.... and Spain is in debt ?

[djfwells]

€250 mln in subsidies paid to 15 airlines in 5 years (http://www.tumbit.com/news/articles/4766-250-mln-in-subsidies-paid-to-15-airlines-in-5-years.html)

[LGS6753]

Just goes to show what happens when socialists are let loose in Treasuries.

[TSR2]

On the other hand, look where they would be now if they had just sat back and allowed tourism to collapse.

Investment or foolish handouts ???

[Aero Mad]

Foolish handouts.

[munster]

it's much less than the UK gives to india ANNUALLY!

[TSR2]

British tourists alone spent over 10 Billion Euros in Spain last year.

Source: Simply Networking.

[jabird]

Ryanair received an average of 60 cents per person for their 34.7 million passengers carried in 2011, whilst Air Nostrum received and average of €3 per person for the 8 million passengers they carried in the same period.

Well 60c is diddly squat, Spanish APD (eqv) is still around £5, so it is the usual case of govts giving with one hand and taking with the other :D:D:D

I don't think this is the biggest problem with Spanish aviation either. If these routes are bringing people in to spend money, there is an argument to interfere with the market.

On the other hand, building white elephant airports that research should have shown before hand were just going to lay empty, is a different story.

[paully]

Foolish or not surely you would think the subsidies must surely now cease, although they may well argue that they are a necessity to keep the tourist trade alive, which after agriculture, is their biggest earner and they cant afford to lose. Their largest car rental company AurigaCrown has just collapsed.

All will depend on how the moneymarkets and the Gauleiters in Brussels view it in the months to come...No doubt they will be getting some more wise words from Mr O`Leary in due course :ugh:

Interesting times

[captplaystation]

paully,

Just did a google search & can't find anything about Auriga, where did you read that ?

[BigFrank]

The local press report that the main reason Spanair collapsed when it did about 10 days ago was because the attempts to involve Qatar Airways in it foundered because Qatar feared that Brussels would make them pay back multi million pound financing from the Catalan government.

Incidentally, Spanair don't get a mention in the original article cited. Which does make the figures very suspect indeed. As being far far too low if they are only for money from "Madrid."

Why does nobody in Brussels appear to pay a blind bit of notice to the total of 100m € subsidy to Ryanair mentioned in this article ?

¿ Time to wake up in Belgium ?

[pee]

@BigFrank

¿ Which airline with how many flights per week would serve your home town without the plug that you wish to be pulled off ?

(couldn't resist to use your language sign, that means to me: can I ask what I'll be asking?) ;)

[paully]

Capt Playstation

Had an email from the car brokers `DoYouSpain` to this effect and found the details on the `eyeonspain` website as well as a thread on Manilva Life (http://www.manilvalife.com) under general info on the forum..

Apparantly, unlike here, clsoures are handled slowly over a period of time but they are closing at the end of this month so I`m led to beleive. They have no cars available at La Linea or Malaga after this time.

Cheers

[potash]

Not long ago Spanish tourist resorts were on a big winner charging airlines a nice wedge in landing fees and at the same time the airlines were bringing in the main source of income ie tourists. then a long came Mol who said hang on your charging me to land my planes and we are bringing you your main source of income. i will charge you so much per passenger from now on.And for all island destinations like the canary's they are finished without flights and the airlines know it.Pay per Passenger in one form or another is hear to stay.

[Ernest Lanc's]

Jabird

Almost half of all Spanish airline subsides paid over the last 5 years have been made to Ryanair, who recieved just over €100 million of the €250 million total paid out.


Hardly "diddly squat"

I am not a socialist at all..But with Spain relying on tourism, I think these payments where a shrewd Investment.
@Big Frank..Pity the UK firm did not put up 2 fingers at Brussels..

I am going to Spain twice this year and like the majority of Brits don't care about subsidies of it helps flight to heep taking us there.

[take-off]

You're going to spin twice? No wonder you'll end up in a "heep!" :ooh:

[Ernest Lanc's]

OK - Thank's take-off..Google automatic spell check, has a mind of it's own. Edited my post

[pudoc]

I heard that the Canarian government gives Ryanair anywhere between 50-100% refunds on taxes in order to keep them in the Canaries.

Shame that tax refund isn't passed onto us. Not sure how true that is but it wouldn't surprise me.

[racedo]

Not long ago Spanish tourist resorts were on a big winner charging airlines a nice wedge in landing fees and at the same time the airlines were bringing in the main source of income ie tourists. then a long came Mol who said hang on your charging me to land my planes and we are bringing you your main source of income. i will charge you so much per passenger from now on.And for all island destinations like the canary's they are finished without flights and the airlines know it.Pay per Passenger in one form or another is hear to stay.

Well IF the figures are to be believed the £100m and the 60 cents per passenger i work out as FR delivering 165 Million people in 5 years which is not the case yet but will be over next 4/5.

So 165Million SLF with an assumed spend of circa €300 on accommodation / car hire etc per person gives you a €50 Billion over 5 years with it all being spent in the country and on services / local jobs.

Spanish return is for every 60 cent it spends and given Spanish VAT is 8% then even if tourist only spends €10 on a meal the state is ahead.

How much would Spain offer in grants to an industrial company to come in and set up offering 2000 jobs in a poor region ?

Which deal is better ?

[BigFrank]

@pee

Have I got this right. Are you claiming there were no flights to either airport until Ryanair arrived ???

¿ And are you also claiming that MOL single-handedly built both airports, acting as navvy, as ganger and as architect and pouring all the re-inforced concrete himself ?

That would be a first. A boy from Clongowes Wood doing a hand's turn on a building site. Still less building two multi million pound installations single handedly.

[racedo]

Have I got this right. Are you claiming there were no flights to either airport until Ryanair arrived

In Dec-Feb 1995-2003 how many passengers were using Girona ..............rough estimate to the nearest 10,000..............

[Oldtimer1]

Spanish return is for every 60 cent it spends and given Spanish VAT is 8% then even if tourist only spends €10 on a meal the state is ahead.

Spanish VAT is 18% so that tourist would only have to spend €3.35 to recover the amount paid to the airline.

Thats what a drink in a bar (Not even mentioning the alcohol duty). Spain would even earn money on someone buying a McDs. Money well spent I think.

[racedo]

Old Timer

Correct but there are different VAT rates and 8% is the food one, 18% is prob alcohol one but not an expert in Spanish VAT.

[djfwells]

I'm by no means knowledgeable on these matters, but it makes mem wonder why the region of Catalonia has spent 80 million euros over the last 5 years on budget airline subsidies (and have committed to paying Ryanair alone 40 mln over the next 5 years). All an effort to get Tourists to come to the region. AND THEN they introduce a "Tourist Tax" to save money ? - Why subsidise one party, but penalise the other ? why not just reduce or abolish the subsidy to save money that way ?
Catalan tourist tax delayed (http://www.tumbit.com/news/articles/4779-catalan-tourist-tax-delayed.html)

[Sunnyjohn]

It may be to do with where the money comes from. Despite its desperation to become a country (it is an autonomous community), Cataluna receives specific grants from central government as well as from the EU. The issue of where the money has come from is therefore likely to be fairly complex.