Qantas to reduce heavy maintenance labour by 60%

[Collando]

Qantas say they are not off shoring, howevever, as the old aircraft retire (747, 767) the new aircraft they buy are maintained overseas. This is off shoring by stealth, and Australian jobs will go as the plan for closure of 1 or maybe 2 heavy maintenance bases before the end of the decade comes to fruition. Hundreds of Aussies will be out of work.
The pride and excellence of Qantas engineering is compromised by the view that it is not cost effective to carry out wide body heavy maintenance in Australia.
What will be the cost for this short term gain? To Australia and to Qantas?
Will passengers be happy to know that the aircraft they fly internationally on are not maintained in house?
I wonder?

[...still single]

Maintenance?!?


We don' need no steenking maintenance!!

Seriously, this is heading in a really bad direction. On another forum I frequent, a guy who works for a maintenance provider in Texas posted this. The issue that sparked his rant was that some super-duper imported "mechanics" working on a 757 hadn't chocked the aircraft and it rolled a couple hundred feet across the apron.

-Once again, not me. Someone who works in Texas;

I work at a large MRO. My employer sends teams out on recruiting trips to fun places like Panama, The Philippines, and Mexico. We have entire crews of mechs who cant speak any english. (In all honesty the Filipinos are kick ass mechs. The Panamanians are effing morons.) For that matter we have entire crews of uncertificated mechanics. Our FAA says it's all legal too (the bastards). Only the leads are required to have tickets and be able to read and write english...and most of them only have repairman's tickets. These guys work under the repair station's umbrella, not their A&P because they dont have one. They have nothing to loose. The whole situation stinks.

My employer BS'd the State Department and got these guys H1-B Visas (dont ask me how). It's all crap. They are mechanics not engineers or scientists. AA is about to dump a couple thousand more into the market but my employer doesn't pay **** so it's hard for an ex-union mech to stomach coming to a place like this to work for the peanuts they offer.

I'm in QC, I shouldn't complain about my wage. I have an old friend in QC with SWA up at Love Field. His base pay is more than I make on OT. And dont get me started on UPS mech wages. Sheesh!!!

If you think about it, it makes sense for an operator to farm out his C checks. Instead of maintaining a hangar full of prima-donna union mechanics, you send your c-checks to a third-party maintenance operation in Texas or Panama or Singapore or China. You only send a few reps to babysit the birds and scream about hours bid on non-routine cards. It's a win for the operator but a huge kick in the huevos for American workers.

And the f**king FAA could give a damn.

[chockchucker]

Rumor out of the latest meeting between Qantas and it's employee unions is that they ( Qantas) have no regard for the consultation processes laid out in the QEPM or in any signed EBA.


Their attitude is now one of bulldozing their way through to making 500 LAME'S redundant over the next five years. That represents 30-40% of the current LAME's gone in that period Australia wide.



Hardly represents a good career path for any youngster starting out now. Let alone the uncertainty now present amongst the current work force.

[moa999]

What will be the cost for this short term gain? To Australia
We will be left with a small third party aircraft maintenance industry, but then we won't have an oil refining industry, a steel processing industry, a garment manufacturing industry... just mining... dig it up and ship it out

and to Qantas?
International might survive a little longer, but ultimately if we thought the Middle East airlines were tough to compete against, wait till the Chinese get really going - competing connections to both Europe and the US

Will passengers be happy to know that the aircraft they fly internationally on are not maintained in house? The problem is 82% (per Joyce) and growing are quite happy to pay cheaper fares and fly on someone other than Qantas, someone who gets maintenance done outside Australia

[Collando]

The problem is 82% (per Joyce) and growing are quite happy to pay cheaper fares and fly on someone other than Qantas, someone who gets maintenance done outside Australia.

If the 18% or so that fly with Qantas want to fly with other operators for a cheaper price they would have done so.
I know many who fly Qantas as they "feel safe" flying with them.
Perhaps its a lost cause but Id venture to say that people who fly with other operators would have no idea and are ignorant of the quality of the maintenance on the aircraft they are flying on. No, Qantas dos'nt have a monopoly on quality, but at least you can be sure Qantas planes are maintained by experienced,well qualified engineers who have a vested interest in the company they are proud to work for.

[MACH082]

I wouldn't worry too much about china or the middle east.

Once the aircraft are developed that can fly direct services point to point economically, 5th freedom rights will expire naturally.

European airlines, American or Aussie airlines will fly point to point and the punters will fly direct to their destinations with incumbents, rather than hubbing through a third world world port like the current system.

Airlines like emirates etc are making their money flying westerners between their usual ports with their geographical fifth freedom rights.

Point to point will bypass that :cool:

Whether the airframe makers will build them considering the unprecedented business they are experiencing from these regions with current technology that favors them is another thing.

On a side note, and I feel for lames I really do, but do you think it's economically viable keeping a heavy maitenance workforce on the books when aircraft like the 787 don't need heavy checks for 12 years?

Once the current fleets are replaced, this is the new reality. It's sad, but it's the reality.

Of course any unscheduled maintenance (like A380s wings) are covered by the manufacturer.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Qantas cuts revealed | Geelong, VIC, Australia (http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2012/03/03/310811_news.html)
Seems that the ALAEA has chosen to put out any news on Avalon via the Geelong Advertiser there own website has had nothing for 2 weeks.

[Collando]

On a side note, and I feel for lames I really do, but do you think it's economically viable keeping a heavy maitenance workforce on the books when aircraft like the 787 don't need heavy checks for 12 years?

Time will tell if the 787 lives up to the manufacturers expectations.
I'm not sure I would want to fly on a new type of aircraft that hadn't had a major check for 10 -12 yrs. Point in case, I'm sure Airbus were not planning to have to reinspect wings on the A380 so soon into service.
History tells us that rarely has a manufacturer lived up to the promises given to buyers.Much has been paid out to airlines in compensation over the years,including Qantas, Hell, Boeing are already recalling 787s that haven't entered service yet, due to manufacturing flaws.
I guess though it will all fall under the warranty and maintenance will be driven by the manufacturer,who will pay for promises that cannot be met!

[Jack Ranga]

On a side note, and I feel for lames I really do, but do you think it's
economically viable keeping a heavy maitenance workforce on the books when
aircraft like the 787 don't need heavy checks for 12 years?



Yep, be interested to see if that pans out considering its very chequered history to this point.

Note: never buy the first model of anything :ok:

[empire4]

it's interesting that the flaws in the A380 and the 787 are because of outsourcing. I have seen the Boeing chief say it on camera. They had to buy a plant that was making part of the 787 just so the project didn't collapse!

The same is said for the A380. I think you'll find only the final assembly is done in house! Pretty scary hey.

[mcgrath50]

The same is said for the A380. I think you'll find only the final assembly is done in house! Pretty scary hey.

Depends what you mean by in house. If you mean at the final factory that puts it all together, then you are pretty much right. But the wings for example are made by an Airbus owned company in the UK as are many other components. Although they too use parts made off site by both Airbus owned companies and private contractors.

[The Professor]

"I wouldn't worry too much about china or the middle east.
Once the aircraft are developed that can fly direct services point to point economically, 5th freedom rights will expire naturally."

Such old thinking.

Direct services to Europe will become less and less important.

Its the BRIC, particularly China, that will be valuable destinations.

You guys should start thinking forward instead of backward.

[unionist1974]

The writing has been on the wall for all to see for some time . And the Unions have sat by and done the usual jump up and down routine but little else . When will they wake up to the fact that the jobs they have are well paid and need to be protected , not destroyed by a Union Secretary persuing a personal vendetta after getting a big payout

[Bagus]

60% means offshore,end of maintenance in Australia,good luck to qantas who says safety come first,no such thing as safety its all about shareholders and board of directors, money come first than safety,all airlines that are buying aircraft are hiring more engineers but qantas are reducing engineers because Joyce are comparing aircraft to cars.Joyce talk to ur engineers

[chockchucker]

Qantas to cut maintenance workers
BY: STEVE CREEDY, AVIATION WRITER From: The Australian March 06, 2012 12:00AM
Increase Text Size
Decrease Text Size
Print

The Qantas Melbourne maintenance facility in Tullamarine is one of three plants at risk of being closed. Picture: Stuart McEvoy. Source: The Australian
QANTAS expects labour demand at its heavy maintenance facilities to drop by 60 per cent over the next five years, the equivalent of more than 870 jobs, as it retires aircraft and brings in new maintenance systems and planes that require less work.

The airline last month announced plans to consolidate heavy maintenance facilities in Brisbane, Melbourne and Avalon, near Geelong, which collectively employ 1460 workers.

It is consulting with unions about its options, but this is the first time it has indicated how far it may need to shrink its heavy maintenance operations.

Details that emerged last week indicate Qantas has now narrowed down the possibilities to three options, the most dramatic of which is to close down two of the bases and consolidate the work at either Melbourne, Brisbane or Avalon.

Melbourne, which concentrates on maintenance of Boeing 737s and employs about 400 workers, is seen as the least likely to survive.


The other options would see the consolidation of Boeing 737 work now done at Melbourne into the newer Brisbane facility, with 747 work continuing at Avalon or both 767 and 747 maintenance taking place at Avalon.

"The problem we are trying to solve is an anticipated 60 per cent reduction in labour demand over the next five years," Tony Lowery, the airline's head of heavy maintenance, told staff in a message.

"The criteria we are examining to help us make the best choice include: ongoing operating costs in the context of keeping existing heavy maintenance on shore, capital costs, and ability to support new systems of maintenance."

Any job losses from heavy maintenance consolidation would be in addition to the 500 jobs Qantas announced it was shedding last month. Another 600 catering jobs will go if its catering division is sold.

The maintenance review has sparked a lobbying war between Victoria and Queensland as the two states fight to keep their facilities open.

Victorian unions have urged the Baillieu government to try to keep the jobs in that state, and Queensland Premier Anna Bligh has threatened legal action if the airline tries to close down its Brisbane facility before 2014.

The airline has already said it will not be doing heavy maintenance on the Airbus A380 in Australia, and expects it will be well into the next decade before it has to make a decision on its bigger fleet of Boeing 787 Dreamliners.



Change for an improvement in maintenance would be one thing. This is just an ideological race to the bottom for the cheapest/nastiest option possible. And a union busting exercise. Pure and simple.


The vast 737 experience that is about to be flushed away by the bean counters through, what would appear to be the imminent demise of QF Heavy Maint Tulla, is a disgrace. And the industry as a whole will be all the poorer for it.:(

[Jethro Gibbs]

ALAEA is extra quite on all this where are they ?

[chockchucker]

ALAEA is extra quite on all this where are they ?


Bugger-all the ALAEA can probably do about it now. Qantas appear to have no regard for the consultation procedures laid down in either their own policy & procedures manual (A CASA approved document) or in any of the relevant EBA's that they have signed.


It appears as though the agenda is just smash their way through and let tomorrows management (and the current employees) deal with the consequences.


Where are CASA in all this you might ask? Well, if they were a little more focused in actually regulating Qantas rather than treating them like a customer, then perhaps this debacle could be avoided.


However, sadly the national regulator has dropped the ball. Anytime that problems are reported to them they just meekly ask Qantas (or Jetstar) to fix it. Susbquently washing their hands of the whole situation whilst telling anyone who will listen that they have done all they can do.


Jetstar were, apparently, recently given a show cause notice from CASA regarding the sad state of their maintenance watch department (among other things). Information not obtained through the regulators diligence but, rather from a whistleblower. The fact that Qantas managed to hush it all up is testament to the skill of the cronies in their PR department. The fact that CASA has down nothing further other than to ask the fox to guard the chicken coup it a testament to its inadequacy.


Unfortunately, the only thing that will derail the farcical relationship between Qantas and CASA is a smoking hole in the ground. At which point all those that now propagate the myth that new aircraft require less maintenance will be ducking for cover.:ugh:

[SpannerTwister]

Unfortunately, the only thing that will derail the farcical relationship between Qantas and CASA is a smoking hole in the ground. At which point all those that now propagate the myth that new aircraft require less maintenance will be ducking for cover.:ugh:

Not quite.....To quote from another thread on this forum ................

You do what the rest of the world does, you manage it.

While MP's response was to a different question in a different thread, you just know the answer is the same.

This is typical of QF Management.

Good management prepares their business for the unfortunate events that beset any business by planning, by building fire breaks, by immediately attending to any spot fires that break out on their watch.

Qantas management has a policy of taking no precautions, of ignoring the first signs of smoke, indeed of ignoring spot fires.

It is only when there is a raging bushfire, when irreparable damage has been done, that Qantas management then, and only then...........


........you manage it.

ST

[Slippery_Pete]

Qantas to reduce heavy maintenance labour by 60%


I hope this thread gets saved for future reference.

It won't be until 5, 10 or 15 years time when a Qantas aircraft goes in, that decisions such as these will be identified as simply a removing of a f****** big piece of cheese.

[Jethro Gibbs]

breaking news.. Qantas flight 487 bound for Melb forced to turn around..I saw sparks fly outside my window!

[The Bungeyed Bandit]

Rabbit on the runway got gobbled up into the left engine during take-off roll. Air turn back. No biggy. Blades bent and acoustic lining damaged. **** happens.

[The lens]

(Thread drift....):

MOA999: 'We will be left with a small third party aircraft maintenance industry, but then we won't have an oil refining industry, a steel processing industry, a garment manufacturing industry... just mining... dig it up and ship it out'

There's always a career in aged care....I'll look after you....

Jack Ranga: 'Note: never buy the first model of anything'

A saying, variously worded, comes to mind:

'Be not the first by which the new are tried;
Be not the first by which the old are set aside.'

('Destination Disaster- The story of the DC10'- Eddie/Page/Potter, circa 1976)

[magic8]

Any news of engineers already accepting offers?

[Jet-A-One]

EOI period doesn't end till the 25th. Then the consideration stage. If there's less volunteers than packages, one would expect all volunteers to get their package then the consideration be given to who gets tapped.

[Arnold E]

Doing wonders for the job prospects of non QF LAMES...........NOT:{

[Ngineer]

Its a shame to see a wealth of talent, experience and Australian expertise laid to waste in pursuit of a few fat bonuses. Some ppl have no integrity.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Compared to all the talk during the EBA people seem resigned to just going quietly now.

[Jet-A-One]

WTF is wrong with the moderators on this site?

These two threads have nothing to do with each other.
The redundancies have nothing to do with Heavy Maintenance. Why not just let the thread run it's course or is it just because it's not a pilot issue.

[Captain Gidday]

1. Thread drift is not previously unknown on PPRuNe.
2. If a reduction in Australian maintenance capacity is somehow not relevant to redundancies, then for what other reason are there redundancies? Do tell us, J-A-1. Or maybe you need to put in an appropriate smilie to let us dumb pilots know you are really being sarcastic. e.g. :rolleyes:
AJ and the executive coterie are the only people who spruik the lack of connection between a decline in capacity and a need to reduce the workforce. To everyone else, it appears self evident.

[Arnold E]

AJ and the executive coterie are the only people who spruik the lack of connection between a decline in capacity and a need to reduce the workforce. To everyone else, it appears self evident.

I know I am only a dumb engineer, but I am not exactly sure what you are trying to say.:confused::confused:

[Captain Gidday]

Arnold, I am saying - there seems to be 100% connection between engineer redundancies and a downsizing of QF maintenance capacity.
Mr Joyce [and apparently Jet A1] are the only people who seem to think there is no connection -it's just a weird coincidence or something - even when clearly and self evidently Australian jobs ARE being lost.

[hewlett]

The current redundacies have nothing to do with heavy maintenance.More about a reduction in wide bodies, next it will be MOD and finally it will be heavy. Oh and don't forget the loss of those troublesome customer airlines. Muppets!

[Jet-A-One]

I think you'll find the 2nd thread was about the redundancies in Line Maintenance (mostly in SAM and other domestic line stations). There are currently no redundancies in Heavy Maintenance (Tulla, Avv or Bris). If you put down your PA mic down long enough and listen to those that are actually effected you might learn something Captain.

Being made redundant is a fairly big deal to those faced with it and a lot of engineers view this site for info.

[Jet-A-One]

and Google "thread drift" while you're at it and explain to me how it relates to the few posts of the 2nd thread... It was the other thread, that had no replys for over a week, that was drifting Captain.

[hewlett]

How many are likely to subscribe to the SAM positions? I have heard 70 positions to go.

[Jet-A-One]

I think it's 30 odd LAME and 20 or so AME positions in SAM. I think about half of those will be volunteers. Interested to hear if anyone else is counting the volunteers.

[woollcott]

Well. I'm in Heavy Maint Melbourne, and we all know we are about to be closed down - about 400 LAMEs and AMEs will be made redundant.....

Amazing thing is people are still doing great work and getting things done, all the time knowing they will be out of work in a few months.

At one of the last meetings, Management congratulated the people who worked on the 737 Window frame replacement - a big, big job.
They remarked that on our first time, we had done it in 9 days, yet the typical time was 14 days...........

Doesn't mean a thing though.......we will still be shut down.........

[chockchucker]

Albeit in the context of an approaching state election in Queensland, an interesting take on the Heavy Maintenance Question in the Courier Mail Today.......


400 jobs on the line in Qantas overhaul in Brisbane

by: Darrell Giles From: The Sunday Mail (Qld) March 18, 2012 12:00AM

BRISBANE is looking increasingly likely to lose its Qantas heavy maintenance operations and 400 jobs in major restructuring by the national air carrier.

Only a month ago, union bosses tipped a purpose-built facility at Brisbane Airport to be chosen as the sole survivor of a plan to reduce maintenance facilities across the country from three to one.

But sources told The Sunday Mail Qantas was now leaning towards consolidation at Avalon, Victoria. A final decision is expected in late April.

A move to Victoria would be a blow to the Sunshine State after the unemployment rate jumped from 5.4 to 5.7 per cent in February, reflecting significant turbulence in the local retail, manufacturing and banking industries.

The rate was 0.5 per cent above the national average.

Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce announced a review of the heavy maintenance facilities last month after a big plunge in profits for the airline - an 83 per cent drop down to $42 million.


Jobs go as Qantas profit plummets
Hundreds of Qantas jobs up in the air
Premier Bligh flags legal action over Qantas jobs

"There is simply not enough heavy maintenance work to justify the three facilities in Melbourne, Brisbane and Avalon," Mr Joyce said.

"Do we need to go to two or go to one? We can't maintain all three."

In its two-month review, Qantas has considered:

* Consolidation into Melbourne.

* Consolidation into Avalon.

* Consolidation into Brisbane.

* Consolidation into the Brisbane facility, with Boeing 747s maintained in Avalon.

* Boeing 737s maintained in Brisbane, Boeing 747s and 767s in Avalon.

Brisbane's multi-million-dollar heavy maintenance facility was completed in 2005 to service Qantas's Boeing 767 and Airbus A330 fleet.

The Melbourne option has all but been ruled out because it has the oldest facility, built in 1970, and it has narrow-body hangars for Boeing 737s. Big money would have to be spent to fit the wide-body fleet.

A Qantas spokesman said yesterday the operations would remain in Australia and not move offshore.




Sadly, from this article it would appear Tulla is dead.:( A mistake of monumental proportions.

However, IF Avalon comes to the fore of managerial thinking, hopefully some of the vast 737 expertise that is currently there may not be totally lost.

[ampclamp]

Woolcott it is not amazing, its professionalism.It is not found thru all areas within Q sadly.

As for which base survives, I would expect considerable inter state bargaining to go on and let's say 'strategically released rumours' to the effect that one or the other has the inside running to create tension in any unofficial interstate bidding process. I think in the end it will be a cluster ^%# that will cost jobs and expertise. You cant buy or put price on having a vast knowledge base to draw on.

[VBA Engineer]

At one of the last meetings, Management congratulated the people who worked on
the 737 Window frame replacement - a big, big job.
They remarked that on
our first time, we had done it in 9 days, yet the typical time was 14
days...........

I hope you replaced the frame on both sides, big mistake tearing all the cockpit and structure down to do one side only then some 12 months later have the other side crack.

Other operator now only doing double frame replacements

[Nudlaug]

I hope you replaced the frame on both sides, big mistake tearing all the cockpit and structure down to do one side only then some 12 months later have the other side crack.

Other operator now only doing double frame replacements

You mean being proactive? Are you crazy? This is Qantas 2012 under Joyce, they wouldn't look past the next 7 days :-P

[SpannerTwister]

You mean being proactive? Are you crazy? This is Qantas 2012 under Joyce, they wouldn't look past the next 7 days :-P

I think you're the crazy one Nudlaug !!

To even suggest that the 'Roo has a 7 day forward plan is to signal to the world that you have no idea how management at the 'Roo works :p !

It's more like this ..............

Day 1 ........
See dry leaves

Day 2........
Notice leaf pile has increased in size and weather is getting warmer

Day 3.......
Notice weather is hotter and winds are increasing

Day 4.......
Notice known fire-bug in area

Day 5........
See known fire-bug playing with matches

Day 6.......
See small amount of smoke

Day 7.......
See large amount of smoke

Day 8.......
See small grass-fire

Day 9.........
See small bushfire

Day 10.......
See large bush-fire

Day 11.........
See catastrophic bush-fire

Day 12.........
OMG !!
Why weren't we warned ?
Look what the bl@@dy unions have done to us !
Look what the government has done to us !
Look what our competitors have done to us !
Look what the oil companies have done to us !
Look what the $A has done to us !
Look what the tourist market has done to us !

Days 13 - 19.........
Run around in circles repeating cries of day 12

Day 20.........
Send Liv in to face the press and reassure financial markets that all is well

Day 21.........
Make 50% of the troops redundant and send the remaining in to fight the fire

Day 22.........
Criticise the troops for taking so long to bring the fire under control

Day 23........
Bask in glory for having controlled the fire !

ST

[porch monkey]

F@ckin' gold, that is!

[Nudlaug]

Hehe Spanner got a point :-D

[Ultralights]

how did you manage to convince Joyce to give you his long term business plan? :E

[Jack Ranga]

He's gunna burn an Asian forest down before he starts here.

[magic8]

After seeing my '2nd Thread' moved maybe the moderators know more than me regarding the redundancies.I believe that some Line LAME's from outside the affected areas(Mel-Bne-Syd-Adl) asked for figures to investigate the possibility of applying should there be a shortage of applications.I have been told that they were all refused.Maybe QF think they will get more than enough!!!
As to wether Heavy Maint LAMEs(When and if they are announced) will be able to swap with Line Maint should the need arise any ideas?

[another superlame]

I have heard a few rumbles that the current round of lay-offs are chicken feed.
When MoD comes into full swing some management have described the amount to go as a bloodbath.
This can't be good.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Why has the ALAEA gone so quite on everything of late .

[ampclamp]

alaea is talking to the company jethro regarding the carnage. LAME numbers fell short of that required. AM/AMEs overdone. I am sure that the alaea will push hard to see other ports included in the VR process. Whether they can force their hand or not is another question.

can we stop calling it MOD please ? it is just another biz speak euphemism to try and alter the fact of the matter being LESS maintenance on demand and lower safety standards.

[Jethro Gibbs]

The maintenance review Team or whatever they are called visited Avalon last week well not exactly they stayed in a Geelong Hotel and never set foot on Avalon .

[600ft-lb]

The maintenance review Team or whatever they are called visited Avalon last week well not exactly they stayed in a Geelong Hotel and never set foot on Avalon .

Are you sure ? That would imply somewhat that they haven't made a decision yet. From what I've been hearing straight from the mouths of management, there will only be 1 heavy maintenance facility at the end of all this, not this first round but the bloodbath thats down the road.

Enough to satisfy the requirements of the Qantas Sale Act. The only things that would influence the decision making process now is how much money can be extracted out of state governments to keep jobs from going overseas some more. Sorry, I meant, keep the remaining jobs onshore, as Alan keeps telling us, the jobs are gone, not outsourced but gone. Big difference.:confused:

[Jethro Gibbs]

Are you sure ? That would imply somewhat that they haven't made a decision
yet

Everyone knows its all smoke and mirrors they have already made a decision its just a tour for appearance sake

[Ngineer]

When MoD comes into full swing some management have described the amount to go as a bloodbath

You can probably thank CASA too for allowing aircraft maint within Australia to now run on the smell of an oily rag. Hence the complete disregard and contempt that some management are now showing for the standards, systems and previous track records that we had in place. Disgraceful.

[SpannerTwister]

In the next six months QE is having "The Mother of all reorganisations"

1) Melbourne Heavy Maintenance to close

2) Melbourne Maintenance Scheduling to move to Sydney

3) Melbourne Maintenance Watch to move to Sydney

4) All supply / Engineering (degree engineers) / support to move to Sydney

5) Anyone else in "The White House" to be cleaned out

6) Redundancies (Round 1)

7) Marlin / Maintenix to replace Cameo

As far as I can see, each and every one of these, if it is to be attempted at all, should be done in complete isolation of the others.

All of these functions are Mission Critical, failure of any one of these could have catastrophic results for QE, and hence Qantas itself.

These, each and every one, are CORE FUNCTIONS of having an aircraft at the gate serviceable and ready to depart on-time.

Even with my rapidly fading eyesight I can see MANY unexpected hiccups along the way.

I believe, that with just the tiniest bit of common sense, when the wheel nuts are found to be loose and the wheels are wobbling off of the wagon, management will have no choice but to "defer" the implementation of MOD.

ST

(Best I say no more, but I am very reliably informed that a few people have already noticed a couple of wheel nuts loosing off even at this early stage.)

[shon7]

Perhaps you should come out with another 61 point questionnaire

[the_company_spy]

Shon7, perhaps you could eat your own $h!t.

[Short_Circuit]

With the redundancies at Sydney Base on this coming Monday, I doubt many Int services will go anywhere near schedule, if at all...... :{

[another superlame]

Maintenix on its own will cause a bloodbath. At the moment is only serves 12 aircraft and it struggles with those 12.
When it goes fleet wide, the network will come to a grinding halt through no fault of the maintenance staff. The system is cumbersome.

[shon7]

It will do just fine. There will be some challenges which is inevitable with every transition.

Many airlines have done it and emerged stronger in the end.

[woollcott]

Supposed big announcement now slated for April 26

It was a pleasure working with you all.............................

[Short_Circuit]

The NZ brothers warned that Nastyswine was brought to QF to swing the axe, they were right. The smiling assassin has done his duty, will he be gone now?. :sad:

[600ft-lb]

shon7
Perhaps you should come out with another 61 point questionnaireAs an failed Indian wannabe pilot since 2002, I fail to see how anything you say has any relevance. You're a troll, you don't work for anyone involved, you're probably the product of rich parents who paid for you to do your training in America or Canada yet seem to have done nothing since, except fail, judging from your posts.

You post threads about dealing with burnout from being ignored by everyone you apply to amongst other things like 'why don't they fly syd to jfk direct', yet you seem to have a perverse like for alan joyces actions, wishing him to come to your native India and deal with the union scum over there.

Here's a hint, get a job, work in the industry, don't be a scab and then come back and have a valid opinion. Until then its best to just keep your irrelevant, invalid opinion to yourself.

[shon7]

wow. excellent research. With skills like these you could probably solve the Kennedy assassination. Better still you could turn around QF international and stop the 200 mn hemorrhage (google the word if you dont understand it or ask your parents to explain it to you) so that JQ can actually be spun off and not keep having to prop up QF.

By the way, whats getting you so worked up if the opinion is irrelevant and invalid. Or is it?

[Jethro Gibbs]

Wonder if Qantas and Project 7 will or are already are joining forces to reduce heavy maintenance Labour given there involvement in Toyota sackings.

Performance Improvement, Lean Learning, Quality Improvement Process (http://www.project7consultancy.com/index.html)

[Jethro Gibbs]

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Vic-govt-should-help-keep-Qantas-jobs-ALP-THEJU?OpenDocument&src=hp7

Everyone should be asking where the unions are as well as they all seem to have dropped of the face of the planet in the past month.

[Clipped]

Jethro

What would you have the union do? Lobby a State Liberal Govt?

Make open book concessions to Qantas? Over many years Tulla staff have met and exceeded performance targets, repeatedly. This has made no difference as performance, expertise and capability will be sacrificed by an airline hell bent on short term political and industrial gain.

Not unlike the closure of H245, this 'consolidation' makes no practical sense, money will not be saved. But management's KPI's will be met.

This whole episode stinks.

[rmm]

You could always pick up the phone Jethro and call your union.

[LHLisa]

The noble and brave capitalists trickle down their wealth to the rest of us , we are tinkled on, and we should be grateful .

[Jethro Gibbs]

What would you have the unions do?

They were all really vocal and out there in the news when eba,s were on now they have all disappeared one of them has not even updated the news section of there web site for a over month.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Maybe you just have no idea what work is being done behind the scenes.

[Bagus]

Give alaea a chance,they are trying to protect lame jobs in all three bases.

[rudderless1]

Where's the ALAEA,
I think Sp was standing in a picket with PALEA Filipinos that had a ten
Year pay freeze, then sacked then offered their jobs back
With a 30% pay cut whilst the airline profits multiply and the execs rape it:mad:
They're not even cheap enough.
Why is dishonesty and white collar crime so acceptable.
Why do managers need more to perform better, but their workforces
Need less (fyi that is a rhetorical question for some of the thicker trolls on this forum)

[rudderless1]

The ALAEA is also meeting with QF on the many varied combinations
Of maintenance scenarios, finding the many baseless and flawed decisions
The ministers fail to act, CASA is aiding the farce by its compliance
With whatever QF decrees. The Once sort after Australian Lame licences are no longer internationally recognized.
You can only keep chipping away, or resisting in hope what made qf is stopped before All destroyed.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Rumour mass meeting early am at Tulla & Avalon Re the Future on Monday 30

[LHLisa]

All the unions are in a very difficult situation in 2012. Many laws are currently more focused on protecting the rights of companies and the one percent than they are focused on the rights of the individual. The more people who join the unions and support them equals more power to all of us as individuals, and more rights , and better working conditions .

[ranmar850]

Unions in a difficult position, with a Labour government? I think not.

[ampclamp]

ranmar this is not a real labor govt. They did jack on changing work choices and crapped on the twu alaea and aipa.

[Bagus]

Decision has been delayed,more days of agony.

[Clipped]

Interesting, that they need more time to come up with a decision.

The idea of consolidation of HM was thrown around a couple of years ago. What work was done in that time? Have these fools any idea of what they are about to destroy?

Probably attempting to siphon a few more goodies from the Qld/Vic governments, whilst Joe Blow on the hangar floor turns up every day doing a decent days work and wondering what the hell the future holds. I would imagine there is quite a bit of stress about. Levels of stress that the CEO deemed required the grounding of an airline.

Morons.

[ampclamp]

"Have these fools any idea of what they are about to destroy?"

umm nope. 737 is the backbone of the fleet and they are hamstringing the heavy & tech maintenance that has many hundreds of years of experience.

[Bumpfoh]

Levels of stress that the CEO deemed required the grounding of an airline.

A very pertinent point Clipped, what AJ and the rest of QF management don't understand is the integrity and professionalism of the staff in QF engineering as a whole.

An excuse trotted out to the govinmint/media/public when it suited them best.:mad:

[flats1]

737 making money for the airline, so why don't we get rid of all the experienced prof engineers, planners, buyers, maint watch, etc etc ..............great idea !!

[Captain Gidday]

Correct Bumpfoh.
It makes perfect sense if you see the situation as two warring tribes. The CMT [Clifford Management Tribe] and the Engineering Tribe. For many, many years the ET ran Qantas in its own inimitable way. Flt Ops was a small subservient division of Engineering.
Now the CMT is taking over, suppressing opposition, asserting control. They don't understand you [or professional pilots, for that matter] and never will. They don't even want to understand.

[Talkwrench]

It would appear that management are relishing their rare opportunity to "slow bake" the employees that caused them so much angst last year.

Or maybe I'm just too cynical.

[the rim]

yes 737 hm will go the way of mascot 747 hm....they did not care about the loss of exp people then and wont now....and dont forget the lies they told us back then that the hangars had to go to make a wider taxi way so domestic aircraft would be able to pass each other....lies lies:=

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

These plans of management were set many years ago. They are slow baking the entire airline with Jetstar and their other start up companies. It is all in the name of lowering wages and conditions. We need to elect a labor Govt to stop it. Unfortunately we elected a Liberal Govt in Labor costumes.

[Bagus]

Agree,we need a government that is serious about aviation maintenance in Australia,in future there will be no more aircraft maintenance in Australia,

[TIMA9X]

Unfortunately we elected a Liberal Govt in Labor costumes. Agree Steve, it happened in the UK under Tony Blair then Gordon Brown,(Tory's dressed up as a Labor party) look what happened to them.... eventually the "service industry" sent the economy into a spin after they sold the farm, (quick fix) ie their manufacturing base, the car industry etc. Now the Germans (Rolls Royce, Bentley) and India (Jag, Rover) are cleaning up.

With great respect Steve, the Australian Labor Party are working against the unions quietly but pretending to support you guys.. exactly the same way Tony Blair did in the UK... Like lemmings we just follow and allow it to happen.

I was living in the UK when this happened to my disgust.. last year it appeared the momentum against Clifford's plans were exposed in this clip,

TWjtVMo_PGc


then the wheels fell off... Shorten's double speak in this clip says it all... talk about sitting on the fence.

80UDVY4bxO8

he says nothing but actually supports the Qantas management... quotes nothing but lawyer speak that means nothing to union members.

The unions were duped by Labor, no doubt about it... forget the FWA, it works against the workers of Australia and designed by Labor.

It's the same tactics as the UK, slow bake the the unions. There is plenty of evidence, Bill Shorten, Albo & Gillard sold you guys out last year.... The FWA appeal by the pilots which they should win is also being slow baked by the "legal eagles" attached to the system. They will twist the decision to support the FWA system and the business community leaders, in my view of course.

Union leaders of Australia have allowed Gillard to get off lightly because of it's close ties, they trusted them too much... (the same as the UK)

From another thread, for me sums up the real plan

The strategy is pretty obvious. Far Q Premium is still on. However, while they are shedding lots of employees in Australia they just can't talk about it out loud. Remember, 'the Asian strategy does not give rise to job losses in Australia'? They don't want any bad publicity like Toyota Australia, do they! It is still the plan, it's just gone underground.

Then, dirty work completed, up pops the new 787 base in Singapore, all sorted and ready to go. [What a surprise!]. I have recorded all the happenings for the past two years on my channel for your reference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52kTLnsXC2w&list=PLE55474F1DB9E19B1&feature=plcp&context=C427373bFDvjVQa1PpcFNcbIkwTCtDGs8PBnq3F2osx5fFDdtlXE Y=

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

There are many ways to conduct a fight buddy its just that some battles are fought behind closed doors. We will open them for all to see if need be.

[ranmar850]

These plans of management were set many years ago. They are slow baking the entire airline with Jetstar and their other start up companies. It is all in the name of lowering wages and conditions. We need to elect a labor Govt to stop it. Unfortunately we elected a Liberal Govt in Labor costumes.


No, you voted in what passes for a Labour government nowadays, one that tries to be all things to all people, because ,face it, purely labour-based, union dominated parties are on the nose everywhere, and have been for a long time.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

purely labour-based, union dominated parties are on the nose everywhere, and have been for a long time.



and where would they be? Our Govt may be on the nose, they are union dominated but they certainly can't be seen as labour-based. Their ultimate masters are the same business leaders that control the Liberal party. I only make this observation from seeing and working with it first hand.

To keep this on thread. This Govt. must enforce the intent of the Qantas sale act to prevent the wholesale destruction of our National airline. The Govt. have the tools to act but their masters won't let them. For HM this means an airline that bases its facilities onshore and can't set up a second airline with Qantas funds, routes, landing slots and support services to avoid the confines of the Act.

[Jethro Gibbs]

This Govt is to busy cheating on taxi vouchers and other scams to give a rats about aviation.

[UPPERLOBE]

Taxi vouchers?

Pardon my ignorance Jethro, but as far as I can see the person concerned was going to lose his seat preselection because of his previous efforts so he prostituted himself to his party's so called mortal enemy.

[Clipped]

To add to the flavour of this discussion, is the Murdoch/News Corp (union hater) saga and the pollies. The same forces apply here. From the SMH

''I never asked a Prime Minister for anything,'' Rupert Murdoch told the Leveson inquiry in London last night.

Lead counsel for the inquiry Robert Jay had been trying to coax the media mogul into a confession that he had absolutely no intention of making: that the chairman of News Corporation, through his news outlets, exercised undue influence on politics and politicians. That democratically elected Prime Ministers were captive in Mr Murdoch's petting zoo.

Mr Murdoch's statement to the inquiry was intended as complete rebuttal.

But truth is there could be no more succinct or categorical acknowledgement of Mr Murdoch's power.

Being manifestly powerful means not having to ask. Politics knows what you want and what you need, and what you can do by way of retribution when thwarted.

The relationship between politicians and media barons is always a delicate exercise in counterpoise. Hence the sound of those coat-tails trailing deferentially before you.

Ask? Why ask, when everybody already knows what the transaction is. And when, as Murdoch biographer Michael Wolff put it in The Guardian after Mr Murdoch's appearance last night: ''His business is so large, his resources so vast, his options so many, his minions so efficient, that it would not occur to him that he would need to do this.''

But that acknowledgement notwithstanding — that we are watching one of the most powerful media barons in the world denying his power, thereby subtly confirming it — is a lurking sense of nostalgia.

A sense that the covert power Mr Murdoch references has already peaked; that all this is a reflection on a past world. That a combination of the hacking scandal in the UK, the continuing internal pressure on Mr Murdoch within his own company to move past his old school love of newspapers, and the fragmentation of the media market is eroding everyone's hegemony in increments.

That no one quite directs the play any more: not the politicians, not the media owners — that the monster of their co-creation has bounded somehow, drowned in the cacophony of the internet or rendered valueless by the weary cynicism of the consumers of politics and news.

That things are not as they were, and never can be quite as they were, despite the implacable will of the mogul putting up with the interrogation at Leveson, because a sequence of events largely outside his control has left him with no other tenable option.

To sit at the table and be star of the flea circus.

[Jethro Gibbs]

A State Government spokeswoman said it was in talks with Qantas.





"Our discussions are continuing and it is disappointing that the AWU is
scaremongering while Qantas is making a decision," she said.

At Least there out there saying something .

Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/qantas-maintenance-jobs-on-the-chopping-block/story-fn7x8me2-1226338334033)

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Pity they are saying the wrong thing.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Would have thought the unions were working together looks like there not .

[unionist1974]

Fed Sec was done over like a dinner , now he is spraying at all his so called "mates'"A boy trying to do a mans job comes to mind

[Bagus]

Queensland vs Victoria,Brisbane vs Melbourne,Melbourne vs Avalon.this is the game qantas playing with our lives.what a company ,shut all and go to ASIA.

[Talkwrench]

Jethro Gibbs:

Would have thought the unions were working together looks like there not .

Aside from your punishingly woeful grammar and spelling, what is your point?

You constantly snipe on this and other threads about the unions (the ALAEA in particular) and what a sh!t job they're doing.

What's the go? What are you trying to achieve?

If you're a member of one of the unions involved, how about talking to your local delegate or calling the office and asking for an update.

[qf 1]

Shorten is a dog,he was happy to see sydney H.M. shut down because he thought there was going to be net gain in numbers for the AWU in avalon over sydney,the man didn't give a rats that Sydney's closing down would disrupt 450 family's ,as long as his union made an extra $400 per week in dues.

[600ft-lb]

This direction has been set since Alan Joyce filled Qantas upper management echelons with his mates. I remember Lyell Strambi at an employee roadshow saying he couldn't understand why there were 3 different heavy maintenance bases, just weeks after he started.

I can only guess, but would imagine the path for whats going on now has been set since AJ beat Borghetti for the top job and got his mates in to close the airline down bit by bit.

[Sunfish]

Please understand that the facilities review is being strung out because it maximises the pleasure of Qantas management.

Narcissists adore being sucked up to by State Governments who are desperate to preserve jobs.

They also adore the feeling of power that comes from creating fear, alarm, uncertainty and despondancy among their workforce.

Don't you understand that there can never be enough gratification for these people? They feed on your pain!

If you all agreed to a 50% salary cut, they would be after you the following week threatening you with replacement by Vietnamese. If the Vietnamese arrived, they would threaten them with replacement by even cheaper Burmese.

There is no other explanation for the continuous Qantas policy of long drawn out and highly public reviews of facilities, staff numbers and working arrangements other than managements sheer enjoyment of this process.

Professionally managed companies, on the other hand, do this in private and make their eventual decisions in a way to minimise employee emotional pain and suffering.

[Collando]

Sunfish. It is managements job to have an efficient workplace. The monumental failure of management is their inept ability to manage its staff .Therefore their benchmark is to offshore all Heavy maintenance. It is well known that they resent the strong opinions of the Melbourne Lames, even suggesting that the militancy is due to the legacy of AA.
Leadership that inspires staff to embrace change or help make change is surely lacking due to the system that embraces yes men and promotes people who for lack of their own vision are encouraged to toe the line without question.
One manager has said to me " it's not what I think or believe, but what I have to say"
In other words middle management are forced to go against what they may reason is correct, in order to keep their positions.
Perhaps as a work force we question too much the decision of management, however you can look at this as a disadvantage or a strength.
I personally see it as a strength.
Millions died in the WW1 in part as no one questioned the stupidity of the decisions made by blundering generals. 50 yrs or so later lives were saved in the Vietnam war by people saying " What the fcuk are we doing here"
Ironacly the people who know the business the best are often silenced by the the Management who think they should know best ! As that is their job.
For goodness sake, as a leader you don't have to know everything ! But you do have to have an ability to foster a team that comes up with the best answer to the problem.
I do not believe that the dragging out of the decision is due to the sycophant personality of management that you suggest. I think it is more due to the influences of politics and perhaps the inherent thought that their initial decision may not necessarily be the best.
Time will tell !

[Bagus]

In today Geelong advertiser,employee are feeling frustrated with what qantas is doing to them,the morale of all qantas employees are so low even passengers are questioning the check instaff to what qf is doing to their employees ,what a way to advertise qf,qf is bleeding and AJ has cause enough damage,all employees should voice out their opinion and start questioning their management,today it is maintenance,tomorrow other department will be targeted,all unions should now joined together and save qantas

[the_company_spy]

Tulla gone, Avalon to close within 2 years unless state gov. Invests according to the Australian.

[Sunfish]

Now reported by the AGE:

Qantas to sack 400 at Tullamarine: report
May 1, 2012 - 1:36AM

Qantas is set to axe 400 employees working in its heavy maintenance base at Tullamarine while another 660 are at risk at Avalon, News Limited reports.

The report said a review conducted by the airline concluded that the division at Tullamarine could not be saved and must close within months.

It also found that Avalon, near Geelong, was not viable beyond two years without major state government investment.
Advertisement: Story continues below

The report says the Tullamarine workers will be offered mining jobs in Western Australia during a careers information session at the hangar.

If the sackings go ahead it will continue a horror run of job losses in Victoria which include 350 jobs at Toyota, 50 workers sacked at rail operator Metro and, in March, Murray Goulburn Co-operative slashing 60 jobs by closing its milk powder drying operation.

AAP

Read more: Qantas to sack 400 at Tullamarine: report (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/qantas-to-sack-400-at-tullamarine-report-20120501-1xvjl.html#ixzz1tYFItG6b)

[Jet-A-One]

"Tullamarine workers will be offered mining jobs in Western Australia"

I hope this is not a way of the pricks getting out of paying full redundancy entitlements.

[Ultralights]

I hope this is not a way of the pricks getting out of paying full redundancy entitlements

sadly, Yes.

[Sunfish]

There is a special place in Hell for The Qantas Board and Management.

The ABC have just published the following:

Qantas is refusing to confirm or deny reports it is about to cut 400 heavy maintenance jobs at Melbourne airport.

In February the company announced it was reviewing maintenance operations at Tullamarine, Avalon and Brisbane.

This morning the airline released a statement saying its "significantly reduced" aircraft maintenance schedule means three maintenance bases are no longer needed.

The statement said a decision on how many jobs would go would be made by the middle of this month.

This morning, Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association spokesman Paul Cousins told the ABC no decision on the job cuts had yet been made.

But he said up to 500 jobs could be lost as Qantas consolidated its workforce from three maintenance facilities to two or possibly even one.

I can state categorically that the deliberate and premeditated announcements followed by feigned vacillation over the decision amounts to mental cruelty to its employees, both those that may be directly affected in Engineering and for the rest who can expect similar calculated cruelty when their time comes.

The "meta message" here is that Qantas regards its employees as beneath contempt, otherwise they would not do things this way. The excuse that they are in a bargaining war for State Govenment investment cuts no ice, since such discussions can and do get held in private.

If the Federal Government and opposition weren't composed of low life scum sucking filfth that enjoy the Qantas Chairmans lounge, they would call Qantas out over its behaviour and put a stop to it.

[frankthespanner]

I have a heavy Diesel background in the mines, i'm telling you now, Qantas engineers wouldn't last one day out there. who's going to relocate to bumfu*k nowhere and spend weeks at a time away from family? . I'm moving from Victoria to Queensland , this state's had it.

[Bagus]

Time to leave the country,government and companies pure greedy ,the reason why this news as state government is giving nothing,

[woollcott]

As usual, we all find it out in the media first - despite being promised by management that it would never happen.............

[IAW]

frankthespanner, not sure why you think "Qantas engineers" wouldn't last on a mine site??? Would be interested to hear your reasoning.

[frankthespanner]

I've worked for 18 years out in the "real" world, QF land is a fairytail compared to the life of a mine maintenance worker. Seriously ... do you really need to ask? .
Don't get me wrong, i have a respect for most engineers who are very skilled, but well payed jobs in the maintenance fields are few and far between, only the experienced heavy fitters will get this work.

[The Golden Rivet]

Frank the spanner.... Your a tool! :eek:

You wouldn't last one hour working in the hanger, what with reading manuals and performing tasks that maintain the standards set from differing levels of compliance as well as knowing that the thousands who fly on the one aircraft your working on daily will perform flawlessly until its next check, dream on dirt digger fixer.......

[frankthespanner]

MR Rivet, i'm a QF engineer, about to lose my job. I spent the first 18 years of my life in undergroung mines, but thanks for the abuse..

[Dockie]

I work at H/M Tulla and after 30 years with the airline I am sick to death of all the lies, threats and being treated with contempt and then asked to do an engagement survey. After I get the boot I know that I will never fly qantas again.:):):)

[Bagus]

If qf does all jetstar maintenance in Australia ,all skills and jobs could be save,unions get one voice and save Victorian jobs,if u have to march to the parliment so be it,this about a skills that Australia will never get back once lost,the government is naive and they don't understand,

[TIMA9X]

As usual, we all find it out in the media first - despite being promised by management that it would never happen............. Yep, and the media knew 10 days ago, and probably before that for some of them.

A very sad way to do business from the Qantas management and the government at all levels. Meanwhile the car industry gets the grants to continue production and is owned by foreign companies.. Doesn't make any sense to me, the guys and girls running the country are more interested in themselves and their job security rather than do what's right for all Australian families.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lyjciWlksDA/T58uL21e-DI/AAAAAAAABv4/PyVmdzFif4o/s1024/big_Convoy+Race+for+mining.jpg

[the rim]

frank-en-furter and golden rivet[i have seen one once] lets not attack each other in these hard and worrying times.......as frank said things are very different in the mines and as he stated there are some very skilled LAME's out there,so lets focus on the facts about 400 are about to loose their jobs or be offered a transfer to Brissy or the mines.....last look at the papers and QF still has not made a statement....lets see what they say....the rim

[The lens]

To Dockie and everyone,

Please, venting our frustrations on other remaining workers once we're gone is counterproductive and the wrong target.

If we hold in high regard those who today are our esteemed colleagues- in many parts of the company, known or unknown (but not necessarily of course upper management), then they deserve our support and encouragement all the more.

Let's act with dignity and with restraint, even if some elements of management don't.

It's all our mindset: we have a choice in how we think, behave and act. Go to bed each night knowing we didn't succumb to spite.

Keep calm and carry on.

[Bagus]

Opening of hangar at Manila and qantas consolidation process,what a coincidence

10.02.2012
Opening of new A380 hangar at Lufthansa Technik Philippines
Third widebody hangar in Manila
Lufthansa Technik Philippines (LTP), one of the largest providers of aircraft maintenance services in Asia, has opened a third hangar in Manila for work on widebody aircraft. With this step, the company is preparing for the technical support of the world’s largest commercial aircraft.
Lufthansa Technik Philippines, a joint venture between Lufthansa Technik (51%) and the Philippine MacroAsia Corporation (49%), invested USD 30 million in the construction of the new hangar, which is 8,500 square meters large and 35 meters in height. The new hangar offers space to work simultaneously on one widebody and two narrowbody aircraft.
"With the new hangar, we will be able to keep up with the increasing demand for technical services for long-haul aircraft, particularly in the Asian market," said Lufthansa Technik Chairman of the Executive Board, August Wilhelm Henningsen. "By adding A380 capability, it underscores Lufthansa Technik Philippines’ role as global aircraft overhaul center."
"The continuous growth of the company leads to up to 400 new highly-technology and high-skills jobs in addition to the existing jobs" explained Gerald Frielinghaus, President and CEO of LTP.
Eleven years after its founding, Lufthansa Technik Philippines, located at Manila's Ninoy Aquino International Airport, offers comprehensive technical services including lease return checks and cabin modification for the Airbus A330/A340 and A320 families and now also for the Airbus A380.

More information

Company portrait: Lufthansa Technik Philippines


Corporate Communications
Media contact

Facility of Lufthansa Technik Philippines in Manila

The new A380 hangar at Lufthansa Technik Phlippines

[Bagus]

MANILA, Philippines — Lufthansa Technik Philippines (LTP), a joint venture of Lufthansa Technik AG of Germany and Philippine aviation service provider MacroAsia Corporation, is now ready to service Airbus A380, the worlds’ largest and most technologically advanced commercial plane, after the completion of its $30-million new hangar that expanded its repair and maintenance capabilities.&@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Ausssie iron ore,Aussie steel but to build in Australia it cost 150 million.who are they bluffing

[frankthespanner]

Yes, it's a tough time, the wait is the hardest part - good luck everyone.

[hewlett]

Very disappointing decision although not unexpected in the least. This was telegraphed even before Bruce D RIP was in power. Vindicates the previous exec in their battle to maintain heavy in H245. Jobs in the mines probably courtesy of Clifford and his morale conscience... pr#*k! Best of luck to the tulla boys and the ALAEA exec. Maybe a move to where the weather's better is worth consideration?

[aveng]

invested USD 30 million in the construction of the new hangar

But I thought they cost $120 million? - according to QF management. Imagine the facility they could have built if they hadn't shut down the airline last year.:ugh:

[Ngineer]

Imagine the facility they could have built if they hadn't shut down the airline last year.:ugh:

A very good point AVENG. I guess it shows where their priorities lie.

[UPPERLOBE]

Priorities lying? Oop's, was the that the truth just popping up to say hello?

[griffin one]

Fourteen months of A380 reconfigs outsourced to Manilla LTP.
Five years worth of A380 rib boom repairs and modifications.
Shutting down Tulla.
Followed by shutting down Avalon.
Nil infrastructure investment.

Priceless

[Clipped]

Nil infrastructure investment.


You're being completely unfair G1.

Q management, after shutting down H245 eight years ago, are refurbishing the shed. Makes sense to me.

[griffin one]

My apologies Clipped i did overlook the New paint and strangely j* orange facade on H245.

[2p!ssed2drive]

Qantas is set to axe hundreds of jobs in Tullamarine and Avalon. Picture: Mark Smith
Taken from news.com.au

Hang about, it's how much?
QANTAS is set to axe 400 Victorian employees working in its heavy maintenance base at Tullamarine while another 660 are at risk at Avalon.
The Herald Sun said a review conducted by the airline concluded that the division at Tullamarine could not be saved and must close within months.

It also found that Avalon, near Geelong, was not viable beyond two years without major state government investment.

The paper says the Tullamarine workers will be offered mining jobs in Western Australia during a careers information session at the hangar.

If the sackings go ahead it will continue a horror run of job losses in Victoria which include 350 jobs at Toyota, 50 workers sacked at rail operator Metro and, in March, Murray Goulburn Co-operative slashing 60 jobs by closing its milk powder drying operation.

Who said they want to work in mining?!

[SpannerTwister]

I fear that if workers are offered a job in the mines, and refuse it, then it could be counted as "resigning" and not being made redundant ?

"Hey, we had a job for you to go to, and YOU knocked it back"

ST

[Nudlaug]

The REAL bad thing about the whole situation, even worse than the job losses, is the way management are going about it. I have NEVER in my whole life seen a management treat their employees with such utter contempt inflicting as much uncertainty and pain as possible, it is an absolute disgrace by any standards. Sunfish may have a point with his narcissist theory.....
Changes need to happen from time to time, agreed... But the way those changes are implemented is complete Bull:mad:
The airline should be grounded immediately due to all the various human factors at play at the moment

[another superlame]

If Julia f$%#en Gillard took her balls out of her husbands handbag and acted in the interests of her constituents in Geelong,then maybe things could be different.

[unionist1974]

No consolatuion , but redundancy payments will have to be made . QF cannot avoid them. Its been a long time coming but the writing has been on the wall at Tulla for years . Poorly managed facility for many years an "old boys"club , cosy relationships between all levels who fough tany cahange to imptove the place. Sad , but it was always on the cards as long as they buried their heads .Feel so sad for the young guys , no future

[ampclamp]

superlame , successive govts for many, many years have showered taxpayer largesse at car makers in this country and they still cry poor and sack people. maybe they should reconsider where that cash goes and support a hi tech industry with strategic importance.Attach some heavy duty strings to it to keep it onshore.

[QF94]

If Julia f$%#en Gillard took her balls out of her husbands handbag and acted in the interests of her constituents in Geelong,then maybe things could be different.

another superlame, this was Australia's biggest mistake to half-vote for a Federal government that was backed by the NSW branch of Labor. We saw what they did to NSW and now they're doing it federally. Look at who's foreign minister now. He stuffed NSW, left it in a mess, went to Macquarie Bank (who own Sydney Airport and the rail link and the M5 and Lime taxis) on a healthy package, and is now foreign minister.

I know what I'm about to say will upset a few union people and leaders on this forum, but Labor has to go. They were thumped in NSW last year and sent into oblivion in QLD this year. Our current Prime Minister (and I have to call her that because she occupies the office) was not elected as PM. She rolled a democratically elected PM in June 2010 together with the abovementioned NSW Labor and Victorian Labor branches. Went to an election in October 2010 and was not voted as PM. Deals were done with the Greens and three idiots to get her over the line. There isn't enough time in the night for me to rant about this current government, so I won't. The facts speak for themsleves.

When a Labor government, or any government for that matter, has to do dirty deals to get itself into minority power, it doesn't deserve to be in power at all.

Until we get a government, of any persuasion, that will actually run the country for the benefit of the country and its people that is when things will change for the better, and not a moment sooner.

[QF94]

Quote:
Nil infrastructure investment. You're being completely unfair G1.

Q management, after shutting down H245 eight years ago, are refurbishing the shed. Makes sense to me.

Only to be knocked down in the next few years to make way for new terminals under the new airport plan. A real brainiac of an idea that one!

[SOPS]

I really dont want this to happpen, but I think they are trying really hard to get rid of QANTAS. I still do understand why, and at a time it was an airline that I so so wanted to work for.....I am very sad..................

[UPPERLOBE]

@QF94...

Mate sorry to be the cynic, but the days of charismatic politicians who actually do what the public wants are over. All we have now are two teams one red and one blue who bow and scrape to the whim of the media, the rich and of course their own self interest in looking out for themselves once their day in the sun is over.

Forget the green team they will be back in their box after the landslide.

[TheWholeEnchilada]

I really dont want this to happpen, but I think they are trying really hard to get rid of QANTAS. I still do understand why,
Qantas is not an airline, it is a hedge fund. The APA bid never went away, it just morphed into a capital lite LBO due to the GFC and the drying up of credit. What you are watching is a more sophisticated camouflage for the old asset strip.

Read the book "Hard Landing" by Thomas Petzinger Jr - (a used copy is less than US$1+postage), documenting the US deregulation experience. A small group of executives and private equity investors walked away as billionaires, while the rest of industry ended up destitute. This book provides many templates for seizing control, and destroying airlines for personal profit.

The cash flows from the international & domestic operation are being used to construct a stable of new airlines in jurisdictions with far less transparency and control for the shareholder. There are a myriad of opportunities for "third parties" to provide services to this stable of airlines. In effect, these airlines can be reduced to clients of these service providers. Who will own those "third party" providers?

http://images.smh.com.au/2012/03/30/3175508/qantaslead-420x0.jpg
http://images.smh.com.au/2012/03/30/3175508/qantaslead-420x0.jpg
http://images.smh.com.au/2012/03/30/3175508/qantaslead-420x0.jpg
http://images.smh.com.au/2012/03/30/3175508/qantaslead-420x0.jpg

[another superlame]

Another nail in the coffin is the fact that QF have sent OQD to Manila for a reconfig plus wing inspections and repairs plus lightning strike repairs. Plus the IFE WiFi Satcom upgrade.
All this with no Qantas LAMEs to over see the operation. No Airbus field support engineers.
All this to a facility that has not yet seen an A380 in anger.
It can end 2 ways, in tears for all the QF managers trying to save a peso, who the have to explain why the aircraft is parked in Sydney for a week on its return

or

It is a blinding success, it does 2 flights before things go bad.

What a way to treat your "flagship". No supervision of work carried out by a MRO keen on a profit.

Having said all that, the new cabin interior manager in Sydney who has made lots of friends of late is going to be there for the end of the check to make sure the cabin is up to scratch.
I sure hope is tank training is also up to date.

[QF94]

@another superlame,

Another nail in the coffin is the fact that QF have sent OQD to Manila for a reconfig plus wing inspections and repairs plus lightning strike repairs. Plus the IFE WiFi Satcom upgrade.
All this with no Qantas LAMEs to over see the operation. No Airbus field support engineers.
All this to a facility that has not yet seen an A380 in anger.
It can end 2 ways, in tears for all the QF managers trying to save a peso, who the have to explain why the aircraft is parked in Sydney for a week on its return

You forget that these new generation aircraft don't require the maintenance the older aircraft once needed. Not in Australia anyway.

I hope they fix the RAT on that aircraft while it's up there, if it hasn't been fixed yet. It takes a bit of time to blow dry the RAT every transit.

The coffin for QANTAS is pretty well nailed shut. It's just waiting for the eulogy before being lowered into the grave. The eulogy, for those close to QANTAS would be:

Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow - Walking Beside Us...Always

QANTAS, shared our lives for many years and we will always hold its memory as a keepsake in our heart.

As we look back at the yesterdays that we shared with you - we remember with gratitude; we remember with a saddened yet happy heart.

We will always look back on our time with you and we will always think of you with love, friendship, courage and admiration!

And today as we sit in the silence, we feel you still, ever near.

As we sit here, we miss you - but not with a burdened heart and a bowed head.

We miss you for the laughter we shared; we miss you for friendships forged; we miss you in the defiant moments when you stood your ground - resolute in your faith and purpose...and we miss you, each of us in our own personal ways, for all the special intangible ways that you touched our hearts - ways that cannot be defined by words.

Memories of you mold easily to our hearts - familiar, comforting...part of us!

QANTAS - you have taken the last step on your journey home and although you may be gone...you will never be forgotten.

In the tomorrows still to come you will walk beside us in the sunshine and the rain; we will speak your name often...and we will close our eyes and smile...because you lived!

[ConcernedLAME]

Has it been confirmed no QF LAMES are to be present during the A380 reconfig in MNL ...

[Redstone]

Yes, 100%.

[ConcernedLAME]

When will QF learn.....good luck to you guys in Base and cabin interior in Syd to pick up the pieces when it comes back ...Be sure to document all anomalies through the correct channels ...

[QF94]

@ ConcernedLame

When will QF learn.....good luck to you guys in Base and cabin interior in Syd to pick up the pieces when it comes back ...Be sure to document all anomalies through the correct channels ...

QF management will NEVER learn as they're lucky to have two brain cells between them to collide and cause a spark. The level of arrogance to say they have wronged or they'll learn from past mistakes prevents this from happening.

Yes, the pieces will be left to be picked up when the aircraft comes back. As has been the case since aircraft were maintained outside of QANTAS.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Yes, the pieces will be left to be picked up when the aircraft comes back. As has been the case since aircraft were maintained outside of QANTAS.



and the job numbers will go down to a department in Australia making them look inefficient. The real cost of the reconfig never recorded against the Asian facility.

[QF94]

Quote:
Yes, the pieces will be left to be picked up when the aircraft comes back. As has been the case since aircraft were maintained outside of QANTAS.
and the job numbers will go down to a department in Australia making them look inefficient. The real cost of the reconfig never recorded against the Asian facility.

This is the whole story of how International operations are made to look inefficient. All costs placed against it, made to look like it's in a sorry state (sorrier than it really is) and then reduce it to next to nothing so as to make JQ look good and take over QF's routes, when in fact it's QF carrying the load of the overseas facilities and JQ.

[emudodo]

For God's sake when are these idiots going to wake up? If as we all suspect mainline is making money, but by using what can only be called"False Accounting" it is holding afloat the orange cancer and being made to look as though it is bleeding heavily. Can they not see that by degrading the mainline operation to the point that it in fact does not make money, THEN THEIR ORANGE LOVECHILD WILL ALSO WITHER AND DIE AS THERE WON'T BE ANYTHIG TO KEEP IT AFLOAT. Jeez it ain't rocket science.

And as a side note I would almost bet part of my anatomy on the Domestic operation now being claimed to be underperforming (Guess What it's EBA time again) well according to those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, that is.

I'm past caring but I do have two lads working there and I fear for their future.

The whole industry started down the slippery slide when these accounto/business types got into the operation with no background in Aviation, no Avgas/Avtur in their veins and only focussed on their KPI's and short term bonus driven mantra's, wormed their way to the top and proved almost exclusively that they didn't have a clue.
Amazingly they almost all jump ship just prior to it going down and pop up in another operator they see as ripe for the picking. eg see how many ex AN people are now in JQ or QF happly heading in the well worn, well known path....some people just never learn.

It grieves me to see where the industry is at the moment as when I started in the industry in 1966 things looked so good...how they have changed, for the worse:ugh:

I just hope that the incompetence at the upper echelons is recognized and cleaned out while there is still time to right the ship and get it back to it's glory days..........Rant Over

[QF94]

Can't agree enough with you emu!

[Short_Circuit]

Making QF international appear to loose money whilst propping up Jet* and outsourced maintenance is a tool to see QF share price remain low and Jet* look like a good buy,
Once sold, Jet* not propped up by QF Jet* fails.
The board invent some meaningless "change" in QF international and it is suddenly making a profit, so the board earn yet another bonus and cheap share options now worth a motsa. And got rid of those pesky engineers to boot..
:=

[Alien Role]

QF 94 - You have encaptured the sentiments and distressed feelings of 16,000 former Ansett employees..........

Role on..

[QF94]

QF 94 - You have encaptured the sentiments and distressed feelings of 16,000 former Ansett employees..........

Role on..

The day Ansett disappeared was a dark day in Australia's aviation history and should never have happened. Sure there were rivalries, but that's what made the Australian aviation industry what it was. Robust, competitive, and employees on each side had pride, loyalty and ownership of THEIR airline.

As much as it pains me to see it happening again at QANTAS, I believe there will be a fight to keep it going as long as possible, as there is a lot of pride still left in QANTAS employees including ex-Ansett people who don't want to be involved in round 2 of another airline going under, or struggling for an extended period of time because of a few rotten people that occupy the QF board.

[Alien Role]

QF94 - hit the nail on the head, buddy !!

Role on...

[hewlett]

Does anyone know what Aircraft Structural ContractorsPty Ltd are like to work for ? They recently had an ad for LAME / AME all trades for all a/c in QF fleet and then some. Director has some vague conx to QF.

[Jethro Gibbs]

They are just collecting resumes for there files wont answer any questions my guess they have no real work anyway.
These joints are popping up everywhere usually run by one bloke operating out of his kitchen.

[Clipped]

These joints are popping up everywhere usually run by one bloke operating out of his kitchen.

And a Qantas manager not too far away ready to do a deal?

Methinks we will be seeing outfits like this picking up the HM slack and maybe some of our own LM work.

Any news (rumours) on the HM announcement?

[hewlett]

Judging by the website, already active in MRTT, Virgin, defense. Director ex HM ohs rep (QF?) and structures credentialed. R.Pe--ival office Caboolture QLD

[Jethro Gibbs]

The pictures on there web site could have come from any where on the net means nothing in reality.
Beware if you submit your details as they have sent out e mails before Cc to every address in there address book great if you did not want others to know you were looking.:mad:

[catonahottinroof]

The Corporate Media’s Attempt to Kill the Occupy Movement





by Truthout (http://www.care2.com/causes/author/truthout)
May 9, 2012
7:30 pm
5 comments (http://www.care2.com/causes/the-corporate-medias-attempt-to-kill-the-occupy-movement.html#comments) http://dingo.care2.com/pictures/causes/2939/2938570.large.jpg

Written by Michael Corcoran and Stephen Maher (http://truth-out.org/news/item/8965-the-corporate-medias-attempt-to-kill-the-occupy-movement)
This May Day brought the explosive global resurgence of Occupy, one of the most significant social movement in decades. In New York City, the heart of global capitalism and center of the movement, the New York Civil Liberties Union estimated that 30,000 demonstrators (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/may/02/occupy-wall-street-panel-may-day?newsfeed=true) took part in a massive rally and march down Broadway, led by a score of city taxicabs. As has become alarmingly common for a country that constantly proclaims its zealous devotion to democracy, the day ended with brutal police violence and arrests.
The visible success of Occupy in creating a space for the voice of the people impelled uncontrolled thousands to pour onto the streets of New York City, Oakland, and elsewhere around the country and across the world on May Day, in the start of what US organizers have called an “American Spring.” Touting its message of class solidarity–”we are the 99 percent” – Occupy has revealed the profoundly undemocratic nature of a democratic consensus expressed by corporate-sponsored political representatives, demanding direct popular involvement in areas of social and political life normally dominated by ruling class power.
The powerful rejuvenation of the Occupy movement, however, was used by the US media – owned by the very same interests that Occupy directly threatens (http://www.freepress.net/ownership/chart) – as an opportunity to finally kill the Occupy movement and marginalize the voices of its participants. Since September, the mainstream press in the US has systematically ignored (http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=4405) and demonized (http://truth-out.org/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=4895:smear-campaigns-fuel-shutdowns-of-occupations-across-country) the Occupy movement. The nakedness of the class bias in this case, however, was especially jarring: the size and significance of the protests were downplayed, reports of police brutality were largely ignored, and the movement was portrayed as violent and dangerous. Many of the most prominent US news outlets, such as The New York Times, practically ignored the protests altogether. These shameful distortions by the corporate press display the function of the media as an organ of the rule of “the 1 percent,” and reveal how threatened elites are by organized, direct action and democratic participation.
While tens of thousands of activists took to the streets on May Day, the only prominent mention of economic inequality on the homepage of The New York Times web site was titled “A Wealthy Guy’s Case for Inequality (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/06/magazine/romneys-former-bain-partner-makes-a-case-for-inequality.html?_r=3&hpw),” written by a former associate of Mitt Romney at Bain Capital. The Times, in fact, did not even cover the protests as a national story, instead merely producing a brief and dismissive 400-word article (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/02/nyregion/may-day-demonstrations-lead-to-clashes-and-arrests.html) buried in the “Paper of Record’s” Metro section. Predictably, the article focused mostly on the wickedness of the demonstrators, who “snarled traffic and smashed windows.” The Times did see fit to cover May Day protests (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/02/world/europe/austerity-intensifies-may-day-protests-in-europe.html) in Europe in its international section, but here, too, no connection was made to protests of a nearly identical nature and size at home. In other words, since “the march was too big to allow Occupy Wall Street to continue to be reduced to a dog-and-pony show (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/may/02/occupy-wall-street-panel-may-day?newsfeed=true),” as Occupy Handbook editor Janet Byrne said, the Times simply chose to ignore it altogether.
The Washington Post adopted a similar approach, producing just one short story (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/occupy-movement-returns-for-may-day-protests-in-dc-new-york-and-around-us/2012/05/01/gIQASDqQvT_story.html), also exiled to the local section, which likewise took great pains to amplify claims of “reports of violent clashes on the West Coast.” It is telling that while these major national papers were outraged by some broken windows, they ignored the thuggish attacks by the police on both coasts on peacefully assembled human beings.
The Tea Party, a movement which serves rather than threatens corporate interests, has received front-page coverage (http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3955) in virtually all of the nation’s national newspapers for events that were smaller and less significant than this week’s May Day protests. Yet, a truly substantial social movement with genuine emancipatory potential and a broad base of support among Americans is largely considered un-newsworthy by the corporate press. When the demonstrations were covered, crude caricatures masquerading as objective news ruled the day.
Those outlets that bothered to note the nationwide outpouring at all did so mostly to exaggerate reports of vandalism in Seattle (described as acts of “violence” in the mainstream press), portraying a peaceful movement as chaotic and violent. Other examples of May Day coverage had stories gleefully predicting the demise of the Occupy movement. “Occupy Resurgence is a Dud (http://www.reuters.com/video/2012/05/01/occupy-wall-street-resurgence-a-dud?videoId=234276781),” announced a Reuters video report that came out early on Tuesday. Occupy, the report declared, “did not have any movement left,” and “lacks one clear message everyday Americans can rally behind.” Interestingly, a tweet from Reuters (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/01/may-day-occupy-protests-live?newsfeed=true) would later discredit their own report, reporting, “Occupy Wall Street resurgence far from being a dud.” CNN.com, likewise, published an article that labored to explain “Why Occupy May Day fizzled (http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/02/opinion/etzioni-occupy-tea-party/index.html).” The article proclaimed, “Occupy Wall Street movement, with its fuzzy messages and vague goals, is not going to leave a major mark.” The author did not bother to explain how “We are the 99 percent” is a “fuzzy message.”
May Day has long been known in the United States as the working-class holiday which the state refuses to recognize. This May Day, too, President Obama issued a pro forma injunction that we honor “Loyalty Day (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/05/01/presidential-proclamation-loyalty-day-2012)” by hanging the flag or pledging allegiance to the republic for which it stands. But what might be unexpected by those who take the professed values of that republic seriously is the degree to which our “free press” has followed suit – not to mention the state’s brutally violent response to a genuinely democratic, popular movement seeking to build a more egalitarian, participatory society.
Occupy is arguably at its most critical juncture since the eviction of Zuccotti Park and the effort by the media to portray Occupy as a toothless shell of its former self is not without potential consequences. It is vital that it be understood that the media are not any more neutral in the war being fought on the streets of our cities than are the corporations that own it. Occupiers can expect no favors from the American media, which will continue to serve their corporate owners and not the public at large. This means that the occupiers must expect to struggle mightily for their view of the world – and even their very presence – to break into mainstream political discourse. The narrative that “Occupy is dead” is merely the latest salvo by the 1 percent. We must not let them get away with it.
This post was originally published by Truthout (http://truth-out.org/news/item/8965-the-corporate-medias-attempt-to-kill-the-occupy-movement).



Read more: The Corporate Media's Attempt to Kill the Occupy Movement | Care2 Causes (http://www.care2.com/causes/the-corporate-medias-attempt-to-kill-the-occupy-movement.html#ixzz1uSW1sm2W)

[the rim]

WTF is this ....what are you on....get back to the thread there is a real threat to the "core"work that qf does and these companies are popping up asking who is interested in working for them .....now make no bones about it in the future this is what you will be working for, there will be no Qantas Engineering only a shell company working for Qantas same with all other divisions of Qf ....what can we do about it.....NOTHING unfortunally this is the way they are "moving forward"if you think holding mass meetings holding hands and singing will stop them,well you should be off in the loony bin .......The Rim

[dom butt monkey]

hey rim i agree sitting around singing kum-ba-yah or what ever it is will achieve nothing we are going to be f&&ked over ....bring it on and see whats going to happen because telling the company what is down the road for them is no good as the managers that are in place now wont be there latter.....we all know what they are trying to do to Qantas and the likes of us will not stop it....even the goverment is behind it

[jasper289]

Is there any genuine reason for the delay in making the announcement re HM or is it just the narcissistic B******S making every one squirm some more.\
:=:=:=:=:yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

[Jethro Gibbs]

The slow bake goes on no news this really is bultish:mad::mad:

[Redpanda]

Decision was supposed to be announced today.............

Maybe the idiots in management are waiting on the JHAS announcement???

[LAME2]

Maybe the JHAS and QE announcements are related in content together? They need to speak "from the same page" if so.

[The lens]

Lord Falkland's Rule:

When it is not nessary to make a decision, it is necessary not to make a decision.

[genxfrog]

Senior Management too incompetent to make announcement themselves.....will pay consultancy firm megabucks to do it instead maybe??

[Bagus]

The problem in management who will make the decision,they must be deliberating

[TIMA9X]

will pay consultancy firm megabucks to do it instead maybe?or let GT have the scoop?

May 16, 2012, 6:33 am

700 Qantas engineers to go - The West Australian (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/13696283/700-qantas-engineers-to-go/)
Geoffrey Thomas Aviation Editor, The West Australian
700 Qantas engineers to go

At least 700 Qantas engineering staff are expected to lose their jobs over the next three years as part of a major restructure of the airline's maintenance operations.


An announcement - the result of the dramatic reduction in man hours required to maintain modern planes and the moving of more maintenance offshore - was due about the middle of the month and insiders suggest it is imminent.
The airline is expected to close its Tullamarine overhaul centre at Melbourne Airport and consolidate it in Brisbane and shut its Avalon centre, near Geelong, which performs mainly refurbishment work.
The Qantas Group will next year start taking delivery of its fleet of Boeing 787 planes, which require half the maintenance of the planes they will replace - the Boeing 767s.


These planes and other new models, such as the A380 and A330, are now self-diagnostic, slashing hours off the time required to identify problems.
Last year, the airline fought a long-running battle with the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association and pilots and baggage handlers over job security.


After Qantas grounded the airline and forced the disputes to Fair Work Australia, the ALAEA quickly came to a four-year deal with Qantas, accepting a 3 per cent pay increase which was in line with all Qantas staff.
While the deal cemented job security for existing job functions, these are now being reduced because new planes such as the A380 are being maintained overseas by Lufthansa Technik, the world's biggest maintenance provider.
The problem for Qantas is that the A380 fleet of just 14 planes is too small to make onshore maintenance viable because of the high cost of the infrastructure support required.


Many airlines are opting to have their A380s maintained by Lufthansa Technik, which has state-of-the-art facilities for its 600 airline, corporate and government customers around the globe.
ALAEA Federal secretary Steve Purvinas said that the union had been "trying to get a viable solution that would enable the A380s to be maintained onshore".


"Qantas are spending money on facilities offshore that could be spent in Australia." Mr Purvinas said. "Presentations shown to us by Qantas indicate between 700 and 1200 engineer positions will go."


Qantas employs a total of 5000 engineering and support staff.
With Tullamarine and Avalon centres closed, all Qantas heavy maintenance will be performed in Brisbane.


No Perth-based engineers are expected to be affected.
Qantas has been sending maintenance work offshore for decades and it is a standard practice in the industry.

Typically, Qantas uses Luft- hansa, Singapore Airlines or Cathay Pacific Airways facilities

[Jethro Gibbs]

When did Avalon Airport Chief executive Justin Giddings decide that he should negotiate on behalf of Qantas and Forstaff employees they don,t even work for him or the company he represents Linfox.:ugh::mad:
Avalon delivers final pitch to Qantas | Geelong, VIC, Australia (http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2012/05/17/326741_news.html)

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

I would imagine a pitch from Linfox would include some cuts to the price for use of the facility. I don't think he would have been talking about the workforce.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Exactly that's what the article should say the airport CEO is either making out he is doing much more or the Geelong Advertiser is just not doing its research again in any case cost of Hangar rental at Avalon has never really been bought up as part of this anyway has it ?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

It has been brought up in some sense. Qantas have continually told us a 380 hangar is out of the question because it would cost $105m for one bay and $175m for two.

We got quotes to show they would be $27m and $33m respectively built at Avalon. I don't know but maybe Linfox have said they will build them and give Qf free leasing for 10 years.

[SpannerTwister]

Avalon delivers final pitch to Qantas | Geelong, VIC, Australia (http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2012/05/17/326741_news.html)


Spokesman Luke Enright said yesterday the airline remained on track to make an announcement during the next week.
Mr Giddings said the State Government had been active during the negotiations.
"As I understand it, though, what they've done for us they've done for Tullamarine," he said.
Qantas workers remained in the dark yesterday on the likely timing of a Qantas announcement.


ST

[Jethro Gibbs]

"As I understand it, though, what they've done for us they've done for Tullamarine," he said.
That could mean Nothing :ugh:

[Bagus]

If qantas wants to get rid of engineers,they at least should provide training on other aircraft types so that if these guys want to apply jobs in jetstar or virgin or even wants to get a job in emirates they would be happy to leave.i hope alaea would pressure the government and qantas to provide training on other aircraft types,as there are guys coming to Australia on 457 visa because they got a380 and 330 and getting jobs here.

[QF94]

@Bagus

If qantas wants to get rid of engineers,they at least should provide training on other aircraft types so that if these guys want to apply jobs in jetstar or virgin or even wants to get a job in emirates they would be happy to leave.i hope alaea would pressure the government and qantas to provide training on other aircraft types,as there are guys coming to Australia on 457 visa because they got a380 and 330 and getting jobs here.

You're dreaming. QANTAS is hard-pressed to train anyone they want to keep, let alone train people that they're going to get rid of. Why would they spend money on those they want to get rid of and give the other carriers or organisations a free goal?

All in all, QANTAS of late has been loathe to train anyone, except out of sheer necessity. QANTAS have a heap of A340 and 777 trained guys that used to certify customer aircraft once upon a time. There is no need to train anyone else.

[genxfrog]

Wednesday 23rd is the date scheduled for the announcement now......that is until those incompetent fools postpone it again.

[Cargo744]

Put your faith in Steve and the Alea! He is the messiah

[empire4]

Unions are destroying Australian businesses. No offense Steve, but seriously the it is all going to collapse.

[Jet-A-One]

The sooner we get rid of all those bloody workers by outsourcing all their work overseas or replacing them with casuals on 457 visas the better hey empire4.

I'm sure there'll be plenty of management jobs for your kids too mate.

Crawl back under your rock.

[Arnold E]

Unions are destroying Australian businesses.

Name 5 that have been destroyed by unions and explain how they did it. If you cant, or, wont do that, then you are just engaging in good old union bashing.

[ampclamp]

I'd bet more businesses have been stripped/ sent broke/ dismantled/ run down by brainless / selfish/ inept / corrupt business leaders than unions. Or a combo of said characteristics. Unions have caused trouble in the past but to suggest it is still a big problem is ridiculous.

[tgbgtgb]

It has been brought up in some sense. Qantas have continually told us a 380 hangar is out of the question because it would cost $105m for one bay and $175m for two.

We got quotes to show they would be $27m and $33m respectively built at Avalon. I don't know but maybe Linfox have said they will build them and give Qf free leasing for 10 years. Was that just a building and doors for that price? That seems rather cheap for a shed, docking, gear pits etc. I would suggest the qantas quote included those plus GSE, tooling, phones, computers and most of the stuff required to make a major maintenance check happen.

[airsupport]

I'd bet more businesses have been stripped/ sent broke/ dismantled/ run down by brainless / selfish/ inept / corrupt business leaders than unions. Or a combo of said characteristics. Unions have caused trouble in the past but to suggest it is still a big problem is ridiculous.

Fairly safe bet that, especially in Aviation, Ansett and Southern Cross perfect examples. :(:(:(

[Jethro Gibbs]

We got quotes to show they would be $27m and $33m respectively built at
Avalon. I don't know but maybe Linfox have said they will build them and give Qf
free leasing for 10 years.

Heard Lindsay Fox talking about his business Australia wide and Asia on Melbourne radio on Friday and there is no way he will be funding that let alone free leasing it .
Aint going to happen.

[empire4]

Jet-A-one, If you have read any of my previous posts you would know I'm a big advocate of eliminating 457 visas and outsourcing in general. It will be even more important now that QF will put about 600 people in our industry out of a job.

I have been very critical in the past about the ALAEA not pursuing the Government to remove or not allow foreign Engineers here. I have been told this is too hard and they can not control the skills shortage list.

It disturbs me that a place like JHAS will pay European people to relocate, pay the license conversion and have them not signing for months rather than train a local. Unfortunately this seems to be on the lower side of any unions priorities.

See for yourself, page 3 and has been there for years. http://www.deewr.gov.au/Employment/LMI/SkillShortages/Documents/SSL_AUS.pdf (http://www.deewr.gov.au/Employment/LMI/SkillShortages/Documents/SSL_AUS.pdf)

Now whilst I disagree with what QF are doing, you have to step outside and see that old legacy airline work practices such as 2 man push backs (some stations), Radio LAME's and Avionic LAME's sitting in the crew room etc are not efficient. You are after all competing with airlines such as Singapore and Emirates. I do agree with such things as having a LAME at every A/C transit. Safety cannot be compromised and this is something that Joyce doesn't get.

The unions objective is to get you better T&C's......Right? So, If you get more money and the company wants you to do more, does this mean those T&C's have improved? Maybe not. It definitely means nothing but extra cost for the company if QF have old, outdated and inefficient practices in everyday operations which are not eliminated. Australia's non-skilled work force is far too over paid, which then in turn drives prices up, skilled wages up and hurts local business. Most Australian Unions represent non-skilled to low skilled workers. How do these things benefit a company trying to make money?

If you are off the belief that the union is looking after YOUR best interests, then you are greatly misguided and I hope you see the light soon. The very fact that the ALAEA represents AME's and other tradies at AVALON is enough for you to work this out. Massive conflict in interest.

[Bagus]

The flying public thinks that qantas outsource only 10% maintenance jobs offshore ,they don't realize that jetstar is part of qantas group and they outsource 90% offshore,what a con job created by Joyce.

[Jet-A-One]

empire4, I have read some of your posts and I agree with a lot (certainly not ALL) of what you say. In fact I am quite surprised in your opinion of the ALAEA. (your opinion of other unions I couldn't give a sh1t about)

Let me assure you I have absolute faith in those that run the ALAEA, as do all members I know. There are plenty of reasons we have the coverage we do across our profession Australia wide.

You are intitled to your opinion but I think it is you that is "misguided" mate.

[600ft-lb]

Qantas will, in 5 years time, outsource

All A380 heavy maintenance
All B787 heavy maintenance
All B737 OR A330 heavy maintenance
All engine overhaul
All component overhaul

Jetstar will outsource most of its A320 heavy maintenance if the status quo remains, all of it if they have their way.

There will be a token force somewhere in MEL/AVV or BNE.

The Sydney aircraft maintenance section, as per the SACL plans will be relocated, the current 13 or so hangar bays, will be torn down and relocated apparently. But a 2 bay A380 hangar costs over $100 million apparently. I can't imagine them wanting to spend $300-400+ million on new hangar facilities to comply with the following;

1.3 Location of Principal Operational Centre
Of the facilities, taken in aggregate, which are used by Qantas in the provision of scheduled
international air transport services (for example, facilities for the maintenance and housing of Aircraft,
catering, marketing, flight operations, training and administration), the facilities located in Australia,
when compared with those located in any other country, must represent the principal centre of
operations of Qantas. [Qantas Sale Act s.7(1)(h)]So it seems to me they have found a legal argument to circumvent the sale act, which is probably the last thing that needs to be tested in a court of law. Perhaps it depends on how the wording is interpreted. Is it the services individually or the services as a whole.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Qantas will, in 5 years time, outsource

All A380 heavy maintenance
All B787 heavy maintenance
All B737 OR A330 heavy maintenance
All engine overhaul
All component overhaul

Jetstar will outsource most of its A320 heavy maintenance if the status quo remains, all of it if they have their way.

There will be a token force somewhere in MEL/AVV or BNE.



Qantas will also repeat over and over that - we carry out over 90% of our maintenance onshore. It will be true because the Aviation expert will repeat several times on Sunrise.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

I have been very critical in the past about the ALAEA not pursuing the Government to remove or not allow foreign Engineers here. I have been told this is too hard and they can not control the skills shortage list.



I don't blame you for being angry about this, I am too. It's not the ALAEA's fault though that the Liberal Government legislated 457 options and then put aircraft maintenance workers on the list. We've written and complained about it but it's not our decision to have our profession removed from the list. Maybe they will consider it again if there are people looking for jobs by the end of this week.

[Arnold E]

Maybe they will consider it again if there are people looking for jobs by the end of this week.

There are already people looking for jobs and they cant get them because the market is flooded with guys bailing out of QANTAS....... Fact

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Now whilst I disagree with what QF are doing, you have to step outside and see that old legacy airline work practices such as 2 man push backs (some stations), Radio LAME's and Avionic LAME's sitting in the crew room etc are not efficient. You are after all competing with airlines such as Singapore and Emirates. I do agree with such things as having a LAME at every A/C transit. Safety cannot be compromised and this is something that Joyce doesn't get.


Well before any PIA took place during the dispute of last year the ALAEA offered Qantas pretty much what you suggested here. We offered, no transit check, no LAME on departure but we demanded there be one for each arrival so we could fix the broken ones. Qantas said no because they want everything and more. Don't think that the ALAEA incapable of being co-operative or progressive.

Representing AMEs and LAMEs together is not a conflict of interest. Both groups have long sought one representing body. AMEs currently sit in big unions and the aviation sectors are about 1% of the membership of that union. What say do you think they get and how much do you think their leaders know about our industry?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Was that just a building and doors for that price? That seems rather cheap for a shed, docking, gear pits etc. I would suggest the qantas quote included those plus GSE, tooling, phones, computers and most of the stuff required to make a major maintenance check happen.


I'd post the quote up here if I had more time to work out how. The price for a bare hangar with door, concrete, fire system, Jacking points, tail dock, design etc... is $16,129,700.

Extra $10,000,000 US also gets Fuse dock, wing dock, engine docks, hydro jacks, engine hoists, 4 x 90kva power units and removeable engine stands.

Quote does not include computers or phones. They may cost an extra $50k but knowing Qantas they would shop around and find them for $6m.

[QF94]

Quote does not include computers or phones. They may cost an extra $50k but knowing Qantas they would shop around and find them for $6m.

Hey, I'll do it at a great discount for $1m!

[Ngineer]

Radio LAME's and Avionic LAME's sitting in the crew room etc are not efficient.

You mean B2 guys sitting in the smoko room watching B1 guys trying to do their work........ Well who's fault is that?

[AWB_Clerk]

You mean B2 guys sitting in the smoko room watching B1 guys trying to do their work........ Well who's fault is that?

Possibly the people that poo-pooed the idea of composite crews?

AWBC

[Ozcan]

Sorry ALAEA Fed Sec, AME's will never trust the ALAEA to act in anyone's interest but LAME's. I don't recall you kicking up a stink when all of the Tech Officers from Aircraft Airworthiness were told their jobs would move to Sydney earlier this year. All the AME's would be for you would be headcount and dues! :mad:

[blackhand]

You mean B2 guys sitting in the smoko room watching B1 guys trying to do their work........ Well who's fault is that?

The B2 work or the B1 work??
BH

[Long Bay Mauler]

Its official- Tullamarine is gone.

Vale & Condolences to those in Heavy. Best of luck.

[Transition Layer]

Released to the ASX this morning

Qantas to consolidate Heavy Maintenance Facilities (http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20120521/pdf/426ctlzyv6xjpm.pdf)

[airsupport]

I know a Bloke who reduced the Maintenance/Servicing costs on his car by about 60% :ok: saved him a lot of money :ok: but now he is always complaining because it breaks down all the time and is a death trap. :(

At least he can (usually) pull over to the side of the road and wait for help, hard to do with an Aircraft at 30,000 feet. :(

[Long Bay Mauler]

Just thinking that the timing is interesting about this announcement about Heavy,as it coincides exactly with Craig Thomson speaking in Parliament.

Guess which will have the greater front page coverage? And it probably won't be the poor Qantas workers,except maybe in Melbourne.

[Motorola]

Why did the ALAEA sign an EA deal and not try for some job security at arbitration?

[lamem]

One of the biggest points pushed by the ALAEA at the last EBA was for job security. The company would not even consider it. This is all part of a much bigger and longer term agenda. It does not matter what we give them they will always ask for more. My belief is that, at best, most of us in QF engineering have a maximum of 2 years left before we are put out the door.

[Clipped]

Closing Tulla, will be as successful as the closing of H245.

[A320skoda]

How many LAME's to loose there job's? How many LAME's in the country on 457 VISA's?

[Hercfix]

There is about another 250 jobs to go over the next 12 months at Qantas Defence Services with the government grounding the C130H fleet. In total that's a lot of aircraft trades out of work in a small industry in Australia.

[QF94]

There is about another 250 jobs to go over the next 12 months at Qantas Defence Services with the government grounding the C130H fleet. In total that's a lot of aircraft trades out of work in a small industry in Australia.

QDS to lose 250 and about 600 in Tulla. The government has grounded the C130's. They're donating them to the Indonesian Air Force! Work that one out!

[QF94]

From the Press Release this morning.


“Qantas has invested heavily over the past 10 years in new aircraft that are more advanced, more efficient,

attractive to our customers and require less maintenance, less often. But we cannot take advantage of this new generation of aircraft if we continue to do heavy maintenance in the same way we did 10 years ago.

Last time I saw an A380 (yesterday) it had its cowls open and a plethera of engineers around it. This is ops normal for A380 Line Maintenence.

I feel for the guys in MEL as I did for those when SYD Heavy was shut down.

[easily_confused]

A320 Skoda, are you saying the jobs that no one would take and were left for 457 visa holders are now good enough for you?

[AWB_Clerk]

easily_confused: A320 Skoda, are you saying the jobs that no one would take and were left for 457 visa holders are now good enough for you?

A320Skoda has a point: There's no longer a skills shortage, is there? So the 457 visa scheme will need to be looked into at some point. Or would you like to continue it and create a further surplus of skilled workers that will have to fight for work that doesnt exist which will not be of any benefit to anyone?

AWBC

[Lodown]

It took me 40 hours to get to Dallas 3 years ago with Qantas from a scheduled Brisbane-Los Angeles flight because of serviceability issues. That was the last time I flew Qantas internationally. Seems like I won't be coming back to Qantas anytime soon to get confronted with more delayed departures and missed connections. Oh well...

[easily_confused]

I couldn't see a case for further 457 visas to be issued, but people will need to now accept lower wages as new ventures will not be as lucrative.

[AWB_Clerk]

I couldn't see a case for further 457 visas to be issued, but people will need to now accept lower wages as new ventures will not be as lucrative.


I think the point here is that a 457 visa is a temporary permit to work in the country while a skills shortage exists. Such a shortage no longer exists, so it stands to reason that if there is no shortage then there is no longer a reason to continue existing temporary visas, let alone issue new ones.

AWBC

[600ft-lb]

Mr Joyce flagged more job cuts could be on the cards in the future as operations at Avalon continued to be reviewed.
He said the reality was that the heavy maintenance work at Tullamarine and Avalon had dropped off considerably, partly as a result of Qantas buying more modern aircraft which do not need to be serviced as often as older models.
While he was unable to say how long Avalon would remain viable, Mr Joyce said it was inevitable that Qantas would one day have just one heavy maintenance facility in Australia.``We know we have to move to one maintenance facility over time,'' he said.


If you're currently working in Avalon, there it is. You either diversify your skill set and pick a new industry or you get out ASAP. The investment is being made in Brisbane and AJ has basically said that AVV will exist only till the 767s are gone.

[the rim]

think you will find "till the 747's are gone".....here we go again more redundancy's on offer all over ...hope its the case so no one gets tapped...the rim

[Jethro Gibbs]

Media Release was out before anyone told anything at Avalon .What a way to deal with Staff.:mad:

[Bagus]

Maybe when new gov win next election and by then hopefully Joyce is gone maybe some Aussie CEO will run qantas and build a a a380 hangar but to late for tullamarine brothers,I had enough,going to Perth but not in mines.

[ampclamp]

Fed Sec,do you have any idea how many of the Tulla staff will be asked to move or how many have indicated an interest to move?

[VBPCGUY]

Well before any PIA took place during the dispute of last year the ALAEA offered Qantas pretty much what you suggested here. We offered, no transit check, no LAME on departure but we demanded there be one for each arrival so we could fix the broken ones. Qantas said no because they want everything and more. Don't think that the ALAEA incapable of being co-operative or progressive.

Representing AMEs and LAMEs together is not a conflict of interest. Both groups have long sought one representing body. AMEs currently sit in big unions and the aviation sectors are about 1% of the membership of that union. What say do you think they get and how much do you think their leaders know about our industry?

So Fedsellout, of all aircraft arrivals for QF how many are required the attention of a LAME on arrival?

Remember before you answer I perform this role at VA.

[ampclamp]

calls someone"sellout" then wants info.:hmm:

[Jethro Gibbs]

The Scumbag bottom feeders are fishing already are they going to stop bringing in 457 visa holders now .:ugh::mad:

Aviation Labour Group would like AME'S located in Melbourne to apply to our website
This job posting is for application only for any upcoming roles and has been created due to the current redundancies in the Melbourne area
we hope that all Mechanical, Avionics and Structures AME'S can apply directly via this posting
if you have any questions please call the Melbourne office

03 9310 3800

[another superlame]

So now it is official, I guess it is time for John Borghetti to come good on his offer of taking on engineers that QF makes redundant.

John was it a mouthful of crap when you made the offer or are you still serious?

[VBA Engineer]

Easy does it, best check what the offer was before you shoot your mouth off.

Some info here: Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/travel/news/qantas-engineers-to-strike-after-1000-jobs-cut/story-fn32891l-1226118111755)

But there is probably more around.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

So Fedsellout, of all aircraft arrivals for QF how many are required the attention of a LAME on arrival?

Remember before you answer I perform this role at VA.




Your question doesn't even make sense. Your manners are appalling.


Fed Sec,do you have any idea how many of the Tulla staff will be asked to move or how many have indicated an interest to move?

It looks like there will be 227 openings in Bne. How many want to move I would not know as it was new news today.


John was it a mouthful of crap when you made the offer or are you still serious?

I'll call em to see what they have to offer.

[empire4]

Start the campaign to end 457 Visa NOW. We all need to look at the big picture here! Why are British, French, Singaporean, Indonesian, Bangladesh and Indian Workers here on temporary 457 Visas when 500+ Australian citizens have now been forced out of work. All unions need to move quickly ahead to the next hurdle in protecting Australian Jobs.

ALAEA must push this please Steve, Its not your job, its our job also.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Start the campaign to end 457 Visa NOW.



I absolutely agree. Will email an Industrial Officer in the Association to get onto it tomorrow.

[frankthespanner]

Hello Queensland!!

[mightyauster]

The 457 Visa charade has been going on for long enough!:mad:
The likes of AMSA have been hiding behind it as an excuse not to invest in training local employees, especially when it comes to removal of B1 restrictions. As an educated guess, I would say many of the soon to be out of work Qantas LAME's will not be full B1's either. Where are they going to find the $7,000 to $12,000 plus put food on the table for the five to fourteen weeks to gain these qualification so they can compete with the "cheap" imported labour? :ugh:

[the rim]

can someone answer me this....how many 457's are here that are licenced....and I mean licenced by CASA and have QF approvals on Qf aircraft....or are we talking about AME's here with 457 visas......the rim

[Bagus]

AJ says eventually go to one base,Avalon workers will try to look some other jobs now or upgrade to different skills or do partime courses and eventually leave not waiting for another consolidation review,it will backfire qantas when this happens as they won't be able to get the skill workers other than employing 457 visa workers ,it has happen before.

[easily_confused]

Quote:
Start the campaign to end 457 Visa NOW.

Quote ALAEA Fed Sec:
I absolutely agree. Will email an Industrial Officer in the Association to get onto it tomorrow.

Lets hope that the ALAEA do not represent any 457 visa holders! If they do I suggest those members get out of that union fast!

[Bagus]

The recruitment agency is looking for 777 ,320.330.380 licenced for 457 visa applicant.not 737 .

[screwstick]

Looks like Hangar 2 Brisbane will be the new heavy maintenance facility for 737
I wonder where the phase checks are going to be done ?

[empire4]

I'd also like to put it out there that AMSA have been getting away with not even using 457 Visas. Seems its ok to have a Singaporeans come down on his Singapore wage, payed in Singapore, work here Illegally on a Business tourist Visa. It is unacceptable at all levels. Train Australians. End of story.

Bagus, I don't care if it is on different Types. Most of the 457 guys know peanuts so you can't use that as an excuse either. Time to look after our own.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Bagus Aviation Labour Group secures government deal — Aviation Labour Group (http://www.aviationlabour.com/news/aviation-labour-group-secures-government-deal) :ugh:This needs to be stopped Now

[Bagus]

I do agree with u to look for own but this recruitment agency are getting away unless something is done.

[the rim]

empire4.....dont think aussies are the only ones who know anything about aircraft and maint.We are not the only ones who know how to fix them....the rim

[Bagus]

Advertisement: Story continues below
The airline has been spending between $1.5 and $2 billion a year on new aircraft. It has 12 new Airbus 380s, but that is not enough to support a new heavy maintenance operation in itself - and they will not require heavy maintenance anyway until about 2025. In 2025 it will take a year to fix it

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Lets hope that the ALAEA do not represent any 457 visa holders! If they do I suggest those members get out of that union fast!



We're not totally stupid. If our profession is taken off the 457 list the change would not apply to the ones who have already moved here.

[the rim]

now let me start with...I am not in favor or 457 visa's ....we should be looking after Australians FIRST....but the ALAEA is afillated with other overseas unions that look after licenced engineers and we have been fighting for OUR [CASA] licence to be able to be used overseas.....what would we think if another country would not allow US to work there....mmmm food for thought....the rim

[mightyauster]

the rim - I think you have mis-read the situation here. There are plenty of very capable LAME's overseas no doubt, but they should not be used as a substitute for training in this country, especially when we are to be confronted with a large number to be unemployed shortly. Believe me, Singapore, for example have no qualms in giving expats the bullet when times are tough.
Unfortunately, the 457 Visa system has been abused by a few shonky companies as a means to drive down wages, training and employ "compliant" staff.

[empire4]

The Rim,

I'm well aware that Australians are not the only ones that can fix aircraft, or anything else for that matter. That is why I said "Most". To ad to this, I do hold the opinion that Australian trained LAME's are of significantly better quality though. If you see what is happening in Malaysia and Singapore as we speak you will agree.

As for our CASA license being recognised else where? Please enlighten me as to where?