flying in Germany - any advice

[poptones]

In a few weeks, I am going with a friend who is a PPL holder around France, and Germany.

I have found some French websites for notams, weather, airspace restrictions including military zones.

Could anyone offer any advice about flying around Germany. Am keen to know what its like, how easy it may be, what to think abotu re planning ahead, any websites for vfr flying, weather, notams, etc.

thanks

[BackPacker]

It's easy. Not a lot of quirks. Langen Info, Bremen Info and such will give excellent service. Almost everybody on the radio will speak English to a sufficient degree, although for the smaller fields you might want to make/download a crib sheet with the German circuit phrases ("Gegenanflug" and so forth).

Loads and loads of gliding going on though. Might want to watch out for that.

[achimha]

This site is good for NOTAMs: VFR-Bulletin by DFS Deutsche Flugsicherung GmbH (http://www.vfr-bulletin.de/web20/index.htm)
It's the official site so by entering your aircraft ID, you have proof that you received the briefing.

You will notice that Germany does not have a lot of restrictions and NOTAMs rarely contain anything of interest. In general, it's very easy. Airspace E up to FL100 (FL130 near the Alps), a few C/D around the large airports and a couple of restricted areas. Not the 4-dimensional maze that you find in France :)

One nice thing about the NOTAM site is that it allows you to overlay the NOTAMs on the official ICAO map in great resolution so you can study the map.

A good flight planning site (German language only) is FL95.de - Die kostenlose VFR-Flugplanung (http://www.fl95.de)

For PIREPs on aerodromes, go to eddh.de - Landeinformationen (http://www.eddh.de/info/landeinfo.html)

Weather requires a paid subscription but you can use any weather site in Europe or for the deluxe service, you call the official German aviation weather service at +49 1805 250124. Within Germany, you have to call 09001077225 which is expensive but when calling from abroad, you get the same service almost for free :)

PS: Don't be afraid of airspace C/D or crossing airport control zones in Germany. Just ask FIS, most of the time they will get you a clearance. Frankfurt is probably the only exception.

[iwrbf]

Hi,

I second Achim's post.

A nice site for a first glimpse about airports in germany is

AIRPORT Flughafen Flugplatz Pilot (http://www.airports.de/component/option,com_mtree/task,listcats/cat_id,8/Itemid,72/lang,de/)

Kind regards,
Peter

[mad_jock]

Don't eat the black bread not only does it taste bloody awful.

It will also give you a night on the guiness movement about two hours after you eat it.

My advise is to cut out the middle man and just flush it straight down the bog without digesting it first.

[hvogt]

This site is good for NOTAMs: VFR-Bulletin by DFS Deutsche Flugsicherung GmbH (http://www.vfr-bulletin.de/web20/index.htm)
It's the official site so by entering your aircraft ID, you have proof that you received the briefing.Nice site, but it doesn't seem to be available in English.

For filing FPLs and getting NOTAMs in English see here (https://secais.dfs.de/) (also by sole German ATC provider DFS).

[poptones]

amazing advice, i really did not think that the online community would rally round and offer advice. My friend suggested that I try this forum. He is not very technical. nore am I but, its wonderful to have a community sharing ideas, experiences and knowledge. The idea on day 1 is to fly egtc to reims. Reims to strasbourg, then onto the border of Switzerland, opposite zurich for the night. day 2 is flying up the east of germany towards berlin, then finish off somewhere northwest but south of holland. day three is crossing into belgium, route to ostende to clear customs and finally back to cranfield.

we are planning a day in hand, incase the weather stops us flying. Someone said that you can buy a voucher where can pay 1 fee and land at loads of airfields.. is this true?

will be doing reports from the air during the tour and taking photos and videos..once again, forum, thanks for your help.

[172driver]

+1 for Achimha's post. Very pleasant place to fly.

Will you be entering from France or the UK? If the latter, you'll need immigration on arrival. A great place to do this is Siegerland / EDGS. Haven't been in a while, but when I was there last they had a great setup, almost like in the US with crew rest rooms, a very good restaurant and incredibly friendly. Need PNR for immigration, though, check their website.

[jamesferns]

Beware of the hun in the sun:eek:

[poptones]

we plan on stopping in Reims, France to clear customs, then head towards Strasbourg to cross into Germany. I guess we should file a flight plan in Reims via Apex?

[Piper.Classique]

You can use Olivia to file from France. It's run by the SIA (service d'information aeronautique) and there will be a terminal at the airport, or you can do it from any web access you can find (aeroclub, your laptop or ipad, etc) any problems there will be a free phone to the tower at larger fields.
I don't know about landing vouchers, but the landing fees in Germany are pretty low.

[Dan Dare]

In a world where we are all used to plastic covering everything Germany stands out as being rather hard-cash based. Quite eye-watering to fill the tanks only then to find EC Card (a German only throw-back) or cash:eek: They are slowly getting more 21st Century about this, but worth checking first.

ATC is great and very helpful; food is great - even the black bread, which is worth processing first; too many sights to see - I don't know where I'd start, but I'm told Koblenz airfield is worth a night-stop.

[Billredshoes]

but I'm told Koblenz airfield is worth a night-stop.I can seconed that great airfield and a great views of the rives meeting nearby.

[Rory Dixon]

There are two different sets of landing vouchers, one for the south, the other for northern fields. You may find some info here (http://www.airshampoo.de/udpage.php?&slid=1&pageid=50), unfortunately only in German. The vouchers are valid until end of 2012, and you may visit the participating airfields up to three times.

[thing]

Don't forget they fly on the right.

[poptones]

Will they have cash machines at the airfields to get euros or is that wishful thinking. We are taking a c172 with long range fuel tanks. Will need Lots of cash to fill up..:{

[achimha]

My close associations in Germany indicate MWST is the driver for that, just as elsewhere when the taxes are extreme. Cash plus spoilage makes the world go around.

MwSt is just VAT and I very much disagree. Only once, I did not get a receipt for my landing fee and that was a very small grass airstrip operated by a club where the statement was "there is no landing fee but we wouldn't object to a small donation for our club".

Also, I have never paid for fuel in cash, all aerodromes I've come across offer payment via credit card or at least Maestro/EC. Some of them charge a fee for credit card payment. Maestro cards are very widespread in Europe. If you plan your fuel stops at public airfields (Verkehrslandeplatz), you can expect credit card payment.

[Asrian]

-Yes, at most smaller airfields in germany You'll need cash to pay for gas and coffee. Hotels in bigger cities normally accept CCs.
-Lots of gliding activity at smaller airfields, especially on saturdays and sundays.
-lots of wind power plants and during the week on days with fine weather some occasional VFR military jet low level flying in north-western germany (military low level flying zone), so better stay 2000" or above. :)
-check for latest airspace changes at Berlin because the new international Berlin Airport is nearly finished and is scheduled to open this summer.
-You can find articles on most german airports and airfields on the english wikipedia website as well.
-there's an iphone/ipad-App called "VFRiNotam" for Notams

Have a great flight! :)

[ITSAB]

I can also say +1 for Achima's post.
Good thing no A or B airspace to worry about.
Smaller airfields will not have cash machines, and some of the larger ones may also not have them easily accessible if you are airside.
Avgas is about € 2.60 a Litre at the mo :*. So yup a C 172 with long range tanks *ouch*
Enjoy your trip, the south of Germany is a nice place to fly over.

Regards

ITSAB

[Vlad the Imbiber]

Reims (Prunay) has no customs. And Reims Champagne (military) has closed for good.

[lederhosen]

One thing I would strongly recommend is talking to the appropriate flight information service. Whilst the airspace is not complicated there are an amazing number of airports with jets flying in and out. Having personally had numerous resolution advisories with light aircraft whilst following instrument approaches in my 737 I can speak with some experience. The light aircraft can be completely legal but at serious risk of being run down by a jet. If you are not familiar then atc will steer you around giving warnings of potential conflicts. They provide an excellent service.

[172driver]

Reims (Prunay) has no customs

Just gotta love that name. Dani's new venture ?

;)

[Jan Olieslagers]

For those interested in German R/T, a nice sketch with some basic circuit calls has surfaced in Querabflug im Funk? - Allgemeines & Aktuelles - Ultraleicht Forum - ulForum.de (http://www.ulforum.de/ultraleicht/forum/1_allgemeines-und-aktuelles/2388_querabflug-im-funk)

[poptones]

oh thanks, where apart from Lille then would be a good aerodrome to clear customs in France? doh..even calling Prunay they said, sure, you can clear customs here

[Jan Olieslagers]

Le Touquet and Calais seem obvious to me. Also, Troyes Barberey has been recommended on these pages.

Or, if France is not an absolute requirement, you could consider Ostend and Kortrijk in Belgium.

[letpmar]

I think you have the advice you need and I agree that having done a lot of flying in germany is very stress free. My only bit of advice is to call ahead and be sure you know about any restrictions on the airfield. Some places close for 2 hours or so at lunchtime (a noise thing) and some are only open one day. I got cought myself last week. We landed at EDQH on a saturday and where asked for our noise certificate. The Sportcruiser does not have a NC and they where fine but the next day we where refused landing there as you have to have a NC to land on a Sunday. I will ask the question next time. Every cloud has a silver lining though, we had a great Italian on the saturday at EDQH and diverted to EDFO on the Sunday and found a delightfull airfield on a hillside with great views and a wonderfull resturant. I will do a trip there again (you do need 100 hrs to land at EDFO) and uphill I would not want to be in a tired aircraft close to MTOW. I have all the airfield plates for Germany and most of the maps if you need to borrow anything.

Pete
07976 262833