QR A320 Captain's roster

[Che Xindamail]

For those contemplating joining QR, here is an actual roster for A320 Captain.The month and specific destinations have been omitted to protect the innocent. All times are based on DOHA which is where your body clock will be.

Day 1. day off at out station in Europe.
Day 2. wake-up-call 2150 to fly back to Doha.
Day 3. Land DOH 0535, report again 2245 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd).
Day 4. Land DOH 0645, report again 0000 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd).
Day 5. Land DOH 0555, report again 1945 for Gulf turn-around ARR DOH 0000.
Day 6. report 1800 regional turn-around
Day 7. Land DOH 0015, report again 1345 for three-sectors (Gulf + layover),
Day 8. land at outstation 0120 (layover), wake-up-call 1500, land DOH 2230
Day 9. off
Day 10. off
Day 11. report 0650, four-sectors around the Gulf, land DOH 1700.
Day 12. report 2245 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd)
Day 13. land DOH 0645, report again 2345, two sectors for layover.
Day 14. land at outstation 0830 (layover)
Day 15. wake-up-call 0855, two sectors, land DOH 1910
Day 16. off
Day 17. report 2345, regional turn-around
Day 18. land DOH 0545, report again 1925, one sector for layover
Day 19. land at outstation 0055 (layover), wake-up-call 2300
Day 20. operate back to DOH followed by a Gulf turn-around, land DOH 1050
Day 21. off
Day 22. off
Day 23. ground school (ex. crm, security, dangerous goods)
Day 24. report 1045 Gulf turn-around plus regional turn-around, land DOH 2230.
Day 25. off
Day 26. off
Day 27. report 0700 one sector to Europe for 22h layover.
Day 28. wake-up-call 1030 fly to DOH plus Gulf turn-around, land DOH 2320.
Day 29. report 1230 one sector to Europe for 24h layover.
Day 30. wake-up-call 2200 to fly to Doha
Day 31. land DOH 0530.

This roster has the minimum eight days off, of which seven are at home and one is in a hotel (Day 1). 92 block hours and 160 duty hours (= salary QAR42,500). Generally it is unusual to get days off at outstation.

You will often get a 10-12 day pattern with a combination of day and night flying with the one legal day off in the middle. Rest of the month will obviously be better.

QR operates strictly according to legality. No regard is taken for family issues, fatigue-issues or the flight safety implications fatigue has. You will be tired beyond your imagination, but you will get a decent meal at 3am if you wish.

By the way, management cancelled one week’s leave for all A320 pilots this winter.

[Punchespilot]

Good Post Che Xindamail



This is also a First officers roster .


You know the saying things can only get better ? ... Possibly

Without a doubt family life suffers , Your are irritated easily when tired, Sleeping patterns messed up. Its not usual to have difficulty sleeping during the night and fall off maybe 5-6am....

[busav8r]

Day 1. day off at out station in Europe.
Day 2. wake-up-call 2150 to fly back to Doha.
Day 3. Land DOH 0535, report again 2245 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd).
Day 4. Land DOH 0645, report again 0000 for Gulf turn-around (3h on gnd).
Day 5. Land DOH 0555, report again 1945 for Gulf turn-around ARR DOH 0000.
Day 6. report 1800 regional turn-around
Day 7. Land DOH 0015, report again 1345 for three-sectors (Gulf + layover),
Day 8. land at outstation 0120 (layover), wake-up-call 1500, land DOH 2230
...

:eek: :eek:

I must confess I never saw anything like this. That is almost insane... and I would say... dangerous.

92 hrs block and 160 duty??? And you only get paid for the bock time??? :ooh:

Che Xindamail, is this kind of rooster very common?

[Count von Altibar]

If that's a typical A320 Captain roster at QR then I think I'd rather look for a new career. Looks an absolute nightmare on paper, there must be quite a bit of sickness at QR with guys who just can't take anymore. Perhaps the annual leave is fairly generous though, allowing pilots a bit of respite?

[Solum Sanctus]

HAHA!! i left QR 2 years ago, i spend 3 years in that fleet i can see it hasn't change at all :D

[parahawk]

where are you now? How was it to leave? can you describe the process? How did you arrange another job? I am sure with a schedule like the ones people are posting it would be hard to make it to an interview.

[White none please]

Jesus, thats horrendous.... it makes Ryanair look good! Surely they cannot expect to keep people , with a routine like that?

[White Knight]

Well, I did post something about Goat Airways some 3 years ago - and had the Goat guys jumping all over me:rolleyes::rolleyes:........

......but the truth is simple! Come to EK:cool::cool: Some of my girly colleagues will moan about a 2 sector turn to India in the AM; after two days off, but all in all seems a lot better than you guys and gals at 'The Goat':}:}

[Paper Lad]

I can confirm that the above roster is fairly typical for a 320 Capt, if anything block hours are higher, getting toward 100 hrs p/month, with min rest a regular occurrence.

I would also agree with the sentiments at the end of the post.

Crewing levels at the moment are in a desperate state, with many roster changes to try and keep the operation running.....and more new aeroplanes still arriving!

PL.

[ZP1]

The pattern is about right, the number of Europe flights indicate a new joiner enjoying what might be called foreplay .

[Iver]

If there is a positive for some people, I was told in another thread that 787 pilots will be largely sourced from the A320 fleet (after the initial cadre of 777 pilots who join that fleet for the first 3-4 birds). :D So, from flying exhausting regional routes to perhaps more civilised longhaul on the 787. Then again, the 787s could be deployed on regional routes and you get the same schedule... :ugh::sad::{

Are the other fleets worked as hard as the A320 fleet? I read that the 777 flying is exhausting and "hard work" as well. What about the A330 fleet? Will you just be exhausted and pi$$ed off regardless of fleet at "the Goat?"

[Che Xindamail]

Someone asked if this is common. Yes, days 1-8 as depicted in my roster is a common block. You will do a week like this almost every month. You will do the legal seven days, often followed by a single day off, then another five day block, which could be more of the same, or better.

Count von A, on paper we get 6 weeks leave/yr, but all A320 pilots had one week canceled for this leave period (Oct-Mar). The B777 pilots had two weeks canceled.

Pay is based on block hours as mentioned, so the sitting around for three hours 2-5am somewhere in the Gulf is free of charge.

No foreplay in this roster, although admittedly three European layovers is unusual. Replace Europe with Africa or South Asia, the impact on your health will be the same.

I have three years as Captain with QR on A320, hoping for a fleet change. Will work for sleep.

[Paper Lad]

a 320 Capt getting a fleet trans.........??? and pigs might fly :{

Good luck anyway.

Current rumour: There will not be any 320 pilots moved to the 787, when they begin arriving, due to the acute shortage of crew on the fleet.

PL

[tdk90]

Has anyone ever got a widebody as a new hire?

[AD-4]

That roster can’t be true. Didn’t the guy from Flight Safety, you know, the one who did the ‘fatigue’ speech when we joined, tell us all that these rosters no longer exist?

[safelife]

tdk90: yes, experienced A320 FO got A330, experienced B737NG FO got B777.

As a general rule nowadays people with wide body experience are likely to get onto wide body fleets, all others will go A320 unless very lucky.

Fleet transfers are slower than upgrades, I'm aware of people serving close to 5 years on A320 without fleet transfer ahead (and still alive!).

For B787 no experience exists what they might do, I reckon it will me a mix of external crews with suitable experience (B737NG or wide body) and internal transfers. But transfer from A320 and B777 will be limited as crews are really needed there. Maybe some A330 chaps as their flying reduces.

[Solum Sanctus]

HAHA!!! hey che keep dreaming all the guys that join with me 5 years ago, they still on the 320 :(

[gdukkoq]

In QR you are offered a fleet transfert after 3 years, and this has been true for all my friends working there. Now they also got offered left seat upgrade, so this might be the reason why some guys stay longer on the 320.

[kotakota]

OMG , that is horrendous , the telling part is the addendum saying that it is all legal . Safety is not considered anymore by most airlines . I thought my roster in Muscat was bad , and which caused me to leave as it was obviously only going to get worse due shortage of crew , but this one is unbelievable . When someone piles one in , there will be much nodding and shaking of heads while spouting the inevitable ' But it is legal Captain '.
It's time the Doctors got involved .

[Iver]

I am sure plenty of Kingfisher pilots would be interested regardless of the exhausting schedule... QR management probably know that. :ugh::mad::yuk:

[Mr Angry from Purley]

**** thats the hardest roster i've ever seen and i've built quiet a few in the last 30 years.Its asking for a fatigue related incident:\

[Che Xindamail]

QR do not give priority to fatigue related safety issues.

It is an issue that is completely and thoroughly brushed under the carpet. Our Flight Safety Department do their best within their jurisdiction, which is related to Stabilized Approaches, long landings etc. The usual things, at which they are quite good, but they have no say on rostering.

You will get called into the Safety office if you are Vapp+15 at 1000ft AGL, but the fact that you have just done three sectors after reporting at midnight Doha time (yes, it happens) is completely ignored because you were legal within 5 mins.

Someone asked about the A330 and B777. The flying time calculation for B777 has recently been changed (because of crew shortage...), so from having done max 100hrs a month, they are now doing 130 (no joke) since only time spent in the seat counts towards the flying time total. They do however get paid for the full amount.

[Iver]

130 hours of flight time per month in the 777? :eek::mad::ugh::sad::yuk::yuk::yuk:

How do they keep any pilots who have paid off their training bond? Why would they risk losing experienced 777 pilots (Capt and FOs) - especially if EK start recruiting from QR in the future to staff their growing fleets...

[AD-4]

Che, it sounds like the safety department has their priorities right? Plus 15 at 1000ft is just sooooo much more dangerous than work-to-death rosters and the associated fatigue.
Management obviously has the office well under control. Silly me, I thought safety was supposed to be independent and their jurisdiction to include fatigue matters? :confused:
Do we still have those new-joiner days? I'd like to hear what the story on fatigue is and what the safety office is doing about it now?

[Flyingstig]

A room full of new -joiners, who have endured the months and months of waiting, as demonstrated in these page, is an ideal venue.

This is a perfect oppoprtunity to raise and discuss such a controversial subject.
The participants will bring a fresh perspective. The QR safety dept and management will undoubtedly welcome this contribution from their newest, so far untrained, PROBATIONERS,.
No doubt, once they have straightened this business out, they will move onto the luxury accommodation that they will be providing for these people.

YUP! That would really work.;)

[Che Xindamail]

Here is another actual roster.
Again, all times are based on DOHA which is where your body clock will be.

Day 1. off
Day 2. report 0630, Gulf turn-around, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 3. report 0035, one sector for layover in India, land at 0615.
Day 4. wake-up-call 0400, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 5. report 0035, one sector for layover in India, land at 0615.
Day 6. wake-up-call 0400, land DOH 1130, followed by min-rest.
Day 7. report 0040 for regional turn-around, land DOH 0610.
Day 8. off
Day 9. report 1515 for three-sectors, Gulf turn-around, followed by layover India.
Day 10. land at outstation 0130 (layover), wake-up-call 2330.
Day 11. land DOH 0620. followed by 17hrs 25min rest.
Day 12. report 0015, regional turn-around, land DOH 0620.
Day 13. report 1115, regional turn-around, land DOH1940.
Day 14. off
Day 15. off

They actually gave me duty on my day off on day 14 (without asking), but I reported sick for that day.

You will get a pattern like this almost every month.

[safelife]

Thanks for posting those. These rosters speak for themselves.
To me they basically say, stay well clear.

Just I also learned that widebody FO may upgrade on widebody aircraft, which lessens the probability of anyone greeting a fleet transfer off A320.

[POL.777]

Looks like a hardcore roster on the A320. Are you just unlucky with your bids or is this the reality of flying for QR on the narrowbody fleet? A month like this, OK, but if this is the norm it requires a very disciplined lifestyle and a VERY understanding wife.
Are you required to get to the airport yourself, or will QR schedule a crew pickup at your home?

[freddi16]

what about the other 15 days???

[flyforfood1]

No, you have to get to the airport yourself....and then find a parking space. :ugh:

[Iver]

Che,

Thanks for the new roster - very interesting. :ugh: I guess if you are an Indian pilot (from ailing Kingfisher or others like Indigo), flying the A320 for QR wouldn't be too bad because you would actually spend a lot of time in your home country... Although you would be exhausted in your home country. :}:yuk:

I am betting that many A320 pilots are praying that 787 slots open up as the new birds arrive...

[Check Airman]

Am I the only one who thinks these rosters look more like a freight operation? Sleep during the day and fly at night?

Are these really typical schedules, or is this what the bottom 10% of A320 pilots have to endure?

[Che Xindamail]

Gents, I forgot to mention that I had leave after this pattern, hence only the 15 days. I would say that this is as bad as it gets, certainly before leave they will maximize your flying.

There are months that are quite ok, you will always have a certain amount of night flying, since that is what the QR schedule is like. Normally they will roster you for a max of three nights in a row. But where do you draw the line? Waking up at 0400 is night for me, but doesn't count as such since the flight is daytime.

The bidding system works to a certain degree, so your roster will be a combination of nights and fulfilled bids. The layovers are usually quite good and 24h.

If you bid for early report time, you will do early flights, but often 4-sectors around the Gulf. Most guys don't like these patterns since you work hard but the flying pay is low. It also gets incredibly hot on board in the summer time. But it's your choice.

[maddog37]

Are you telling us that those are rosters of a guy who was leaving?? So it is not a normal one, isn´t it??
And just for info, every company, it doesn´t matter wherever it is, as soon as you give your notice period, they will squeeze you!! It hapenned to me several times...
Anyway, thanks for the info

[Che Xindamail]

I had two weeks annual leave, holiday, vacation.
Not 'leaving'.

[maddog37]

My mistake:ugh:

[Solum Sanctus]

For the 320 guys in Qatar airways

Participate! | Flightdutytimes (http://flightdutytimes.eu/petition/) :ok: