MOD's missing equipment rediscovered.. [Archive]

BEagle

15th Mar 2012, 08:25

I recognise one or two items from my days in the school's CCF Signals cadre! The microphones and headsets, for example.

Nevertheless, why it wasn't either sold or recycled must be a bit of a mystery.

It reminds me of the time a number of zero-time crated Derwents were found in the depths of some RAF MU - which were gladly snapped up by the Meteor flight at RAF Brawdy, or so the story went at the time.

But the boot was on the other foot if ever you were accused of still having kit which had been returned years earlier, or for which there was no actual need. About 15 years after the last Gnat had left RAF service, I was still being plagued to return a Gnat oxygen mask and Gnat turning trousers, whose return some stores numpty at RAF Valley hadn't recorded.... Fortunately a friendly Flt Sgt solemnly issued me with a couple of 'scrap' labels which satisfied the system...:\

racedo

15th Mar 2012, 08:49

They could at least be sold at airshows as "Nostalgia" items that someone with more money than sense could acquire.....:rolleyes:

ex-fast-jets

15th Mar 2012, 08:57

I am told you can sell anything on e-bay!!

Dunky

15th Mar 2012, 11:57

I am told you can sell anything on e-bay!!

Like someone selling a choice of four Venoms, complete, at £12,500 each, also selling three ISO containers of serviceable spares, and four serviceable Ghost engines!

Warmtoast

16th Mar 2012, 00:23

There are some vacuum tubes (electronic valves) shown in one of the pictures in the link.

Depending what type they are, the sort of thing Bletchley Park Museum and their technicians who reconstructed "Colossus" would have given their eye teeth for.

althenick

16th Mar 2012, 00:38

This actually has given me a flash back to the Time when I joined Mod(N) at Faslane.
I, Being a Telecoms Engineer - was heavily involved in the replacement of the 1200 line Electromechanical Telephone Exchange to the new - but now defunct - Digital System. As Faslane required more Phone numbers than there were lines, the short term fix was to piggy back small - but very new and expensive - telephone systems onto the main exchange. When the new system came in these small systems were eventually replaced by single lines. What happened next was instrumental in me leaving the MoD.
By my conservative reckoning at least £30,000 of the taxpayers loot was wasted. These Systems - some less than 3 years- old were "D83'd" this was a destruction notice. I pleaded with the boss to let me store them as they could be used elsewhere. NO CHANCE, The systems where destroyed. The next Financial Year I was tasked with buying 3 Bespoke (Expensive) BT systems at a kings ransom. It almost made me cry. :(

NutLoose

16th Mar 2012, 01:56

Not all the stuff that gets dumped is erm sensible, apparently some one has informed EOD over this

Weedon Royal Ordnance Depot-Northamptonshire 2011 (http://www.urbexforums.co.uk/showthread.php/13906-Weedon-Royal-Ordnance-Depot-Northamptonshire-2011)

http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff406/skeletonkey1/Weedon%20Royal%20Ordnance%20Depot/PICT0359.gif

Yup you guessed it..

http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff406/skeletonkey1/Weedon%20Royal%20Ordnance%20Depot/PICT0362.gif

L J R

16th Mar 2012, 23:18

The discoveries by Nutloose makes for a 'cracking' stunt at bonfire night...just throw a box or two onto the fire........
no just kidding! - Do not try this at home kids.

AGS Man

17th Mar 2012, 10:40

I remember some years ago going into a small storage shed at a South Wales MU and finding bags full of horseshoes!!! Also I'm told that in the 1950s a group of National Servicemen at Cardington were told to clear out a building and burn, smash and bury everything within. This included 4 complete crated Sopwith Camels!

BEagle

17th Mar 2012, 11:10

Back in the 1960s, it was finally agreed that our CCF's ancient 'Switchboard, Universal Calling, Ten Lines' which dated back to the First World War would be replaced by a more modern 'Switchboard Magneto Ten Lines Mk2' of either Second World War or Korean war vintage. It was much smaller than the old UC10.

At about the same time, the physics syllabus was updated to include the study of radioactivity. This included a number of low grade radioactive sources and a Geiger counter, to demonstrate the effect. The sources came with dire instructions and were always kept locked away.

New toys were often demonstrated on Speech Day, as was CCF equipment. A physics master happened to be passing our 'new' SM 10 Mk2 with the Geiger counter in his hand when it went nuts. The readings were much higher than anything obtained from the official radioactive sources!

It was later discovered that the the SM10 had luminous labels next to the jack sockets, so that it could be used in the dark; these things were highly radioactive and an urgent call went out from Blandford for all such items to be returned asap.

I wonder whether they are quietly irradiating some buried site deep in the rural countryside?

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU

17th Mar 2012, 11:38

some less than 3 years- old were "D83'd" this was a destruction notice.

Pedant mode engaged; a Form D83 is not a "destruction notice". It is a Base/Depot Stores Return Voucher; the civilian equivalent to a Navy Form S331. If the stores had been returned as condition A1, Servicable, they may have been repacked and taken on charge as stock. Conditioning used stores is not easy, though and not always safe. If the stores had been returned in condition E0, they might have been held as repairable stock. If the stock would then have significantly exceded the the recurrent Monthly Demand Rate, though, it would probably have then been gashed in a routine Surplus Stock Review. I am, of course, assuming that the kit posessed a valid Pattern/Stock Number. Pedant switches to "off".

It's often held back, come in handy, kit that turns up in the likes of the subject pictures.

Dunky

17th Mar 2012, 11:54

It was later discovered that the the SM10 had luminous labels next to the jack sockets, so that it could be used in the dark; these things were highly radioactive and an urgent call went out from Blandford for all such items to be returned asap.My guess is that it was radium, (Alpha radiation), that was used, which used to be used on watches, clocks, aircraft instruments and switches. This used to be painted on by hand by women. They were encouraged to straighten their paintbrushes with their teeth, and even used to paint the stuff on their teeth and face. The inevitable outcome wasn't pretty and resulted in a lawsuit against the company who employed them. All the management and scientists had taken considerable precautions to protect themselves from the effects of radiation, yet took no action to protect their employees.

Radium was replaced by tritium, (Beta radiation), which is still used in some watches, but many companies have replaced it with Superluminova, or Lumibrite for Seiko, Citizen etc.

The advantage of radioactive luminosity is that it does not require an external light source to activate it, it will glow by itself. Other lume requires to be exposed to an external light source to be activated, and depending on what type, and how the lume has been applied, will determine how long it will glow without further exposure to light.

PS. Sorry for the lesson in luminosity, horology is a bit of a hobby of mine.

cornish-stormrider

17th Mar 2012, 22:13

Dunky, I nominate you for this weeks Sheldon Cooper award for Geek of the Week.

Informative but highly geeky trivia.

BZ:E

tucumseh

17th Mar 2012, 22:27

Dunky, you are quite right. MoD stopped using the stuff on flight instruments in the early 80s.

What's most frightening about these pictures is being old enough to recognise some of the Ref Nos.

iRaven

17th Mar 2012, 22:37

Further Nerd Alert :8

Dunky - our MoD Watches (like the RAF/RN aircrew Seiko or Army CWC G10 watch) had either Tritium or Promethium on their hands for luminosity. The way to tell was a "P" in a circle or a "T" in a circle for Promethium or Tritium respectively. If I recall correctly, the G10s were Tritium and my RAF Seiko is definately Prometheum.

The Pulsars on current issue :yuk: use Luminova and have an "L" in a circle on their faces.

iRaven

racedo

18th Mar 2012, 00:09

The discoveries by Nutloose makes for a 'cracking' stunt at bonfire night...just throw a box or two onto the fire........
no just kidding! - Do not try this at home kids.

Next London riots leave them in the cars before they torched :E

Dunky

18th Mar 2012, 00:15

The G10's used to be Tritium, they're now Luminova. I preferred the SBS watch.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/SanchoPanza1/CWCSBS.jpg

Another example of Tritium, my Omega Speedmaster Professional, (Cal. 861), on the Omega Rally strap with deployant clasp. The box it's sitting on is one of my desktop humidors.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/SanchoPanza1/2011-05-13101424Medium.jpg

An example of Superluminova C1 on a Flieger.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/SanchoPanza1/13082010068Medium.jpg

The type of cigars you'll find in my humidors.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/SanchoPanza1/26092010098Medium.jpg

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae262/SanchoPanza1/DSC00036.jpg

barnstormer1968

19th Mar 2012, 18:23

Dunky
That SBS watch looks the business, but then I would say that as there is one on my left wrist right now :)

althenick

19th Mar 2012, 21:46

My new valve amplifier....... uses Mullard valves ex forces new old stock the retifier valve with crows feet and service details and a 22 shillings plus purchase tax just cost me £105 from the company that bought most ex mod valves up

Sorry for the thread drift but this got me thinking about my first ever Valve Radio project

http://vintageradio.me.uk/kits/hacdx/tn_hac_dx_front.jpg

The old man Bought me this for xmas 1973 (cost £5) and got the soldering Iron etc from 706 sqn Culdrose gash skip. So with a Soldering Iron with 2' of flex and some end cuts of solder yours truly was set on his way to becoming a hobby and eventualy professional Comms Engineer...

...He is a tight arsed git my old man - but I still love him to bits ;)

Roadster280

19th Mar 2012, 22:00

I know what it is, but that looks like some kind of male torture device!

ACW599

19th Mar 2012, 22:21

>I know what it is, but that looks like some kind of male torture device!<

The letters "HAC" under the centre pointer knob stand for "Heard All Continents". The parent company was one of the denizens of Tottenham Court Road when it was a Mecca for radio and electronics enthusiasts -- happy days.

ShyTorque

19th Mar 2012, 22:40

Not all the stuff that gets dumped is erm sensible, apparently some one has informed EOD over this

Nutloose, I think that ammo looks like drill rounds (no det caps fitted, recessed rear to the cartridge cases) but no, I still wouldn't risk throwing them on a fire!

Self Loading Freight

20th Mar 2012, 00:28

Disappointingly, it doesn't appear to have any radium in the dials (I checked with a similarly sourced geiger), and I don't think it would be wise to balance it on a humidor, but after thirty years of hunting I finally have this bit of ex-MOD equipment gracing my front room...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7076/6852279416_84c1fc2a21.jpg

Anyone got the PSU?

R

Not Long Here

20th Mar 2012, 03:23

About 2001 we did a Nimrod flight trial at China Lake. One of the armourers manage to break the key for the MASS.

Unfortunately, we couldn't get a replacement as it had a luminous arrow on it and BA refused to carry it as it was DAC. :uhoh: This was a key that was engaged throughout flight and positioned about 18 inches away from both the TacNav and AEO.

Had to do an authorised fair old bit of a bodge job on the Arm Power Supplies for the duration of the trial. On completion we had to revert the system to "broken" and as a result had no access to the bomb day dinghy should it have been required, for any reason, during the return to KSS.:ugh:

BEagle

20th Mar 2012, 07:55

Unfortunately, we couldn't get a replacement as it had a luminous arrow on it and BA refused to carry it as it was DAC.

Sounds like a nice trip for a VC10 or C-130 if ba refused to carry it. Better that than a 'bodge job', surely?

Self Loading Freight, isn't that a Wireless Set No.19? Designed for use in armoured vehicles with a 20 mile range HF 'A' set and a 1000 yard short range UHF super-regen 'B' set. There was also an RF amplifier available to increase the range; this included a very noisy rotary converter. It drew a huge amount of current and the only time we tried transmitting, it caused the power cables we'd used (OK, some Don 10..) to get very hot and start to smoke....which was the first and last time we ever tried it. As well as the PSU, you might also need the aerial tuner.

You could certainly get more than 20 miles out of it with a long wire antenna though.

Self Loading Freight

20th Mar 2012, 23:57

BEagle - spot on. It's actually Wireless Set*s* Number 19, due to the A and B sets which are exactly as you describe (the B set, being super-regen, is famously indiscreet and squegs all over the mil air frequencies if you let it. In the good old days, it could take out quite a lot of the ITV 405 line reception in one's locale... these days, I'd guess it'd be DAB which copped the damage.)

I used one - with the dynamotor PSU and the huge-knobbed ATU - in CCF as a spotty oik, and have wanted one for no logical reason ever since. Really happy to get one in good nick with the Cyrillic (and some Chinese!) labels - RCA Canada made it, and some ended up with our then-allies to the east. It'll sit with my R1155 (look, back in aviation now) under my tiny little 2011-vintage SDR HF rig, and I _will_ get it back on air. As you say, it can do a lot better than 20 miles, although I think it's only around 5 watts out. Less than a CB.

diginagain

21st Mar 2012, 00:35

One dusty cubby-hole of our drillhall was occupied by a CI who rarely interacted with us spotty youths, but each parade night he could be seen, hunched over his R1155/T1154 combo, deep in conversation with others of a similar bent.

500N

21st Mar 2012, 00:38

"One dusty cubby-hole of our drill hall was occupied by a CI who rarely interacted with us spotty youths, but each parade night he could be seen, hunched over his R1155/T1154 combo, deep in conversation with others of a similar bent."

Of which a few were probably spotty youths of the type he rarely interacted with during the day.:O

diginagain

21st Mar 2012, 01:33

One thing is for certain; his contribution to heating a drafty drill-hall was considerable.

Gulfstreamaviator

21st Mar 2012, 05:19

Keep on Geeking, thats what life is about out Geeking the Geeks....

glf

BEagle

21st Mar 2012, 08:34

Trying to set up the pre-set 'flicks' on the 19 Set was quite a faff - and they lacked any stability. Although we had a fully functioning 19 Set, we never used the 'B' set. We did manage once to link to a couple of short wave 'portable' sets, a WS38Mk3 and even an ancient WS18. We also had the traditional WS12 'sender' / R107 'receiver' system, which had far better range than the 19 Set. Although the specified range of the 12 Set was only about 15 miles, I've certainly worked a station in Scotland from Taunton.

The 12/107 combo covered 1.2 - 17.5 MHz. Or Mc/s as it was termed in those days. Which meant we could listen to Radio Caroline or Radio Luxembourg, but it wouldn't reach Radio London (266m / 1128 KHz). Transmission was only allowed on 5 spot frequencies, the most commonly used being 'Whisky Lima' (4030 KHz), 'Delta Oscar' (5330 KHz) and 'Tango Golf' (5972 KHz). Although I do know that some people played pop music on medium wave....:= With world wide Internet radio and global comms of today, it is difficult to explain how limited things were in the late 1960s - being able to talk to someone in another county using short wave radio was quite a thrill! All RT was on AM, SSB wasn't really possible with such frequency-unstable kit.

Our normal 'infantry' system was the VHF WS88 Type A. This was a 4 channel VHF/FM radio which used frequencies around 40 MHz. It had no squelch or volume controls, so your ears were constantly battered by white noise. It was powered by a very heavy wax-coated HT/LT battery - this was still the era of thermionic valves!

An interesting quirk of the 88 Set was that channel B was on 41.4 Mhz. Unfortunately, BBC 1 405-line TV channel 1 sound from the Croydon transmitter was on 41.5 MHz. After a number of complaints about interference, a large rivet was fitted to the channel selector, preventing anything except channel C (40.90) and channel D (40.20) from being used! There was also a Type B 88 set, covering 38.01 to 39.70 MHz, but I don't think any were issued to the CCF.

Old military radio sets issued to cadet units were an excellent way of using up old MoD equipment - and it taught us a lot about voice procedure, communications security and wireless theory. Also great fun!

Self Loading Freight

21st Mar 2012, 09:29

Plymouth in the early 80s - we still had the 88 sets, a couple of 18 sets (never used except as triggers for the moustachio'd ex-Artillery history teacher to go off on a "When I landed at Normandy with one of those on my back.." diversion. Useful), and a couple of rather capricious Eddystone receivers. We were next door to Guz, after all.

Larkspur turned up, years later than promised, just as I was leaving. A realistic preparation for the military, the CCF.

The 88 sets had the rivet mod, and were well past their yomp-by date. We used 'other methods' to keep in contact when out on Dartmoor; the local hams never really minded us borrowing bits of 2m. Well, they did but... Although the 88s could never get five hundred yards under their own, giant-wax-covered-battery, steam, they could occasionally pick up the South African police. That was at the peak of cycle 21... and now 24's looking tasty at last. Jayzus. I'm measuring my life out in sunspots.

I remember those spot frequencies. Sunrays and seagulls: I didn't spot the wry military humour at the time, but now... Pass your message, over.

(Many other tales of youthful radio naughtiness redacted, of which there was really quite a lot and all reprehensibly irresponsible. But enormous fun and somewhat magical: I remain happily infected, and am now putting together a pop-science book proposal on the natural history of wireless. Who knows, perhaps some other youthful nincompoops can yet be rescued from the Net.)

coldair

21st Mar 2012, 10:06

I had a lot of fun with an Ex MOD 66 set in the 1970's .

Anyone remamber them, the ones that sounded like they had a Hoover inside them !

Managed to work all over the UK on 80 Mtrs and if switched to CW mode it would recieve SSB clearly. This was on a long wire of course, wouldn't get to the other side of town with the whip antenna :(

Good old days :)

coldair

BEagle

21st Mar 2012, 10:24

I don't recall hearing the Seth Efrikan police, but on one occasion in early Summer 1968, one of the 88 set's channels was unusable due to what sounded like a Spanish broadcast station. Solar cycle 20, I guess....

CB could have been really good; however, not long after it became legal it fell into misuse due to kids playing music etc. Still, at least I was once tipped off about an accident on the M40 on my way to Gatwick, so was able to cut across to the M4 / M25 and avoid the delay - thus getting to the airport in time to pick up Her Deliciousness. TMC traffic on SatNav is too unreliable, RDS traffic on FM is too general; however, up-to-date information from truckers on Ch19 worked well when the channel wasn't being jammed by kids. Although you did feel a bit of an idiot having to ask for a "10-13 on the eastbound super slab" instead of "Any traffic hold-ups on the eastbound M40".....:rolleyes:

CoffmanStarter

21st Mar 2012, 10:59

BEagle, Self Loading Freight ...

I hope you don't mind me adding some personal reminiscences here ...

Early 70's in the Air Cadets I spent a good deal of my spare time after school getting a few 1985/1986 Tx/Rx sets working ... with some success !

After being "issued" with the kit and a tatty AP ... I had to build a 24v 8 Amp DC "smoothed" mains power supply (using a second-hand rectifier from a milk float charger and a thumping great transformer ... part hand wound ... along with a few Mil Grade capacitors). Also built a homemade collinear wire aerial ... "acquired" some 50 Ohm Mil Grade coax ... and on c. 5 Watts AM managed two way from Deal to Herne Bay in Kent.

Can still remember having to hardwire the Controller Plugs to allow Channel 1 to be selected ... until I scrounged a Type 382 Selector Switch (remember the Chipmunk) for our kit. The frequency then was Vic 2 (149.4 Mhz).

Even had a bash at replacing the rotary transformer in a set with a less noisy HT & LT power circuit ... along with plonking a modern RF Amp on the Rx side ... but the set "heard further than it could shout" by then !

Pics of the Aircraft 1985/86 Tx/Rx set ...

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/VHF195810D-17937.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/1986-04.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/1986-03-1.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/1985-01.jpg

Great fun and, as you say, learn't a lot ...

Best regards ...

Coff.

PS. Also got to play with a 1154/1155 rig and an RA17 ...