Is it possible to pass the ATPL subjects in the UK and do the practical training somewhere else?
I am looking for cheaper country that can also offer good training and Poland is one of these.

This has been discussed before. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. You have to contact each licensing authority and get approval from both the country where you will take the exams and where you wish to take the practical test. From what I have seen, it is possible, but not in all cases.

Zonda, how about Spain?

Spain has usually not accepted ATPL passes from outside of Spain. Someone on this forum said that they were recently told that they could do it, so I asked for a copy of the email from the Spanish authorities, and I have never received it.

"Jerry Lee"

I am wondering, as you seem to be looking all over Europe to get the cheapest training, how much do you think you are going to save going to Greece, Poland or some other country if you can?

Is it really worth all the hassle, I mean have you ever visited Poland! Lived there and know how it is?

I mean I seriously doubt you will be looking at some enormous savings, fuel and aircraft rental is expensive all over Europe, regardless. Going to some unknown school, without much reputation - no offence, but Spanish schools have a very bad reputation in the UK, and besides pretty girls in Poland, I dont see what else would be positive going there, and saving how much do you think?

Well, I gave a look at the prices on Ventum Air and Bartolini's websites and the cost are not that high! 11K euro for a CPL, IR and ME is not bad at all even with fees and rental for checkride not included.
And yes, I have been a few times in Katowice and Warsaw on holidays. If I were to do part of my flight training in Poland I wouldn't stay there for a long time and living cost are generally lower than the UK ones.

As for Greece, Egnatia Aviation is my greek choice. They offer accomodation in the price, the area is nice. What concerns me is the current economic scenario.

Very silly to be wasting your parents money at 19, especially when you think its a good idea to do training in Poland or Greece, there is a reason why they are so cheap....

What please!? I don't get what you mean.

You are buying professional flight training, so you have a chance to pass an assessment for a job later.

The level for having an airline job is much higher than CAA level to pass your IR.

You choose to find one backyard school that not many have heard of, and you should not take face value of what is quoted on a website with regards to price.

What is the quality of training, and how much did it really cost?

Many schools give quotes of minimum prices that sound very cheap, than things changes, and you need to pay more for various reasons, aircraft etc.

Not being funny, but as other said, there is a reason things are very very much cheaper in some of these countries.

UK is not to expensive, you can get your ME/IR, CPL and ME for around £22.000, if you do it in minimum hours!

Having looked at Bartolini website, I think you are missing some information, you say 11.000 Euro for ME IR CPL, why are they quoting 5600 EURO for PPL than?

That does not add up! Or what you think?
Radio English for 600 Euro, in the UK, max you pay for that is 100 Euro!

If you look at this link, you can see one guy is quoted £27.000 for whole package, not 11.000 Euro, this includes hours and PPL, however still your prices seems to be very dodgy.

I would be careful, as not all is always as seen in the glossy brochure.

However I assume you would need to do your ATPL in Poland or Greece, England is quite unique with allowing other ATPL's here, but other countries are not so flexible.

Also have a read of this PPRunE thread:

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/427928-ventum-air-merged.html

Do you really believe Ventum Air's quote of 11.000 Euo for ME IR CPL?

When it seems to be good to be true, it often is. Use PPRune search facility a bit more, or just write inn google any school, and PPRUNE, and you will find some peoples experience.

In the end, you will maybe save a couple of thousands, but the headaches against you will be more than the money its worth!

Is it possible to pass the ATPL subjects in the UK and do the practical training somewhere else?
I am looking for cheaper country that can also offer good training and Poland is one of these.

I think this reply (http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/481362-ir-cpl-training-places-uk-my-own-plane.html#post7119513) is applicable to here also.

I did some digging into this last year and found very few of the many FTOs around Europe doing an "English language" CPL/IR course, properly organised for "foreign" students such as Brits going to say Poland.

Which is not to say there aren't many; they just tend to not reply to emails :)

Also obviously possible in Poland;

- Fly in Poland (http://www.flyinpoland.com)

Hi ,

I also did some of my training in Poland.

The UK CAA accepts that the training and testing is done with them and will issue a UK EASA license if you bring the required paperwork (FTO approval, test rapport etc). Saves a lot of cash and you have nothing to do with the Polish authorities:D

I would for sure make you got confirmation in WRITING from UK CAA, it is very easy to setup a website with a few fancy blinking logos!

It is not a given, without written confirmation by the CAA in advance!

Exactly, get confirmation from the UK CAA before you start and check the FTO has all the paperwork in order. If you have confirmation from the UK CAA they cant backtrack when you collect your license :).

I mean I seriously doubt you will be looking at some enormous savings, fuel and aircraft rental is expensive all over Europe, regardless.

Ok, but there are a lot more variables involved. Landing fees, VAT, CAA testing fees just to name a few. The savings are substantial. For a JAA/EASA MEP+ME/IR+CPL in Poland you pay €15.000 (and my training was in brand new equipment), while in the UK that is at least €30.000. Maybe this is not a big difference for you but for me it actually made it possible to do my training in the first place. Ofcourse go and first check the place out before you start and check if the instructors speak English well and get references from current and former students.

Recently I was shown the program on offer from a company in Slovenia, and yes it "looked cheap"

But if you started to compare like for like, with aircraft type etc. during IR specially, it was not that big difference.

Instead of twin, they would use much more training in SEP, instead of MEP, and that was more or less the equal of the difference you paid / saved!

MEP+ME/IR+CPL, half price - sorry I do not believe ONE WORD of that! Not to be funny, but this kind of equipment does not cost that different in either Poland or UK!
Of course if you you 10 hours on SEP for your IR instead of MEP, you will probably save £2500 - £3000! That's what these so called "cheap companies" are doing!

Secondly, if your ATPL theory is done in UK, you are VERY limited with where you can do your training outside UK! Other countries are even more strict!

Ok just to counter, the place I did my training did not replace the multi with single and it is a full ME/IR course for less than HALF of what I was quoted in the UK. The ME/IR contains 17 hours on a new Tecnam P2006 with G950 and 40 hours Allsim200 FNPT II.Training in the UK is really just overpriced. I will sent you a PM link so you can check it yourself.

There is no "price list" on the website itself!

I wonder many times why companies if have such "great offers", why do they hide their prices and breakdown of course.

If you contacted them I am sure they will be happy sending you a pricelist. I have paid exactly what they advertised with and did find them spot on with what they quoted. Ofcourse if you want to stay in the UK and pay through the nose for your training , nobody forces you to look abroad. Everyone has their own strategy, with some just being a bit cheaper than others :ok:

So what did the ME/ IR cost you?

What did MEP cost you?

Finally what did CPL cost you?

I don't need it, I already have all I need!

I don't need it, I already have all I need!

I am sure. Congrats.

MEP 2500 Euro
ME/IR 8000 Euro
CPL 3500 Euro

And no, there were no extra charges, and yes, this included the testfees from the Polish CAA.

In my opinion the UK flight training industry is a "dead man walking". ATO's are strangled by government charges, there have been years of underinvestment, and most of the training will move to mainland Europe now that EASA is active. Beware of paying up front to any ATO, but in the UK in particular. Many are on their financial deathbed so you can loose the lot when paying up front if the place goes bust.

What aircraft do they use for CPL?

The Tecnam is a cheaper aircraft to hire than eg.the DA42.

Now for the ME / IR part, what was the price for the 17 hours and for the sim, if you split them up?

You saying the MEP was 2500 Euro, assuming that is minima, I believe 7 hours.
Which works out 2500 / 7 = 357 Euros per hour in the MEP.

Now you say in the ME / IR, you had 17 hours in the MEP, this alone, using the above pricing per hour works out to 6071 Euros, and so far not calculated for the sim time, which I believe was written 40 hours!

So I am very curious of what explanation you have for this.

2500 Euro for the MEP is more or less the same as most places in the UK!

Your assumptions are wrong, so is your calculation.

The MEP was 7,5 hours (6 training and I had 1,5 hours test) and the 2500 Euro included the testfee. The basic hourly rate I paid for the Tecnam P2006T (which was a 2010 with G950) was 290 Euro including all charges, instruction and landingfees.

The sim was 40 hours at 75 Euro per hour, and then 17 times 290 Euro again for the practical IR training (again on the Tecnam twin), plus the 75 Euro (!) CAA testfee makes 8000 Euro.

I cannot see why you are so bend on proving that it is impossible. Are you pissed off you paid too much for your own training? Really, with the fees the UK FTO's are charging they simply should be out of business. The UK will simply be a country that issues licenses, but where no training is done.

Voww.... seriously you have chip on your shoulder mate, are you working/promoting this Polish outift?

hm.. Ok I actually got an airline job, so I don't need to worry about what I paid in the past.

So rental for the MEP was 290 Euro, and sim 40 Euro, and also these prices included an instructor too? So what was he working for, peanuts and monkeys?

Just wondering how 75 Euro an hour in the sim, incl. instructor, that borders on P2F instructor salary! Love it, don't really need to pay pilots on any level, neither in the training or with the airline jobs!

Sorry matey, your maths are not adding up, not that I care, I know Adria in Slovenia, similar prices as Poland, and even they can not do it for that price as you quote.

Than again go ahead, not my problem, I already got a job with the training that I chose myself, and which I am very happy with, both quality and price was good for me.

High standards, not integrated, modular - UK schools have very high standards, thats why people come from all different parts of the world to train there!
They have a good common sense / practical "flying mentality" regarding training, unlike some schools you see in Germany, Switzerland etc., who adapt military super-man style training methods!

By the way MEP is exactly 7.5 incl. test fee for me was around £100 to the instructor, nothing else besides that. So your test fee equalled around 325 Euro.
290 Euro x 17 = 4930 and sim hours incl. instructor 3000 Euros!

Now I wonder what quality instructor you must have had to work for that kind of pay????
Very interesting! But sorry not for me, even if it meant saving 15.000 Euro, I would not have wanted to apply for a job with a Polish Aldi licence, sorry!

You asked me what I paid so I did, and you wanted to know the exact fees so I gave them to you. No chip, just sharing my experience so others can benefit too.

Word of advice, cheap does not mean it is good!

Your ME/IR CPL, is the minimum basics you need to know, but is not at a level required to get a job with an airline.

So take short cuts on your initial training, it might come back to bite you later!

Are you from UK?

Now I know if I go to Aldi or Waitrose, I can buy a piece of beef at both shops, the difference might be that I pay £1 for a kilo with Aldi, and at Waitrose I pay £6.

If I buy both to compare, I will discover there is a massive difference in taste, and sometimes I will rather pay more to get better quality, than less just to short change myself!

I don't think you can have people running down the Polish schools, no offence, not saying they are bad, but.... We will see, let me know when you had your first interview, tell me than what you think of your quality of your training!

The sim instructor was a Wizz Air A320 captain. He has 7000 hours and he taught me a lot what to expect at interviews.

I do not think that because you pay more you are guaranteed better trainining.

truckflyer, why is it so hard to get your head around the fact that many things are more expensive in the UK due to salaries (still low for what they are), fuel cost (taxes), admin aka racket fees and charges - CAA and airports, passing on CAA's fees and other running costs.
The list goes on. Oh, and talking about IR training, go compare, go compareeeee. Go compare the VAT and FI inclusive SIM prices between UK and some other countries, as an example.

I can do FI rating (fixed wing), pretty much all in, in reasonably priced FTO in Czech Rep for 2-2.5k gbp or EUR less. OMG, must be crap, you're saying. Well, not really.

This is not promoting any Poland based schools, just pointing out the fact to some people stubbornly blindfolded/opinionated.

There are some threads where Whopity and BillieBob pointed out the EASA 'advantages', well, amongst ver few, of being able to do practical tests anywhere in Europe in the system. I'm sure they can point you in right direction (of regs). I'm sick of reading the regs and got so much more to 'self-study'.

Oh, just read your longer post, TF. I think my post would seve something positive others, not you as I think you're lost case. Calling other countries' FTO's producing 'Aldi' pilots/licenses, is just xenophobic. I, for one, only want to do some fun GA flying in the UK and would rather not add insult to injury, trying to do UK CAA's issued licenses at the cost as they are.

You know why people go and train int he UK from countries instead of USA or AUstralia etc? Because they don't strictly need best value/money, got rich daddies, or are sponsored by military forces or governmentrs or airlines, so they don't care, again.
I call it snobbism, going to UK purely because the licence has 'more twang/zing/whatever' to it than equivalent JAA/EASA one at similar/same level of proficiency/standards.

No it's not about any of that.... yawn.............

Honestly I could not care less, I am not going to spend any more money on flight training, ever.....!

But it is better to go with a proven concept, than ....., but up to you, if you think that is the way, try!

a proven concept is also signing up for overpriced integrated courses.
Regardless of country, although you seem to carry extra measure of 'British pride', TF.

Does it mean we all have to/should do so?

I have never talked about intergrated, myself I did modular in UK, and was very happy with it!

For me personally, it was the cheapest option of all!

Let's get it straight, if people come here to get advice regarding aviation career, I seriously doubt somebody here with some credibility and experience would encourage people to go and spend XX.XXX thousands of pounds, at an unknown school - where they are an unknown quality!

Does not mean the school is bad, I know of a guy who went to the US and did his IR there, and never learnt to fly an NDB approach, he spent 25 hours in the sim just for that, maybe he was the exception, I do think he was, however there are plenty of stories of people travelling abroad, trying to "save" some many, and it ends up more expensive in the end!

If you save 10.000 Euro, but the training is of unknown quantity/ quality, you are going there as a guinea pig, and will only know how good or bad it was when you go to an interview and do your first sim check!

I also know that doing it this way has never been straight forward in the past, and I am not convinced it is as straight forward as some are pretending it is in this post!

In the great scheme of things, 10.000 Euro savings, is not that big a deal in this business, because you want to make sure you have a solid platform that will make you perform good enough to get a job!

I know one guy, he went to "save" money on his MCC, he went to Hungary, think it was Cavok, and when he later went for line training, he was told the MCC was not valid, as was done in Hungary, and he had to go to Berlin, spend £2500 more for another MCC!

I have heard and seen many such stories, than again, maybe this happen to this people because I am Xenophobic! By the way, I am not even English!