'G/A' Aviation 'User Fees'...

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

In the immortal words of M.L.K......
"I Have a Dream'....

From 'EAA Hotline' (USA) 3rd Feb....a couple of weeks ago....

Note Minister Albanese...

" GA SCORES VICTORIES IN FAA REAUTHORIZATION BILL
As the first full FAA Reauthorization Bill in nearly five years heads toward a final floor vote in the House and Senate in the next few days, general aviation will see a number of benefits from the language approved by House and Senate conferees this week. A major victory for general aviation is the exclusion of user fees and fuel tax increases in the legislation. While it is still possible that the Obama Administration will introduce a user-fee proposal as part of its budget plan, the lack of them in the reauthorization measure shows that Congress still has little inclination to support such fees. "

Congress has 'little inclination to support such fees".... WOW!!

G/A in the USA, must be almost G/A 'Heaven'..??

I well remember the times when G/A supplied 'essential services' to the outlying towns, cattle / sheep stations in our 'GAFA'....
The mail runs, the freight runs, the charters to where-ever....

The Industry, the employment, of pilots and LAMEs and lots of other staff...

Even did a few of those myself. AAhh...those WERE the days..!!

Cheers:ok::ok: Now...:=:yuk::{

[LexAir]

GA. Does it still exist? Or has it morphed into the Oxfords of this world that just churn out airline cadets?

[PilotKarl_777-300]

GA. Does it still exist? Or has it morphed into the Oxfords of this world that just churn out airline cadets?

Couldn't say it any better myself! :D

Everything these day's is about obtaining an associated degree or a Diploma in aviation, and where does this get you may i ask :confused:

Might as well pack up your bag's and move to Alaska. That's where you find the 'fun' stuff..:E

[aussie027]

In the USA GA is the largest aviation activity type so it definitely does still exist. :ok:
Remember, there is more aviation activity on any given day in the US than the rest of the world combined.:ok:

People fight the Govt bureaucrats and politicians at all levels of Govt to prevent BS laws passing that will harm the industry and/or their sector of it or even change operations at their local airport and because every sector does the same thru different organizations, especially US AOPA which has a 400 000 plus membership and a very good political lobby and action group ( and media affairs unit that puts GA's side forward to the public especially after a serious accident).

We certainly could take a big lesson from them.

Also a large number of politicians, especially in congress are or were pilots and are also members of AOPA so they actively vote against any legislation counterproductive to aviation.

EVERY single year though, whatever administration is in power tries to introduce a huge "User Fees " model and every year the aviation community fight back and make sure it doesn't pass.
Everyone pays their share to fund the FAA and run the aviation system thru a fuel tax so the more you use the more you pay.

Any remaining aviation funding required is paid out of general revenue, as it bloody well should be, the system and industry is a vital part of the nations infrastructure and economy.
VITAL to any modern nation, especially ones as large as USA and Australia.
We should have definitely stuck to a similar model here. The imposition of user fees for every single damn thing is a bloody outrage. :ugh::ugh::mad::mad:

$25 for a 2-3 page copy of your licence and $75 to get someone to evaluate your medical after you have already passed, come on.How did we allow this insanity to get into place??:ugh::ugh:
Speaking of which I have to ring CASA right now to pay for my medical I passed last week.:mad::mad:

[Wally Mk2]

The biggest trouble in Oz with ref to GA is the population & the land mass, the two are miles apart so to speak. We simply don't have the population & therefore the infrastructure to support a healthy GA fraternity. Mainland States has about the same land size as us yet over 260 Mill people live there, we have what? 23Mill or so! That added to the costs of flying GA with fuel & spares etc out of control along with a Regulator that is hell bent emulating AJ of QF (vision or lack thereof) in destroying GA as well as our over regulated skies means GA as it was once is slowly dieing for the masses,it's the wealthy only that will end up aviating here on a pvt level.
Apart from the RFDS Australia has never really embraced aviation outside of commercial transport. We have the oldest known human inhabitants on the planet,resource wealth the envy of most countries, we are far enough away from the rest of the mad world yet we are the most backward in some ways of the western world, aviation is just part of that backward approach!

'User pays',will some day be known 'user paid'..........end of an era!!


Wmk2

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hey Wal,

The 'mid - 60's' thru to the end of the 70's was probably 'the' period of G/A in OZ.

Imagine being able to fly almost anywhere 'populated', and there was the airport / airstrip - Commonwealth funded, no landing fees, fuel avbl almost everywhere...

When I first came to WA to work, quite a few of the local 'cockies' had a 172 or similar...not any more!

Then the 'nuptys' took over and sold off the airports, and that was just the start of the demise.....

I think it was the 'Bosch' report that finally killed it - you know - 'User Pays'.....and pays....and pays....

No longer was G/A seen as an integral part of 'our infrastructure'.

It was, and still is seen only as a 'cash cow' to be milked - after all if ya got an aeroplane then ya got $$$'s. RIGHT??

Stupid no - sense politicians....BOTH sides..!!:yuk::yuk:

As 'someone else' (shudder) said on these esteemed forums -
"We should do things like they do in the USA......":cool:

Well, SOME things anyway....:cool:

[aussie027]

Well said Wally, Yes I am aware of all of that, didn't want to type it all out but knew someone else would so thank you.

Despite that, all those responsible for proposing and implementing user fees in this country should be taken out and bloody well shot as far as I'm concerned.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif

Yes the lower 48 states are about the exact same size of Aust and the current US population is 313 Million!!

Just saw your post too Griffo, well said.

[jas24zzk]

$25 for a 2-3 page copy of your licence and $75 to get someone to evaluate your medical after you have already passed, come on.How did we allow this insanity to get into place??

We didn't. Some overpaid muppet in an office with no access to natural lighting decided it would be a good idea. Then some dumb**** politician decided it was a great way to remove the cost away from the taxypayer...hell aren't we all tax payers. http://www.mustangtech.com.au/images/smiles/ranting1.gif

Its funny, I don't have too much problem with user pays, whether it be a direct charge like above, or via subliminal means like a fuel tax, but when it becomes blatantly a rip off then I become a lot less supportive. http://www.mustangtech.com.au/images/smiles/icon_twisted.gif

For 100 bucks, I want my medical, next day, Express posted!!!! The whole idea of a passed medical needing to be evaluated is just plum http://www.mustangtech.com.au/images/smiles/loopy.gif

[Wally Mk2]

Gee 'aussie027' yr right the yanks have been playing mummies & dadies a LOT over the last few years:-) 313 Mill yanks!!!!.........christ any wonder Mackers & KFC are doing well!!.:)

'Griffo' I agree,for me it was the late 70's & early 80's that was great:ok: CASA & to some extent the Govt would love to rid Aus of GA as few are coming up thru the ranks for training for Airline gigs anyway & the gen public mostly think that pilots are all rich so why not tax the hell out of them! Bit like smoking, if you wanna do it bad enuf you will pay for it !!!


Wmk2

[Jabawocky]

Wally

Long time nice the USA had only 260m, they are at 311 million......that they know of. Call it 320, It's almost 14 times ours.

But you are correct, market volume but take our stats and times it by 14, see how it stacks up despite the extra cost due small size.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Aaaaahhhhh whatif....?

Bounty Refused (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1967/1967%20-%200320.html) The Australian Government has refused to
give any form of protection to the manufacture of singleengined
aircraft in Australia. The Minister for Trade and
Industry, Mr J. McEwen, announced this in Canberra when
releasing a Tariff Board report on single-engined aircraft.
"In the board's opinion there is little prospect, for the
present, of profitable production of light aircraft in Australia
without a level of assistance out of all proportion to the
probable gains to the economy," Mr McEwen said.
Mr Ernest Marty, sales manager of Transavia, makers of
the PL 12 Airtruk agricultural aircraft, said it was a tragic
decision. "It will certainly discourage anyone from trying to
build aircraft in this country," he added. His company would
press for another Tariff Board hearing, as the situation had
changed since the last inquiry.
Victa's managing director, Mr C. R. Fieldhouse, would not
comment. Victa Ltd, with Transavia, had requested a subsidy
for the production of light aircraft. Since the inquiry, Victa
has closed its $A3 million aviation plant. At the inquiry the
company sought a "bounty" (i.e., subsidy) of a maximum of
60 per cent on the average factory cost of Australian designed
and manufactured aircraft. It asked that the bounty should last
for five years. Transavia asked for a sliding bounty which
would cover 32.9 per cent of the total cost of the first ten aircraft,
15.4 per cent of the next 25, and 5.3 per cent of the next 50.
The organisations opposing protection were Rex Aviation
Ltd, Ansett General Aviation Pty Ltd, Piper, Hawker De Havilland
Australia Pty Ltd, the Association of Commercial Flying
Organisations of Australia, Hazelton Air Services Pty Ltd and
the Australian Tariff Council. Among their submissions were
that Australia was not yet a big enough market to support a
local aircraft industry.

And that was the end of that! 1967. Victa had already shut their $3million factory and sold out to AESL. Read into this and the DCA were real nasty when it came to certification. Killed off the Illawara Trainer that predated tricycle cessnas by many years (1953) Imagine if there was a slight change of heart by the government of the day. A slight change of heart from the DCA re-certification. A GA manufacturing industry in Oz? From raw materials through to a flying aeroplane.

That burst of aviation expansion was done on the back of cheap US aircraft dumped on Australia. The secret to prosperity...availability of very affordable aeroplanes.

Then, Whitlam and his amalgamation and that train driver....then Hawke, the Bosch report, user pays...but not on safety related services...and the millionaire judas goat. Competition Commision and user pays on everything. Selling off the assets to try and rein in the budget...I just love the way the lefties do it...class warfare on the so called rich and all the while they are after EVERYONE. Still works today!

However, Tyabb airshow in two weeks:ok:

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Australian Restrictions? (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1966/1966%20-%200022.html) Victa Aviation has asked the Australian
Government to restrict the sale of imported two-seater
aircraft. Agents for the three major American light aircraft
builders have applied to import over 100 two-seaters during
1966, while Victa estimates the total two-seat market in 1966
as only 80 aircraft. This year Victa built around 70 per cent
of all the two-seaters sold in Australia. The sudden expansion
of American interest in Australia is largely due to the energy
of Cessna, who require every one of their dealers to take at
least five 150s per year to support the greatly expanded production
of this type