PIFR & FPA's

[jts01]

Hi guys
I'm trying to get my head around the PIFR rating.
I understand that it needs to be tested in at least two sittings if you want approach/departure/holding capability.
The way I read the CAAP - you can't fly IFR in controlled airspace unless you hold a holding endorsement [9.3.5(2)], this would mean that the initial rating can't practically be used from Jandakot?
Also I've passed the PIFR exam, do I need to pass any further written exams before attempting the subsequent FPA's?
Any comments appreciated.

[QSK?]

jts01:

Check your PMs

[in-cog-nito]

Hi there,
It will take about the same time to get a PIFR with the lot (FPA's that is) as it would to get a CIR.
I suggest you do the CIR, and submit an application for the PIFR with your CIR test forms on completion of your training. Then you can enjoy your PIFR without having to go through all the fuss of your training being broken into a peice here and a peice there.

I know that as far as renewals go, you just do a PIFR AFR every two years. However. If you have one with the lot (FPA's that is), you will need to be tested on each individual FPA! You can easily knock over a CIR renewal in less time and less coin than the Hamburger with lot PIFR AFR and still be able to exercise all the privileges.

You can still renew a CIR upto 12 months after the expiry date before it becomes an initial issue again. So you can almost get 2 years out of it anyway! IMHO, a 12 month check would be better for safety and currency reasons.

Remember! IFR is serious stuff. The cloud, the ice, the turbulence and the circling approaches are just the same for the PIFR pilot as it is for the rest of us. Keep current and treat IFR flying with the respect it deserves.

In-cog

[Jabawocky]

Agreed with InCog :ok:

I did a CIR and 12 months latter did a renewal and had the PIFR written out. This forced me to do the first renewal anyway.

I now have a renewal each year, because Alan Dunbar gives a good education and you learn something new every time, and for the money he is great value.

Could I do it every two, sure, and I fly a lot more than most private folk, probably 4 times as much, so I could keep safe and current, but it is serious stuff sometimes.

Some folk never fly a full flight from minima to minima, most private guys at least, but I have. I have also done a two and a half hour flight sans AP in 2 hrs of IMC (did have another pilot beside me so I could take a drink or talk to ATC etc) and I would say that while the RFDS and Airline guys take this in their stride every day, it is serious stuff and high workload when Single Pilot IFR.

So test and test often! :ok:

[Jack Ranga]

Hamburger with the lot


mmmmm............now where have I heard that before?? :D

[Harro]

Hi I have a PIFR with the lot,

I think the holding endorsement is one of the minimum requirements for the initial PIFR.
I would not recommend doing the intial rating without any approach FPA's, you dont want to get stuck up there !

Offically you do need to do two sittings for the test , speak to your flying school re how they normally structure this.

Sorry not sure about the theory I completed the IREX.

Having flown with a PIFR for a while now my 2 cents on the rating,

Although the PIFR serves me just fine if I had my time again I would probably do a CIR. Why ?

Well in the end I dont think the PIFR provides me with any benefit over a CIR . In training I cut 3 hours off the CIR miminimum as my instructor said I was ready, but nothing to get excited about there.

I have found the relaxed recency requirements mean little as I've learnt from real world flying you dont want to be flying in actual IMC if your not in practice.

Jaba mentions minima , he's right many do not experince real approaches down to mimima however even an approach down where the base is a few hundred feet above mimimums can make you anxious especially when rains hammering the windshield and streaming off the wings. Then when you break out, vis is lousy and then the runway looks like its half underwater.

Might be a normal day in the office for an RFDS or charter pilot but for the average private pilot you have no business being there if your last instrument approach was conducted 12 months ago.

Over summer I went almost 4 months without flying IFR. Longest break I've had since gaining my rating. Planning a trip away shortly so wanted to be sure I could do it IFR. Legally could just go with a PIFR , however I personally was not comfortable with this so ended up doing some sim work and a decent IFR check with my instructor in the plane.

All went well and I'm happy to go now but point being may as well have a CIR as if your a responsible pilot, self preservation will ensure you meet or exceed the CIR recency requirements anyway.

cheers

[Jabawocky]

Great attitude :ok:

Most think that way, unfortunately one or two don't :(

[T28D]

The intent in introducing the PIFR was to introduce procedural flying with IMC ability to the world of the Private pilot.

It was intended to reduce the number of CFIt accidents that were happening particularly in high performance singles, C 210, bonanza et al.

In this regard it has been very successful, the CFIT in IMC have reduced significantly.

PIFR was never intended as a replacement for the CIR, in fact in the planning stages it was heavily debated as to whether the ILS would be allowed into primary airports, the original thought was for only NDB, GPS, VOR, DME ( using GPS ) letdowns to seconday airports and avoiding the "trapped on top of solid cloud cruise problem".

PIFR was really a discipline tool for private pilots, never intended for the professional pilot.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
An T28D would know, being the co-author/father, along with a particularly long sighted CASA counterpart, of the final PIFR, as she is writ.
Tootle pip!!

[jts01]

Thanks gents

My desire for the PIFR was primarily based on the fact that the IREX includes multi engine considerations, something that is irrelevant to me.

I still want to have approach/departure capability, and I plan to adhere to the CIR recency requirements in any case. Once I've added all the FPA's I'm sure the training time will be close to the 40 hours, so there is no major incentive there.

I'm leaning towards going back and doing the IREX and then the CIR (with PIFR).

[in-cog-nito]

I have always found the syllabus and sample question in the link below very handy to help students prepare for the IREX in conjuction with a structured theory course. Preferably with someone who knows the subject and not just reading from a book.

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - IREX Sample Examination Questions (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_90060)

Read it thoroughly and carefully as these are basically the rules that the question writers follow when constructing questions for the exam.
Things like;
'Unless otherwise stated or configured, the following information applies to the examination questions.'
In other words. You flying VH-OZY on an IFR charter for one question, but the next question might have you flying a PVT op with only a VOR to an aerodrome with an NDB.

So it doesn't matter if you hold a PPL and have never been involved in Charter or Multi engine or Multi crew ops. These are just a words that you associate the question with when looking up the appropiate regs for the answer.

You have probably heard of RTFQ before!
R-Read
T-The
F-FULL!!
Q-Question
You have 3.5 hours, so take your time to understand what is being asked.
Apart from that.
Good luck.....and don't :mad: it up!

Cheers,
In-cog

[T28D]

And the other acronym of note RTFM

Read

The

F**king

Manual

Make sure you really understand the AIP before you go nto the IREX note UNDERSTAND not just read it.