Douglas Bader Interview

[VFE]

Hi folks,

I wonder if anyone here has access to a superb TV studio interview with the late Sir Douglas Bader? I saw this on one of the satellite channels a couple of years ago but missed half of it. It was filmed in what looked like the 1960's, as I say - in a studio environment and saw the legend sat legs akimbo, pipe in hand, engaging the interviewer heartily on all sorts of matters. I hope this rings some bells and sorry I cannot be more specific.

Having done the usual trawls of youtube and the rest of the WWW I'm turning up a blank. If anyone could shine some light on the programme or (joy of joys) has a spare copy they could run off on DVD for me then I would extremely grateful!

Many thanks,

VFE.

[ColinB]

Try here

BBC - Archive - WWII: The Battle of Britain - Late Night Line-up | Douglas Bader (http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/battleofbritain/11406.shtml)

[Feather #3]

Hmm...."Not available your area"!:ugh:

How do we get around that??

G'day ;)

[ColinB]

Move to a civilized country?

[Feather #3]

Colin, there's an argument that anywhere they spell civilised with a "z" may not be so??:confused:

G'day ;)

[porch monkey]

F3. Have had same problem in the past. Either get someone over there to copy and send it to you, or get a proxy server in the UK to enable you to download it here.

[ColinB]

Colin, there's an argument that anywhere they spell civilised with a "z" may not be so??

It appears my spell-checker is in US mode.
PS Feathers,
Apologies for the off colour (spell-checker tried to change it to color) remark.

[Tankertrashnav]

Re ise/ize.

This is yet another misapprehension that a spelling preference has somehow been invented by the Americans. The 'ize' spelling was in fact almost universal in the UK in the 19th century, and underwent a gradual shift to 'ise' during the 20th century. The 'ize' spelling hung on in various academic circles, and watching an old episode of 'Morse' recently, I noticed that Morse dismissed a supposed suicide note as a fake as "no self-respecting Oxford man would spell 'realise' with an 's' ". Like many old English spellings and usages, (tire, gotten etc) it has hung on in the US long after it virtually disappeared over here

[Feather #3]

Great stuff! Thanks all and pm, I shall get a mate to copy.

G'day ;)

[FlightlessParrot]

Further to TTN's post: -ize spellings are still the preferred style of Oxford University Press, though OUP uses analyse.

[Lightning Mate]

Having met this so-called fighter pilot in person, I am prepared to tell interested persons what he was really like?

If you do not wish your illusions to be shattered, then please do not PM me.

[PAXboy]

I recall a conversation I had with a biographer of Sir D.B. (in about 1999 as I recall) and it was clear that the subject of this thread was a VERY difficult fellow to deal with. Yes, he had all the fighting qualities that are rightfully attributed to him but it is clear that he never stopped fighting! Not an easy man. Assuredly interesting but, possibly, not the kind of person you would have invited to a quiet dinner party!

It is oft said that one should not meet one's heroes. I have given up reading biographies or seeing documentaries about people I admire. It's a one way street. I don't think anyone admires me but if they saw a warts and all documentary on me - they certainly wouldn't!! :uhoh:

[John Farley]

We must have got him on the same day.

Or perhaps all days were the same?

[ShyTorque]

Having met this so-called fighter pilot in person, I am prepared to tell interested persons what he was really like? If you do not wish your illusions to be shattered, then please do not PM me.

We must have got him on the same day.
Or perhaps all days were the same?

I concur. I met him when he was guest of honour at the last ever wings presentation at BFTS at Linton-on-Ouse. That would have been 15 Course, in 1977 I think; wings were not presented until after AFTS after that.

Are we allowed to say grumpy old git?

No, I meant him, not me... although that might be where I caught it from...

[kluge]

Lightning Mate

I'm interested in what you have to say.
Please check your PM.

Thank you.

K

[old-timer]

I heard similar reports from someone who met him in the 60's at Fairoaks, I'd
be intersted to hear more, good to know the truth - will PM, thanks.

[BSD]

The obituary written in The Times for his batman during his time in Colditz makes for interesting reading.

Alex Ross, a Seaforth Highlander. A quick google search will find it I'm sure but once again, if you want your heroes untarnished then don't read it.

BSD.

[old-timer]

BSD

I read it & you're dead right, it shatters any illusions of a fair character.

Dambusters [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-276355.html)

PS -I know 'dambusters' sounds off topic but scroll down the opened link to find Alex's details about his time with DB

[PPRuNe Pop]

I am of the old school. I do not accept that character assassinations of our heros is warranted or fair. When I met him he came across as being pompous but his status as a hero was untouchable. His record was unimpeachable and his ideas were poo pooed by lesser commanders than Park but not by those he fought with. He got things done and to overcome a foolish moment at Woodley he paid the price but he returned the faith
placed in him. He became a good leader and was fearless. The RAF say he was shot down - he said he had a collision - who cares? DB was a brave man and one of this nations heros. What else matters?

[ShyTorque]

Hero, I agree 100%.

But I preferred the Kenneth Moore version to the man we met. Sorry if that offends.

[rightbank]

Hmm...."Not available your area"!

How do we get around that??



When outside the UK I use EXPAT SHIELD to get the BBC.

Expat Shield (http://www.expatshield.com/)

Once its downloaded and opened you will find the link in post #2 will work. You may find some audio from an advert playing in the background, but to get rid of that simply close the page that the ad is on.

[Noyade]

Once its downloaded and opened you will find the link in post #2 will work

Works for me now. Thank you sir! :ok:

[742-xx]

I am of the old school. I do not accept that character assassinations of our heros is warranted or fair. When I met him he came across as being pompous but his status as a hero was untouchable. His record was unimpeachable and his ideas were poo pooed by lesser commanders than Park but not by those he fought with. He got things done and to overcome a foolish moment at Woodley he paid the price but he returned the faith
placed in him. He became a good leader and was fearless. The RAF say he was shot down - he said he had a collision - who cares? DB was a brave man and one of this nations heros. What else matters?

Exactly. I think most people of that era come across that way.
When I started work in 1984 I worked with people of that era who were also in the war, and they possessed the same 'qualities'.
But apart from that the man is a hero, and deserves respect.

[longer ron]

I have met quite a few WW2 pilots...some of high rank!!
I can honestly say that DB was the most pompous/unlikeable...the others were gents !
None of us can change our natural character,but as we age then we seem to either mellow out or not !!!

[Tankertrashnav]

Exactly. I think most people of that era come across that way.


I think you have been unlucky in your experience of meeting WW2 veterans. In the 30 years or so that I ran a militaria shop I must have spoken to hundreds from all the services and in general I found them modest and self effacing. I have mounted gallantry medals for men who would have been highly embarrassed to be called heroes, but who undoubtedly were. One man I never met but would have loved to was Group Captain Leonard Cheshire, VC. This was a man who was an acknowledged hero, but who after the war moved on and devoted his life to the service of those less fortunate than himself.

You don't have to be an arse to be a hero.

[Dave Barnshaw]

Longer Ron, You are so right with your note concerning D.B.,when I was a member of The West London Aero club at White Waltham airfield where his aircraft was based-he would park it up-walk up to the club bar and say to the barmaid-"tea",no please,thanks or kiss my arse or anything,sat down on his own and waited for the barmaid to bring his tea over for him,and not once did I ever see him bring his wife in with him,and Lady Bader is such a sweet lady-she deserved better.my other comments would be:mad:

[JW411]

I met DB twice when I was a young man. He was my hero until I met him. I went on to serve in the Royal Air Force as a pilot for 18 years. I met and carried many senior officers from WW II and I can safely say that Bader was the most obnoxious person that I ever did meet.

He was a huge disappointment to me.

[cyflyer]

I was privileged to meet him circa 1976 whilst still in school in London. He came to give some awards or such, I was an Air cadet, we chatted. It was an honour for me to meet him, and thats how I'll always remember it.

[GQ2]

'Hero' ;- What an abused word this has become. Every snotty-nosed chav that can kick a ball is now referred to as a 'hero'. If we are talking real heroism - we are talking about something totally in another league. If we are judging individuals agaist this reference plane, then, frankly, the fact that they don't suffer fools gladly or may (Shock-horror..) be a tad rude, - is frankly of bugger-all importance. People do love to drag heros down. We see the same sort of character assasination levelled against Gibson. If you admire a person for their deeds, I see no reason for that admiration to be diminished one iota because they are socially inept. It's irrelevant. If you wan't to judge people for 'niceness', that's fine, but it's not a sound method for grading heros.

Baders men seemed to be prepared to fly through hell for him.

I've been luck enough to meet a few heros, and they were gentlemen and scholars to a man, but they were also men of their time. As was DB.

A friend of mine who knew DB told me a little story. Back when the brave lads of the IRA were putting Cemtex under anything that moved, a young soldier has his legs blown off. He was poorly and in a very depressed state in a hospital in NI. DB heard about it, jumped on a flight to NI and went to see the guy. He breezed in, gave the fellow a great pep-talk, and flew back to London. He wasn't asked, wasn't paid and didn't get a penny for it. I don't think the media even picked it up. Neither was it the only time.

Judge a man by his deeds.

[longer ron]

I do not think that anybody is denying that DB had some admirable qualities,and he certainly did do a lot of work with/for the disabled.
I simply do not accept the statement that he was a man of his time!
The other pilots of that time (like DB) had their own personalities,ones personality is not really of any 'time',it was DB's personality that got him into trouble and it was that personality that made him a popular leader with some of his commissioned pilots.I think perhaps it is his handling of lesser mortals (with the exception of the disabled) which is the problem!

rgds LR

[corsair]

Baders men seemed to be prepared to fly through hell for him.
I remember an interview with a contemporary of his, another pilot. I can't remember where but as I recall he had little regard for Bader and he felt that he got pilots killed unneccessarily. There was even a suggestion that his shootdown was no accident.

Whether true or not it fits with general perception of those who knew flew with or knew him.

[GQ2]

'I remember an interview with a contemporary of his, another pilot. I can't remember where but as I recall he had little regard for Bader and he felt that he got pilots killed unneccessarily. There was even a suggestion that his shootdown was no accident.
Whether true or not it fits with general perception of those who knew flew with or knew him.'

The people that actually knew him usually defended DB strongly, despite his clearly truculent nature. Baders tactics were actually aimed at reducing losses. Meeting someone fleetingly once or twice is assuredly not 'knowing them', much less quoting unatributed sources and rumours such as the above. I don't think Johnnie Johnson would have agreed with you. As for this 'shoot-down'. He said there was a collision. Since he was there (Rather than flying a laptop PC..), I'm rather inclined to take his word for it.:rolleyes:

[jindabyne]

For what it's worth, I met him once at RIAT, pre-lunch. Opinionated (aren't we all here?), a little gruff (I can be), but not unpleasant (which I might be, if I don't rate you, IMHO). He did what he did, and I admire him for that - regardless of his other reported traits. Cutting him to pieces now is, I think, somewhat unnecessary, a tad distasteful, and disingenuous. I have opinions of some posters here, but I wouldn't dream of slagging them off in public - not until you're dead that is :rolleyes:

[sixtiesrelic]

We had him in the cockpit from just after takeoff at Sydney to after landing at Canberra and found him a funny interesting man. It was the eighties and he was on holidays. Maybe he had mellowed.
He was wrapped to sit in the jumpseat for the flight.
I've not seen the other side of him so enjoyed every moment of the flight.
We were mad as hell that it was only forty minutes chock to chock.

[FAStoat]

I had the privilege of meeting him several times,whilst at Parties given by Jock Maitland at Biggin Hill Air Days and Battle of Britain Displays.Usually there were supporters present,especially Bob Standford Tuck!!Having been at the same School as his two sons(albeit some years younger than I) I had known him as a visiting parent.I used to know and talk to Tom Gleave about those times,who lived very close to me,and thus I found many differing opinions of this man,from his contemporaries-for a Great Man he undoubtably was,and most would agree.He usually kept the same Pint of Shandy going all night,whereas his colleagues ended up well in their cups.At the end of an evening it was DB that was still on his feet talking to the young pilots standing all around him,whilst the stories of the others blended with a haze of alcohol.If anyone still has the video of the 76 Biggin Hill Air Day they will know what I mean,during a usual Raymond Baxter interview with one the day after.Furthermore the delightful now unfortunately the "Late" Pete Thorn,whilst performing with BBMF at the Biggin Airshows,used to do a superb take off of DB strutting around on his tin legs behind his Mk2 Spitfire together with pipe,when DB appeared with same Raymond Baxter and "Jacko" Jackson,from the tail of the Lanc.To the amazement of those present,Douglas Bader laughed louder than anyone else and complimented him not only on his "Take off",but also on the standard of the BBMF flying under the then Boss Mick Rau,who was in convulsions!!!Such was this great man,who had the misfortune to really piss off others,but deep down has to be respected as a Star.Later on, when Chief Safety Officer with the CAA,he actually got me off a low flying charge-doing aerobatics below 1500' from a church spire and a couple of houses,which the Lords and Masters were trying to say was a built up area!!!!,so I for one have good reason to respect him fully.

[Tankertrashnav]

At the end of an evening it was DB that was still on his feet


In a manner of speaking ;)

When I was at Marham, Kenneth More came to have a look around the squadron and one of our blokes couldnt resist remarking "I see your legs are a lot better". He laughed, although he'd probably heard it 100 times before.

[corsair]

Meeting someone fleetingly once or twice is assuredly not 'knowing them', much less quoting unatributed sources and rumours such as the above. I don't think Johnnie Johnson would have agreed with you. As for this 'shoot-down'. He said there was a collision. Since he was there (Rather than flying a laptop PC..), I'm rather inclined to take his word for it. Calm down, I simply repeated something said of him by an RAF pilot who flew with him. Who was there!

As for the collision, this had been thoroughly debunked lately. But it was suggested he knew but maintained the fiction to protect the reputation of the pilot concerned. An admirable position to hold if true.

For what it's worth, I've no opinion negative or positive on his personality. But his achievement speaks for itself. Plus there's no disputing he was a superb pilot. If I could fly half as well as him with my two good legs. I would definitely be a better pilot than I am now.

[longer ron]

But he wasnt as good as the 'Moustachioed aerobatic king of Tangmere' was he ?
:ok:

= 'the other' Pat Gibbs

Edit - for clarity Flt Lt E P P Gibbs( Ltr W/cdr)

[Fantome]

At school in Sydney in 1955 we in the ATC lined up for his autograph.

But did not hear him address any of us. Gave the signed paper eventually to a young fella who was deeply into WW11 RAF and Luftwaffe books by the combatants.

Years later I was given a tape of himself addressing a mayorial gathering in the Launceston Town Hall. He and his wife had just driven the 200 odd kms Hobart to Launie. DB was in top form and his reply to the mayor's bumbling welcome is hilarious.

(PS Perhaps the funniest exchange recorded about his time as a guest of the Nazis is when the German doctor who first examined him said "Ah . . . I see you lost your leg before you lost your leg." Of course DB's first though was
"Just wait till the bugger sees the other one.")

[Noyade]

Complete thread drift...

At school in Sydney in 1955 we in the ATC lined up for his autograph.

I remember lining up at school to hear Sir Roden Cutler speak about Gallipoli. The guy was brilliant...my childhood/adult 'hero'.

Sorry, carry on.