View Full Version : Corporate to Airine
9th Apr 2012, 13:41
This is my first post and i'm looking for some advice. Perhaps there are here some collueges who recognize the situation.
I'm 35 years old (or young) and having 2400 TT ofwhich 1900h on lj31. And to be honest, i'm really fed up with corporate flying, and not just a bit. Always the :mad: managment with their tricks to save money, always having to be available and the few flights one do. Even poor career perspectives. It makes me sick. I have discussed with a lot of other corporate pilots and in other GA companies it is not different.
So i came to the conclusion i want to join an airliner. Yes, for others airline stuff might sound boring (even flyingwise) but i desire for just a routine pilot life. Fixed schedule, just a few standby days, not doing other jobs like updating jeppcharts and waiting hours in the maintenance facility waiting for your aircraft to be fixed. All the typical GA stuff.
The problem: i'm afraid with my 35 years i'm too old to join an airliner. I've send a lot of letters but not the slightest interest. Are there people around here who also did the change from GA to airline? What can you advice me? Do you think i'm too old? Any help is welcome. I have no idea what to do. Thank you.
10th Apr 2012, 06:36
235 views and nobody has this experience??:rolleyes:
Efe Cem Elci
10th Apr 2012, 08:00
I don't believe you are too old to make the change. Even with the relevant training (if necessary, you failed to mention your license) and type rating, and of course presuming you get an airline job quickly, you'll still be breaking into the airline world before you hit 40, so with at least 20 years to go as long as you stay healthy.
On the other hand, I think you should seriously consider your motives for this change. What you are saying about GA, and what you have heard about GA from other pilots in other companies are what you will hear from many airline pilots if you speak with them as well. Or just spend an hour or so each day reading posts on Pprune written by active airline pilots. Just because you stop flying corporate and take the step to a (probably) bigger bird doesn't mean you leave corporate behind. If anything, in my experience there is even more of that bullshit in the airlines.
Fixed schedule, standby days, not doing odd jobs or waiting for maintenance to deem that the bird is ready to fly sounds good on paper but many airline pilots will tell you that especially in your first years and even more depending on the airline you will see a lot of the things that you want to leave GA for. Don't forget: the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence.
I'm just saying look at both sides of the story, and don't take the leap until you have.
GA companies it is not different. It can be different, you just need to find the right company, have a look at websites (cant name them) for Learjet positions that may take you out from your own country, you might find that you enjoy it.
Unfortunately you dont have the experience for airlines such as Emirates and Qatar, nor do you have the hours for DEC, so you are left seeking a right seat, thanks to the "wonderful" world of P2F, you are fighting against people who are generally younger than you and are willing to pay a stupid amount of money to pursue "their dream"....
Efe Cem Elci
10th Apr 2012, 08:41
Very well put Mutt... but I like to use "their goal" as opposed to "their dream"... :rolleyes:
I'm guessing that's why you had it in quotes.
It puts it in a better perspective for everyone else...
10th Apr 2012, 10:02
Sorry to be unhelpful here but I just have a question.
I always fancied doing both airliners and one day GA in nice biz jets. Is it really that hard to change? I thought as long as you have the hours it should be relatively easy. Is it a lot more harder than I thought?
10th Apr 2012, 10:17
The difficulty i experience is not having the typerating.
10th Apr 2012, 10:30
Where do you live? Would you consider relocating to the East German wilderness?
10th Apr 2012, 11:00
Relocating is not a problem. The airline is for me a way to go. Seen enough in GA.
10th Apr 2012, 13:09
DHLAir uk? Do some PPrune searching - there's plenty of stuff on this site about it.
11th Apr 2012, 06:00
Deltahotel: dhl air uk would be a perfect outfit for me. But i gues they are not waiting for a 35 guy with only lear time.
Winggreencard: no i dont have any of those fancy ratings. Only lear time. Operators must be laughing when i apply. Tried even with QR 6month ago, but not even a reaction. Then i tried wizz,( im even prepared to fund typerating), but like usual no reaction.
11th Apr 2012, 10:49
Stick. All sorts of entry levels here - you may be surprised!
11th Apr 2012, 10:59
Deltahotel: got an email of them saying that i need 500 multcrew on aircraft over 40T, although i was interested in East Germany.
Guess i have to look further, but thanks anyway.
25th Apr 2012, 18:20
Just a question: i applied in december with qatar airways but did not get a single reply, however i see guys applying after me and getting an interview. Is this because i have only corporate experience and not being interested in my skills? Somebody have the same experience?
30th Apr 2012, 14:52
Tried easyJet Switzerland? They hire pilots from different background like former military, bizjet drivers, cadets and from major airlines. I think is one of the few companies still interested in expeience as well and not just cheap staff to fill the right seat.
I did this move in 2006, trading my shiny Savannah built jet for a stable airline job. I admit, sometimes I still miss it, but in general I think it was my best decision ever!
30th Apr 2012, 15:20
I doubt if you can get on the fast track without making some type of investment, that type of experience on the Lear is great, something that most FO's can only dream about.
I'd suggest you get a A320 type rating and get registered with some contract agencies, good luck.
30th Apr 2012, 15:59
You say: "I'd suggest you get a A320 type rating and get registered with some contract agencies, good luck."
I say: "Do no such thing".
A type rating on the A320 without hours on type is dead money. There are very, very few jobs out there unless you have at least 300-500 hours on type AS A MINIMUM.
Your profile has your location as Planet Earth. I'm not so sure.:eek:
2nd May 2012, 17:57
I know how you feel. I was in corporate aviation for About 2 years and that was definitely enough, I went to an airline, and would not choose to ever go back to corporate flying.
2nd May 2012, 18:33
Easyjet Switzerland would be great for me. But how to apply? I guess it is via ctc. From what i've heard is that they only consider youngsters???
Or does easy switzerland have their own selection process? If i google i always come on the website of easy uk.
2nd May 2012, 20:52
you are never too old to change job if you are unhappy in your current job, go for it. BUT do not pay your own typerating,,,,,,,it is a waste of money, go for bonding only.
I changed when I was 36 and I glad I did.
3rd May 2012, 01:21
I flew corporate for over 10 years before I finally was in the airlines full time, I had to resource to go back a couple of times seaking refuge from airline shut downs in the 90's and after 9/11. It is a hard thing to accomplish since as some have pointed out, it will be costly because you will have to start from the bottom again, thus the entry level salary being low for sure. I finally made the solid jump at 36. The first step of leaving corporate is, leaving corporate! You will have to take the plunge and take whatever low paying airline job you can find so that you can start getting some experience in the industry, you need airline time in your logbooks to get any decent airline job, so the first step is to get the time with not such a decent job. The road ahead will be hard but flying corporate sucks, I would have rather just leave aviation all together if I wasn't able to change to the airlines. The best of luck
Deep and fast
3rd May 2012, 08:18
Jesus fellas its not that bad! You don't get your bum wiped for you but it is not impossible.
I did think of joining your crowd Dominican, but had to see how the dust settled after the two entities joined forces, but the dust still hasn't settled :}
3rd May 2012, 08:44
If you can make the jump away from corporate without paying for a rating, then do it IMHO - corporate AOC seems to be a nightmare in general, so I understand the desire to get into a properly structured and run operation, rather than most of the mickey mouse shams that prevail in the corporate world.
3rd May 2012, 10:51
Dear all, thanks for all for the good ideas. I considered to try ctc wings atp, but then realizing i have to pay again. Somehow im reluctant to do that. 36 almost and paying again and doing all kind of weird tests without any outcome, not really my thing. I'm just going to apply again as much as possible. There must be an operator out there who is interested in me. Even it was a regional airliner.
3rd May 2012, 11:02
I have been many years in low cost airline and I am fed up and looking for corporate. I am not kidding
3rd May 2012, 11:04
Wanna swap??? :}
Full Left Rudder
3rd May 2012, 12:37
Easy Swiss take a mix of age groups as FOs. Mainly younger guys yes, but it is by no means a hard rule.
They take guys from many backgrounds - ex military, from other airlines, cadets, and corporate.
I believe it is a bond for the new guys for the rating too, rather than a payment. But I am not sure. Either way, if you have to pay up front then make sure you do so in Sterling or Euros. With the strength of the Swiss Franc against the Pound/Euro you will pay back the rating in no time provided you don't live in expensive Switzerland. Many people live just across the border in France. This makes the salary go a long long way, and so a type rating repayment would be a short term rather than a long term investment.
From what I have seen, all new joiners do their rating with CTC, and consequently I imagine any bond/payment will be in Sterling. Good news.
I would recommend it as a good option for jumping ship. Not perfect, but a good job with great pay.
3rd May 2012, 14:07
Easy swiss would be great indeed. But you have to apply through ctc which cost again money, you have to do again a mcc course etc. Then, if you succeeded test, they put you into hold. And they will not neccessarily put you with them.
Full Left Rudder
4th May 2012, 05:26
Stick35 - are you sure that CTC is the only way in? It is one way in that I know of (mainly for cadets), but most people are interviewed and sim checked by easyJet Switzerland management and TREs. They are then sent to CTC for their type rating course once they have been successful in their application. As far as I am aware, CTC have nothing to do with the selection procedure.
4th May 2012, 17:35
Hi full left rudder
I googled a lot to get info about easy swiss. But every time, im getting directed to the ctc company. Plus, applications with ctc ate closed at the moment (wings atp) Would be great if i know perhaps a direct email adress of HR of easy swiss, if that exists of course.
5th May 2012, 10:30
I have been lucky enough to experience both sides of our industry. I am currently working for a well-respected airline with many hours on the 320. Previous, I was working for a small corporate company.
In my opinion I preferred the corporate scenario. You had to do a lot more than just fly a plane but that was what made it more interesting. I’ll try and weigh up the difference between the two from my experience.
On call a lot however a lot of time off especially if you can get a one week on one week off scenario which is becoming more and more industry standard. T&C's tend to be, on the whole, less than what you would receive in the airlines however that is rapidly changing as airlines constantly try to degrade remunerations. Sometimes, long waits down route for punters. Job stability maybe perceived as less in the Biz Jet world but this is common throughout the whole industry these days.
Interesting PAX that you can interact with. Occasional night stops where you are able to see and enjoy where you have flown to. Real flying into real airports that tend to not be as busy as the airline saturated ones. From my experience a more Laissez-Faire cockpit scenario.
A small cog in a big machine. Able to fly large jets (if that floats your boat). Home most nights. Stable Roster. Supposedly better T&C's! Engineering backup at most outstations. Generally having your rear wiped for you.
Repetition of boring routes into fully radar controlled airports all of which have ILS's. On the whole, very early starts and long days of the above mentioned type of flying which then move over to lates in the next rotation. Occasionally having to deal with the superiority complex of some airline created Captains. No social interaction with PAX's and because of that, being treated like a glorified bus driver by the PAX's. Constant fights between Unions and Company that creates a “them and us” scenario. 800 - 900 hrs a year of flying.
I do realize that some people have had totally different experiences than myself and some may put each of my comments in different "box's" and I would love to hear other peoples thoughts and experiences, but for me, if I was given a choice between my current employer and a well-respected biz jet outfit, I would choose the latter because it is not as boring as airline flying.
8th May 2012, 07:14
Stick35 you have PM :ok:
8th May 2012, 09:49
I would definitely appreciate the same details (leaving the military and no wish to give any more cash than strictly necessary to CTC), although I understand entirely the reticence to send someone's contact details and them be subjected to a barrage of e-mailed CVs!