EK New Routes (2012-13)

[anjoby]

Hi everyone! I'm opening up this thread because after going through the pages I found out there's none at the moment so I decided to just make one.

Anyways, would anyone happen to know about EK's new routes for 2012-13 operation plan? I would also like to know if Cebu is included in the plan list or is it being eyed for future routes because of unconfirmed reports that are circulating here that EK could possibly take up the slack as the result of QR ending its DOH-CEB route this Saturday 26th March. With QR packing up, CEB's lone connection to the Middle East & Europe will greatly affect the southern islands of which CEB is the main hub.

also, there are unconfirmed reports about EY and GF mounting flights to CEB as well.


Thanks

[akerosid]

I don't think CEB is included in EK's plan, as it is primarily a low yield route. The most likely option for CEB is an interline with either PR or Cebu Pacific at MNL?

EK has been pretty busy with new routes this year. IAD has just been announced and will be the third new US route this year, after SEA and DFW.

Two new European routes have also been added - DUB and LIS (the latter starting later this year).

There are likely to be more added, with at least one further route to the US.

[chinapattern]

EK are also launching BCN in July and re-instating SGN.

As for future destinations ARL and WAW are the obvious European candidates for me and ORD in the US.

There have been rumours in the past about them starting BOG. As EK only serve three South American destinations (GRU, GIG, EZE) I wander if that might be their next market to conquer. I could see BOG, SCL and perhaps CCS coming online.

[GMC1500]

I know some of the ones you guys mention because I've flown there, but for the sake of simplicity could we use city names?

[Wycombe]

Let me do that for you - no doubt someone even more geeky than me will come along to correct if needed:

BCN Barcelona
SGN Ho Chi Min (code comes from when City was known as Saigon)
ARL Stockholm (the airport is called Arlanda)
WAW Warsaw (Poland)
ORD Chicago
BOG Bogota (Columbia)
SCL Santiago (Chile)
CCS Caracas (Venezuela)
EZE Buenos Aires (airport is called Ezeiza)
GRU Sao Paulo (airport is called Guarulhos)
GIG Rio de Janeiro

[Bartek]

On the subject of new EK routes, it seems a new UK destination could be on the cards:

In the U.K., where Emirates serves London Heathrow, Birmingham, Manchester, Newcastle upon Tyne and Glasgow, there’s the possibility of it adding a further destination which “could be north of the border or further west,” he said.

Emirates Says (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-21/emirates-says-whole-load-of-airlines-will-fail-in-fuel-squeeze.html)

Sounds like EDI or perhaps BRS, CWL or BFS.

[anjoby]

@akerosid: thanks for the response.

well, CEB currently has international airlines like Cathay Pacific, Qatar Airways (until 26th March), Korean Air, Asiana Airlines, Tiger Airways, Silkair, Air Busan, Jeju Air and Jin Air and local airlines like PR, 5J and 2P which offer international flights to SEA as well. When QR departs, CEB will no longer have any direct flights to the Middle East & Europe which is more convenient for OFWs and western tourists.


anyways, thanks!

[Swedish Steve]

ARL Stockholm (the airport is called Arlanda)

and the airport code is ARN.

ARL is the name of the nearest VOR.

[chinapattern]

Sounds like EDI or perhaps BRS, CWL or BFS.

Shame Emirates didn't opt for the 787 as I think it would have allowed them to launch routes like this and other secondary cities where the 77W is simply just too much to begin with. It would also allow them to fly longer and thinner routes to destinations in Latin & South America. If demand grows then routes could still be upgraded, but with the A330's going they're going to have to go big from the very start.

[Buster the Bear]

500 additional pilots being recruited which is staggering!

[MerchantVenturer]

Sounds like EDI or perhaps BRS, CWL or BFS.

If it was a case of Bristol or Cardiff, even though the airline might believe that BRS was the better commercial bet if it could operate from there I don't believe it could take a B777 with full payload to Dubai.

Its 2011 metre runway perched over 600 feet up in the North Somerset mountains might be a nasty shock to those used to operating on the wide-open, sandy spaces of the UAE airports.:ooh:

Happy to be over-ruled by those whose technical knowledge is far greater than my almost non-existent grasp of the subject.

[crewmeal]

Sounds like EDI or perhaps BRS, CWL or BFS.

If it were Filton then there would be no problem, especially as A380's have visited.

I will never understand why Lulsgate Farm was ever developed into an airport. But that's another story.

[Callsign Kilo]

You'd never get a 777 out of BRS. Not with the loads EK needs.

BFS is a lost cause; people can travel to DUB. EDI is too close to GLA, which will see two services daily on occasion. As for CWL, who knows?

[Tableview]

They have recently commenced service to Harare. Plenty of opportunity there as Air Zimbabwe recently went into liquidation, lots of traffic between GB and ZW and no direct flights now, also that nice Mrs. Mugape needs to travel to Dubai to buy her designer clothes.

[MAN FLEX 99]

I would guess EK will add 3rd daily BHX or possible look at STN for UK expansion.

[learjet50]

Think u will find it to be Cardiff
No other airline of EK s Size is in there yet

I am sure EK will be most welcome at Cardiff the way things are there

[falconeasydriver]

The logical next UK destination would be STN

That will please all the ex MOL drivers here, they can nip down to Storty for a pint:E
Or better yet go and see Jamies mum and dad at the cricketers for an overpriced pub lunch:}

[No RYR for me]

Shame Emirates didn't opt for the 787 as I think it would have allowed them to launch routes like this and other secondary cities where the 77W is simply just too much to begin with. It would also allow them to fly longer and thinner routes to destinations in Latin & South America. If demand grows then routes could still be upgraded, but with the A330's going they're going to have to go big from the very start.

The issue is not filling them so much. It is enough gates at DXB until the new airport opens so they prefer the biggest aircraft possible to make the most out of the current infrastructure.

[Joe Curry]

Sounds like EDI or perhaps BRS, CWL or BFS.

Don't rule out ABZ...

[pwalhx]

I am puzzled why STN is a possibility, why operate from a third London airport, I would have thought an additional Gatwick frequency would be preferable to them.

[pwalhx]

However Stansted does not have a good record of retaining its long haul scheduled services, I appreciate EK may operate with a different business imperative however I still fail to see the need to operwte from 3 airports in the South East.

I agree a third BHX flight would be a good option for them however as you say their sights seem to be elsewhere. Will be interesting to see what they pull out of the hat.

[Skipness One Echo]

EDI is likely in the medium term, United offer both GLA and EDI on long haul so it's not unheard of. BRS would be served on the A332 before CWL, mind you they fly to NCL so all bets are off. The must serve more airports in the UK than anywhere else surely? STN is unlikely as it adds nothing that an upgauge at LGW can't do better.

[WATABENCH]

BRS is not a complete lost cause, lets not forget EK have 70 A350's for order with first due for delivery 2014.
Correct me if I'm wrong i'm not a technical wizz, but is the A350 not a similar size to B787 and therefore would not have issue's with the short strip at BRS? especially considering TOM manage to get a full 767 to SFB every week in the summer direct, which is a longer distance than DXB.

[DCS99]

Re:

Let me do that for you - no doubt someone even more geeky than me will come along to correct if needed:

BCN Barcelona
SGN Ho Chi Min (code comes from when City was known as Saigon)
ARL Stockholm (the airport is called Arlanda)
WAW Warsaw (Poland)
ORD Chicago
BOG Bogota (Columbia)
SCL Santiago (Chile)
CCS Caracas (Venezuela)
EZE Buenos Aires (airport is called Ezeiza)
GRU Sao Paulo (airport is called Guarulhos)
GIG Rio de Janeiro

Good info, but I don't quite believe BOG in Colombia and Caracas on business and logistics grounds.

Have you tried plotting a Great Circle route?
My computer says DXB-BOG is 8478 miles. Would that be the longest B777-300ER route in the world?
Please correct me if I'm wrong!

[flying officer kite]

Interesting that the article suggests that Emirates are looking further North or West.. Its a well known fact that Belfast have been looking to secure the 'Middle East' route for a long time.

The route would never compare with the big ones in England, but a lot of people from NI do travel worldwide on Aer Lingus and BA codeshares, Flybe and AF/BA/and the Middle East lot, BMI and Virgin/Star Alliance etc etc so id say they would feel the pinch as business is taken away.

Even look at Dublin, only started recently, and already about to get the 777 upgrade

[Richard Taylor]

As Joe says, don't rule out ABZ. Management have said they would love a Dubai route.

Last year they secured Baku & Frankfurt, so you never know.

Just sayin'............. ;)

[PPRuNe Pop]

'Advertising' these routes is essentially just that. Just be aware that advertising is not allowed but routes are - a fine line - just be sure that you know which side of the line you and we are.

[chinapattern]

Good info, but I don't quite believe BOG in Colombia and Caracas on business and logistics grounds.

Have you tried plotting a Great Circle route?
My computer says DXB-BOG is 8478 miles. Would that be the longest B777-300ER route in the world?
Please correct me if I'm wrong!

I'm not exactly sure myself but I think a 77W would definately be pushing it both distance and capacity wise. IMHO a 787 would be great for EK to open up DXB-CCS, BOG, SCL and even perhaps the likes of Salavador and Montevideo if they were to really push into South American market.

[Fairdealfrank]

Perhaps BOG as an extension of DXB-CMN - same distance.

EDI is unlikely to become an EK destination:
(1) TK have beaten them to it (similar business model, they start in July);
(2) it's probably more cost effective to expand GLA services.

[Skipness One Echo]

EDI is unlikely to become an EK destination:
(1) TK have beaten them to it (similar business model, they start in July);

If Emiratesd turned up, Turkish would be gone. You are comparing small apples with an enormous orange bent on world domination.......

[CaptainDoony]

Why Stansted? Why would EK operate out of a low cost hub? Would there not be very limited connecting traffic from a LCC hub?

I would say the only airports that would be considered in the UK now would be:

BFS (most likely IMO)
EDI
CWL
BRS
ABZ (Hey I can dream :))

[billyg]

There is little or no chance of UAE at EDI. The opportunity was there , but the second that UAE awarded the 2nd daily service to GLA , EDIs chance was gone , probably for ever !

[crewmeal]

As I see it the problem with further expansion of EK into the regions may well dilute passenger figures on established routes that they have built up. I can't see CWL & BRS being served as there isn't sufficient numbers in that area unless they provide a twice weekly service. I'm pretty sure EDI could be well served but at the cost of GLA expansion. The only feasable route would be from BFS, again on a 2-5 weekly basis. Again are there sufficient numbers in that area?

[Fire_fly]

I personally find BFS really difficult to get to, I have only used it twice (years ago for charter flights) and I live halfway between DUB and BFS. It would take a lot to make me use BFS, and I know a lot of people who live on the border countries who feel the same, they rarely use BFS over DUB.

Apart from Paris, Amsterdam and Newark every other international route is a bucket and spade route. So I can't see a daily DXB working, may a twice weekly or something.

[North West]

As I see it the problem with further expansion of EK into the regions may well dilute passenger figures on established routes that they have built up

But from the UK, Emirates are competing with anyone offering non-stop or one-stop services to anywhere East or South or the Middle East. You posted on the BHX thread that LH are growing their traffic feed from the midlands to China, India etc, so not a huge leap to realise that EK view this as traffic they could be winning.

[MerchantVenturer]

I can't see CWL & BRS being served as there isn't sufficient numbers in that area unless they provide a twice weekly service.

I'm surprised that you say this - Emirates seems to be performing at least satisfactorily in the North East at Newcastle.

BRS is the third busiest regional airport in England based on passenger numbers after Manchester and Birmingham. It could be fairly pointed out that this is primarily based on low-cost airlines but that's true of many regional airports.

The city region is one of the country's most prosperous and economically successful and the South West is the third busiest user of LHR after the South East and East with 3 million travellers originating or terminating in the South West with another one and a half million through Gatwick (2010 figures - most recent CAA survey).

South Wales is also a significant user of the London airports.

All this suggests that there would be a sufficient catchment in itself but I agree there could be dilution of Emirates routes from Heathrow and Birmingham and even from Gatwick, and that because of this the airline might well decide that South West England/South Wales is not near the top of its pecking order given that people from there seem content to use their London and Birmingham offerings.

So far as BRS is concerned it seems to be accepted that it couldn't handle a fully-laden Emirates B777 anyway - not sure about the A330 or when this aircraft will disappear from the Emirates fleet.

Incidentally, wouldn't the runway length restriction also apply to Aberdeen? I believe it's slightly shorter than BRS's 2011 metres.

Finally, I wonder if too much is being made of the Emirates president's remark in an interview with a financial journalist. He used the word 'possibly' - many things in life are possible but unlikely.

[Oldtimer1]

crewmeal- I think your forgetting they serve Newcastle daily with the 777. Thats 428 seats there and back every day. Who would have thought that just a few years ago. Even when Emirates started the route with the A332 many said the route will never last and look at it now.

I think that EDI will be served in the not to near future, its not impossible to serve both and they dont want to leave the market to others.

Belfast is a definite as APD is lowered, it makes it competitive. Dont forget also Belfast is one of the few 'regional UK' cities that has sustained a New York flights.

For the South West, well who knows. From Bristol you can get to Heathrow very quickly, the same really from Cardiff. I wouldnt rule either out mind.

[smith]

ABZ makes sense, I would imagine a lot of high yield oil related business between the two areas???

[crewmeal]

crewmeal- I think your forgetting they serve Newcastle daily with the 777. Thats 428 seats there and back every day. Who would have thought that just a few years ago. Even when Emirates started the route with the A332 many said the route will never last and look at it now.

Not just yet - from 01 Sept 2012.

[Donkey497]

I would imagine a lot of high yield oil related business

Sorry to dissapoint, but in the oil business, the last thing you see, unless you own the company is a high price air fare.:(

Standard operating practice, unless the Client is paying directly for your flight, or you are 10 hours+ in the air & straight into work is the cheapest possible refundable econonmy class ticket. Speaking as someone who got to platinum frequent flyer with a legacy carrier on a single route inside 12 months. Every single flight then was cattle class & every time I do the route now, it's still cattle class.:*

The oil business travel between Aberdeen & Dubai will not justify the route. If it did there would have been a daily direct flight between Houston & Aberdeen years ago.

[Aksai Oiler]

I completely agree, lowest economy fare is the typical oilfield fayre.

Can't see Emirates plonking a 330 or 777 onto that tiny runway at Dyce - maybe if they did a deal with PrivateAir and used a 319. The long and short of it is that I don't believe Emirates could make it work to Aberdeen.

[CaptainDoony]

ABZ will never happen - but the "lowest economy fare" could still produce a decent yield - just check out Azerbaijan Airlines prices for a ticket RT to Baku :eek:.

Also that route has low pax numbers but I bet the holds are packed with cargo (fair amount of cargo flights from these kinds of areas as well).

But yeah... ABZ is just a dream for me:sad:

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "If Emiratesd turned up, Turkish would be gone. You are comparing small apples with an enormous orange bent on world domination....... "

Skipness, take your point, it could be bloodbath with TK at the rough end, there's probably not enough traffic for both, especially with EK well established down the road at GLA. TK appear to have adopted the EK/EY/QR business model and is expanding, but they've may have left it too late.

Remain unconvinced that EK will be at any new UK airports for the forseeable. They have most of the country pretty well sown up so expansion could be at the expense of their existing offering. EK is already at more airports (6) in the UK than any other country (outside the UAE) except India. Not going to happen.

Oh dear, hope these words don't have to be eaten in 6 months time, otherwise indigestion could be on the cards.