BA lay-offs at gatwick - BEEB

[Heathrow Harry]

Almost 600 British Airways (BA) employees at Gatwick Airport could lose their jobs or be transferred to another company as part of plans by the airline to cut costs.


BA is proposing to shed 170 customer service and management support jobs and outsource 400 ramp worker roles.



The airline said it had begun consultation with unions over the plans.
The GMB union said the announcement was a "disaster for staff morale".
Gavin Davies, of the GMB union, said: "We will want to see proper consultations with our members on the way forward.
"GMB members want BA to take this announcement off the table to allow this to happen."
The Unite union said the plans were "extremely worrying" and called for the airline to guarantee no compulsory redundancies.
'Meet the challenge' In a statement BA said its proposals were part of a wide-ranging plan to build a stronger and more cost-competitive business and safeguard jobs for the future.
The jobs it plans to outsource include baggage, de-icing and coaching operations, and the arrivals baggage service.
The airline said it hoped to offer anyone who works on the ramp a role with a new external supplier.
BA's statement continued: "We have to meet the challenge of transforming our cost base to compete more effectively in the short-haul market, while continuing to deliver outstanding service and value for our customers."
BA is the only airline operating out of Gatwick with its own ground staff

[cjhants]

Thread running on flight/ground ops (who handles who).

[stormin norman]

Thin end of the wedge i'm afraid. LHR next in the firing line ?

[13Alpha]

The jobs it plans to outsource include baggage, de-icing and coaching operations, and the arrivals baggage service


That would be a shame. When I flew LGW to EDI and return over a weekend a couple of years ago and my baggage went to Barcelona by mistake, the BA helpline in Newcastle couldn't help, the outsourced baggage handling people in EDI couldn't help and it was only when I approached a BA baggage person in LGW arrivals that my bag was traced and returned to me.

If BA is looking to differentiate itself from its competitors, outsourcing everything to the lowest bidder isn't going to help. All the good work flight and cabin crews do on board can be quickly undone by shoddy service on the ground. That's how they lost my routine custom.

13Alpha

[davidjohnson6]

13Alpha - completely understand your point, but cutting costs is all about trying to figure out where you can save a bit of money, without anoying the customers too much.

As an example, banks in the UK used to all have lots of branches, and people did everything in a branch. Then banks opened call centres and encouraged customers to bank by phone. This worked reasonably well, so the next step was to move the call centres from places like northern England or Wales to somewhere with even lower wages like India. At this point, service levels dropped sufficiently that customers protested in large numbers. Firms were then forced to bring call centres back to the UK.

Yes, there will be cases where someone who's been outsourced is either unwilling or unable to help but the question is how many people will be really annoyed and how much future sales will suffer. If the cost savings are large and the potential sales / profit impact is low (or the bulk of customers are not prepared to pay for the higher level of service), then it's difficult to resist doing some sort of outsourcing, particularly if one's competitors are all doing it and benefitting from lower costs and higher profits.

Ryanair may provide shoddy service and treat customer service as a joke, but their costs are very low, their profit margins high and they make an awful lot of money.

[13Alpha]

Yes David I know why they're doing this, and I've seen this process happening in many other industries including the one I work in.

I just don't think that in the long term it's in the best interests of anyone - not even BA's shareholders. You mentioned banks - if you want to look at long-term destruction of shareholder value you'd be hard pushed to find better examples than Britain's banks.

Cutting costs at the expense of customer service might appear to work in the short-term. Margins improve and, as you say, as along as you don't annoy too many important customers, you might get away with the drop in service for a while.

But as the years roll by, more and more people experience the poorer service, customer loyalty evaporates and you lose any differentiation from your competitors. And the people who remain in your organisation, rather than coming to work motivated to deliver excellence for customers, which is something they can be proud of and enthusiastic about, become increasingly demotivated and embarrassed by their employer, and your brand gradually goes down the toilet, soon to be followed by your revenues and profits.

Ryanair is a very successful business, yes, but is BA really trying to compete in that segment of the market ? If it does, it will lose.

13Alpha

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "I just don't think that in the long term it's in the best interests of anyone - not even BA's shareholders. You mentioned banks - if you want to look at long-term destruction of shareholder value you'd be hard pushed to find better examples than Britain's banks.

Cutting costs at the expense of customer service might appear to work in the short-term. Margins improve and, as you say, as along as you don't annoy too many important customers, you might get away with the drop in service for a while.

But as the years roll by, more and more people experience the poorer service, customer loyalty evaporates and you lose any differentiation from your competitors. And the people who remain in your organisation, rather than coming to work motivated to deliver excellence for customers, which is something they can be proud of and enthusiastic about, become increasingly demotivated and embarrassed by their employer, and your brand gradually goes down the toilet, soon to be followed by your revenues and profits.

Ryanair is a very successful business, yes, but is BA really trying to compete in that segment of the market ? If it does, it will lose."

Good point, 13Alpha, and well made. BA cannot compete with FR and will not attempt it! On the other hand, giving U2 "a run for it's money" at LGW is entirely different.

[vectisman]

Fairdealfrank
I agree with your comments about Ryanair and BA.
I believe Ryanair created and serves its own market. Both EasyJet and BA compete for a different market sector. I do not believe BA or EasyJet would waste many resources competing with Ryanair. Both companies operate a full range of services all year round and have a customer base that tends to do repeat business with both of them and which doesn't mind paying a little more for extras and primary airports etc..
Ryanair seems increasingly to be more seasonal (I am not saying this is wrong just making the point) knowing it can make lots of money from its own market albeit only at certain times of the year.
V.

[Qconn]

13Alpha

When I flew LGW to EDI and return over a weekend a couple of years ago and my baggage went to Barcelona by mistake, the BA helpline in Newcastle couldn't help, the outsourced baggage handling people in EDI couldn't help and it was only when I approached a BA baggage person in LGW arrivals that my bag was traced and returned to me.

So the BA people at LGW who lost your bag were able to tell you where they had sent it and managed to get the outsourced people in BCN to send it back to you!!! That's a great way to differentiate.:ugh:

[13Alpha]

So the BA people at LGW who lost your bag were able to tell you where they had sent it and managed to get the outsourced people in BCN to send it back to you!!! That's a great way to differentiate.:ugh:


It's a fair point. I didn't really think that through, did I ? :O

I'll get my coat...

13Alpha

[bar none]

Stormin Norman

Half way down the wedge I think. The thin end was in 2007 when Man, Bhx, Gla et all were outsourced.

[Skipness One Echo]

You need a critical mass of flights to self handle, the regional operations lost that when only the London flghts remained. I doubt LHR passenger services would ever be outsourced, ramp yes.

[Skipness One Echo]

bmi and Iberia are both handled / to be handled by BA. Vueling are to BA what flybe are to BA, IAG own shares in both.

[davidjohnson6]

Skipness - completely agree in that IAG is a minority shareholder in both flybe and Vueling. There is however a difference with IAG having a much larger shareholding in Vueling and barring a major shareholder revolt, are theoretically able to exercise effective control over Vueling

[Skipness One Echo]

True but Vueling is still a Terminal 3 based Menzies handled non Oneworld airline with no Iberia or BA flight codeshare (is that last bit right?). All of which could change overnight of course.....

[groundagent]

Vueling is still a Terminal 3 based Menzies handled non Oneworld airline with no Iberia or BA flight codeshare (is that last bit right?).

From the Who handles who 2012 thread . . .

ASIG
Emirates (Pax/Despatch only)
Iberia (Pax/Despatch only)
Scandinavian Airlines
Thai Airways Int'l
Turkish Airlines
Vueling (Pax/Despatch only)

British Airways
British Airways
Iberia (Ramp only)
Vueling (Ramp only)



Not sure that Menzies do handle Vueling in LHR, but this may be old info?

GA

[Skipness One Echo]

Ah you may be right, I remember Iberia and Vueling with Menzies but these things change a lot.

[Habana2118]

BA fully handle above and below wing Iberia in T5, Vueling is still in T3 and ramp handled by BA whilst ASIG do passenger services