Why won't the CAA issue me with a licence?

[Seven Oh Seven]

Just received this from the CAA:

"Thank you your recent application for the grant of JAR CPL (A) with IR (A).

Your licence application has now been assessed and we can confirm that the documentation submitted does not satisfy the standards required to fully complete the process for the following reason(s);

· The IR application form has not been submitted. I have attached the correct application form (SRG1161) that will need to be fully completed and returned to this department. Please complete sections 1, 2, 3, 5 and 9. The holder of a current and valid Military Green (unrestricted) IR (A) is required to complete discretional training sufficient to passing the IR skills test. Therefore section 6 will need to be fully completed by your training provider.


I have attached the application form SRG1161 below."

I'm confused! :ugh:

I have completed all 14 theory exams and an IR Skill Test on an RAF King Air (45 Sqn). Why on earth do I require further training from a civilian FTO?

The deadline is now imminent (even though my application arrived at the CAA on 6 Mar). I know there is huge expertise out there on this forum, so I'd be grateful for any help. In the meantime, I'll carry on wading through LASORS to work out what's going wrong...

Thank you.

[raytofclimb]

Welcome to the battle against the faceless robots in Aviation House.

My application bounced recently because I hadnt included the SRG1161, it's very common as on the main form you tick the box "I want an IR on my CPL" but it doesn't say anywhere you need to include a completely different form too.

Although I had gone through a civ provider, LASORS only says with a mil IR you just need to pass the civ IR. The robots wouldn't have this so I had to get my FTO to fill in the right bit of the form and sent it in. I also have a colleague who didn't fill in that bit and he still got his license.

However, since you probably didn't have an FTO you can't do this. Is the Kingair on the LASORS list of approved ac? If so this should be obvious. I suggest you fill in the SRG1161 as best you can and email it to them (FAO your case officer if you know the name) and explain why you don't have an FTO. NEVER use or expect common sense, these people don't negotiate and won't discuss it in person. It's infuriating.

Good luck!

Ray

[Seven Oh Seven]

CW, Ray,

Thanks for the replies. I can now see in LASORS, Section E - Credits from IR(A) Training, what the CAA are on about. But it really doesn't apply here as there is no FTO! The application process should be a simple well trodden path; there have been many others who've completed an IR Skills Test on military aircraft.

Thanks for the reassurance that the mistake lies with the CAA. After a year of Bristol GS and a bucket full of cash for the IR Test, I'm just a little twitchy that 8 Apr is not that far away. Well, the CAA has banked my application money... now it's time they put my licence in the post!

[RandomBlah]

707,

I had exactly this problem when I applied for my license last year. Just fill in the form they require with "not required due to military accreditation" in the section about the FTO. If necessary, refer them to the licensing flow diagram in the relevant appendix of section D- there is no mention of a need to attend an FTO in your scenario. You can fax this form off rather than post. I'd see you at work on Monday but i'm on leave.:ok:

[A and C]

I tell all the military guys who are getting civil licences that they are starting a " long war" don't expect any quick victorys with CAA FCL, you just fight guerrilla actions untill they give up and issue you with a licence.

The engineering side of CAA FCL is run with a great deal more common sense that the pilot side, I know that some engineers will find this hard to swallow but this is one of the few places were the ground engineers get a better deal !

[NutLoose]

Agreed with above, call them, my first EASA Eng conversion licence was wrong and it took 4 attempts to get it right, my latest renewal is also wrong on one type, will sort that on Monday, they are very affable engineering wise, and a phone call can sort things quickly or clarify things.

[fantom]

the faceless robots in Aviation House.

It's known here as the Belgrano.

[Seven Oh Seven]

Vigilant Pilot,

Thanks for the tips. My application was on an SRG1130 and included an SRG1119! Of course, I also included all supporting evidence, signed, stamped... Who knows how they work or what random assumptions they make?! They will be receiving a fax and telephone call first thing on Mon. They might have been busy in the Licensing Dept, but clearly not so in the Cashiers; they had no problem processing my payment for the licence weeks ago. They also like their locked PDF application forms, which is really helpful when they'll only accept PDF attachments on email... EASA could well be a step forward after all! Once again, thanks to all for the assistance, esp. CW.

[NutLoose]

Nothing new there, some of the Engineering ( I think it was the permit renewal ) forms on the web to download actually had sample written across them on the PDF and that obliterated some of the sections you needed to fill in. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

They produced a servicing schedule that instructed you to alter it to suit the particular aircraft, but locked the PDF so you couldn't..

Believe me, nothing EASA is better...

[BEagle]

I learn from a friendly, well-placed Belgranist siurce that there are currently over two hundred military licensing applications being processed....

Doesn't say much for the current state of the UK's Armed Forces really, does it?

:(

[Halton Brat]

A Vetinary Surgeon in south Wales who was almost permanently in Court against the CAA (Piper Cub/low flying/unauthorised landing sites et al, ad infinitum), once famously descibed the CAA as a "Devil-worshiping cult" on his personal website, until a Judge took a dim view of it.

This gentleman was in the habit of conducting his own defence in Court, which often drove the Beak to a state of apoplexy. During lunch break at yet another of his appearances, he made a Citizens Arrest of the CAA's Barrister (for allegedly attempting to pervert the course of justice), & marched him off the the Police Station. In another Court-room drama, he was in the witness-box & took a dislike to the CAA's lady brief and her line of questioning; he advised her that he could turn her upside-down & use her as a money box - this, he opined, would at least render her of some useful purpose. Result: Contempt of Court & a trip to the cells.

And so it goes on (and it still goes on, actually!).

HB

[Chris Griffin]

I don't think you can infer anything from the number of applications currently being processed. Primarily people have tried to dodge the EASA changeover bullet combined with the uncertainty in waiting to find out if any negotiated military accreditation will replace the current allowances.

A huge amount of my Sqn friends have attained their quals in order for the little blue book to take up space in their back pocket.

The job market certainly isn't what it was 12 months ago - but a blue bit of insurance hurts nobody.

Well done everyone who pulled their finger out - a huge ball-ache of a procedure complete.:ok:

[NutLoose]

The CAA don't know the words "pocket edition" the FAA do credit card sized licences, the CAA one I struggle to get in the glovebox, let alone a pocket.

[Lima Juliet]

Nutloose, you need some of those jeans that the 'Yoof' of today wear; you know baggy crotch, pants on show and pockets the size of wheelie bins; CAA issued licence not a problem!

:ok: