Would you?

[Roff]

RVR 750 - BKN 200 feet
would you take off?

[hobbit1983]

It depends......

[Jan Olieslagers]

Depends very much, indeed.
And some milk to my tee, if yer daugnt maynd.

[Grassfield]

Solid overcast all the way to FL200 or a 300ft thick layer of stratus? Similar weather on a 100nm radius or just the nearest 2nm? Multi engine-single engine? Piston or turbine? Equipment/instrumentation of aircraft? Experience of pilot?

Yes indeed, it depends...

[thing]

I thought this was going to be about Penelope Cruz...:{

[Russell Gulch]

I would if I could at you age, old boy!

Roff
Profile:
Age: 92

[Genghis the Engineer]

I have an IMC not an IR, that is outside my personal limits on RVR, plus the line between BKN and OVC in my experience is very small so it's as likely as not to be outside of my ceiling limits. So no.

If it was more marginal, then nonetheless there's an old adage that is always worth remembering:

"If there's doubt, there's no doubt".

and another reliable adage:

"Landing is mandatory, but take-off is optional".

So still no.

G

[Roff]

Cheers G
I was happy with it as i knew i could be ontop by 1000ft and my
destination was VFR but i knew a few people who didn't fancy it.
Just wanted a general feel from the Ppruners :ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

An engine problem at 800 ft would have been fun !

G

[Roff]

As ever.......

[rata2e]

"I have an IMC not an IR, that is outside my
personal limits on RVR, plus the line between
BKN and OVC in my experience is very small so
it's as likely as not to be outside of my ceiling
limits."

Wanna check your definitions too G?

[Contacttower]

Would you have been able to return to the airport in those conditions?

I'm guessing only the presence of an ILS or another airport nearby that had better weather would have allowed for a return if one had a problem after take off.

If for some reason my usual policy of not placing myself under pressure to depart for a particular reason had failed, and I really needed to leave then yes I would depart. Obviously one could have an engine failure in the soup but there is nothing from an instrument flying point of view that makes that take off impossible.

[Genghis the Engineer]

"I have an IMC not an IR, that is outside my
personal limits on RVR, plus the line between
BKN and OVC in my experience is very small so
it's as likely as not to be outside of my ceiling
limits."

Wanna check your definitions too G?

Realising that what I meant, but didn't say, was 'for a return to the field'. I've done that enough times over the years to consider the ability essential.

G

[peterh337]

Sure you won't be able to land back (unless there is an ILS) but that is a risk no different to other risks in aircraft operation.

If you are expecting a fire in the cockpit at any moment after departure, then I would agree that being able to land back at the airport of departure is fairly important...

The higher altitude wx (icing conditions, etc) is obviously most relevant to whether one should go or not, but one doesn't need a 200ft overcast scenario for that to be relevant.

[S-Works]

I assume a light GA aircraft I assume you had a fully coupled autopilot or were just accepting that you would be unable to return to the departure airport as it was below minima?

[Genghis the Engineer]

I assume a light GA aircraft I assume you had a fully coupled autopilot or were just accepting that you would be unable to return to the departure airport as it was below minima?

The last.

I've had enough things crop up, including a few engine issues, within the first 1-2 minutes after take-off over the years that I value the ability to circuit and land back and would not willingly get airborne if that option's not available to me.

There's always some exceptional set of circumstances you can think up, but not very often.

And as this was in the private flying page, yes, I was assuming a light single. I can't, myself, see that an A/P makes any difference to the decision.

G

[S-Works]

RVR old chap... Whats the RVR requirements for your flight using your IMCr? 1800m..... You may not take off or land if the viz is less than 1800m......

The requirements for an IR holder are that for SPA the RVR has to be 800m or greater. That restriction may be removed if you are fitted with a fully coupled auto pilot in which case for an IR holder it then becomes the plate minima or the AP minima whichever is greater.....

[Genghis the Engineer]

So, the answer is still no!

The question was 'would you?'. I wouldn't, and I'd argue that even if technology and ratings make it just about legal, most other pilots shouldn't either in an SEP. The margins are just too small.

G

[JW411]

Bose X:

There is a slight difference between RVR and Visibility but then I am sure you know that already.

[S-Works]

Yes I do. I also know full well how to calculate them. I was however trying to keep it simple....

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Working day, no problem the aircraft is equipped for it, and so are the P2 and I; days off-no chance, too much like hard work:=

[JW411]

Back in 1974 I did my IR at Kidlington prior to me perhaps having a successful career in civil aviation. I was flying the Short Belfast at Brize Norton at the time but I was also CFI of an RAFGSA Gliding Club and had an interest in an RF-3. I was also flying Cessna 206 and BN Islander for the jumping beans.

I think that might just give me the qualifications for giving a balanced view.

One day I flew the Cessna 206 from Weston on the Green to Kidlington to refuel. I did not get above 400 feet on the short hop.

At the pumps I met a chap filling up his Cessna 172.

"Hello mate" said I "where are you headed"?

"Leeds/Bradford" said he.

"Do you know that the cloud base here is 500 feet - God knows what it is at LBA".

"Ah" said he "but I have an IR".

"So do I" said I "but it so far has not showed me how to pick a field when the engine stops and the cloud base is less than 800 feet".

Some people think that an IR prevents them from having an engine failure.

I have a friend who is a stone mason.

[Romeo Tango]

It's quite a good risk.

I fly a certificated, well maintained aircraft powered by an single agricultural Lycoming. I've had it for over 30 years and some thousands of hours. I've flown it to several continents, and across various oceans.

I can't say it's never given trouble in flight but it's never failed to get me to an airfield.

The fraction of time I fly it at night or in hard IFR is quite small. I don't seek out these conditions but if they turn up I just go.

The aircraft doesn't know it shouldn't fail today more than any other. It's unlikely it will fail on any day, it's VERY unlikely to choose a bad day since there are not that many really bad days.

Bill

[peterh337]

As with so much in life it is a case of picking one's battles and picking one's risks.

I am happy to fly over the Alps above a solid overcast, but the exposure is only about 30-45 mins and happens barely a few times per year, and is less than 1% of my airborne time.

The risk is further improved by the fact that one is flying at a very low power setting (a non turbo engine) so the stress on everything is a lot lower than during any preceeding climb and lower altitude flight.

And maintenance needs to be done on a money-no-object basis, with a zero tolerance for defects. If the engine as much as coughed on a flight, I would have the fuel system inspected and would probably replace the fuel servo as a precaution, before further flight. This is why I do not fly other aircraft.

But if I was doing flying which has no decent escape route all day every day then I would probably take a 737 :)

Same with flying at night. I do it but only here and there. Night time is just 1.5% of my day time. Night flight is the most worrying for me because there really is no escape route - short of wearing NVGs :)

The problem with a piston twin is that one pays heavily on the hourly operating cost for the spare motor, and the only "modern" option - a DA42 - has a couple of engines which are thoroughly proven to be dodgy. Practically everybody I know who has a DA42 has had so many problems with it that I simply wouldn't do the long trips I do.

[VMC-on-top]

"So do I" said I "but it so far has not showed me how to pick a field when the engine stops and the cloud base is less than 800 feet"

Or, if you had a Cirrus, pull the chute!