURES MAY BE INTERCEPTED, DETAINED AND INTERVIEWED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT/SECURITY PERSONNEL. ANY OF THE FOLLOWING ADDITIONAL ACTIONS MAY ALSO BE TAKEN AGAINST A PILOT WHO DOES NOT COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OR ANY SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS OR PROCEDURES ANNOUNCED IN THIS NOTAM: A) THE FAA MAY TAKE ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION, INCLUDING IMPOSING CIVIL PENALTIES AND THE SUSPENSION OR REVOCATION OF AIRMEN CERTIFICATES; OR B) THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT MAY PURSUE CRIMINAL CHARGES, INCLUDING CHARGES UNDER TITLE 49 OF THE UNITED STATES CODE, SECTION 46307; OR C) THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT MAY USE DEADLY FORCE AGAINST THE AIRBORNE AIRCRAFT, IF IT IS DETERMINED THAT THE AIRCRAFT POSES AN IMMINENT SECURITY THREAT.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I expect the Flying Instructors love it.

"Of course Bloggs, there's no way I can stop you ignoring my instructions when solo...but the Air Force will kill you.":E

[orca]

Do the helicopters also carry a "As you appear not to be following me is there any chance you could let us know where you're off to?" sign?

Or a "Whilst I'm sure that you've thought this through, have you considered what happens to a helo upon impact with anything?...The chances are you will crash into all sorts of things but not your intended target." sign.

Or maybe even a "If you'd worked harder at school you could have hijacked a real aircraft." sign.;)

[Lima Juliet]

Sh!tehawk

Do you really think that hi-jack terrorists just stumble on a plane, manage to break into the cockpit and then just get lucky by stumbling over the myriad of dials/gauges/MFDs - or do you think they might do a bit of research, a bit of flight training and read up on the open-source documentation on the aircraft they plan to take over?

Or do you think they hang on my every word to plan their attack for them? :ugh:

You take paranoia to all time high, me old...:eek:

LJ

[Canadian Break]

LJ, I am amazed by the number of people on here who would like us to think of them as "experts" and their comments on this topic. This stuff happens every day (although not always with a supersonic transit). I think my personal record (not all that long ago) was 4 scrambles plus another 3 "Q to cockpit" in a 12 hour period just to deal with civilian aircrew who forgot/couldn't be bothered to change M3/radio frequency etc.:ok:

[synsei]

Hi guys. First post and I'm not a pilot so be gentle :)

I have a question about this incident. Why didn't local ATC contact this fella to ask him if he was actually in trouble? If they had done so it would have alerted him to his mistake and saved all the bother...

Also, any ideas what the unidentified silver object might be in the Daily Wail story? It's been reported by a lot of witnesses who have stated that one of the Typhoons took an interest in it...

[ShyTorque]

Leon J,

As I said earlier, if a transponder is now seen by ATC as set to 7500, it's unlikely to be for real, for the reasons you have just stated, i.e. it would probably be turned off in those circumstances by a trained person. You're repeating almost exactly what I posted on that subject but you're still trying to disagree with me over that same point! The red mist you seem to be suffering seems to have clouded your vision.

Having done my time as both a military and civilian flyer (about twenty years of each), I do know a little about security and the real threat, on both sides of the fence. I would think every professional flyer here, and most of the ppl holders too, already knew what you decided to copy and paste as a quote, as if it were some clever revelation. So it was unecessary to post it, we all know about it. I asked you a simple question about whether it was wise to post the transponder codes in question, nothing more.

Because I asked that initial question, you seem to be intent on proving me wrong at every turn. You now seem to be turning to childish insults, even to the point of deliberately mis-spelling my user name. As the rules of the forum here say, play the ball, not the player.

You've since gone on to post other stuff that might be best left off a public website already well known to be in the gaze of the media. You have obviously missed the point that the MOD haven't said precisely what caused the alert; they quoted slightly obtusely, off to one side. You've obviously not wondered why? Your blinkered idea of what type of individual constitutes a security threat to an aircraft is not necessarily the full picture.

[ShyTorque]

Canadian Break, I'm not an expert on the topic, if that reference was toward me.

However, I did hear all the radio calls made by London Centre during the incident in question yesterday, so I do know what was said and what was deliberately not referred to, it was quite obvious to anyone in the know.

[Canadian Break]

Getting ATC to talk to them and ask them if they really meant to squawk 75/76/77 etc presumes that they are talking to ATC and, in my experience, this is most often not the case - which raises the stakes a notch or two.

[Corporal Clott]

Shytorque

You "doth protest too much" in my opinion. You have antogonised Leon from the start and if I see any "red mist" it is coming from your keyboard. There have been no security breaches from the very first posts on "7500" and your initial post would appear to have backed you into a corner that you are struggling to reconcile.

Get over it. The use of mode 3 to indicate intent (whatever that intent is) using very well known codes, with a publically available system (mode 3A) and without the use of voice is not an issue for discussion.

Finally, as an ex-policeman, military FJ pilot and now civil pilot I think you have vastly overstepped the "outrage bus" as Leon likes to call it.

CPL Clott

[ShyTorque]

CB, ATC couldn't speak to the pilot involved, he obviously wasn't listening on 121.5 (nor was there a requirement for him to have done so). They made contact with the pilot of another civilian aircraft nearby who had the "unknown rogue" aircraft in sight. He provided useful information to them and even listening to the short exchange of dialogue from the outside, it was immediately obvious that the "rogue" aircraft, in all likelihood, posed no threat to anyone.

The RAF turned up some time afterwards.

Corporal Clott

As far as me being outraged is concerned, you couldn't be further from the truth. If you see a simple discussion, by someone with a slightly alternative view as "outrage", I think it's not me who has the problem.

[Lima Juliet]

Canadian Break

I agree, the problem is that some of our "little darlings" can't cope with monitoring Guard and constantly moan about being distracted by PPL students making Practise Pan calls whilst they do their pre-decent brief over a coffee and a donut - so much for CRM (ie. the non-handling pilot can monitor Guard whilst the handling pilot can concentrate on the job at hand with the Guard turned down :ugh:). So there are most definately many aircraft flying on a day-to-day basis without VHF Guard (121.5) going through their shell-likes.

Now when "the Swiss cheese" holes start to line up in the Reason Swiss Cheese Model with an inadvertent selection of 7500 or failing to contact the next ATCRU on hand-over in controlled airspace and the inability to hear the calls on Guard - you have the beginnings of raised suspiscions of unusual behaviour and a probable call to the military.

I'm sure that Her Majesty's finest wasted 10tons of AVTUR on someone who had made an unfortunate and unintended error - or had suffered from comms failure or a transponder malfunction. But quite rightly they were sent to check on something that was confirmed as suspiscious/unusual as they have been for over 10 years since the Twin Towers.

And before the "outrage bus" fires up again about getting smoked with 7500 squawking and no radio - there are many more things that need to happen or be confirmed before engagement auth is given; those in the know will know what these are (eh, shytorque? ;) ).

LJ

[synsei]

I realise that answering this query could be difficult for a serving pilot and I don't mean to step on anyone's toes, but there are photographs online of one of the Typhoons buzzing the silver object which was reportedly sitting at 30,000ft approx according to multiple witnesses. Whether this object was linked to the incident or not, it is intriguing to me that a frontline RAF pilot thought it interesting enough to climb up to investigate.

[TEEEJ]

Synsei,

Did the Pilot actually investigate the object or was that just an interpretation of the witnesses? I know that the conspiracy crowd are already jumping all over this and think that the 'object' is why the Typhoons were scrambled in the first place!

Link to images.

Bath UFO - What is it? - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pallidcreatures/sets/72157629437504062/)

All I see here is a possible solar or mylar balloon. The wiggle shape blow up is down to camera shake and the photographer acknowledges it.

[synsei]

This is delicate because I am a pragmatic bloke and always look for a logical explanation for this kind of thing, but I also run a UFO forum which is usually an instant conversation killer on forums such as this :O

As you can probably imagine there has been a lot of interest in this incident on my forum. I found out about the incident very shortly after it happened, perhaps as little as 15 mins after actually, so I monitored all the news sites as a result and then the BBC posted a story which suggested that it was a minor earth tremor. Shortly thereafter the story was updated with a quote from the British Geological Survey which stated that there had been a minor earthquake (3.6 on the Richter scale) with its epicentre being in west Coventry. This story was again updated about 30mins later with a statement from the United States Geological Survey which confirmed the BGS statement, according to the BBC. It was about this time that the story reporting the Typhoon incident first popped up on the BBC News website. Very shortly after the Typhoon story appeared, the Coventry earthquake story disappeared to be replaced by an archived quake story from 2008 which reported on a minor earthquake with an epicentre in Herefordshire.

In the meantime I had posted links to all these articles on my forum as the story developed. Weirdly, the first link to the original BBC Coventry earthquake story was redirected by the BBC to the 2008 archived Herefordshire article at some point. This was picked up by one of my members who understandably asked if I had perhaps mistakenly picked it up from the BBC News archives. This was not the case and to prove it I directed him to the BBC News site where the link was still trending at No7 on their most read articles list (at this point the Typhoon story was sitting at No1 in the list). This prompts the reasonable question: Why would a historical earthquake article from 2008 appear in this list?

As I continued to research the story reports began to come in about an unusual silvery, white object seen manoeuvring in the sky above Bath and the two Typhoons and the helo. According to one witness, a single Typhoon broke away from his wingman and the helo and proceeded to climb up to intercept the silver object. Until this point the object had been hanging motionless in a vertical orientation, but shortly after the Typhoon arrived on the scene to investigate, the object promptly moved to a horizontal attitude and shot away in an easterly direction, stopped, and then shot upwards disappearing from view into the clouds. There are several other witnesses who concur with this description of events.

Make of this what you will. I went from believing it to be a story about a minor earthquake, to having to consider it may well be a story about two Typhoon fighters going hell for leather cross country, to wondering if in fact both incidents had occurred simultaneously (the timings of both events were identical in both stories after all: 18:06), to having reports flood in of an unusual silvery/white object manoeuvring in the skies above Bath.

As you can probably imagine the phrase 'Cover Up' is being bandied about all over the place in the UFO community just now. Me, I'm confused and somewhat suspicious about the shenanigans that occurred on the BBC News website whilst I was watching the story develop, which admittedly isn't helping me get to the bottom of what actually happened.

In conclusion, I think that the Typhoon story is likely to be true, that they were scrambled to investigate a bogey over Bath. I also think that once they arrived on scene, one or both of the pilots spotted the silver object floating high above and a decision was made for one of them to investigate this additional target whilst the other dealt with the bogey helo. What happened after that is anybodies guess, but a damning question remains: Why did the BBC initially report the Mysterious Bangs incident as an earthquake, and why were the BGS and USGS brought into it? :confused:

[ENFP]

Well a lot of people seem to get their knickers in a twist over absolutely nothing. No secrets, no compromising of procedures, everything easily available from your best friend...google.Perhaps those used to a military 30 years ago where an inter net was some kind of fishing accessory and Mrs Zuckerman hadn't even lost her virginity may consider that the revelation of 77,76,75 to the great unwashed would have been worthy of 25 years in the Tower, but things are a tad different now. Why I bet we even have new security classifications saying 'Google Eyes Approved'.

Calm down everyone. A mistake was made, which led to a series of departments following a series of procedures and the people paid to take care of our airspace did so in a fully professional and aggressive manner. I would give my left testicle right now to sit in the garden and listen to a jet go SS over the top of the house, and a face full of exhaust from freshly burned jet fuel.

The guys reacted, luckily there was no need. Too much bad publicity and 'outrage bus' screamings and rants, often causes a change in procedure, so that the next time that hijacked aircraft packed with fuel and a bomb is heading down your way and the pilot does try to warn everyone, then there will be no jets launched out of QRA again for fear of upsetting the lefties and those that recall "thats not how it bloody was in my day 30 years ago in the RAF'. The internet has resulted in a lot of information being public domain, it also has replaced the missing sound of jet noise with the constant whine of certain types of people complaining. Stand down everyone nothing to get upset about here.

[Ex Douglas Driver]

On most big jets the squawk is buried deep in the FMS menus and won't be obviously apparent unless you know where to look.

BS, it's clearly and continuously shown on the dedicated transponder panel, or on a dedicated LCD radio tuning control panel .

[Navy_Adversary]

Silver objects at 30,000 feet, I thought the miscreant was a Gazelle,:confused:
Boscombe Down not too far away, maybe another Roswell;)

[TEEEJ]

Synsei,

Go over to Fighter Control website and see the logs of the intercepted communications. You will probably have to register to gain access to the radio log section.

FighterControl &bull; Military Aviation Forum &bull; Index page (http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/)

AeroResource.co.uk &bull; Home to the Aviation Enthusiast &bull; (http://www.aeroresource.co.uk/)

The title of the forum thread is 'QRA up with Blackdog'

Nothing was detected from communications in reference to investigating the 'object'.

By approximately 1830 local the helo incident was over and the Typhoons had requested clearance to break off. If one of the Typhoons had sought permission to monitor this object then do you not think that the request would have been monitored by the radio enthusiasts? Remember the F-15 radio intercept from East Anglia that investigated an object a few years ago?

It wasn't until around 2200 local that the Typhoons returned to RAF Coningsby after air refuelling and transiting back over East Anglia. By 1944 local the Typhoons and VC-10 were overhead RAF Marham. Do you not think that after a possible encounter with an object, as you describe, that the Typhoons would have returned to RAF Coningsby ASAP? Why was there no monitored communications to the controlling authorities of the Typhoon breaking off to investigate such an object?

You just have to look at the Mexican 'UFO' footage over the years to see how people can be fooled by solar and mylar balloons, etc. Also eye witnesses can be completely fooled as to what they are seeing. I read that some of those witnesses were reporting this object up at 35,000 feet! All I see here is a possible solar or mylar balloon in the area at the same time as the helo incident and the UFO / Conspiracy crowd trying to make the pieces fit. The Gazelle helicopter was also ex-military and some conspiracy die-hards are also trying to add this to their 'evidence' of strange going ons.

[synsei]

Another Roswell? No! With me not being privy to all the data I, like everybody else, can only comment utilizing the information available in the public domain. The most startling aspect of this story was the BBC's inability to report the facts accurately. I can't help feeling that the authorities, the media and the BBC in particular have shot themselves in the foot on this one... :ugh:

[synsei]

Hi TEEEJ,

Please understand that I am not looking for 'ghosts' here, I am looking for the facts. There are plenty of 'enthusiastic' members in the UFO community and sometimes it is difficult to be a pragmatist in this field. I have been accused of being a debunker by some of the more enthusiastic members in the community and a nutter by the sceptics. It sounds like a terrible cliche but all I am looking for is the truth in whatever form it may present itself.

I joined this forum because I knew professional pilots would tell it like it is, and believe me that is all I am looking for. I'll take a look at the logs you posted tomorrow. Thank you ;)

[TEEEJ]

Hi Synsei,

No problem. I've contacted the photographer and his camera clock was 20 minutes fast. The first image would have been taken at 1830 local.

[whitf_c]

TEEEJ

Why did it take them so long (3 and half hours) to return to Coningsby? I can drive from Bath to Coningsby in that time!

[500N]

Chasing UFO's ?:O


Can anyone remember seeing the Video taken from a plane high above the UFO,
not the squiggly one but a silver saucer shaped one and it "flew" or was moving below the aircraft ?

Was it in this thread or in the newspaper as another story
following on from the QRA Big Bang / squiggle UFO stories ?

[PTT]

The most startling aspect of this story was the BBC's inability to report the facts accurately.That's a fact which nobody on this forum will find surprising in any way at all. The media are APPALLING at accurately reporting things.

[WillDAQ]

I can't help feeling that the authorities, the media and the BBC in particular have shot themselves in the foot on this one... :ugh:

Media reports and factual accuracy are mutually exclusive when it comes to anything relating to aviation, it's a running theme on this site.

[Sygyzy]

2200 as the return time to Conningsby but later in the piece talk of 1944. Could this be a simple typo for 2000-nearly did it myself then.

S

[TEEEJ]

Sygyzy,

Not a typo.

Whitf_c wrote

Why did it take them so long (3 and half hours) to return to Coningsby?

Because they would have been using the time to conduct air refuelling from the VC-10 and also burn up their fuel. They were noted in radio comms conducting refuelling from the tanker.

One Typhoon was noted over Spilsby, Lincolnshire at 2149.

9:49pm Typhoon manoeuvring with much verve, tight turns, afterburner...over south of Spilsby...

Quite spectacular...both in sound and sight...

One of the Typhoons Pilots was noted contacting Coningsby at 2144 stating that he would burn down fuel for 10 minutes before landing.

Go and check the links to the Fighter Control website that I posted earlier. Possibly you will have to register to gain access? The logs are in the 'Heads Up & OTT' section.

Enthusiasts at RAF Coningsby also noted the recovery of the Typhoons. Scroll down for the night time image of Typhoon, serial ZJ935.

April 2012 Movements | Coningsby Aviation Site (http://milky01.co.uk/?page_id=7049)

Coningsby Aviation Site | RAF Coningsby movements/Pictures (http://milky01.co.uk/)

The image is in the 'April 2012 Movements' list if the link doesn't take you directly to it.

[coldair]

From the BBC ;

BBC News - Sonic boom helicopter passengers 'lucky to be alive' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-17713833)


http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/59674000/jpg/_59674766_59674761.jpg Mr Knott (left) was flying back from the races at Aintree when the incident happened


Continue reading the main story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-17713833?print=true#story_continues_1) Related Stories


'Hijack code' triggered Typhoons (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17699357)
Sonic boom plane caught on video (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-17702953)

A racehorse owner and his family in the helicopter that mistakenly triggered a hijack response by two Typhoon jets, was told they were lucky to be alive.
Anthony Knott, 47, from Dorset, was flying home on Thursday.
When the helicopter sent a distress signal the jets were scrambled leading to a sonic boom across central England.
"The pilot said we were lucky to be alive," said Mr Knott, who was told the helicopter survived the turbulence from the jets because it was ex-military.
"It was like being in Top Gun or something," he told BBC News.
"All of a sudden this plane came from underneath us. The turbulence sucked us round 30 degrees and the pilot said we were lucky to be alive."
The helicopter was flying over the Cotswolds near Bath when it was intercepted.
Ex-military helicopter Emergency services in the West Midlands, Oxfordshire and south-west England received numerous calls about the sonic boom caused by the Typhoons authorised to go at supersonic speed.
The MoD confirmed they were responding to an emergency call from a helicopter.
It later said that the pilot had transmitted the wrong signal by mistake.
Mr Knott, from Sturminster Newton, said the pilot was in shock when one of the jets came past them.
"He said if the helicopter hadn't been ex-military we would have been dead."
Pilot 'in shock' Mr Knott said he had watched his horse come third in the Liverpool Hurdle at Aintree and was a first-time passenger in the helicopter with his son and daughter when the jets arrived.
He added: "The pilot said to us, 'hang on, we're going to catch this turbulence' and it was like being in a bouncing ball.
"We were all strapped in but we got thrown around the aircraft."
He said he only saw one of the Typhoon aircraft that had been scrambled but on its first pass the pilot could not have been more than 200m (656ft) away.
"It was like being in Top Gun or something," he added.
The plane passed by the helicopter two more times communicating with the helicopter pilot before flying away, according to Mr Knott.
He said he did not know anything about the emergency signal and had not been able to hear the communication between the two pilots.
He added: "Our pilot was just in shock. He was quite angry and when we landed he went off to find out why it had happened."



coldair

[Wyler]

So, UK QRA(I) going about their business has really churned up a storm of niff naff and trivea.
I particularly like the UFO types wading in. I was on Q in the late 90s when we got a call from a concerned member of the public regarding lights in the sky. We made some calls and came to the conclusion that it was a party ship off of Gt Yarmouth firing lasers into the sky.
A letter then arrives from one of these UFOlogists (:cool:)accusing us of a cover up and introducing various random 'facts' that bore absolutely no resemblance to what had actually happened. The startling level of ignorance contained in the text made it obvious that these types live in a different world (or would like to). Quite a few man hours were then wasted responding to this clown before we could get on with our jobs.
I also think that anyone who follows these missions on the various social networking sites, and gets aroused by who said what to whom at such and such a time needs to move out of their Nans spare room and meet some girls.
Finally, some people on here who profess to be professionals 'in the know' have a seemingly very poor grasp of some of the most basic roles of the current RAF.
Anyway, time to nip back down the bunker and see if we can open up that saucer we got last week...........:E

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

"He said if the helicopter hadn't been ex-military we would have been dead."


There's nothing like a well trained helicopter with a good memory.

Ex-military helicopter Emergency services in the West Midlands, Oxfordshire and south-west England received numerous calls

So do they all use ex military HELOs or ex military drivers? (please note that the question is rhetorical) :confused:

[WillDAQ]

"Our pilot was just in shock. He was quite angry and when we landed he went off to find out why it had happened."

Would love to have seen how that conversation panned out...

[Tocsin]

When did the rules change? I dimly remember that ex-mil Gazelles were not to be flown with passengers, only crew (e.g. engineers)...

(posted on the Rotorheads thread also, seeking knowledge)

[Canadian Break]

Tell them like it really is chap; muppets most of them! CB.

[Trim Stab]

"He said if the helicopter hadn't been ex-military we would have been dead."



So why pass so close then? Misjudgement?

[synsei]

@Wyler #138: You want to be careful sitting on that fence, I just gave it a coat of creosote... :p

[whitf_c]

TEEEJ

Because they would have been using the time to conduct air refuelling from the VC-10 and also burn up their fuel.

Three and half hours seems a hell of long time to return to base, even if air refuelling was involved. I don't doubt the accuracy of the information I'm just curious of what they would be up to for so long given that they were armed QRA jets.

The radio comms mentioned that they were authorised to fly at M1.2 at 2000ft, which is pretty much flat out. Is it known how long they were travelling at this speed? I assume even the Typhoon would require continuous afterburner to achieve this. I wonder if this was the first supersonic intercept to have taken place over the UK mainland?

[TheWizard]

I don't doubt the accuracy of the information I'm just curious of what they would be up to for so long given that they were armed QRA jets.


Surely, that is the best place for armed QRA jets to be.......in the air!!
That will save that extra ten minutes to get off the ground!! :ok:

[Canadian Break]

Whitf c; No, is the emphatic answer!

[Jamieone]

Looks like proofreading is optional at the DT. What's a 'Typhoeen'? Maybe it's an attempt at onomatopoeia.

Dramatic moment sonic boom fighter intercepts rogue helicopter - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9201835/Dramatic-moment-sonic-boom-fighter-intercepts-rogue-helicopter.html)

[MAINJAFAD]

Jamieone

In fact I think you will find that having any good journalistic qualities at all is optional at the DT at the minute, especially when it comes to defence and aerospace matters, mainly caused by 'Not having any background knowledge in the subject at all' and 'did not do research'!!!

[TEEEJ]

Whitf_c wrote

I'm just curious of what they would be up to for so long given that they were armed QRA jets.

I don't see anything out of the ordinary. Enthusiasts at RAF Coningsby have noted QRA Typhoons being scrambled for QRA missions within UK airspace and then those aircraft not returning for many hours. The QRA would be scrambled as part of a test against simulated hijacked aircraft. Once the test was completed the aircraft would not return immediately to the base. Why not use up the fuel and gain additional flight hours? In the case of the helicopter incident the VC-10 was also up so why not remain airborne to get the full training benefit of the scramble?

Only one Typhoon was authorised to go supersonic

Authorisation was given for one of the Typhoons to transit at supersonic speed over land, which resulted in the sonic boom heard by the public.

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Military Operations | RAF Typhoons scrambled over UK (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/MilitaryOperations/RafTyphoonsScrambledOverUk.htm)

[ShyTorque]

The QRA force's purpose is to identify any aircraft approaching or within national airspace without prior approval or not having identified themselves and which cannot be identified by any other means, i.e. the aircraft is not talking to civilian or military Air Traffic Control, has not filed a flight plan and is not transmitting a recognisable secondary surveillance radar code.

This could describe almost any private aircraft flying in Class G airspace in UK.

[MAINJAFAD]

ShyTorque

That is correct and if they stay in uncontrolled and unrestricted airspace neither NATS or UKASACS will really give two hoots, violate either on the other hand and alarm bells will ring at both organisations.

[ShyTorque]

MAINJAFAD, Thanks, yes of course that's true.

But no "prior approval" (in the context suggested in that statement) is required to take off and fly within Class G in the UK airspace.

[Lockheed73]

Just read some of the thread, some people on here getting awfully heated over nothing... :) and now it's a UFO to blame. Haha. If the pilot has any sense he'll stay in obscurity for both his career and nut jobs (ufo lunatic fringe) chasing him for information that's then taken out of context. Just from experience :)

Keep it up though, I'm liking all the theories behind this incident

[zedder]

FIN1012,
Has there been another Big Bang in the Swindon area as you jumped off the wardrobe in your Superman outfit to claim your 50th Birthday pressie?:eek:

[Wander00]

Z- is that not the bare bonnes of a joke, cerytainly told around B+n++++K in the 80s, about engineers bienig discouraged from flying?

[MAINJAFAD]

Zedder / Wadder00, that story came from Kinloss when I first heard it at Valley. Does it include broken legs, the lack of a top of a locker and a Girlfriend who was too tied up to help. (Heard an army version of it once as well, but he was Batman).

[pulse1]

I guess that this is one way of ensuring that the pilot of a light aircraft infringing restricted airspace cannot later deny having seen an intercepting Typhoon.

[FLCH]

Right about the time of the bang, my girlfriend sat down to eat a Big Mac.

You can see she ate the Mac wiped the wrapper on her face and is ready to eat the table for dessert.

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu285/alleyydeva07/fat-girl-thong.jpg

[zedder]

Can't remember where I was when I first heard that wardrobe story, possibly at St Mawgan. I definitely remember it did include the broken leg bit, the bloke ending up trapped in a locker or wardrobe, and the fact that the girlfriend was tied to the bed. I vaguely remember that it was the RAFP that had to sort things out, and then presumably try and write it up on tear-soaked notebooks!!

I can confirm that FIN1012 wasn't the person involved, unless of course he has forgotten to 'fess up'.