CASA closes rifle ranges

[superdimona]

Air safety concerns close rifle ranges - Local News - News - General - The Examiner Newspaper (http://www.examiner.com.au/news/local/news/general/air-safety-concerns-close-rifle-ranges/2451972.aspx)

FIVE Northern Tasmanian rifle ranges were forced to close last week following air safety concerns from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.The Tasmanian Gun Club's Evandale range, a Blessington range and three ranges owned by the Esk Field and Game, Tamar Pistol Club and Northern Midlands Sporting Clays, were all temporarily closed on Wednesday.
The safety authority said that shot shells could reach up to 1000 metres, a claim rubbished by Tasmania Gun Club secretary Alan Styles.


Does anyone like CASA?

[Worrals in the wilds]

I do, if they've got a shottie with a 1000 metre range.
I'm happy to be their new best friend (until I can get my little mitts on it, anyway)...:}:rolleyes:
Never heard of one before, my guess is that it must be a pretty unique firearm...maybe they could flog it off and fund some more 'experts'. :\
300 yards is the figure that gets bandied around regarding safe distances for shot gun ranges.

[VH-XXX]

I find it interesting how many pistol clubs are located near airports. I guess it's just a matter of realestate. Off the top of my head:

- Geelong (Grovedale)
- Darwin
- Point Cook
- Melbourne Airport!

I'm sure there are many more.

Did anyone else ever shoot pistols at Melbourne airport pistol club? I recall firing off a few mags with 747's and many other large aircraft flying directly overhead. It was a little concerning at first. They were seriously so close it was like you could take out a tyre if you wanted.

Perhaps that's why the club closed down!

I remember getting the directions. Drive past Tulla and enter at Gate 5 ! The road took me past an old wrecked aircraft with doors that opened at the front - looked a little like a Dove and had trailers and rubbish in it.

[Chu Mai Huang]

They are also going to stop those vans selling icecreams and hotdogs at the carpark on the north side of Melbourne Airport. Check out the Aussie flags on the those vans via google earth. Surely they are a danger to landing aircraft?:E

[Socket]

I don't understand why gobbledock hasn't posted his usual diatribe here yet. Is he asleep? CASA has been mentioned after all.

[Wally Mk2]

I think BDG might have a rifle range close by, or that might be an ammo dump.

I've wondered about those two ice cream vans located Nth of Tulla ya fly right over them on App to Rwy 16 Lit up like xmas trees they are. Who'd wanna buy an ice cream from them anyway the amount of exhaust fumes being dumped in that area they prolly taste like Jet A1:)
Tulla also has a toy plane field not too far from the Airport, SW direction. I was told the boys in the Twr watch them from time to time with there bino's.No way would they stay blw 100 mtrs all the time.


Wmk2

[superdimona]

I wouldn't give CASA any ideas. They're already disliked in GA, now target shooters, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if model-aircraft were next (just wave the "threat to aviation safety" card and they're all magically banned). Maybe kite-fliers after that?

[Worrals in the wilds]

...and then people who live in tall buildings :eek::}

[Frank Arouet]

YGTH has a large bore rifle club (7.62) within striking distance of every SAAB landing on 24. Strange the "spooks" didn't pick up on that. Probably better to shut the airport than move the rifle range.

[Wally Mk2]

.....who'd wanna shoot at a Saab anyway? That's not very sporting there so slow it would be like shooting rats in a barrel!:E
The toy plane club at Tulla I believe has a dispo to operate there as they are within the 4 k's I think it is of a licensed drome.
If anyone ever flies into Cohuna (NthVic) then duck as you App the nth rwy as there is a toy plane club right beside the airport boundary!!!


Wmk2

[Jabawocky]

The Evandale range would be 3NM or a bit more from 32L, so say overhead at 1000 feet.

Can't see any shotgun getting them from there. Rifle rounds a different story though.

[stevep64]

"it wouldn't surprise me in the least if model-aircraft were next"

They already do. Talking to a work colleague yesterday that flies model planes, he reckons CASA have told his club they need to check the experience of anyone doing displays for the public.

Speaking of rifle ranges and model aero clubs. Most of the rifle ranges in Brisbane are close to the approach to YBBN at Belmont and there's a big model field at Tingalpa which, I believe, is one of the STAR waypoints into the same airport.

[VH-XXX]

We have one nearby where the models (mind you, some of them rival a Pitts in appearance) regularly fly at over 1,000 ft. One day, I had one pull up in a stall turn literally beside me. Scared me because I thought it was real.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Most of the rifle ranges in Brisbane are close to the approach to YBBN at BelmontAnd in an awesome planning effort, the Belmont Shooting Complex also houses the Queensland Racing Pigeon Federation. Hopefully the pigeons have been reading the rules. :}

[YPJT]

Talking to a work colleague yesterday that flies model planes, he reckons CASA have told his club they need to check the experience of anyone doing displays for the public. I guess with the increase now in UAVs CASA are rubbing their hands in glee at the even wider group of the populaton they can p1ss off to no end.

[flying-spike]

Seeing as Goobledock is busy I will step into the fray. CASA have no authority to regulate the use of firearms apart apart from when it is done from an aircraft. They could express their concern over the location of a range, little else.
Pistol and shotgun ranges, surely they jest. The only way a pistol or shot gun round will travel 1000m is if you dropped it from that height.

Target rifles, different story. I have a .308 target rifle and have fired it regularly at a range of 900m. That said our range is 100km north of Brisbane and has a mountain behind the stop-butt.

Personally, if CASA paid any heed to the level of criticism they receive on this forum they would not go anywhere near a loaded weapon.

[frigatebird]

Our local SmallBore, Pistol, and Big Bore range on the away-from-Airport side of town was closed on the 31st of December. We thought we had at least another 12 months use, and were negotiating to keep it open permanently still (it has been there for over a 100 years), but seems the letter had a 'typographical' error of date, 2012 should have read 2011, according to the managing authority, Dept of Administratiuon and Infrastructure, or something.... So the notice went on the gate 'Do not use' while we were in recess over the New Year, and the first that most Clubmembers found out about it was when they rolled up to have a shoot..
The Army Department used to control it, and I remember doing some shoots there with machine guns and SLRs during National service. We have some great facilities there for pistol shooting and Silhouette competitions but can't touch them till the present situation is resolved.

Seems the Army didn't want to control the real estate anymore (probably Liability issues) and handed it to a Civil Servant run Department - and they are keen to realise the monetary value of the asset to make their 'Administration' look good to their political masters....
Hypocritial - in my view - to deny citizens including youth, the possible future recruits for the Armed services, the opportunity to learn the shooting skills they may need later to fulfill a Government overseas agenda..

So as a Club, we went to Childers yesterday, to the Isis range, and shot in the competition there. There were shooters from Mundubbera, Bingera/Kolan, Bundaberg, Isis, Maryborough, Hervy Bay and Gympie in attendance.... We had to have 4 details of 20 shooters in each detail, to get through the 2 by 40 shot match. Some of the best shooting seen was done by the youngsters with their new rifles - they certainly put me to shame with my Winchester 69a that I was given 50 years ago....

That range would be in under a wide Childers circuit too.

This country is getting really stuffed up....
by the 'Civil' Servants and politicians......

[Trojan1981]

There is a nice (military) range in Hawaii where you can blat away all day with 5.56 and 7.62 automatic weapons as USMC helicopters fill the skies all around you from the nearby air station; many at low level. AFAIK none have been hit.

[Tankengine]

Kingaroy gun club is on short final to rwy 05.
100-150' there on occasion!:eek:

[YPJT]

Anyone remember the old skeet shooting range at Georges Hall where the arcs of fire were directly over BK with the boundary only a couple of hundred metres at most.

Another one that comes to mind is the Swanbourne range which has I think about a 1000m classificaton range which is about 45 deg to the coast line , a 25m open air range and a sniper range. Ironically when they put the red flags up, people are not allowed to walk along the beach even though they are protected by a dirty big line of sand dunes but aircraft can fly low level down the coast. :ugh: :ugh:

[PLovett]

Hobart R12 ILS passes over a military range (or very close to it - albeit aircraft would be at approx. 4,000') located at Pontville. Alice Springs R12 ILS passes very close to a huge shooting range (large and small bore, pistol and archery) where the ranges actually point towards the landing aircraft on late finals (there are large earth embankments behind the butts). Port Macquarie has a range adjacent to the airport (think its shotgun but may also be large bore rifle).

[peterc005]

The funniest one is in Frankston, where the Remore Controlled aero club is located next to the Skeet Shooting club.

Not a good combination. Sure to end in tears for the RC plane people :-(

[flying-spike]

As an Army cadet in the early seventies I used to shoot at Swanbourne up to 3 times a week (we were in a Commonwealth Cadet competition). On one occasion I let a few(7-10) rounds from a Bren on fully automatic over the stop-buts. Front page of the Sunday Times the next day was a fisherman with is tinny perforated by .303. They have buoys saying don't drop anchor here when the red flag is flying but he must have thought they meant somebody else!

[Trojan1981]

Sure to end in tears for the RC plane people :-(

Unless General Atomics come to play :E

[CaptainMidnight]

If CASA has suddenly decided that all these civil ranges that have been in existance for many years in the vicinity of airports are a problem, they're certainly making a national issue for themselves and airport owners.

CASA needs to do a thorough hazard assessment to quantify the real risk to aviation, and if there are factors for concern, work with the ranges to come up with things to reduce or eliminate the risk. Example - eliminate things that can cause a ricochet.

The article seems to suggest CASA is trying to shift responsibility to ATC to mitigate the risk.

[VH-XXX]

It's ridiculous. There are so many places that this could apply to.

The Sale Pistol Club is directly in line with approach an departure for an APM Aggie trip... Where it would end nobody knows.

Aircraft occasionally fly in there (mwa included) but the club only operates on Saturdays so I wonder if they would need a trained observer and if they would need a tower to see above the tree line.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
I remember it well, you could sit in the old RACNSW bar and watch the shooting through the bottom of your beer glass.
Right about where the "heliport' is now situated.
The direct line of fire was towards the old 11 threshold.
Tootle pip!!

[angry ant]

Leadsled,

You are exactly right, in the days of Pat G (CFI) and Bill L (Asst CFI), Alan M, Fred F, and others in the bar there. I have three claims to fame there, shotgun shooting, getting a Club Chippy back on the ground, after a flap failure, port one down fully and the stab. one fully up, I must admit,I was a wee bit worried in the circuit and thirdly, my lovely Lady and I had our Wedding Reception there.

What a pity the Club went under, I and other ex Club members who were in RPT, would go there when ever the Club had reunion Dinner night.

Vale. Arthur E Kell, ex. 617 Squadron. His was one of the 3 bombs that hit and sank the Battleship, Tirpitz. My Wife and I have been to the Squadron base at Lossiemouth, where he is still remembered and highly thought of.

irate binatang

angry ant

[gobbledock]

Spike, you used to shoot at Swanbourne three times per week hey? You should have tried taking a gun with you also!

Socket, no need for rude manners. I was most certainly not asleep, just thought I would hibernate from this thread simply because CASA's latest foray into 'things of a ridiculous nature' was not worth commenting on as it is so ridiculous. However now that you have awoken the bear from his slumber, just for you, I shall slide a gentle knife into the back of the western worlds worst aviation safety regulator;
Yep, ban rifle ranges but build a Field Office 3 stories high almost directly under an approach path? Oh I forgot, I heard it comes with it's own basement worm farm. Is that where they hide or the QF findings??

[flying-spike]

Ah yes Gobbledock, left myself open there. True when I was a young bloke I did shoot on fully automatic and over great distances, then I bought a rifle. Sadly, my back injury sees me shooting far less frequently and over shorter ranges when I do. That and being limited to one shooting position due to the bad back I have been forced to consider using a hand gun.......has anybody got a spare photo of Margaret Thatcher they can lend me?

[Cactusjack]

has anybody got a spare photo of Margaret Thatcher they can lend me?
I'll bite. No pictures of Maggie. But I do have a laminated photo of O.Wirthless, slightly used but I am sure it will suffice. I also have several photo's of Amanda Vanstone wearing leather chaps, lederhosen, a catwoman suit and nothing but body paint. CHOICE!

[YPJT]

As an Army cadet in the early seventies I used to shoot at Swanbourne up to 3 times a week (we were in a Commonwealth Cadet competition). On one occasion I let a few(7-10) rounds from a Bren on fully automatic over the stop-buts. Front page of the Sunday Times the next day was a fisherman with is tinny perforated by .303. They have buoys saying don't drop anchor here when the red flag is flying but he must have thought they meant somebody else!
Yeah I remember an M-60 practice one day and witnessing the multiple thwacks as a stray bursts went over the stop butts and hit the water several hundred metres off shore.

[VH-XXX]

I've been at Puckapunyal (Vic Army base) firing an F89 Minimi with tracers and the F88 Steyr and BELIEVE me, you wouldn't want to be anywhere near that place in an aircraft!!!!

Which is why it's a great idea that it is a restricted area overhead, day and night.

I can't believe some pilots are still dumb enough to fly through there contrary to the efforts of Melbourne Centre. If you do, there is a fair chance that you might get shot down or at least shot at by some 18yr old Army Recruit with a Minimi machine gun!

[Trojan1981]

That's ok, you won't hit or hurt anything with a Minimi anyway! It's Armour and their 50cals (and up) I'd be worried about! They underestimate their trace and frequently send neighbouring units diving for cover!

The worst offenders for flying through the trace area are undoubtably the RAAF. Last time I was at Singleton (on course) there were several C-130Hs conducting LL Tac flying and approaches to Dochra. Range Control didn't even know they were there until Cav Scouts firing 50 cal further down complained about them passing low in the line of fire! :ugh:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Ah, Leadie and 'AA',

Some 'mamories' there....

In 'dem good ole days' I too, well remember the sound of 'shot pellets raining down' onto the wings of the Chippy whilst holding at the 11 threshold.

They had no real velocity left - having descended under the force of Mr Newton's apple from a 'great ht'.....and were simply seen by Messrs. McCullagh, Jennings, Barlow, Fethers, Menzies, & co. as a source of 'amusement'....the sound of them 'rattling' on the fabric / metal top surfaces was unmistakeable....
Never flew with Mr Lord off 11....did my 1st solo under his guidance off '23'....
And that was a 'hoot'. It was onto the grass in those days, and he was wearing his green 'flight suit' - as we all did - and I didn't see him on the green grass until well down....and he went 'that way' just as I was going 'that way', so I changed direction just as he changed direction....you can see where this is going....Well, I missed him, but we both had a good laugh about it.
Strangely enuf, it was one of the 'few' times I saw him smile......


Did a couple of 'Navs' with Arthur in the PA.28's ...a thorough Gentleman.

June / July '64.....(Old Farts...)

Cheers:ok::ok:

[danger85]

Not quite as disturbing as a rifle range next door, but the local clay target range in Bunbury is right next to the aerodrome. Friday afternoons you could hear the buckshot raining down on the hangars from the range. Wasn't too bad when there was no taxiway down to 07, but now the taxiway to 07 takes you right past the range. Not pleasant having buckshot raining down on you as you taxi past.

[flywatcher]

Danger85, it is unlikely to be buckshot at a clay target range, more likely nine shot for skeet and seven shot for down the line. At 100 metres range you could probably catch it in your cap.

[Trojan1981]

Hey Danger,

I was flying in WA for a bit last year and went into Bunbury a few times. I was bored one day and so headed down to the range for a look (have done quite a bit of shooting with shotguns as part of previous employment). If a shooter put a high round off to the SE, the shot can fall on the NW most hangars. All their energy is expended at this point however and the shot is harmless. The trees and distance conspire to ensure that there is little, if any, chance of shot reaching the taxiway.

One of the older blokes based in Bunbers told me that they were trying to get it shut down. I don't think that's really necessary. The gun club should pre-empt this by realigning the range; but this is WA so common sense doesn't always prevail.

[kaz3g]

What was so special about the Wednesday?

A shotgun that has a range of 1000 metres? Pull the other one!

Most target pistols are loaded so their projectiles have the trajectory of a brick after 100 metres and even target centrefire rifles are generally loaded with very light loads to prolong barrell life and minimise recoil errors.

kaz

[kaz3g]

"The funniest one is in Frankston, where the Remore Controlled aero club is located next to the Skeet Shooting club."

Same thing at Lilydale only the airfield is there, too.

kaz

[VH-XXX]

Most target pistols are loaded so their projectiles have the trajectory of a brick after 100 metres

Not when I'm reloading them! My 38 supers used to be 1500fps+

[Super Cecil]

Not when I'm reloading them! My 38 supers used to be 1500fps+
Spose your using girlie 115 grainers for that speed?:8

[Worrals in the wilds]

So...this seems to be more common than not. In fact we'd probably be better off listing the airfields that don't have shooting ranges next door. :\

Reckon CASA might have opened a large can of worms with this one? A bit larger and smellier than they expected? :ooh:

[Pinky the pilot]

even target centrefire rifles are generally loaded with very light loads to prolong barrell life and minimise recoil errors.

Not mine kaz3g nor any other of my Rifle Club members. 7.62 loads;44gn of AR2206H with a 155gn projectile. Close to maximum loads from memory.

[flywatcher]

I wouldn't worry too much about 7 and 9 shot from the clay target club falling on you. You could eat it without it doing any damage, unless you bend over and shoot your dog.

[LeadSled]

Ex FSO Griffo,
Who was the instructor you used to race bikes on the Sydney Showground speedway on Saturday nights?? Spike something??
Tom Minehan (spelling??) should also be on the list of identities of the day.
This is also about the time Bill Whitworth got his first job, as a C Grade instructor with Royal. He is still very much still on YSBK.
It's a sad story, the demise of RACNSW, it started off with a huge loss after it was found the bar manager was ripping of both the poker machine sand the bar takings.
Despite heroic efforts, it never recovered from the loss.
Arthur Kell's "family" company, Kell and Rigby Builders has just gone down the tube, it was the oldest building company in NSW.
Time waits for nobody!!
Tootle pip!!

Re. the thread, amazing how CASA can close down shooting ranges, but yet again, in the Senate on Tuesday, claim they have no jurisdiction over buildings or other activities outside aerodrome boundaries.
The Hansard will make interesting reading, particularly Senator David Fawcett's comments about Archerfield, and what happened to the Scouts, the word travesty was used in relation to enforcement of the terms of the Commonwealth lease. The Secretary of Infrastructure and Transport looked most uncomfortable.

[Frank Arouet]

The Minister? Well, he's always got that expression of a cat's bum on his face.

Pat Gallagher rings a bell around those good times at the RAC. Who can forget the Brian Walker hangar nights or one Mr Treloer.

Signed Member F1046.

[kaz3g]

Not when I'm reloading them! My 38 supers used to be 1500fps+

Then it seems you were probably shooting practical rather than Olympic and using awfully light jacketed projectiles and not 158 gr wadcutters.

I used Norma 158 gr jacketed HP in a .357 mag when things were serious!

kaz

[VH-XXX]

IPSC. Proof that a 4 letter acronym need not lead to over administration.

[kaz3g]

Not mine kaz3g nor any other of my Rifle Club members. 7.62 loads;44gn of AR2206H with a 155gn projectile. Close to maximum loads from memory.

Not fair! You are shooting military whereas I shot sporting with .222, .22-250 and .243. I also shot roos into a chiller using a .243 Anschutz with 83gr Sierra HP and a light load of Nobels Rifle No1... that was a long while ago :-)

kaz

[dazza38]

I used to be a firearms instructor, mainly hand guns (as a civilian). Anyway when I was in the RAAF I was a section commander in Ground Combat flight.I used to do a fair bit of night firing exercises. When firing tracer rounds at night, It appears that the ricochets flew a 1000 feet or more into the air. It was the tips of the projectile (the tracer tip) that broke off and and flew that high. The chances of getting hit by a ricohet flying over a range at 1000 of 1500 feet, IMO is next to nil.
If some body on purpose aimed a Aircraft and shot at it, maybe they would hit it.Maybe not.

[dazza38]

This is off thread, but im still jacked off that I had to hand in my Para ordinance P14 45.And my Heckler and Koch USP 9mm.

[daffy67]

I'm guessing the H&K USP was becuase of the 10 round mag limit?
The Para was a nice breakthrough when it came out, I had one when I was in darwin in the 80's and the fat handgrip with so many .45 rounds took a little getting used to.

[Pinky the pilot]

And my Heckler and Koch USP 9mm.

Why?:confused: 9mm is still legal, is it not?

kaz3g; Checked my ADI reloading manual and note that 46gn AR2206H is maximum load.

Back to thread proper; The Rifle Club where I shoot is approx. 5NM from the local airfield and on thankfully rare occasions I have noted incoming aircraft at 500'agl fly right over the range.:eek:

However, we do cease fire whilst they pass.

[Aussie Bob]

Funny, we seem to have forgotten the art of demonstration, suttle civil disobedience or even standing up for ourselves.

One can only speculate what would happen if:

(A) The shooters just kept on shooting and ignored the order
(B) The shooters blocked the entranace to Launceston airport and demanded a hearing and resolution
(C) The shooters did something else noteworthy instead of humbly accepting the new "rule" and just bitching about it.

Dunno, don't shoot myself and I am not really into guns but it seems to me that the majority of Australians are simply whooses who would sever their own fingers if the government called for it. We all get what we deserve.

Some forget how close the shooters party came in Tasmania to winning a seat in parliament.

[VH-XXX]

And my Heckler and Koch USP 9mm. Why?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif 9mm is still legal, is it not?


That's because the new limit is for 10 rounds maximum and it's probable that Dazza's H&K USP 9mm had a 15 round magazine.

The authorities wanted to limit innocent casualties to 10 instead of 15, hence the reduction.

Sounds like some kind of CASA rationalisation and justification doesn't it!

[dazza38]

Hi Guys, The Barrel was too short. On the USP.Just by a few on millimetres. The Magazine compacity was 15 rounds,My P14 was 14 rounds of .45ACP.That was a beautiful Hand gun cost me about $2750 ( I had it modified )

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Leadie,

Spike Jennings was one of my instructors - I guess I must have had them all - almost - that's a great 'training program...I think NOT - NOW!!

Spike was an ex WW2 Mustang pilot who 'walked back' after being shot down - twice in Italy. The second time he wore ARMY boots as the flying boots of the day were just 'too soft' and no good - they 'fell apart'. He told the story of him being found by the Yanks in a vineyard - almost sober....with two women...

Mr Minehan was there. Bill Whitworth ditto.

Lots of stores re the Bar etc...but NOT for these pages.....
Does Goerge C Clarke ring a bell..??

Cheers:ok:

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

There's a rifle range just to the right of short final for 24R in the sandhills at Jandakot, and an RC club at Henderson, been buzzed a few times at Boatyard!

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Aye CFI,
But that one faces (shoots to) the NW...away from the Ad.
It does have fairly large stop butts, but I guess a really 'wild' shot over the top could cause someone, somewhere, a prob.

And, if ya've been 'buzzed' by the 'WARMS' guys and gals....I might suggest that either you may have been a 'bit low'... or ....they have well and truly exceeded their vert. limits....??

Cheers:ok:

[LeadSled]

Ex-FSO Griffo,
Spike Jennings ---- now I remember.
I was Bill Whitworth's very first "victim", his first day on the job, when I had to do a flight test to convert my UK PPL to the AU equivalent, had to do a couple of hours with him to prove I could fly.
---- and when I first learned about how ridiculously restrictive "the rules" were in AU, compared to UK, around western Europe, and in the US, the only other places I had flown, up to that time.
Tootle pip!!

[PLovett]

---- and when I first learned about how ridiculously restrictive "the rules" were in AU, compared to UK, around western Europe, and in the US, the only other places I had flown, up to that time.

Amen to that brother! :ok:

[Pinky the pilot]

it's probable that Dazza's H&K USP 9mm had a 15 round magazine.

If that were the case a substitution of a 10 round mag.(And the surrender of the 15 shot mag.) would have made it legal.
The Barrel was too short. On the USP.Just by a few on millimetres

Could you not have obtained a slightly longer barrel to make it legal? Just asking.

[dazza38]

Howdy,I could have bought a longer barrel for the USP. But when the rules changed to 9mm/38 cal max (unless doing metallic) I didnt want to be restricted to the small calibres.After being a pistol shooter for about 14 years and also working 3 days a week as a range officer/instructor doing 11 hours shifts.I was sort of getting over it.
The mag capacity didnt matter you could still used them.You just couldnt buy new ones.
ps- I still have rifles.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

G'Day AA,

Some 'memories', like all good stories, sometimes have a 'dark' side.....
And although some of the people concerned would have 'passed on' by now,
'some' stories are not for these esteemed pages - and they are no doubt, the more 'interesting' ones......some humourous - and some not!

I mean, who can remember playing 'fighters and bombers' with the aid of a bucket in the middle of the floor of the bar...??

And the lovely Sunday evening dinner dances when 'Betty' was the manager of the dining room.
Those were some very nice nights!

Alright, I'll start this same post in a separate thread.....

Cheers:ok::ok: