2 year degree!?

[hatallas]

Hey all,

Well, I couldn't really find any other part of the forum to ask, so I will do it here.

I have it all, FAA and JAA fATPL, Type rating, currently working has an FO.
Soon I will have enough hours to unfreeze the ATPL. But that won't be enough.

A lot of ''Major'' airlines are now asking for at least a 2 year degree, in any field.I have quiet a bit of free time in-between work days.
So I was thinking about getting myself that 2 year degree online.

I started searching the internet, and there are so many schools and different degrees available.
I was talking to an other FO that found a school, that gave him credits for having his pilot licence and fATPL. Unfortunately I didn't get the name .

Any help, or tips on finding a place to do this online?

Much appreciated guys! :ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

So far as I know, the only airlines requiring a "degree" are the US carriers - UK and Europe couldn't really care less, they only want to know if you can fly and fit into their team.

In general terms, post A-level, the qualification timings look roughly like this:

HNC - 2 years part time

HND - 2 years full time

Foundation degree - 2 years full time (similar to HND, but slightly differently structured)

Bachelors degree - 3 years full time

Bachelors degree with honours, depending upon country, either 3 or 4 years full time

Masters degree - either 4 years full time (MEng), or 1 year full time (UK, post Bachelors degree), or 2 years full time (most other countries, post bachelors degree)

If you are simply trying to tick the box of having a minimum 2 year degree, then in the UK you want a Fdg, or one of the equivalent qualifications from US colleges. Pick a topic that you will find fun.

If you want a genuinely meaningful qualification that may have some value in your future career, then I really would not touch a Foundation degree. Do a proper Bachelors, ideally with honours.


If you weren't working at the moment, then there are loads of good universities - pick one!

Because you are working and want to do something part time, then I should look in the UK at the Open University or in the USA at Embry-Riddle. ERAU in particular specialises in aeronautically oriented degrees, but both will offer a wide range of interesting academic stuff to study. In your position, I'd look seriously at management subjects, which might be helpful if considering a future move into airline management. Or, just something you'll enjoy and find personally rewarding, whether that's ancient Etruscan, or Aeronautical Engineering.

I would have serious reservations about any course that accepts ATPL passes towards an academic degree, they are just totally different types of education and anybody who thinks that they map to each other, just doesn't understand the question.

Best of luck, and by all means PM me with specific questions - I'm quite active in the academic world, as well as the aviation one.

G

[Mike.Park]

Hatallas, get in touch with your nearest college or university. Many traditional universities have learning departments/schools dedicated to 'life-long learning' (adult learners) where you can earn a degree on a part-time basis.

Some institutions offer part-time degree courses where you can also be awarded interim qualifications along the way like a CertHE or DipHE in your chosen subject area. These are stand-alone qualifications in their own right and can help with career progression.

[Tankertrashnav]

I am afraid I have nothing constructive to contribute, hatallas, but the title of this thread caught my eye and I thought it a suitable forum to mount one of my hobby horses.

Having undergone intensive training as a navigator in the RAF, I was astounded at the contrast in the level of work required when I studied for a degree at a "good" English university in my 40s. It struck me that the 3 year course could have easily been contracted to two years. The ludicrously long vacations which are there theoretically to enable academic staff to pursue their research commitments are in most cases an excuse for lengthy holidays, whilst the leisurely teaching commitment on a weekly basis would be the envy of any school teacher. Both staff and students conspire in the lie that the three year course allows for time for "reflection" when in fact this translates as more time for boozing and sex.

Now I'm not against boozing and sex, hedonism is very pleasant, but at least there should be a two year alternative leading to an honours degree offered to those students in a hurry who are willing to get up before midday and put the hours and the effort in.

[Genghis the Engineer]

The University of Buckingham is a private university in the UK who, quite legitimately, condense the 3 year BA/BSc to 2 years with no significant breaks. The majority of staff there are pretty much unemployable anywhere else because they have no research profile, but I've never heard anything bad about the quality of their undergraduate teaching.


Workload is an interesting question. I can only speak from my own experience. As an undergraduate doing aero-eng 20+ years ago I was averaging around a 50 hour week. This (after 5 good A levels, well okay, 4 good ones and one bad one) earned me a 2:2. Yes, I did my fair share of wenching and drinking at the time as well! After all, at that stage of life, you work, sleep, and have fun!

Years later I became a university lecturer (also teaching aero-eng). I was reckoned to be reasonably good at it, and still do a little bit. The workload was quite staggering - I *mostly* managed to avoid working weekends, but not always - the rest of the time about a 60 hour week was pretty normal, occasionally peaking to nearer 80. Students were, as you'd expect, pretty variable - but the ones actually getting anywhere were also putting 50+ hours per week in and many postgrads failed miserably to cope at-all, particularly if they had come from overseas and had no concept of independent study (rather than memorise and examine in the US / asian model).

As a lecturer I was entitled to 6 weeks leave a year. I don't think that I ever took my full allowance, nor did any of the other good people. Stroll around most University engineering departments about 7pm and you'll find about half the offices still occupied.

On the other hand, when I was an undergrad, I knew some utterly bone idle (mostly humanities) students putting a few hours a day in and spending the rest of their time in the bar or at various hobbies, and I also have seen a few lecturers whilst doing the job myself who did take a holiday through the summer instead of working on research and course management. Their colleagues know who they are, and they are generally totally unpromotable. Sadly, not many of them get sacked either, but they quietly get sidelined away from anything considered important and usually teach the unwanted basic theory courses and get sidelined into managing the crap jobs like exam supervision. If they fail to publish enough research papers, then they *might* get let go - weeding out poor university lecturers after they've finished their probation is very hard sadly.

G

[Fostex]

Indeed, as Genghis points out, workload at university is heavily dependent on subject. Vocational subjects like engineering, science, medicine and law will mean one is virtually living on campus in the latter years of one's course. 40-50 hour weeks of lectures and labs are common, even more of private study and course work.

I did an EEE MEng and in the final year was very much under the hammer with multiple projects and lectures. However the chaps studying joke subjects like humanties and leisure management had all the time in the world. These topics could undoubtedly be taught in a year although the poor souls taking such subjects would collapse under the pressure.

Having said all this, learning required for the ATPLs is a totally different ball game to a university education. I would say the ATPLs are perhaps most similar to post-university professional exams that might be undertaken in a variety of professions.

[clkorm3]

Hi, i studied Law LLB (hons) whilst still working 30hours per week in evenings. there is plenty of workload but it is managble. I used to be at Uni 3 days a week for lecture and seminars and that varied between 3 to 5 hours. However I used to put in extra 2 hours a day from monday to friday just recapping what I have been studying so i can have full weekend off which i did, i managed to do it for the course of 3 years and obtained 1st class division.
And if I can anyone can. But it's not easy. You just have to be disciplined about it.

[gorter]

You don't "need" a degree to do anything, apart from a few obvious exceptions such as medicine, engineering, architecture etc. I got one (and that's underselling myself slightly, because it was hard work) to differentiate myself from the pack, and I couldn't find a flying job at the time (early 2000's).

I went in as a mature student, and it was a bit bittersweet. In my mid twenties I wish I would have gone when I was 18, but my attitude to work when I was 18 meant I would have maybe just scraped a pass which Is meaningless in this day and age. I had to put in the hours of self study and research.

Instead graduating at 27 I got a 2:1 from a very respected university, and 5 'related' job offers within days of graduating and a flying job which I'm still in now.

If I were unlucky enough to no longer be able to fly at least I have work experience and a good degree (not golfism or whatever) to fall back on to feed my family and live the life I am accustomed to.

Is a degree essential, not in the slightest, but I'll remain convinced forever that it was a bloody good idea (I also learnt that my parents were right)

Edited to add: you really can't compare writtens to a degree. They are a completely different kettle of fish. Yes in ATPL you're in a very intense learning environment, however you're spoon fed everything you'll ever need to pass. In a degree you're expected to think and probe and analyse and come up with your own answers.

[CruiseControl_007]

Ditto gorter.

Have to agree 100%. I got a degree in computing and worked for a couple of years as a contractor which allowed me to not only save a lot of money for training but also gave me an immense amount of life experience as I was living away fom home at the time.

As has been mentioned previously a degree is not essential but can prove to a future employer that you are a determined individual. Besides the aviation industry is a fickle one and you'll never know when it might change so falling back on something outside of the aviation industry is well advised.

[Flaymy]

Most universities manage to squeeze a two-year arts or humanities degree into three years. However anything scientific, in order to learn enough to structure your knowledge then learn how to research then actually do a small original-research project (the basic structure of a true degree) three years is minimum. As standards of school output have fallen my alma mater has increased most science and engineering courses to four years.

So if you find anything, go for a light subject.

I personally would apply for different flying jobs. A degree is not going to help your flying. Go for GA. I don't know many people in any positions in GA with degrees.

[Tankertrashnav]

I do agree that those involved in maths/science/ technology courses certainly have a heavier timetable than so called "arts" degrees.

However not all humanities courses are a doss. I did a joint honours BA in French and Russian, in my case learning Russian from scratch, which was a fairly heavy workload. Even so I still reckon the work could have been achieved in 2 years (plus of course the compulsory year abroad which forms the part of a language degree course).

Things have changed a lot since I got into aviation. In 1964 5 'O' Levels (including maths) were all that was required to get into the RAF to train as aircrew, and in fact that was all I had. I did however always feel at a disadvantage alongside those who had degree or at least 'A' level maths and sciences.

Mind you 'A' levels meant something then, but that's probably for a different thread!

[Pittslover]

I would be interesed in a 2 years degree which you can do by distance learning after gaining the forzen ATPL.

Something not to expensive and fast i only need it to tick the box. Any help would be appreciated.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I would be interesed in a 2 years degree which you can do by distance learning after gaining the forzen ATPL.

Something not to expensive and fast i only need it to tick the box. Any help would be appreciated.

Then just buy a certificate from one of the numerous "degree mills" around the world, pretend you have a degree, and show the integrity that your post implies.

G

[mad_jock]

Go and do a proper OU degree or the like or don't bother.

[Pittslover]

Please people dont come with this moral argument to me without knowing the circumstances.

It is a requirement in my country to apply for a pilot job. The window can be closed very fast thats why iam asking for the fastest way. I would lose a huge opportunity if i miss that out.

For now the only interest i have is flying!

Is there a aviation foundation or associate degree which will give me credit for my ATPLs and not to expensive?

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've got a degree but could never be bothered to do the professional licence exams. Can you advise me of a school that will give me credits towards the ATPL for having an engineering degree, because I'm really too lazy to work properly and show the commitment to my studies that an airline is really looking for.

G

[Halfwayback]

Pittslover

I wish you every success in your search - good luck

HWB

PS Could you ask them if they will give me a Masters in cognisance of my full ATPL, 12,000 hours and being a TRE? It would a great tick in the box!

[Pittslover]

Ok, i got it. Now i will go in a quite corner and think long and hard about my misbehaviour.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Pittslover

I wish you every success in your search - good luck

HWB

PS Could you ask them if they will give me a Masters in cognisance of my full ATPL, 12,000 hours and being a TRE? It would a great tick in the box!

Interesting thought, would my PhD give any significant credit against the IR do you think?

(I was, incidentally, offered some credits against the instructors course for being a qualified university lecturer - I thought about it then decided that I'd rather do the whole course as otherwise I might miss something important. I think I was right.)

G

[mad_jock]

I believe through the cross over bollocks halfway that a TRE is worth though cross over vocational credits a HND which means you can get credit at second year level as long as you have 2 years worth of study left.

Which means a one year left on wank courses and two years on arts courses and full term on academic courses THAT'S THE FULL LOT ie ATPL is worth **** all.

The whole list is on the OU web.

You should maybe PM groundloop they have manged to get a wanky Bsc past faculty board with zero content in anything academic. You might get by by showing your knob in leister square as a group project or something equally academic and get a BSC in aviation mangement.

[Pittslover]

To be honest thats exactly that kind of thing i was looking for thanks for the halarious post mad jock.