XZ587 at North Berwick

[Coffin Dodger]

Exercise with RNLI on Sunday 12th Feb at North Berwick just up the coast from Boulmer - a snap for the scrapbook. Always a delight to see you folks up close.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7187/6876059743_fe4f68f9a2.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27244534@N08/6876059743/)
XZ587 North Berwick (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27244534@N08/6876059743/)

[WE992]

Great photo, shame she looks in need of a good clean.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

she looks in need of a good clean


Please show more respect for our SAR rearcrew.:p

[Skeleton]

Am not a spotter by any means, but was quite shocked to see this.

Sea Kings and RAF aircraft in general used to be spick and span as they say, in my 27 yrs service.

What other corners are being cut?

Oh i forgot we already know.

[tucumseh]

Spotless.

Sorry, size adjusted.


http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc291/exploringtheblue/SeaKingHAR3A2.jpg

[the funky munky]

It's just a bit of exhaust soot! The fact she's serviceable and on task is the most important factor.
Isn't there an old army saying that no combat ready unit would pass a kit inspection? Of course SAR isn't combat (although I am informed it is just as demanding) but you get my drift.

[glojo]

It's just a bit of exhaust soot! The fact she's serviceable and on task is the most important factor. With the greatest of respect I disagree.

Professional pride springs to mind as well as the thought that if it looks that dirty on the outside, what's it look like on the inside? I'm sure the aircraft is well maintained and in first class working order but that 'soot' is all about image and public perception.

To me when I see it I just think about what else in that unit looks like that.

Apologies if my post appears harsh or too critical but how long would it take to clean off that filth? :O:O

[foldingwings]

how long would it take to clean off that filth?

Not long but they may have just been about to do it when it was called out on task as 'the spare'!

Get a life (all of you washer women), for God's sake!:ugh:

Foldie

[Fareastdriver]

The FAA paint their aircraft dark blue so you can't see the dirt.

[Rigga]

"Professional pride springs to mind as well as the thought that if it looks that dirty on the outside, what's it look like on the inside? I'm sure the aircraft is well maintained and in first class working order but that 'soot' is all about image and public perception."

LOL! - Don't you just love people who think everything is made better by a wipe with a soapy cloth? Typical BullSh!t.

The insides were (are) always heaped with stuff crammed into bags and jammed into corners.

Order? - Yes. Tidy? - Never! Professional? - Absolutely.

[Saintsman]

From my SAR days many years ago, I remember that the aircraft were given a fresh water wash at the end of the day if they had been flying over the sea and a foam wash on a scheduled basis (once a fortnight?).

After the foam wash the aircraft were treated with PX24 (same as WD40). That's why the soot sticks to the fuselage.

I can't imagine anything changing with that regime. Professional pride has kept them flying in relatively good condition considering the environment they operate in.

[XR219]

The FAA paint their aircraft dark blue so you can't see the dirt.

I don't think the FAA have painted any helos dark blue for quite a while.
http://c69011.r11.cf3.rackcdn.com/3bf213c00c674ff9ba386ff03705b721-513x298.jpg

[Tallsar]

I blame the MoD for too much cost cutting and buying that cheap stock of sooty avgas from the Iranians!:eek:

Aircraft wash regime was and is rigourous. Anti-corrosion measures ultra important on any SAR flight with proximity to sea and saline atmosphere. One reason why 587 still going strong after 35 years... Aircraft number 3 (Mk3) off the Line in '77. ..and yes that pic of 540 (1st Mk3A) is it's 1st flight at Yeovil ('95 me thinks -Tuc will correct me!)
Other Spotters will wish to know that sooty Gnome exhausts have always been an issue... Sometimes causing undesirable results as in this pic within less than an hour's flight. Same spotters will also wish to know it's why the winch housing colour was changed from yellow to black to hide said effect. Study was done some years ago as to whether SK rear crew could suffer from too much soot inhalation... Not sure what happened to that study.. Probably buried in an MoD cabinet below the file on effects of depleted uranium shell exposure...:eek::E

[ShyTorque]

It's the pilot's fault for taking off with the choke still full out.

[Tallsar]

It was usually the AFCS disengaged with me! Never found where the choke was...then that's probably why I was never A Cat! :}

[Tashengurt]

I wish my wife was that dirty.

Taxi!

[Coffin Dodger]

I'm feeling a bit guilty now for posting this pic. OK she's a tad sooty downwind of the exhaust, but my first thoughts on seeing the cab coming in was: 12:30z on a Sunday... probably been tasked earlier and no time for a quick wash and brush before heading out again.

No photos, but I can confirm that the crewman/winchman in back took time to brush any sand from his and others feet off the floor and out of the door before lifting from the beach. Most civvies like myself (I hope), appreciate that these are pretty hard working aircraft and aren't ornaments that have to look their best at all times.

[Spurlash2]

Study was done some years ago as to whether SK rear crew could suffer from too much soot inhalation... Not sure what happened to that study..

I do have a pic of a manky filter that was used in that study (somewhere!) from a SAR rearcrew person. Makes me cough just looking at it!

[glojo]

Don't worry about it coffin its just the usual pprune whiners with nothing better to do with their sad and pathetic lives. That's you glojo. Not sure about my life being either sad or pathetic but I respect your right to say that.

John

[tucumseh]

Tallsar

Quite right about pic.

Major problem in cost/serviceability/availability terms was alarming corona discharge caused by ingestion into radar Tx/Rx, which sat next to intake vent and blew efflux straight though the cooling fan/filter into the magnetron and its HT cables. The MoD tried to claim recompense against the radar manufacturers (MEL) for alleged unreliability, who gleefully pointed out that the whole point of a Radio Installation Memorandum (RIM) was to use it as the basic rules for aircraft installation design. Follow it, and you don't have the problem. Now fit the thing as per the book. (It didn't help that some of the specs didn't call for over-water ops, so the kit wasn't resistant to salt water - bit of a howler that).

MoD (AMSO at the time - Does anyone else notice they keep cropping up?) declined. And to make sure the root problem was hidden, they cancelled the need for RIMs, which in turn led to even more problems as increasingly systems were not integrated properly. (e.g. See Tornado/Patriot BoI).

Interesting how quickly one can establish links between manky aircraft and accidents. :oh:

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

how long would it take to clean off that filth?


Glojo,

Much as I enjoy many of your posts, this time you're mistaken. The aircraft wash takes less than an hour (depending on how many people are involved), but what does take time is the re-greasing of all the moving parts which inevitably get sprayed with water and foam as the upper parts of the airframe get cleaned.

Because of the Working At Height regulations, any work on the rotor head etc has to be done in the hangar, surrounded by staging. This is not the fault of either the RAF or the SKIOS engineers, many of whom find the WAH restrictions frustrating. If the aircraft is in the hangar surrounded by staging, it cannot be off the ground within 15 minutes - therefore the aircraft cannot be washed on 1st Standby. If both aircraft are serviceable at once, then one aircraft can be washed, but as soon as one breaks, the other one won't get washed (plus of course the engineers are busy fixing the broken one). And before anyone starts, while the aircrew could indeed help the busy engineers by washing an aircraft, noone will trust us to do the re-grease etc!

Another issue at this time of year is that the hoses etc in the aircraft wash pan can freeze meaning that washes have to be deferred. Been a bit chilly in north-east England lately, I believe? Frankly the airframe in the picture is much cleaner than many I have seen!

[glojo]

Hi Torque,
Only a fool believes they are right 100% of the time and I am NOT talking about your excellent and very informative post.

Hopefully you will NEVER see me argue with anyone or of course be rude to those that post on this forum.

It would be totally wrong for me to suggest this aircraft is the dirtiest aircraft that has taken to the skies and I agree with every word you have wrote.:ok:

[Up up and away]

Whilst on the subject of RAF SAR helos, I saw one at the Blackpool Air Show a couple of years ago and one of the rotor blades was yellow. Is this a simple case of using whatever spares are available or is there a particular reason for this?

[Floppy Link]

Conspicuity ... Stands out like the proverbials when seen from above.