GTN650/Aviation out?

[n201cm]

I just installed at GTN650 to replace a GNC300XL in my Mooney. I'm happy except for one thing. Thus far the "aviation out" from the GTN to my Garmin 695 is not working in the same way as it did from the 300XL. When a flight plan is activated in the GTN650 it immediately displays the plan on the 695 and shows the active leg in magenta and the inactive legs in white. This is expected, however, if an approach is loaded at the end of the flight plan none of the waypoints in the approach are displayed on the 695, whereas the 300XL would display the entire approach. My installer is unable to help with this, and my one call to Garmin was that "it should be working, try updating the 695 software." Naturally I have done the upgrade to no effect. The loss of this approach ability on the 695 is a big loss in my view. Any techs here that might offer a suggestion? (I do believe that my Shadin fuel computer is sharing the "aviation out" pin from the GTN650, but this was also true with the 300XL.)
THANKS

[n201cm]

I put up a post a few days ago asking for input on the "Aviation Out" function of the GTN series. I know many of you use this connection to link your Garmin panel mount to a Garmin portable.

It is now confirmed from Garmin that this function no longer works as with previous models! What a sad loss of function. I am very upset by this as I now can only display flight plan info on the 695. All approach information is not sent to the portable. So in my "upgrade" from a 300XL to the GTN650 I have lost one of my most favored features. I'm seriously considering now to restore the aviation out function back to the 300xl (which remains in my panel) as a second comm radio. The down sides are numerous...higher workload and updating of yet another database that I thought I could let go off.

Garmin's message:
Brief description of the problem:

Yes, we’ve had a lot of inquiries on this issue. Many Garmin panel-mount GPS units can be interfaced to Garmin portables for the purpose of transferring a direct-to or an active flight plan (including a loaded approach) to the portable GPS unit.

The interfaceability between GTNs and Garmin portables will not work as it has in the past with other Garmin panel mounts. The GTNs support more ARINC leg types than is supported on the other panel mount units. ARINC leg types (see http://wiki.aviation.garmin.com/wiki/index.php/Nav_leg_types for more information on leg types) that cannot be represented as a simple line drawn point-to-point from one waypoint to another cannot be depicted on the portable unit.

We know that this includes CA (course to altitude) and VA (heading to altitude) legs. There are other ARINC leg types that cannot be depicted as a straight line between waypoints and you can assume that these cannot be depicted either.

I’m not aware of any documentation claiming that the GTN-to-portable interface is supported but many dealers and operators will assume that the GTN does this the same as other series units.


My Response:

Whilst I appreciate your reply I am more than a little disappointed to say the least!

1. Gamin could do a far better job making this issue known to the aviation community.
2. By your own admission, there are numerous requests by users for clarification.
3. It is a very popular feature used by many.
4. By your own admission even dealers have this expectation.
5. The link that supposedly clarifies this issue is broken (as in the email below)
6. Whilst you state that nowhere in the literature does it state that GTN navigators will act in a similar manner to previous GPS panel mounts, and this is true, it is also true that nowhere does it state that this normal expectation has been downgraded.
7. Loyal customers deserve better from Gamin. It would not be so difficult to state this clearly so those choosing to do research before investing would be fully informed (and see #4 again!)
8. Even your own staff in technical support do not know the correct answer!! When I phoned about this problem I was told that what I was observing was incorrect. The current email now contradicts that statement.

9. Gamin could probably "fix" this issue with software updates to the GTN series. The fact that you have not seems to have been a design consideration that was not pursued. Why? Is it "impossible?" or just too hard?

There is obviously a lot of confusion about this. Honestly, had I known I would lose this function I might have made a different decision about the GTN650. Perhaps I would have saved up for the GTN750 due to the larger screen.... My though process was that I could be happy with the GTN650 "because" I could view the approach on the Gamin 695 large screen! I am now about AU$18,000 poorer and in some fashion feel as if I've actually downgraded my system....

I hope Gamin will consider what I have written.

[Tinstaafl]

Garmin are the bastards that refused to repair a non-WAAS 430 unless it was upgraded to WAAS. If we didn't upgrade the only other alternative was to buy a used unit that might fail anytime and without a warranty.

End result: The owner had little choice but to upgrade it to WAAS as well as the 530 unit so the two would continue to talk to each other, including replacing the aerials to WAAS compatible equipment.

The real bastard is that we don't even need WAAS capability in that aircraft.

Most peeved with Garmin, I am.