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View Full Version : Your thoughts on Firecrest Aviation?


ee59
17th Mar 2012, 11:24
Dear all,

I live in Hertfordshire and looking to start PPL training. The nearest airfield is Elstree and I was thinking of doing my training with Firecrest Aviation. However, as I am completely new to this field I am looking to get opinions from more experienced people.

So is Firecrest Aviation a good place to do PPL training? Are they reliable? How are the instructors? How are the aircraft?

Are there better alternatives around the same area?

Your advice would be much appreciated.

Regards,
ee59

A and C
17th Mar 2012, 23:16
They have been around for years.

They don't have new aircraft.

They dont have young instructors dressed like Argentinian admirals.

You pay as you go.

All in all they are honest guys who are pepole trying to make an honest living by providing a good service, I have done business with them and it was an uneventful transaction.


Now if you want a real jucey story about dishonesty, unclear pricing, restrictive practices and contempt for the customer then you could have gone to another local training providor but they have gone bust taking a lot of people's money with them.

dkatwa
18th Mar 2012, 10:27
I learnt at Firecrest and got my PPL in June 2010. Honest and friendly bunch. They are not hour- builders and they have other jobs too, so they teach because it is a passion for them.
There is a Pooleys store on site too and a nice cafe so, even if the weather lets you down, you should be able to enjoy the other facilities.
Planes are C152/C172, although I think they have a Grumman now too
Give them a try...!

clkorm3
18th Mar 2012, 10:33
Two guys that did the PPL with me at the start of this year transferred from there to BCFT and managed to get it completed within 8 weeks that includes all the seven exams and nearly all the excersises for the PPL as they was with the school for a quite a long time and didn't manage to get anywhere and was messed around. Personally I have had no dealings with them and my opinion is based on others experience. I would recommend BCFT bcos if you plan to go all the way then most definatly bcos they train you with all the skills required for being successful commercial pilot.

thing
18th Mar 2012, 11:24
I would recommend BCFT bcos if you plan to go all the way then most definatly bcos they train you with all the skills required for being successful commercial pilot.

I was trying to think of a pithy comment but I think I'll just let the quote stand on it's own merits....:)

Steevee
18th Mar 2012, 16:35
You asked about alternatives to Firecrest. The Falcon Flying School is newly established at Elstree, so you could make enquiries there too. Ask in the Aerodrome Cafe or their office premises next to Pooleys.

x933
18th Mar 2012, 16:53
I flew with firecrest when I lived in London. Never had a problem, instructors were friendly and knowledgeable, if you are looking for a club rather than a school then it's ideal - I enjoyed my time there.

ee59
19th Mar 2012, 09:54
Thanks for all the replies.

I suppose the fact that Firecrest don't have new aircraft isn't necessarily a problem as long as they are well maintained?

Thanks also for the comments on BCFT although it wouldn't be convenient for me to go there. Also I don't really intend on getting a CPL (though I did consider it at one point).

niallg123
19th Mar 2012, 12:49
I have done all my flying through Firecrest, from trial flight to license, when I lived in Hemel Hempstead.

Not only are they helpful and knowledgeable, they are encouraging too. I had an instructor that would bend over backwards to answer any questions I had.

I fully agree with x933 - the atmosphere is a great especially to learn in.

Flying wise the aerodrome has its quirks, but that only makes visiting other fields easier.

trident3A
19th Mar 2012, 14:36
I got my PPL with Firecrest and still fly with them - really nice guys, they won't rip you off.

Genghis the Engineer
19th Mar 2012, 15:38
I suppose the fact that Firecrest don't have new aircraft isn't necessarily a problem as long as they are well maintained?

The vast majority of flying schools use somewhat elderly aeroplanes (for that matter, so does a fair chunk of the Royal Air Force).

If aircraft maintenance is done properly, it is not an issue. The elderly but effective C152, C172 and PA28 are all excellent training aeroplanes, and the mainstay of flying schools the world over.

By and large, maintenance is always done okay to good in the UK, and unless there are specific concerns being raised anywhere, I wouldn't worry about that.

It is embarrassing that most people nowadays are learning to fly on aeroplanes older than they are, but it's only embarrassing, not unsafe. If it troubles you, take up microlighting where the flying school aeroplanes are usually much newer (but neither more, nor less, safe by and large).

G

(Hired an aeroplane from Firecrest a couple of times a year or so ago, found them a fairly typical - safe and competent but not exceptional - flying school.)

Matty906
22nd Mar 2012, 20:30
I note that they are looking for investors on their club website which suggests they need money? Mind you what flying club doesnt need money.

Hired an aircraft from them last year whilst down in the smog (God I hate London), and whilst it was okish, it had more in-op stickers than I care to remember, and was just generally tired.

It also cost a bloody fortune to a northern tight arse like me!

I kind of suspect that after the olympics there may be less choices of flying schools around to choose from!

AndoniP
23rd Mar 2012, 10:57
I've not been to Firecrest, so can't comment on their school.

I'm flying with Falcon at the moment. Great set of instructors, very knowledgable. The aircraft that I've been in (just the Avgas PA28s) are slightly tired but work fine. Fleet is PA28, DA40, Rockwell Commander and SR20. I'll be training on the DA40 soon, and currently doing my night qualification.

At Elstree, night flying training is only performed on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings and the schools have to arrange fire cover etc.

Depending on where you live in Herts, you could also give Stapleford a go, or North London Flying School in Welwyn GC.

Genghis the Engineer
23rd Mar 2012, 15:55
Depending on where you live in Herts, you could also give Stapleford a go, or North London Flying School in Welwyn GC.


I must admit, I've found Stapleford a lot less hard work to get in and out of than Elstree which is surrounded by a lot of difficult connurbations and airspace. No reflection on any training provider, but I think that you'd get better value out of your flying hours there.

G

essouira
6th Sep 2012, 22:00
post withdrawn as it seemed to upset others

rgsaero
7th Sep 2012, 06:54
I think it's highly irresponsible, and very possibly actionable - libelous - to make such suggestions as that above.

I have no connection whatsoever with Firecrest, though I know then through AOPA; when last talking to them - three days ago - everything was fine.

Before posting such rumour why didn't you or your "friend" - who as he USED to hire from them ring them up and ask before posting and thereby creating alarm among others?

Vone Rotate
7th Sep 2012, 19:56
Give Ches a call at Fly Elstree. http://flyelstree.co.uk/
He took me through my PPL in 07 and can't recommend him enough. He taught me a lot about flying and gave me a good solid foundation to build my professional aviation career on. He now runs his own school and seems to be doing well.
I'm now an instructor myself!

AC-DC
7th Sep 2012, 20:37
Cool down my friend.

500 above
2nd Oct 2012, 16:26
Has anybody been to Firecrest today? I for one hope all is OK with the business.

niallg123
2nd Oct 2012, 16:44
Can I ask why?

Steve6443
2nd Oct 2012, 16:48
Two guys that did the PPL with me at the start of this year transferred from there to BCFT and managed to get it completed within 8 weeks that includes all the seven exams and nearly all the excersises for the PPL as they was with the school for a quite a long time and didn't manage to get anywhere and was messed around. Personally I have had no dealings with them and my opinion is based on others experience. I would recommend BCFT bcos if you plan to go all the way then most definatly bcos they train you with all the skills required for being successful commercial pilot.

Reading a post like that reminds me of a favourite post I once read:

Yesterday I couldn't spell "ingeneer", today I are one......

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Will Hung
2nd Oct 2012, 18:48
Elstree which is surrounded by a lot of difficult connurbations and airspace. ]

Isn't that a good thing ?

146fixer
5th Oct 2012, 14:52
Just checked the Firecrest web site and it says they are no longer trading as firecrest they are now trading as Starsfly Elstree. I was a member (very briefly) of the starsfly flying group which was run by the CFI of Starsfly. Thought someone might be interested.

trident3A
5th Oct 2012, 16:00
That's a shame - nice guys.

BroomstickPilot
4th Jan 2013, 17:15
Hi Guys,

I have just learned that the Firecrest Club, (a well regarded low-cost outfit at Elstree that had been around for ever,) is no more but would appear somehow to have morphed into Starsfly.

I don't understand the mechanism by which this has taken place. Has Firecrest been bought by Starsfly? Or has Firecrest gone bust and their assets been acquired by Starsfly?

Is Starsfly a club or an FTO?

What have been the personnel implications for instructors etc?

Just what has happened?

Would somebody please be kind enough to give us the whold nine yards.

Regards,

BP.

MrAverage
6th Jan 2013, 09:41
Broomstick Pilot

This extract from the Fly Elstree website should answer at least one of your questions:

Firecrest Aviation No Longer Trading?
Back in the summer, due to the continued decline and subsequent financial implications at Firecrest, their most senior instructor joined us. He also added both of his aircraft to the fleet. We are therefore extremely pleased to send a very warm welcome to John Baines, he’s very experienced and simply one of the best.
Some two months later Firecrest finally closed it’s doors. As a result, since John joined, several other fine ex-Firecrest instructors have migrated, along with many ex-Firecrest flying members and student pilots. We send the same warm welcome to all our new faces, including several new students and flying members not connected with Firecrest.
Current Instructor List (Alphabetical Order)
John Baines (Most days except Saturday)
Phil Cawthorn (Weekends)
Ches Cole (8 days a week)
Simon Johnston (Most days)
Richard Laughton (Saturdays)
John Salem (When available)
John Stevens (Most days)
Rich Taussig (When available)
Julian Waterworth (Sundays)
Kieran Williams (Mainly weekdays)






What's most surprising is that it took nearly 3 months for someone to post this question and indeed none of those who paid up front have posted.

BroomstickPilot
6th Jan 2013, 11:49
Many thanks for that link MrAverage.

Much obliged.

BP.

Aspiring ATPL
5th Mar 2013, 08:05
Looking at this thread, I thought I could shed some more light.

Firstly – Firecrest is not liquidated and has never gone into bankruptcy. The company still exists, but is not trading.

Firecrest had financial issues since February last year. For a while and mostly throughout the Summer Firecrest was negotiating with potential investors and entered into discussions about rescue package.

After some due diligence it became apparent that it would not be possible to rescue Firecrest and finally the airfield management asked Firecrest to cease trading.

Which is shame, as Firecrest was really nice and friendly club. Malcolm (the founder of Firecrest) did not take this fall so lightly.

Stars Fly was founded independent of everything else and were given trading rights at Elstree.

Stars Fly Flying School at Elstree started trading at the beginning of August, but formally moved into the current premises at the beginning of October

Meanwhile, some of the Firecrest ex-instructors saw the ship was sinking and made their moves. Some stayed on right to the end and then decided to join Stars Fly.

As for the link between Firecrest and Stars Fly, appears it went something like this,

From what I've heard, Malcolm approached Stars Fly some time in September and suggested that whatever resources could be rescued should be transferred over to Stars Fly.

Most of the students (including myself) were notified by letter some time in December, also the rescued resources were transferred to Stars Fly. In exchange Malcolm took senior position in Stars Fly as Head of Operations.

So, in a sense, Stars Fly picked up the things where Firecrest has left them.

The staff instructors that moved over to Stars Fly,

Malcolm (now Head of Operations)
Mike (now CFI)
Robin (also examiner)
Stojan
Naeem
Jackie
Dan
(new joiner - I've never seen him around though) Julian

jxk
6th Mar 2013, 07:32
What lessons have been learned by the Firecrest staff about running a flying club that can be passed onto Stars Fly so that they don't go through the same trading problems?

arrowflyte
9th Mar 2013, 08:33
What lessons should be learnt?
As a former instructor at Firecrest I would recommend that students should avoid paying up front for flying lessons - you can never be sure of the company's financial security and so risk losing your money, as some Firecrest students will testify; and instructors and suppliers should make sure they get paid in full on a monthly basis for the same reasons.

trident3A
9th Mar 2013, 09:06
There was a pretty bad few years back there with the volcano, Olympics and the general economic malaise - Firecrest certainly weren't the only operators to go under!

jxk
9th Mar 2013, 12:30
As a former instructor at Firecrest I would recommend that students should avoid paying up front for flying lessons - you can never be sure of the company's financial security and so risk losing your money, as some Firecrest students will testify; and instructors and suppliers should make sure they get paid in full on a monthly basis for the same reasons. Very true for students, renters and suppliers but how could the Flying Club (Starsfly) be run more efficiently to avoid the trading problems that Firecrest encountered?

john baines
9th Mar 2013, 20:23
Firecrest took its assets to Starsfly without notifying or paying its many creditors. According to Companies House it has not ceased trading and one of its Directors has Court Orders served on him.

essouira
14th Mar 2013, 00:19
I raised questions about the financial problems in Firecrest some months ago.

"rgsaero" then posted a heavy message suggesting that I was being libellous so I deleted the post.

It is now clear that students and aircraft owners have lost money.

Where is rgsaero now ? Will he or she do something to help the people who have lost money as they continued to trust Firecrest because people did not alert others to the problems ?

It all seems so unfair.

arrowflyte
16th Mar 2013, 16:20
This link seems to shed some further light on the current status of Firecrest:

https://www.duedil.com/company/01906857/firecrest-aviation-limited

n00bie
13th Jul 2013, 09:39
What's that [stars fly]'s tripacer that crashed at elstree a few weeks back? colours looked the same