View Full Version : Working in scandinavia with a UK ATPL
30th Mar 2012, 16:51
Is there anyone out there that has worked in Scandinavia(Danish, Swedish or Norwegian registered aircraft, OY,SE,LN) with a UK issued JAR-FCL ATPL license. Have you encountered any problems/difficulties. I know that Thomas Cook used to send FO:s to Thomas Cook Scandinavia to do flights out of Sweden.
30th Mar 2012, 17:27
There are no problems. We have crews and aircraft out there most of the year. As long as its a JAA licence not a UK national licence then you will be fine.
30th Mar 2012, 18:23
Quite the oppersite in fact. Everything not a problem to be honest including using local TRE's and AME's and the UK CAA accepting the paper work afterwards.
30th Mar 2012, 18:23
Are the aircrafts scandi registered under a scandi AOC ? And if you don´t mind could you please pm me for more details.
Thanks ever so much
30th Mar 2012, 18:25
HI MAD JOCK
Have you flown in scandinavia with a uk ATPL license ?
30th Mar 2012, 18:31
Norway, Sweden and Finland.
Last LPC was with a Swedish TRE, I have a UK ATPL. And in fact he did the same day for another UK pilot a LPC for CPL -> ATPL upgrade which the UK CAA accepted which he wouldn't have been authorised for if doing his own CAA's pilots.
There is also no problems at all with doing type ratings there either.
30th Mar 2012, 18:43
Hi Mad Jock
Thanks for your help. And the flying has been done on scandi registered A/C:s ?
30th Mar 2012, 21:47
We have English pilot with UK JAA licences flying our aircraft and local registered ones. They are a JAA state. There is no problem. I have done skill tests for Norwegian and Swedish pilots. I will be out there end if next month working.
Nie the price of beer is another matter..... £8 a pint!
31st Mar 2012, 02:03
Yep I have swapped between all three reg's in one day all on the same AOC.
As bose says the cost of living is the only issue working.
31st Mar 2012, 06:06
I am actually swedish and unfortunately aware of how expensive the beer is. . . .my problem is that I have been with two very big uk operators flying scheduled flights out of LGW and LHR the last 8 years and have got a UK JAR-FCL ATPL license.
I am now, due to personal reasons, to fly for a scandinavian airline as a copilot and I have been cleared by the swedish CAA to fly on swedish, danish and norwegian registered A/C:s as a copilot only with my UK license. All well, at least until the danish CAA stepped in and told me that I am under no circumstances to fly on a danish registered A/C with a UK ATPL, not even as a copilot. I can fly if I change it back to a UK CPL license. This is absolutely ridiculous and I do not for obvious reasons want to give up my ATPL license.
Advise anyone ?
31st Mar 2012, 09:02
I don't think you can change it back even if you wanted to.
I haven't flown danish reg aircraft but I have heard they can be a bit of a old boys club and very protective making it hard for none danes to work there.
31st Mar 2012, 12:29
OK, can we have a terminolgy check here. Is this a UK licence issued in accordance with JAR FCL and contains the section inside that by virtue of JAR FCL1.15 the priviliges can be excercised in any member state or are you referring to an older UK issed ATPL issued in accordance with ICAO?
If it is a JAA licence then they have to accept it. If it is a UK CAA ICAO licence then you are peeing in the wind. However you can convert a UK CAA ICAO licence to a JAA FCL licence and thus an EASA licence by paying the dosh to the CAA.
If they are refusing to accept a JAA licence then you need to contact the flight standards guys at EASA and ask them to intervene.
31st Mar 2012, 14:16
I have flown for a Swedish airline with my UK issued JAR-FCL ATPL for the last 6 years (as PIC). There have never been any issues with the licence.
31st Mar 2012, 14:44
Its not the swedish that seem to care its the Danish.
I believe its something to do with the fact that the ATPL in the UK is a relatively simple procedure of get the hours do a sim check get the TRE to tick and sign and then send money in with the form.
The Scandi countrys its quite a bit more involved with a seperate sim session with an NAA TRE and aural exam and some more hoops. Also the year cost of maintaining licenses and ratings is significantly more than a UK license.
It seems the ATPL upgrade is a tidy little earner for the old boys club.
I don't think they have a leg to stand on with a JAR license but it all depends on how they have bought into JAR regs they may have differences filed.
They French can be a bit awkard as well with UK ATPL's flying F reg's commercially.
And being swedish and not having a swedish license might not be doing you any favours
31st Mar 2012, 14:56
Why not just change your state of licence issue to Sweden? As you are Swedish this shouldn't be a problem. Denmark is the only country that seem to care, the Finnish and Swedish CAA's are happy with JAR-FCL ATPL's.
In Sweden they want the ATPL to be issued as part of a command course. That said, if you already have an ATPL, they should issue one based on that if you change your state of licence issue to Sweden.
31st Mar 2012, 16:41
Having a JAR licence doesn't neccesarily give you automatic rights even in a JAR member state! The french will not accept it and you still need a validation. Where is EASA on this?
I am interested to know how you can fly a foreign registered a/c on a domestic licence though as that is (should be) not allowed without a validation.
And what's this about type ratings? I cannot use my domestic licence to do a type in Sweden can I?
I shall be seeing the CAA this week to clarify.
Oh and beer is pricy... In the wrong places. Some bars £2.50 and still £1 down the offy! (systembolaget)
31st Mar 2012, 17:07
The UK hasn't issued none JAR licenses for years.
There are how ever a sub set of license holders who converted an ICAO with the UK and are meant to be G reg only but i haver never heard of any of them having any problems flying other regs.
Type ratings are what ever your NAA will accept. It just so happens that the UK will accept any JAR approved course and examinors as long as you back it up with copys of all the approvals. So you send in a copy of the sim approval, the TRTO and the TRE exam auth and they will process it.