Help Save a Flying Boat Company!

[weloveseaplanes]

Gidday Gidday all,

We operate one of the few remaining Commercial Flying Boat Companies in the world but as our survival has recently and suddenly been threatened I'm requesting your help please. (Having a pregnant wife with the cutest of two year old babies, Aqua, allows one to humilate themselves on forums such as this in the chance of saving their company.)

It's Paul from Vanuatu Seaplanes here. Vana-where you say? Vana-here of course . . .

- Home (http://www.vanuatuseaplanes.com)

We're located in the balmy South Pacific nestled between the dictatorship of Fiji to the East and the French colony of New Caledonia to the West. Things have been going swimmingly until a recent brief inspection by an advisor to the local authorities grounded the plane, threatening the survival of company and family.

The irony of course is that at exactly the same time the advisor suddenly appeared and grounded the aircraft after the briefest of walk rounds I had flown in the World's Leading Authority on Lake Aircraft who provided a very positive assessment of the aircraft. The advisor and the authorities were aware this engineer would provide a report on the ship, but missed the scheduled meeting we had organised with them and were suddenly and mysteriously unavailable, did not return calls, and with speed never seen in this nation published the grounding letter without consulting with the guru who was in the country and known to be trying to see them.

This guru has dedicated his life to Lakes since 1978, having worked as a licenced engineer on over 200 different Lakes, reconstructed from total wrecks over 15, performs about 40 Annual Lake inspections, personally helps maintain about 12 aircraft around the world in remote locations, has 30,000 hours PIC, 14,000 in Lakes of which about 7,000 is instructing in flying well over 300 Lakes. The advisor has as far as I know never worked on or piloted a Lake.

The guru's opinion and that of the nations two top engineers working on the plane differ greatly from that of the advisor over the immediate necessity to do all the remaining work. So I'm in the bizarre situation of having the opinion of the Worlds Leading Authority on Lakes and that of our in country Engineers over turned by a walk around by someone unqualified on the aircraft as a number of people are quietly approaching me whispering of secret agendas behind closed doors. Being grounded suddenly now means I'm about to miss out on the largest number of flights ever as there are some 20 plus penciled in for a large wedding on a far off island resort shortly.

The aircraft was in for a combined 100 check and comprehensive overhaul and as further parts were not on hand the non critical work was to be deferred until when parts and maintenance could be scheduled in. Based on the advice of the advisor the authorities however are demanding that all work be done immediately before the aircraft flies again and that the salt water is just too harsh an environment for Lake's to operate in. We're seeking to convince them that the assessment of the Worlds Leading Authority on Lakes, our in country engineers and the historic record of the aircraft show that the aircraft is safe to fly until the new parts arrive and can be fitted.

So what help might you consider offering?

1) To convince the authorities that although salt water is indeed a harsh environment, Lakes do have a proven track record of operating successfully in salt water, I'm trying to gather of list of Salty Lakes for with correct care they have a great track record. Can you please post any information on Lakes that you know of that have operated in salt water in the following "Help Save a Flying Boat Company! Salt Water List."

2) To convince the authorities that although 21st Century standard manuals don't exist for the Lake they can be operated safely in a commercial environment can you please post any information on any commercial operates of Lakes you may have heard of please in the following "Help Save a Lake business! Com Ops" list.

3) To save the business financially can you please secretly post me the co-ordinates of any sunken treasure ships here in the South Pacific?

Out of curiosity I'm not the only one who loves the flying boat . . . we've been lucky enough to share that pleasure with this following strangers and hope that through your support we can continue with our family motto of "Raising a happy family while sharing our love of flying boats."

Advice in English - (http://www.vanuatuseaplanes.com/advice-in-english.html)
Vanuatu Seaplanes - Port Vila - Reviews of Vanuatu Seaplanes - TripAdvisor (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g294144-d1887384-Reviews-Vanuatu_Seaplanes-Port_Vila_Efate.html)

Tally-ho, bandits at 6 o'clock low
Thanks for reading this
Paul, plane and family

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Help Save a Flying Boat Company! Salt Water List

VH-ETY 36 years operating in and out of salt water now owned by Australian distributor for ACF-50

N1236L 35 years operating in salt water at Evers SBP in New York. Still airworthy.

N8014D 19 years operating in slat water in Long Island. No corrosion at all after a detailed inspection.

N2596P 11 years operating in salt water in Destin, Florida. Aircraft is 100% and current flying daily.

N80MP 10 years and about 4000 hours operating in salt water in Florida keys for Florida Marine Patrol. Currently 100% airworthy flying in Texas.

N85494 8 years total in salt water. 3 years operating in salt in Korea, Followed by 5 years in salt in New York (adjacent to Evers SPB). Now 100% airworthy in Lithuania.

N8423Q. 7 years operating in Salt in Persian Gulf. Now 100% airworthy and owned and flying in Mexico.

N69LK 5 years operating in salt from Scandinavia to Antarctica followed by 5 years operation by Florida Marine patrol in Salt water around Florida. Now 100% airworthy in St Petersburg, Russia.

YJ-VSL1 5 years in salt water in Fiji and Vanuatu

N???? 3+ years operating in salt with Jimmy Buffet as owner. Still 100% airworthy today flying in Nevada

NONE of these aircraft has ever had an accident or incident as a result of corrosion, and all are 100% operational today.

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Help Save a Flying Boat business! Com Ops list

17 years - Aircraft Innovation & Repair Services - USA - 12 Lakes
15 years - Air Whitsundays - Australia - 10 Lakes
8 years- Sounds Air - New Zealand -2 Lakes
5 years - Grandseaplanes - USA - 1 Lake
3 years - Coral Air - Fiji - 1 Lake
3 years - AirWaves - Australia - 1 Lake
2 years - Solomon Island Airlines - Solomon Islands - 1 Lake
2 years - Vanuatu Seaplanes - 1 Lake


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Sunken Treasure Cordinates

PM me and lets go 50/50 ;)

[frigatebird]

Looks different to the Maule....!
try the Main Stateroom in the President Coolidge at Santo,- some soldiers may have lost their wedding rings as they jumped ship....
or the safe in the aft smoking lounge in the seaplane on the bottom in the Harbour - the purser may not have cleared it before it sank....
A yacht I owned once, ended up on the bottom of that harbour in a cyclone, but the aircraft engineer who bought it would have taken off anything of value when he raised it....Hey John..?
All the best, Paul.. :)

[AdamFrisch]

Chris Kjos in Miami regularly operates his LA4-200 to Bahamas and Bimini. Tons of clips under CKFlyer on YouTube.

I hope your predicament can be resolved soon. Love Lakes and every time they get grounded, an angel cries.

[offhandblackhand]

Either buy a boat or a plane.

I have hundreds of hours maintenance experience with these craft, and from that perspective, I would leave them to flat / fresh water.

I often found bent structure in the tail due to landing in chop and the worst fuel system contamination events just to name a couple.

Surprisingly, corrosion was not the biggest issue.

Each to their own I guess, but I personally would run as fast as possible if I was asked to repair one again.

Sorry to hear about your predicament.

[weloveseaplanes]

Gidday Gidday guys,

Thanks for your replies. Yes they suit flat water much better than rough and yes they are a unique bird. For a 200 hp amphib they have a little magic in them and the longer you have one the more you love it, the less you know well there you go. For us the flexibility and ability to operate comfortably between both short jungle strips and sheltered water ways is of great use.

Off to dive for rings, safe and Dauntless ;-)

[weloveseaplanes]

Lists updated with information received from Air Whitsundays and private operators.

[Ejector]

I once observed a beaver everyday have it's thick short and curly carpet removed after it got wet everyday on a sandy beach, it was cleaned everyday with fresh water pumped via a long hose.

This at least diluted the yuckie salt water that left white dried stains from the salty liquid that saturated it though out the day.

I imagine this Lake would get the same daily care as the lovely beavers. :ok:

[weloveseaplanes]

Gidday Gidday Griffo,

Well we have lots of ways we address this but the key is to make the passengers and myself always fly bare foot.

1) before flight passengers are given plastic bags to place their shoes in and towels to wipe the water off their feet. They do this as they sit on the cockpit still as they enter the ship, when this is difficult for them their partner or I lend a hand kinda like Al Bundy in Married with Children.

Likewise I've got the system down pat so I always enter the aircraft with dry feet wiping myself down as I twist around and plop down.

For water operations I limit the ship to two passengers each with towels and thus have a large towel on the back seat as well.

2) Of course between flights I wipe the interior of the plane, the canopy and outside.

3) I have water absorbent mats under foot.

4) Each day in the wet I spend 60-90 minutes after return back on the dry washing her down. This of course includes the interior where the mats are removed and hung up outside each night and the floor is wiped clean and dry
(my wife can never believe how many towels I go through)

5) When aircraft is down for maintenance I remove interior floor boards etc to let her dry out

6) The area is heavily corrosion proofed - easy to access and easy to spray.

7) The floor boards are wood the structure is metal so there is little chance for corrosion as the screws all have plastic washers on them

8) Sand rather than water is more of a concern so I like to see pax with wet feet because it means they are only about to bring water in the plane on their feet - then we intercept the water, giving them a towel to wipe them down as they sit in the plane and then keep the interior clean by the methods above.

Like anything with seaplanes, the negatives can be turned into positives. You really get to know the passengers as you're wiping their feet and between their legs and they feel relaxed and relieved to see how the Captain slowly cares for them and the ship :-)

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

When do I start..??

Cheers:ok::ok:

[Frank Arouet]

weloveseaplanes;

To the best of your knowledge, does The Civil Aviation Safety Authority of Australia have any input to your dilemma?

If so, can you PM me with details including names of "experts" involved? What Country did they eminate from if not from a Regulatory Authority?

These are needed for a database of more than 1,000 that may benefit all GA in the CASA influenced environs.

As an example, a bloke from west NSW purchased a Grumman Mallard, (years ago), and configured it for SAR which it was designed for. Despite more than 25,000 Grumman aircraft ever built, our regulator deemed the aircraft "unsuitable" for it's intended role and the owner went broke.

As an aside, can anybody tell me what aircraft ever built excepting a PBY or the Mallard are currently available in our area for SAR work?

[Arnold E]

our regulator deemed the aircraft "unsuitable" for it's intended role

Lets be fair here, did our wonderfull regulator deem that aircraft unsuitable, or the type unsuitable??:confused:

[tail wheel]

".....quietly approaching me whispering of secret agendas behind closed doors."

Sounds normal for much of the Pacific.

[chimbu warrior]

a bloke from west NSW purchased a Grumman Mallard

If it is the machine I am thinking of, it was actually an Albatross, rather thn a Mallard. Two quite different birds.

[weloveseaplanes]

"To the best of your knowledge, does The Civil Aviation Safety Authority of Australia have any input to your dilemma?"

Not as far as I know. The Vanuatu regs are based on the kiwi ones. The international organisation that advises the local aviation authorities seems though to be staffed by a number of Ozzies. This is fine except we seem to have Ozzies interpreting a kiwi rule set modified for Vanuatu advising officials trying their best to run a country without the population base, support systems and financial resources that such rules and regs require.

We invited the authorities in to check the work we were doing and being open in showing how hard we are trying to take care of our ship while also bringing in the worlds expert to assess, assist and evaluate us.

For these acts of good will we have been grounded despite the plane being in better condition than she was a few weeks ago and many people helping us.

Had we kept quiet, finished the work and returned flying with the blessing of the expert and the two engineers I'd be off on the most lucrative series of flights ever for our company. Instead voluntarily opening the door to the authorities has closed it on our business.

[weloveseaplanes]

"".....quietly approaching me whispering of secret agendas behind closed doors."
Sounds normal for much of the Pacific."

Yes Tailwheel, normal perhaps, but sorry to hear and even sorrier to be caught up in.

Am finding out that aviation isn't the brotherhood of the sky it should be . . .

[j3pipercub]

I wish you all the best with your sticky situation, nobody wants to be between a rock and a hard place. Is the air taxi business also in danger?

j3

[TBM-Legend]

The Albatross except for a few G-111 models was never civil certified. Those flying in the USA for example are in Limited or Experimental Category..

[flying-spike]

Steady Frank, the regulator out there is PASO. It attracts people from other regulators so they could have been ex-anywhere.www.paso (http://www.%3Cb%3Epaso%3C/b%3E).aero/

Another saltwater seaplane operator, Paspaley Pearls out of Darwin, Grumman G-73 Mallard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_Mallard)

This is a private operation supporting their pearl farming operations in the Top End and Kimberly coasts

[Frank Arouet]

I stand corrected, it was an Albatross, not a Mallard.

I take the point about civil certification, and can only say in defence of the operational capabilities of the aircraft, (I'm unsure if we had "limited or experimental" then), it could surely have been granted an exemption or instrument to allow the SAR operations. Bit like the firefighters.

I'm unsure where the aircraft is now, but I think the owner went under about the same time as Sportavia at YTOC.

flying-spike;

I'd still be interested in names to double check the expert's credentials.

Vanuatu regs are based on the kiwi ones

As should the Australian Regs.

[Tankengine]

Well, a week and a half ago I saw the Albatross in a hangar [at TOC] with one engine and wing off.[wing and engine wrapped up in plastic]
I would love to fly it but not pay for the fuel and oil!:eek:

[SmoothCriminal]

Let's get it right Frank !

That Albatross WAS CERTIFIED eventually after a lot of paperwork being the first of it's type in Oz., It was approved on an AOC to do SAR work and IT DID do a few missions out of Darwin.
It's now owned by a Darwin bloke who among other machine's has coupla Queeny's :E

All G-111's are Charter category., very low time air frames still around if someone has the dosh to get it going.,., Stay tuned for the first G-111 into Aus ;)

Smoothie .,., :ok:

[jas24zzk]

dunno about all the intracies, but i do like em....

overhead throttles just have that movie appeal

[27/09]

Had we kept quiet, finished the work and returned flying with the blessing of the expert and the two engineers I'd be off on the most lucrative series of flights ever for our company. Instead voluntarily opening the door to the authorities has closed it on our business.

A lesson to be learned by all. Inviting involvement of the regulator when there was not a need to, invites this sort of problem. Some of these guys cannot help themselves and will always find something that needs to be rectified. They have to prove that their visit wasn't a waste of time, and in some cases, also show that their knowledge is superior, and even worse some have egos that need to be stroked.

As I was told once on another aviation related matter, "Only tell them what you have to"

Perhaps also your comment a number of people are quietly approaching me whispering of secret agendas behind closed doors. also casts some light on the matter.

Unfortunately I fear the only path to resolution is the slow bureaucratic path, these sort of people are not known for backing down, they don't need to make a dollar to live but they can strangle you with their impractical rulings.

Good luck.

[FokkerInYour12]

What "remaining work" was mandated?

[David Eyre]

There is a Grumman Albatross on the Australian register - VH-MAH:

CASA Search -- CASA Aircraft Register (http://casa-query.funnelback.com/search/search.cgi?collection=casa_aircraft_register&meta_v_sand=mah&meta_A=-allresults&meta_o_sand=&meta_m_sand=&meta_X_sand=&meta_r_sand=&meta_q_sand=&meta_xyear_sand=&meta_Y_sand=&num_ranks=10&Search=Search)

Photo here: Warbirdz Aviation Photography (http://www.warbirdz.net/search?wbreg=VH-MAH)

A report in The West Australian newspaper states that an Albatross has recently been acquired for use in the Kimberley region in the far north of WA. Not sure if it is VH-MAH though.

Regards,
David

[SmoothCriminal]

hi David,

It's not MAH which is a HU16 and not Charter certified. It's a G111 and a bloody nice looking one too :E

Smoothie.,., :ok:

[27/09]

There is a Grumman Albatross on the Australian register - VH-MAH:

CASA Search -- CASA Aircraft Register

Photo here: Warbirdz Aviation Photography

A report in The West Australian newspaper states that an Albatross has recently been acquired for use in the Kimberley region in the far north of WA. Not sure if it is VH-MAH though.

Regards,
David

hi David,

It's not MAH which is a HU16 and not Charter certified. It's a G111 and a bloody nice looking one too

Smoothie.,.,

FFS guys the thread is about a Lake Buccaneer flying boat operation in Vanuatu not about Mallard and Albatross's that may or may not have flown in OZ.

[SmoothCriminal]

FFS Thanks for pointing that out, we'll behave ourselves now

Smoothie.,., :ok:

[oxbow]

Not sure if any help but you could contact Volcanic Air Safaris in Rotorua NZ. I think they operate C182's and a single eng "Beaver" ahhh "Otter"???? Operating under NZCAA regs they mite be able to help shed some light on your CAA predicament. They have been around for a while. Just a thought:ok:

[27/09]

Pretty sure Volcanic Air Safaris operate an Otter and 206's on floats, however I think they only operate off fresh water. I think part of the problem here may be salt water ops. Currently I don't think there's any floatplanes operating off salt water in NZ.

[RadioSaigon]

Keith Hubber in NZNV used to operate a 206 on floats off the briny deep... Phil Kean of Mainland Air was his CP. Might be worth having a yarn with Phil.

[weloveseaplanes]

Thanks all.

Evidence and documents prepared. Will see which side the authority gives more weight to, three experienced engineers or their advisor.

Happy Flying to all,
Cheers

[lake250]

Interesting thread about your Lake ops in Vanuatu..so did the regs finally let you guys fly?

[RenegadeMan]

Hey there Weloveseaplanes,

If you're on here, as per lake250's posting, can you give us an update on how you went? Your website's all active and there are comments from people on Trip Advisor indicating they've been flying with you recently, but we'd love to hear what happened and what you had to do to get throiugh the difficulty.

Ren

[weloveseaplanes]

Not knowing who may read this its difficult to know how to reply appropriately sorry. Suffice to say yes we survived the 'interesting experience' last year due to the support of many. Thank you all.

It was an interesting learning experience and I have much sympathy for others involved in similar situations.

[lake250]

OK weloveseaplanes..thanks for the update, glad to know you guys are back in the air (and on the water)..cheers and all the best!