CASA medical delay

[Spinner73]

Has anyone else run into this issue recently?

For the last three weeks, I've been chasing up AvMed for my medical (which they inform me is all okay).
Apparently the issue is that their system 'isn't lining up payment receipt numbers properly'. Allegedly, the system thinks the medical hasn't been paid for (it has) and therefore won't allow it to be printed.

On three seperate occasions now, an unfailingly polite and helpful-sounding person at AvMed has assured me that they'll get their IT folks to fix and get it out to me pronto. No such luck thus far.

Has anyone else struck this, or am I truly as unique as a series of alarmed-looking teachers used to tell me? ;)

Cheers
Spin

[mostlytossas]

Yep! Had and passed my medical last November, CASA promptly deducted from my credit card the said fee then nothing. Rang them 2 weeks ago asking for it's whereabouts and got the same story. Told that they would send it straight away manually. Waited and waited with baited breath.
About a week and a half later two certificates turn up in seperate envelopes on the same day. One to stick up each nostril I imagine.
I have dealt with many government depts over the years. There is no doubt that CASA is the most incompetent dept by a country mile.Who will ever forget the desk calendar they sent us with an entire month missing,amongst other memorable blunders and displays of incompetance.:ugh:

[DonC]

I had EXACTLY the same experience - don't know whether to frame the second one or what?

[VH-XXX]

Did mine at the end of Jan and got it back 2 weeks later.

[international hog driver]

Add me to the list.... Medical done Dec 14..... Arrived Jan 30.

Absolute BS! did my FAA.... got it the Spot! did my JAA... 11 days and it came from the other side of the planet.

Unfortunately, the empire builders have no incentive to change and it will only get worse, their constant mantra is safety, there is no such thing as service.

[Cirronimbus]

Yeah, I received two certificates too. The replacement one arrived before the original. Gotta love their work!

[John Eacott]

Avmed is currently a nightmare: my medical was at the end of October last year, and my certificate (finally) arrived last Friday :roll eyes:

Apart from losing my medical in their internal IT lockup mid December, when I called a week ago to enquire how much longer I was given the 'failed to print on 29th January' excuse. I was then advised that there was no way they could identify which medicals had failed to print and therefore relied on us to ring and alert them :eek:

On top of the CMO moving the goalposts without reference (Blood sugar test anyone? Criteria was shifted from 6% to 5.5%, go spend more $$$) the system is fats becoming Alice in Wonderland stuff. To be told they have to process 30,000 medicals a year doesn't fill me full of confidence :=

[chimbu warrior]

Actually had a great experience this year. Did my medical a month ago and had the certificate in my hand just over a week later. :D

[rmcdonal]

I had my medical in Early Nov last year, sent all the credit card details along with it so that it would go through without an issue. Changed my credit card in Late Dec. Received my medical in mid Jan. Received a letter from CASA, in late Jan, saying that my credit card details where incorrect and that they wouldn't process my medical until I paid them.... :}

[Capt Claret]

I had my medical in Early Nov last year, sent all the credit card details along with it so that it would go through without an issue. Changed my credit card in Late Dec. Received my medical in mid Jan. Received a letter from CASA, in late Jan, saying that my credit card details where incorrect and that they wouldn't process my medical until I paid them.... :}

Wouldn't know their @rse was on fire until you told them. Even then they'd probably not believe you! :ugh:

[T28D]

Medical 17 November DAME OK CLARC says medical is issued, still not here, something about the computer is Kaput initial delay but now have a PDF copy and a delegates letter saying the PDF is OK to carry as evidence of the certificate.

Amazingly inept, taken a series of Emails to avned to get any sense into the situation.

Fort Fumble at its best !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stevep64]

I got four identical letters from them regarding my medical. Two of them even turned up in separate envelopes on the same day. Still waiting for my certificate and my medical was in the middle of November.

[kingRB]

I just had my renewal last week, going to ring them tomorrow to pay by CC. Maybe I should ring them up and tell them i've already paid for it, see if I can play their ineptness to my advantage? :E

[SgtBundy]

Side question - when I did my first medical I did a class 1 in order to ensure if I wanted to do my CPL I could, figuring at least when it lapses to a class 2 I can keep doing my PPL. Because of a poor lung volume test, they made me see a lung specialist, which between bookings etc dragged the process out another two months.

In the end the diagnosis was just a smaller than normal lung capacity probably as a result of my childhood asthma, but otherwise fine. Eventually AvMed approved it. When I got the certificate the date of commencement was from the day I first saw the DAME (some 3 months earlier), not the date CASA finally approved it (*groan*). My condition was apparently so special it was marked as "approve by CASA only" - and both the class 1 and class 2 expirations were the same date, only a one year certificate.

Has anyone else experienced this? "Special" approvals apply to both class 1 and 2 with the Class 2 being only one year (or in my case, effectively only 9 months). I don't relish the idea of having to see a lung specialist and chase approvals every year for what seems to be a fairly minor issue.

[djpil]

SgtBundy, I've had a similar experience however I got a Class 1 with no such restrictions and they had a restriction of "for CASA audit" on the Class 2 with one year (ends up being 9 months as you say) expiry instead of two. When I queried it I was asked if I was flying commercially, "yes" was the answer .. so, the Class 2 doesn't matter. My reply was to the effect that one day I will get sick of dealing with them so may decide not to renew the Class 1 ... the clerk was quite helpful in general but wasn't her decision.
I should add that I have no complaint in my case. However the process should be swifter and more sensible in general.
Been a month since I paid for my last renewal so I guess mine is in a pigeonhole somewhere.

[T28D]

CLARC urgently needs some business process modelling, it is a mess, public servants at their worst.

[esreverlluf]

I did my medical in early November, no certificate by mid-Dec. Rang CLARC, they reckoned they hadn't got the paperwork from the DAME, several phone calls, faxes, weeks later and DAME had to re-submit paperwork not once, but twice.

Eventually medical certificate turns up in January, but guess what, CLARC charged fee to credit card in early November - and they claimed they hadn't got the original paperwork - my Ar$e.:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Tibbsy]

Does it seem unreasonable that CASA is charging $150 to review a medical decision?
Even if you agree with CASA's dubious argument for charging a fee every time they look at something, if they have got something wrong, shouldn't they do it for free?
I would have thought that normal princples of administrative fairness should apply i.e. people who have been adversely affected by an administrative decision should have the right to request a review without being dissuaded by doing so through the application of a finanical penalty?

[RV6]

Fullreverse Same here - when my certificate didn't arrive I rang to enquire - was told they hadn't received paperwork from the DAME. I got the DAME's secretary to fax a copy. She was over helpful and said they would have another look for the original. This led CLARC to say that as the original had not been missing long enough to be declared lost, they couldn't process my medical based on the faxed copy.
Oddly enough, my credit card was debited shortly after I did the medical. How can this be?

[Jabawocky]

Accounts get it first clearly, kaching......then it gets lost. Sux huh.

[frigatebird]

Had to get the DAME to submit details for my recent Class One twice.
Spent 1/2 an hour on the phone on one ocassion listening to a recorded message thing when trying to check on progess through the system after a months delay - so am not particularly impressed.. Got the phone bill today....
Never ever got a reply to the e-mail.

But Hey.. - am on the Aged Pension now, so have all the Time In The World.. (am glad it's only for fun now)

Read it and weep youngsters.. If you aren't prepared to stand up and be counted for a fair go, then you deserve what you will get in the future..

[Snapsimo]

I can't believe that after being so backwards about payment, ie FAX, post or Phone payment, they have cancelled the phone payment option now.
You can only pay for your medical if you post or fax it in.

No online payment:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Capt Fathom]

No online payment

So post or fax or send in with your medical!

And the downside of that is...?

[Mach E Avelli]

Tonight I am angry. Six months ago I jumped through all the hoops that old guys must jump through. Prodding, poking, bleeding, running on a treadmill etc. Aced it. Paid my 75 bucks to CASA. Never saw a new medical certificate. Never received any notification that it had been denied. So...I have been and will continue flying without it, and eagerly await some pr!ck from the Government to ping me so I can challenge them. Assholes, incompetent assholes.

[peterc005]

Took a couple of weeks for CASA to update my medical details for the latest renewal.

When I phoned someone at CASA told me they are short staffed and there is a delay in data input and processing.

A polite phone call got things updated quickly.

[PittsS2A]

I love threads like this, yes CASA are completely and utterly useless, not only when it comes to medicals, but with everything they touch, the Errol Flynn's of Government.

Sadly, as long as the joint is a Government department, things will only get worse, so enjoy the level of service you get from there now, soon things will get much worse and you might as well get the Doctor to do your next renewal 12 months early cause thats about how long it will take to process.

[nomorecatering]

CASA Avmed IT system strikes again. They lost mine as well, DAME subitted ok, but CASA cant find it.

Cant do another medical, CASA wont process anything so Im stuck.

Can we take it to the AAT?

[T28D]

Get John Maitland on the job Maitland Lawyers CollinsSt Melbourne

He is very efficient in dealing with CASA CLARC

[Mach E Avelli]

Reckon the go is to do the medical and retain a copy of the Doctor's report. I think that is your right. If CASA are going to deny reissue I think that are required under the Act (or somewhere) to advise you in writing of why they have done so. Anyway that's my argument while I continue to fly without a certificate that I paid for....
It will get interesting when I front the Doctor with no current medical to get the 60 day extension, but whose fault is that? It merely highlights a deficiency in the system.

[nomorecatering]

My issue is temporarily resolved, but was cause partly by CASA's inability to provide a stable IT system so that the DAME's can actually submit a medical report.

Now for the real scoop. Word is that in the medical community. Most of the GP's who hold DAME approvals are fed up with dealing with CASA. Apparently a huge proportion of medical reprts go missing, reject or what ever because of the unreliable CASA IT system, a huge proportion of DAME's around Australia intend not to renew their delegation. It costs them way too much time and lost buisiness dealing with CASA.

[ausdoc]

Actually, many of the GPs in the DAME community are going to have their delegations withdrawn as they have consistently failed to meet the currency requirements to be a DAME. Many of these are the same ones who do only a few medicals a year, make the most errors requiring the medical to be returned to them for correction, and don't use the electronic submission system.

There are certainly issues in the IT system, but these predominantly relate to paper mailed to CASA which has to be then scanned into the system. This happens outside of AVMED.

[Mach E Avelli]

To what extent does ICAO require the regulator to get so directly involved in routine medical renewals?
I have no trouble getting a certificate issued on another ICAO license that I hold and this is done directly by the medical examiner, valid for six months. The regulator still gets a copy of the report, but to my knowledge does not actively assess each and every renewal. Maybe they do random checks to keep the examiners honest, but whatever, it is much less hassle. Amazingly, they don't have pilots croaking at the controls there any more than anywhere else in the world.

[T28D]

Fact is they routinely lose Doctors reports, I had a heart issue some years ago, all reported to them, no requirements came forward, stopped flying for the required 6 months and then got a Cardiologist clearance.

Resumed flying, subsequently some 2years later in a non related medical report the issue of the Heart came up.

CASA through Dr Fitzgerald threatened me with prosecution for non reporting of the original heart issue, it went as far as CASA legal.

They backed off smartly when the original letter from my DAME informing them of the treatment was produced and made them look like prats. They lost the original letter !!!!!!

My advice keep copies of everythig when it has any interface with CLARC they are just the most innefective group in the FederalPublic Service.

Be ready to instruct counsel !!!!!

[Sandy Reith]

Having been through the medical mill myself, and having a PPL friend being hounded and thoroughly worked over by AVMED, none of your stories are surprising. But what can be said (I've been doing these medicals since 1965) is that AVMED, along with CASA in general, is more dysfunctional than ever.

The irony of it all is that there are no studies that give any credence to the notion that aviation medicals improve the safety of flight. As in my case the system might be helpful to the health of an individual, but not to safety.

Some proof of this is that we now have many years experience with RAAus where the level of medical has been that of a person able to drive a car. These pilots have not been falling out of the sky any more than your normal car or truck driver is suffering debilitating seizures and creating havoc on the roads.

I see one of the problems is that of pilot ego, we are so special that of course we have to prove ourselves as the super humans that we must be as we perform our aerial magic. Thus no question has really arisen as to the efficacy of the system in principle.

Until industry personnel engage their Federal MPs and demand that CASA be brought to book and that reforms be instigated, things will get worse.

[SW3]

Still playing the waiting game for Class 1 renewal... What annoys me is we pay so much tax as it is, then we have to pay a government department to do its job which should take five minutes and they can't even get it right! They forget some of us have an invested interest in that bit of paper, IE putting food on the table...

[peterc005]

The DAME's receptionist will usually give you a stamp or piece of paper for a temporary two month medical certificate until the proper one arrives.

I think the CASA clerical staff are over worked and all data processing has a back log, which is also leading to over work and mistakes.

The woman at Avmed CASA was lovely and very helpful, but the suggestion of a Business Processing overhaul above has merit.

They should give DAMEs access to the Avmed system over the internet so they can update the details on the spot for an instant medical, then automatically mail the certificate.

[Frank Arouet]

I think the CASA clerical staff are over worked and all data processing has a back log, which is also leading to over work and mistakes.


There seems to be a lot of that about.

Perhaps we should give them some more taxpayer money pete?:ugh:

[Spinner73]

The woman at Avmed CASA was lovely and very helpful


I think that's something worth remembering when we're dealing with such departments. The poor folks at the coalface are spending their days dealing with concerned, if not mildly irate, pilots who are being royally stuffed about. And while it certainly isn't our fault, it almost universally isn't the fault of the call centre operator, either. Pretty sure they'd rather not have to deal with this stuff, either.
And sure, you'll occasionally strike an "Expert in the Application of Corporal Punishment to (Smaller) Primates", but by and large the guys and gals on the magic tellingbone seem to be doing their best. The problem lays, methinks, somewhere higher up the chain. The rejigs suggested all have merit.
Thankfully, my medical (finally) turned up - but I'm still worried about what'll happen the next time, because it was clearly not an isolated incident.
The point is to remember: You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. Of course that's wrong too, because as we all know you'll catch more flies with :mad:.

Perhaps AOPA could take up the cause?

[T28D]

If an AOC holder allowed the administration of the company holding the AOC to become as bad as the CLARC administration they would be grounded.

[Old Akro]

Going back to Ausdoc's oost: Actually, many of the GPs in the DAME community are going to have their delegations withdrawn as they have consistently failed to meet the currency requirements to be a DAME. Many of these are the same ones who do only a few medicals a year, make the most errors requiring the medical to be returned to them for correction, and don't use the electronic submission system.

Really??? These GP's are the same guys who do medicals for driving licences, insurance medicals, scuba medicals, fire service medicals, CAMS (car racing) licences and I'm sure many others. Exactly how different is an Aviation Class 2 medical from any of these (and why do they need to be at all different)? Under the current regime of General Practice certification, do you really think CASA has anything to offer in terms of quality assurance or certification? The CASA requirements are lightweight by comparison. If there are endemic mistakes filling out the bureaucratic forms, then maybe its the bureaucracy that requires the review more than the doctors. I'm not a doctor, but I'd make a large bet that the average IQ of a GP is well above the average IQ of the CASA CLARC department. And CASA wants to beat them up because they can't fill out a form properly that CASA designed?

Frankly, the new relaxation of the medical requirements shows that a) its not really that important and pilots aren't really that different from other mortals and b) CASA don't actually understand the critical importance of medicals. If CASA understood this they would have incorporated an altitude differential (eg valid below 8,000ft - note 8,000 not the artificial bureaucratic 5,000ft or 10,000ft thresholds) because low oxygen partial pressure makes many other physiological issues more critical. They might also understand that its energy that causes impact damage, not mass (ie MTOW). Energy has a squared relationship with velocity and a linear relationship with speed (1/2 mv2). So, restricting the speed of aircraft for the new medicals makes more sense than restricting mass. At cruise speed, 2 seat Lancair will make a bigger hole in the suburbs than a 4 seat Auster.

[TriMedGroup]

Renewed my medical on the 2nd May, 2 months later got a letter saying the ECG did not make it to CLARC so re did ECG and faxed it to them that day. Now my 3 months is up and CLARC wont even answer the phone (our office hours are Monday to Friday, 9am to 5pm - I am calling during these hours, wankers...)

They still managed to take my payment straight away though.

[mostlytossas]

Have just done another medical. Interested to see if it comes in a timely manner this time or another debarcle like last time with two arriving the same day.:confused:

[WAC]

Medical and ASIC/license paperwork sent off same day.
Medical back inside two weeks.
Rest yet to appear at the 5 week mark....but they took the money quick smart!

[gchriste]

Got my Class 2 back in just over two weeks mid October.

[Old Akro]

Medical submitted Dec 11. Medical certificate received Jan 7. Medical dated Dec 1. Dudded out of 6 weeks of validity.

Rang to enquire about the medical on Dec 23. Was told it was waiting payment. The funny thing is that I watched the DAME fax my signed credit card authorisation to CASA on Dec 11.

It took several phonecalls and emails to get the certificate. Each time I was told there was no problem with my medical and it was ready to mail. Each time was a different excuse with a new promise. Each time the promise was broken. This was for a class 1 medical. Lucky I don't depend on my CPL for a living!

My ASIC has fallen due at the same time as the medical. For some idiotic reason I decided to do a class 1 medical instead of the class 2 I've done for the last 1 or 2 renewals and in the meantime I've crossed one of the age thresholds for additional tests. I reckon the combined exercise has pretty much burnt $1k.

[mustafagander]

Believe it or not I have a good report concerning my last medical!!

Paperwork received at CASA office in CBR 1715 18th December as the receipt forwarded to me said. I checked on Friday 20th late in the day to ensure all paperwork required was there and assured that, yes we have it all.

Lo and behold, in my letterbox on Thursday 2nd January is my new medical certificate. When I saw the letter I assumed some problem - suspicious old bugger that I am! This means that the certificate was posted by lunchtime 24th December, a damned quick turnaround - likely a record. :D

[Aussie Bob]

I have never had a problem. My policy is to make the appointment with the DAME as close to the expiry of my medical as possible. Then I make sure I get the three month DAME renewal stamp and forget about it. Its always appeared before the extension runs out.

[Nomde plume]

Aussie Bob, what happens if your DAME wants further testing and won't re validate your medical until such is done? I'm pretty sure there is like a 30 day grace period where your expiry date doesn't change.

[Old Akro]

I'm pretty sure there is like a 30 day grace period where your expiry date doesn't change.

I think its 28 days. But it only applies for a renewal of the same grade. I went back up to Class 1 from Class 2, so the extension is not valid.

[Old Akro]

I should add that I've never had a problem either in 40 years. But this year was a nightmare of bureaucratic indifference.

[no_one]

What I don't understand is why the system can't be like the faa one. Fill out the online form. You go to the doctor. They check you out and if all good then they print put the form and sign it and you walk out the door with medical in hand....

[pcx]

DAME can revalidate your existing certificate for 2 months.
Can also revalidate your class 2 certificate for 2 months even if you have completed the requirements for issue of a class 1. After all this is still just revalidating your existing certificate.
All provided he/she believes you meet the requirements of course.

[Aussie Bob]

Opps, I stand corrected on the extension time and although I have never had a problem, the mindless hassles I see others, particularly students who are taking some minor medication go through is depressing. I agree, the system is broke.

One student in particular spent thousands including several trips to a specialist in a distant city just to prove what his DAME had said all along. Someone less persistent or financial would have given up.

[HshiftOne]

It took me just over 3 months and 4 phone calls + emails to get my Class 2 early last year. :ugh:

[jbr76]

Two weeks from visit to DAME to receipt of medical in the letterbox for a Class 2. (This was prior to Christmas)

Acceptable turnaround time I think?

[Spinner73]

If the :mad: are true, :mad:, then :mad: 'Being an Accessory to Conspiracy to Commit Aviation'.
This is :mad:.
Quite a :mad:!


(:mad:...)

[Spinner73]

Good point!

[Jerr]

Lucky me, slight problem with my medical. My DAME said not a problem when I renewed back in October. My DAME complimenting me on my weight loss, reduction in Cholesterol, renewed my medical with the 2 month limitation.

Just before Christmas I got a letter from AVMED requesting more information on my health.

Got said information...sent to AVMED. Called several times, went to voicemail. Sent an email Dec 23rd, got the following reply...

Thank you, your email has been received on behalf of Avmed by the Permissions Applications Centre (PAC).
If you sent in an enquiry, this will now be actioned by a member of the PAC Team as soon as possible, and you can expect a response within 10 working days.
In the meantime you might be able to find out what you were looking for on our website www.casa.gov.au/avmed (http://www.casa.gov.au/avmed)
If you sent in a report, this will be scanned ASAP on to the Medical records system for consideration by AvMed.
You can call Avmed by calling 1300 4 AVMED (1300 428 633) during business hours.
For any further enquiry, please remember to include:
- Your ARN
- Your full name
This message has been delivered to you via an automated process.
Regards,
Avmed

Now Jan 15th, and still have not heard anything. Of course I no longer have a medical, cannot fly:{. As Old Akro said, luckily I also do not reply on my medical for my income.

IS 10 working days too long to reply to an email??? Most of my clients/students expect instant replies...

Is AVMED in the real world? I assume they are with the way the fee they charge for the review of the medical and the way they quickly deducted their fee from my credit card. But with the way they seemingly have no customer service, it makes me wonder?:ugh:

Grounded JERR

[training wheels]

I did my class 1 renewal in Singapore (of all places, and yes there is a CASA DAME there) just before Christmas. Paper work was submitted by snail mail to Canberra, and had the medical certificate arrive in my mailbox one week after New Year. No dramas. Sorry to say, but I've never had a problem dealing with CASA with regards to medicals. If you use their online portal, you can keep track of your service requests with them.

[Capt Fathom]

Seems to be good luck rather than good management when it comes back promptly.

Most of the CASA doctors are part time, and only there a couple of days a week. So if they request further information after your medical, it can take some time for them to review it.

Last time I called them to follow up on some info I had sent, I was told they had 28 business days to respond to correspondence! Gee thanks!

You can do your medical up to 28 days before the expiry date, which I do. That gives me 28 days + 2 months to get it sorted. (Assuming your DAME doesn't ground you on the spot.:uhoh:)

Last one took 10 weeks. Appalling service.

[Creampuff]

This is what happens when the regulator is left to run the process that determines the regulator’s own regulatory role. It gives itself a monopoly on the issue of medical certificates and then you have no choice but to pay them to stuff you around. :D

[Aussie Bob]

This is what happens when the regulator is left to run the process that determines the regulator’s own regulatory role.

This is also what happens when you get doctors who can't stand patients so they seek employment where they see none. Then they make decisions that the doctor who sees the patient isn't trusted with.