Flying Time Aviation (Zero to fATPL course)

[Nickilaa10]

Hi everybody,

I have been looking at flying time aviation and the fatpl course they offer. I was wondering if anyone has applied or taken this course and what their views are on the course and the school.

[kalwells]

Hi Nick,

I actually went myself 2 weeks ago to see the guys at FTA. I have to say I was very impressed with the setup and also the instructors. I was given several hours of their time and they were down to earth and to the point.

The aircraft are modern and exceptionally well looked after, very clean and tidy. The students I spoke to spoke highly of the training and the instructors concerned, although they said the work and rota's were hard going. The Zero-fATPL Course is long and by no means an easy course 18-22 months of FULL TIME study Monday - Friday 08:00-18:00 in the school, with weekends also being used for flying if hours are low or weather in the week bad.

Fee's wise, the course is 100% self funded, and the price quoted is for completing in minimal hours, i.e.: not failing any of the ground exams, or the practical assessments. Landing fees, approach fees are included, but again this is only a handful so if you are not 100% spot on then there are going to be further hourly costs for flying £260+ per hour, plus landing fees, approach fees etc etc. I was advised to budget nearer the £55,000 mark for the course, plus of course you will need accommodation, food etc which is not included in this course! (If you live local then it may not be a problem). They don't ask for the money up front, something that I WOULD NOT DO is pay that amount of money in advance, just look at Cabair going bust for the 3rd time!!!! You pay up front you loose the lot if the school goes belly up...... I would be uncomfortable having anything more than £10,000 at a time on account with a flying school.

My partner is already an FO flying for a UK Airline and went the OAA Course Route, but we are servicing a £90,000 debt in total as the Airbus type rating was a further £35,000 on top and they are only making circa £2200 a month at the moment flying minimal hours...... hopefully the summer will prove to be more busy....... They have just reached the 500 hours point and the hourly rate does go up now, but not a huge amount. Out of the 30 or so students from the course, 6 have full time jobs at the moment.......

I have made my choice that FTA will be the school I go with, I am prepared to take the risk of doing my commercial training but working in the medical profession I have a trade to fall back onto if this goes wrong.

I am lucky in the fact that I have 60% of the fees saved up and will hopefully this year be able to raise the remainder required, and through the support of my partner will be able to start the course maybe in 2013. I am fully aware however how bad the industry is at the moment but for me its a risk I am prepared to take..... what the outcome will be I don't know.

If you have the money then go for it, but if you are worried about cash, living on no money for 2 years and then no promise of a job then hold fire for a while!!!!!!!

BTW - loans for training don't exist these days unless you apply to BBVA who will only offer you the training money if they secure a loan on your house, and there are so many terms and conditions attached to it you are taking a huge risk. An example is £60.000 borrowed, the repayments would be in the region of £800.00 per month for 11 years!!!!! Plus then you need £35,000 for a type rating, which you will need another loan for, combine this amount of money you will be working erratic hours for very little........

Thinking about the above points, why am I considering doing this...... Hummm, Oh Yeah, the desire to fly......

Good Luck

[Nickilaa10]

Hi Kalwells

Thank you very much for the reply! Now that I have a better insight, I will go down to see FTA to see them for myself! Do you have any idea as to their relationship with airlines? Even due to the economic times and the industry, I am still wanting to take that route, as it has been my dream.

When I emailed FTA they quoted me 39,000 for the course as I am already training for my PPL, thats if I passed every first time, which is highly unlikely lol.

Thanks very much for replying to my post!

Best of luck in the future!

[kalwells]

Hey Nick,

They say that they would help to point in you the right direction once you gained the fATPL, but they are clear that they will not promise you a job or interview with the airline - that is something you have to do off your own back.

Of course once you pass the fATPL, then you will need another £35,000 for a type rating before you can event apply to the airlines, of which the low cost will only offer a flexi contract, but they normally will only take Oxford Aviation or CTC graduates.

I asked what percentage of their students who passed the fATPL course and bought a type rating (through another company) went onto airline jobs with the like of Ryan, Easy, FlyBE and alike and they said it is very few BUT only on the grounds that they have a much higher percentage of students from outside the EU such as UEA training with them. (Overseas sponsored I think by some airline program) who then return back to their countries and study their TR.

I asked my other half how many students not from CTC or OAA are working as Junior FO's in the right hand seat of their airline at one London Base they know of 4 people who have come via Stapleford Flight Training that were offered a Flexi-Contract..... this would match with the advertised graduates from Stapleford as they have placed approx 25+ students with a certain Lo-Co Airline so it can happen, but certainly does not seem to be the "norm"......

Like I said FTA were a pretty honest company, and very easy to talk to, they may well be my choice should I continue with CPL training if I move to Surrey, but at the moment Stapleford are closer to me, so are another option (costs are about the same based on Modular Route)

One thing about FTA.........I asked them myself about the training routes and like you I am doing my PPL but now bitten the bullet and am doing it 6 weeks full time. I am lucky that I can get the time off work mostly paid. FTA said to me that if I had the PPL then the Zero-fATPL course is not appropriate and I would have to undertake the CPL/ME/IR Course + ATPL Ground Exams which is still going to be on a module by module basis. It did not attract a discount on the price, so worked out more expensive than the "Integrated Route"......

[njptvr]

I am not on the fATPL course but have done my CPL/ME/IR with them.

Very professional outfit with a good, well maintained modern fleet. The DA42s are all glass G1000s and the DA40s and PA28s are a mix of glass and steam gauges so you get exposure to both. Operations are a helpful bunch and the instructors are a good mix of people and very helpful. They are busy though and are running a professional training environment so don't expect to be spoon fed all the answers. That is not to say they are not helpful but you are expected to turn up on time and act like a professional trainee pilot.

There is no payment up front on any of their courses apart from a small deposit, about £350 if memory serves correctly.

Shoreham is a decent enough airport to fly from and now you are not obliged to start the IR test from a test centre there is no advantage flying from a bigger airport.

If you want any more information feel free to PM me.

[future-pilot]

Is anyone doing the flight deck programme with flying time aviation?
I'm considering this course as a plan B in case I can get the loan for the Qatar MPL.
Any advice would be very appreciated!

[flyboyweeksy]

Guys, if you haven't already done so, go and check FTA in person, well worth the look and a good school which is constantly expanding. Can't fault it after completing there back in April this year.