FAA licenses?

[zlocko2002]

Hello my fellow rotorheads, I need advice regarding FAA licenses.

I am military pilot (1900h total, 180h IFR, 250night, mostly Mi-8/17, SAR, CSAR, external cargo, firefighting, mountain, instructor/examiner, maintenance test pilot), thinking about civil carrier.

Due to crazy situation in my country (actually crazy CAA) I can't get any licenses. We accepted JAR and will switch to EASA, but that blocked all helicopter operations...we are too small to have FTO and we don't even have any commercial helicopter operator.
Our CAA thinks that only reason of their existence is Croatia Airlines.
(in their brilliance they signed every single paper EASA put in front of them, and now due to fine print Croatian airplane licenses are actually national license becuse we are not full member of EU :ugh: )

I managed to get my military hours in civil logbook and got ICAO CPL(H) with type rating for Schweizer300, which expired but I can renew it and convert it to JAR. I also have ICAO ATPL(A)+IR theory, and did conversion course for JAR ATPL.

I guess it is possible to convert JAR CPL(H) to FAA...

What is bothering me is IR, from what I reed in FAR it seems that my military IFR hours might count for 40h of IFR for license and that i need maybe only 15h of training?
(I tried that for JAR IFR ME, but ended up that I have to do all 55h (we don't have any FTO so I would need to do it abroad, so nothing cam be transferred from military), which cost that much that there is no economical sense to leave military and go to civil flying)

From what I have seen that is currently only option for me. I don't have money to get JAR IR...

Thanks for all inputs.
Fly safe

[hueyracer]

A simple "conversion" from any licence to the FAA-licence is not possible-you will always (only) end up with a FAA PPL(H), and then have to show proof of completion of the necessary hours for CPL(H), ATPL(H) and/or IR (IR only necessary if you´re going for the ATPL).

What i would recommend:

Fill out the form for conversion of your CPL(H) into the FAA PPL(H) (although it is not necessary, but at least it gives you another licence).

Then go to the US (you HAVE to take the exam there..), and find yourself a small flight school that guides you through the conversion process.
Check if you fulfill the requirements:
CFR 14+49 FAR/AIM text section 61.151 though 61.169 with special emphasis on 61.161.

FAA Regulations (http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/faa_regulations/)

At least you´ll have to do two checkrides (it is possible to do the IR in a Schweizer...don´t know about the ATPL-checkride)...

[Peter PanPan]

Zlocko, try to PM fellow Ppruner MarkerInbound, he's a wealth of knowledge when it comes to FARs. Good luck to you:ok:

[heli7]

Then go to the US (you HAVE to take the exam there..)

FAA Test (http://www.n-flight.com/FAA_Test/faa_test.htm)

You can do your FAA PPL and CPL here in UK written and flight test.
I'm an helicopter FAA CFI PM me if you need any more details.

H7

[MartinCh]

You can sit FAA writtens at certain schools that are LaserGrade (or rather, PSI now) or CATS. It's usually at certain premium outside USA. Up until about year ago, it was less, now 150 bucks in the US.
I can't tell you'd fulfill all requirements for FAA ATP regarding FAA crosscountry.
You do look like you'd only need the minimum training/flight review after validation for PPL(H). It's usually 3hrs preceding 2 months before checkride/flight test.
I don't see a point trying to do FAA ATP if you only need CPL


Those have to be with FAA CFI, other training will be credited, as long as the requirements as to the kind of time is met.
Also, initial FAA licence and instrument, you'll technically have to pay 130 bucks each, for TSA 'clearance'.

Doing flight tests in UK or France is possible with freelance DPE, but the fees are hefty and you'd have to be sure you got all paperwork correct.
Plenty info if you search, look at e-cfr.gpoaccess.gov as linked already. part 61.129 has the flight experience requirements for CPL and then you search the exact one for instruemnt rating. It's mainly straight line distance XC, total distance, daytime, night time, etc.

I'm still not getting your situation. Your heli CPL is Croatian or from other country. Why don't you get it renewed and converted to JAA compliant one?
I can't tell about other countries, or their CAAs, but there's this 'change of licence issue state' possibility, but usually tied to proving that you have lived somewhere past 6 months or so, or majority of year. That way, if you could, IF, swapping to other (EU) country and then have EASA licence once it's rolled over from JAR.

You've got a point regarding the IR training/conversion. But you also have reasonable credits for having IR(A), though not as good as ICAO IR(H).

Wish I had your hours and MI-17 time. That'd be handy for some places/countries.

[zlocko2002]

Thank you all for such quick reply,
it seems that it is easier than I even thought.

Regarding my situation, we use to have Ministry of Sea, Transport and Infrastructure regulating our licenses.
It was a nightmare, when military pilot cams to get his hours from military log book transfered to civil one they would refuse, every time with different crazy explanation: we dont have Mi-17 in civil registry, no MiG-21 in registry, it is not regulated with Air Force, the person who needs to do that is somewhere else...and if one was persistent enough they would transfer only such amount of hours that military pilot would need to do all modules of training, from doesn't matter how many hours one would get maybe 100... it was personal decision with no clear rules. :ugh:

Then we got Croatian Civil Aviation Authority and JAR, and everybody were happy...for one week.
In JAR it is stated that national CAA can accept military licenses and develop some form of conversion into civilian like UK CAA does, well our bright civil servants decided that it can, but doesn't have to, so they decided not to! :}

I got my ICAO CPL(H) in one neighbor state. Now they adopted JAR so to renew it I will also convert it to JAR CPL(H), which is not a problem, just expanse :*

Regarding my hours in Mi-17, with right passport (US) and 10-15h in Mi-17 sky is not a limit.

[hueyracer]

Thanks for the information about taking the written part outside of the US!

I was looking to "convert" my JAR-licence into the FAA ATPL within the next month; all flight schools (of course!) i got in contact with in the US told me that i HAVE to sit the exam in the US only, and that it is not possible to do it outside the US....

It´s going to change all my plans, then...
Zlocko, if you´re heading to do it somewhere in europe-let me know, i might join you.

Maybe we can share some costs.....

Cheers,

[Epiphany]

You can sit the written exam for the FAA ATP in UK at Flight Safety in Farnborough. The exam sitting is monthly but fills up quickly so call them to make a booking. You'll need to study the appropriate FAA manual and practice exam book.

The flight test has to be completed in USA (I believe) and is equivalent to an Instrument Rating test.

I've done both recently so if you need any advice just ask.

[MartinCh]

HR,

taking FAA writtens is easy. You can learn every question/answer from the Test Prep series. Only the instructor rating FOI database has been changed considerably and thus (maybe not now, but fairly recently) it was harder to pass the FOI test. it's theory of instructing, but lots of ambiguous discutable answer options off one book.

You could get FAA licences in Europe, but it's probably not worth the hassle and cost, as sorting visa and dropping in to US, take the written at the school or school nearby, booked ahead, you show up, gone in one hour or less, with the A4 pass confirmation you present to examiner after checking logbooks, totalling times in form 8710 and whatever flying 3hrs+ needed.

[heli7]

I have put through a few FAA PPL (H)students here in UK and couple of FAA CPL (H) students and they did their exams with Flight Safety in Farnborough and flight test with UK DPE Examiner

H7

[zlocko2002]

is it possible to do all three exams first (IR, CPL, ATP) and then to do flying part?

[Epiphany]

If you have sufficient experience to qualify for the ATP then you will only need to sit the ATP written. The flight test is also an IRT.

[MartinCh]

the main FAA ATP requirement for you to check would be the 500hrs qualifying FAA XC (50nm+ straight line in fixed wing or 25nm+ in helicopters with landing at the point away. There's some US ex-mil credit for those on long range bombing/recon missions without landing away, but can't recall the exact regs)

Other than that with your brief hours rundown you should be fine. Actually, from your past interest in some international jobs, FAA ATP would be more useful in your case, to be honest.

[zlocko2002]

so ATP written test would cover for IR and CPL?

do I have to do CPL flight test or I could just do IR and ATP flight test?

i have more than 1600h in Mi-17 and i guess that some o3 hours flights (around 600km/330NM) will cover distance on XC navigation.

all jobs that would pay off my investment in civil licenses and resigning military seems to be in ME and Asia...
I don't think that I have chance in North Sea...

[Gordy]

Not so fast people-----

One of the requirements for the ATP is that you hold a commercial license:

FAR 61.153--Eligibility for an ATP (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/9B506595E113E14E86256959004C0C0C?OpenDocument)

Sec. 61.153

Eligibility requirements: General.

To be eligible for an airline transport pilot certificate, a person must:
(a) Be at least 23 years of age;
(b) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet one of these requirements due to medical reasons, then the Administrator may place such operating limitations on that applicant's pilot certificate as are necessary for the safe operation of the aircraft;
(c) Be of good moral character;
(d) Meet at least one of the following requirements:
(1) Hold at least a commercial pilot certificate and an instrument rating;
(2) Meet the military experience requirements under Sec. 61.73 of this part to qualify for a commercial pilot certificate, and an instrument rating if the person is a rated military pilot or former rated military pilot of an Armed Force of the United States; or
(3) Hold either a foreign airline transport pilot or foreign commercial pilot license and an instrument rating, without limitations issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation.
(e) Meet the aeronautical experience requirements of this subpart that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought before applying for the practical test;
(f) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas of Sec. 61.155(c) of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought;
(g) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.157(e) of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought; and
(h) Comply with the sections of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.

You can use your prior hours but are not eligible for the license purely based upon your non-US military experience.

One of the requirements for a commercial license is----you guessed it---a private license.

It has been a while since I was in full time instruction---so I am open to being corrected, however, the way I read the FAR's, You will need to do ALL of them. Long gone are the days when you could go right to commercial.

[hueyracer]

Is there anyone on this forum able to take our (Zlocko´s and mine) FAA-ATPL-checkride and help us setting up an appointment for the written?
Zlocko, hope you don´t mind that i jump in.....?

Planned on doing this in June/July (in the US, have been just about to book everything), but am off for 6 weeks in February/March-would it be realistic to book an appointment at the end of march, to get the written part done in France or GB?

[zlocko2002]

ok, so with my JAR CPL, I can get FAA PPL

do I have to do all three written exams, or just I could take ATP written? If I take written exams how long are they valid if i don't do flying part?

[Epiphany]

As Gordy pasted,

(3) Hold either a foreign airline transport pilot or foreign commercial pilot license and an instrument rating, without limitations issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation.

if you have a JAR CPL and IR you can just take the ATP written exam. As for the period of validity you'll have to check. I have a JAR ATPL(H) IR and took the FAA ATP written in UK, then 3 months later took the ATP flight test in USA.

[Vertical Freedom]

Namaste zlocko

go get a tourist visa for Hawaii - USA, then go do the on-line learner site for theory coaching, then you do 3 on-line exams, & then fly the tests for PPL, then CPL, then IFR(R) finaly the ATP - IF flight test....then You have an FAA - ATP(R) :D

Aum & Happy landings :ok:

VF :cool:

[GoodGrief]

Careful there VF,

he gets his IR, so no tourist visa, it's an M visa plus the complete TSA shebang.

[MartinCh]

Yeah. The ICAO CPL and IR could be a problem.
I bet Epiphany had full ATPL already, hence no issue.

I've seen some South African guys having do do their FAA 61.75 validation at FSDO, who only came in to get minimum Puma training done for FAA ATP, a requirement for the Afghanistan or wherever job.

At least AFAIK, you don't need FAA instructor sign-off for the written or checkride, if you manage to get stuff done for the ATP ride. Unlike CPL written or checkride. If you have to do CPL in the end, Dauntless Soft or bit of ground with nearby FAA CFI discussing regs and then signing you off is needed (the online written training websites can provide the sign offs). CFII for IR.

At least you don't need Canadian ATP ride in multipilot helicopter :)
If you want job in ME, definitely bring full ATP along, for easy upgrade from copilot to PIC without the need to do local theory. That's what I've read around here.

EDIT: guys too fast, already posted most stuff. Nothing says you cannot do more than one checkride in a day (or following day/s) so long you got 'boxes ticked'. You get the CPL validated to FAA PPL (no checkride), get minimum training/familiarisation done, do writtens, schedule checkride.

You wrote you got some 330nm flights in Mi17. Well, it's not just the qualifying LONG xc flight, but also the 500hrs total crosscountry time with the minimum distance, for FAA rating. Airplane time can be credited to an extent as detailed in CFR/FARs.

[zlocko2002]

i don't think visa would be a problem for me, actually I might go to USA on government expense for a year :}

so regarding written exams, do I have to do all three of them or just ATP?

I understood that I have to get first CPL and IR to get ATP.

[Gordy]

As you hold an ICAO commercial you without an IR, you have two choices. You need to do one of the following:

1. Get your ICAO license valid again---it is useless if it is expired.
2. Get an ICAO IR.
3. Pass the FAA ATP written and flight test, (which will include the IR).

Then you can just do the FAA ATP written and flight test, based upon your foreign licenses.

OR

1. Pass the FAA private written and flight test.
2. Pass the FAA commercial written and flight test.
3. Pass the FAA ATP written and flight test, (which will include the IR).

ALL of your "verified" military hours will count towards the hours requirements. However you will need to meet the aeronautical experience requirements of, (emphasis added by me):

FAR 61.109 (c) (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/14A11189B72032D6862576C400578B82?OpenDocument) for the Private.


(c) For a helicopter rating. Except as provided in paragraph (k) of this section, a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.107(b)(3) of this part, and the training must include at least--

(1) 3 hours of cross-country flight training in a helicopter;

(2) Except as provided in Sec. 61.110 of this part, 3 hours of night flight training in a helicopter that includes--

(i) One cross-country flight of over 50 nautical miles total distance; and

(ii) 10 takeoffs and 10 landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport.

(3) 3 hours of flight training with an authorized instructor in a helicopter in preparation for the practical test, which must have been performed within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test; and

(4) 10 hours of solo flight time in a helicopter, consisting of at least--

(i) 3 hours cross-country time;

(ii) One solo cross country flight of 100 nautical miles total distance, with landings at three points, and one segment of the flight being a straight-line distance of more than 25 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations; and

(iii) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.
AND:

FAR 61.129(c) (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/6B2FADCE6B2C97E88625768D0073A7A1?OpenDocument)


(c) For a helicopter rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating must log at least 150 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:

(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 50 hours must be in helicopters.

(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least--

(i) 35 hours in helicopters; and

(ii) 10 hours in cross-country flight in helicopters.

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.127(b)(3) of this part that includes at least--

[(i) Five hours on the control and maneuvering of a helicopter solely by reference to instruments using a view-limiting device including attitude instrument flying, partial panel skills, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, and intercepting and tracking navigational systems. This aeronautical experience may be performed in an aircraft, flight simulator, flight training device, or an aviation training device;

(ii) One 2-hour cross country flight in a helicopter in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

(iii) One 2-hour cross country flight in a helicopter in nighttime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(iv) Three hours in a helicopter with an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test.

(4) Ten hours of solo flight time in a helicopter or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a helicopter with an authorized instructor on board (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement under paragraph (c)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed under Sec. 61.127(b)(3) that includes--]

(i) One cross-country flight with landings at a minimum of three points, with one segment consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and

(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern).

[MartinCh]

Gordy, so long he revalidates his ICAO CPL, he'd be better of getting part 61.75 foreign licence validation/verification. There's no point paying another checkride and written fee. Tons of information on PPRuNe about validation.
It's smooth if all well prepared. I've done it twice.

If going the FAA ratings route, he'd have to do IR checkride before ATP, not to forget.

[zlocko2002]

Gordy I will have JAR CPL(H), when I renew my license.
from what I red in FAR with that license I can get FAA PPL without any tests.

I want to get FAA IR CPL and ATP because doing JAR has no economical sense for me (the price is so high, that salary increase will not cover it, so it is better to just stay in military) and I don't know where I could get ICAO licenses, and why would I do it when FAA IR is much cheaper.

so, can I take only ATP written, and then do some flight training and do flight exams for IR, CPL and ATP, or I have to do IR written than IR flight, CPL written than CPL flight, and at the end ATP written and ATP flight?

[Jarvy]

I now live in the US and hold a JAR CPL(H), to get a FAA PPL(H) based on my UK licence I had to pay the CAA to allow them to verify my licence to the FAA. Then to get my FAA CPL(H) I had to take the CPL exam but first the school had to sign my log book to say that I had the knowledge to take the exam.
As for the flying test I had to just fly the required amount to reach the required standard for test.
Don't know if this helps.

[MartinCh]

Good idea. You're not the first.
I wanted to do CPL written instead of PPL and CPL written after, but was greatly discouraged not to bring 'different' (although higher) written pass paper for the checkride. I did read through FARs and there's no clause of substitution I could find implicitly.

If you get it approved from FSDO or Chief Counsel then it'd do. Would save you 300 bucks. The paperwork sent out from DPE has the original pass paper and if used for more than one checkride, you'd either have to get 3 originals or have it all sent out together. Hmm.

[Gordy]

MartinCh

Gordy, so long he revalidates his ICAO CPL, he'd be better of getting part 61.75 foreign licence validation/verification.

Pretty much what I said I thought anyway:

1. Get your ICAO license valid again---it is useless if it is expired.
2. Get an ICAO IR.
3. Pass the FAA ATP written and flight test, (which will include the IR).

Apart from I did not mention about the validation part. The validation of his foreign commercial is only good for obtaining certificates and ratings. He would need to complete an FAA commercial checkride in order to exercise commercial privileges.

FAR 61.175 (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/56D0240EC0FE7FA58625768F005C1C7D?OpenDocument)

He still needs to do the initial ATP(H), as he only has ATPL(A).

[birrddog]

Don't forget to checkout flightschoolcandidates.gov for the TSA approval.

You'll need to create an account, get the flight school you are going to do your 3hrs training and sign off to approve your application.

You'll need to pay a fee and get fingerprints taken from an approved place, possibly a local US embassy or consulate.

[MartinCh]

ICAO PPL or higher to PPL max in FAA now. It used to be also for CPL validation, stopped decade or two ago. I did not imply he'd get FAA CPL through validation (not counting Canadian fixed wing CPL maybe)

Oh, btw, if he had full ATPL or CPL/IR and did the test in Non-N-reg (one he'd be authorised to act as PIC, he would very maybe get away with having to do the full or validation PPL. :)

61.153 does talk about meeting the knowledge, flight skills, aeronautical experience etc, but I fail to see definitely saying that holders of foreign ATPL with different category/class cannot use that towards meeting the said part. It does not say which category and class, just ATP or foreign ATP.

I know it sounds crazy, but if the regs don't prohibit it, they should allow it, no?
61.123 - 2h (general eligibility for CPL) requires having at least PPL
61.153 - 3h: Comply with the sections of this subpart that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.

Anyone tried this special case in the past? Any FAA Chief Counsel interpretation/opinion anyone knows of? Food for thought.

[Gordy]

They can use the hours---just have to meet the requirements---which include the 3 hours within the preceding how ever many days.

[MartinCh]

FAQs of AFS-800 from doc posted online.
Well, not there yet, finding the precedent for using ICAO ATPL(A) and constituent IR(A) for FAA ATP(H) without IR(H) from anywhere. But it does ring very close to that 'mix and match' acceptability.

Either way, I FOUND GOOD PRECEDENT for NOT HAVING TO DO CPL checkride, since you want ATP papers. You have CPL from Serbia or Slovenia (or thereabouts) and once you have FAA IR(H) added to your 61.75 validation, you're ready to do ATP ride with ATP written pass.

I can take 10% of savings as beer spending money if we cross our paths in real life, for all the research I've done for you. :p :8

QUESTION: An applicant holds a foreign commercial pilot license but does not hold an instrument rating from that country. This pilot holds a restricted U.S. private pilot certificate (issued on the basis of his British commercial pilot license in accordance with § 61.75). He also holds, on that restricted certificate, an Instrument-Airplane rating (U.S. Test Passed) earned in accordance with our Part 61 with required instrument training and our knowledge and practical tests. May this pilot “mix & match” these certificates to meet the eligibility requirement of § 61.153(d)(1) and/or (3) to make application for a U.S. ATP certificate?


ANSWER: Ref. § 61.153(d)(3); Yes. This has been acceptable policy within the Airman Certification Branch, AFS-700, Oklahoma City, OK, and they will accept applications with this “. . . mixing and matching of the two provisions” [i.e., § 61.153(d)(1) and (3)]. This policy has further been acknowledged as acceptable by the Manager of Certification Branch, AFS 840, Washington, DC. Because in this situation, the rationale for this policy is the applicant does hold a “. . . foreign commercial pilot license and an instrument rating, without limitations issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation.” Even though the Instrument Airplane rating is on the U.S. private pilot certificate, the United States is a “. . . contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation.” So, in effect, this policy is not considered a mixing and matching of § 61.153(d)(1) and (3), but is purely acceptable under § 61.153(d)(3) alone.
{Q&A-390}

[Gordy]

No research necessary----everything is in this thread already.

1. Get your ICAO license valid again---it is useless if it is expired.
2. Get an ICAO IR.
3. Pass the FAA ATP written and flight test, (which will include the IR).

You miss the whole point---his Serbian CPL has EXPIRED....as he stated in post 1

got ICAO CPL(H) with type rating for Schweizer300, which expired but I can renew it

Therefore he needs to re-validate that first. He NEVER did have to do an FAA commercial.

He can then obtain the foreign IR...then he meets the requirements of FAR 61.1523(d)(3) and can then do the ATP without having to do an FAA commercial.

As Birddog stated, he will need TSA approval.

[zlocko2002]

Uf...
Boys you lost me somewhere at previous page!

I dont have ICAO ATPL(A)+IR, i have passed theory(written exams) for ATPL(A) and IR through university (14 written exams instead FAA ATP one written exam). I also did conversion course for JAR ATPL(A) theory, so in a future I could do just helicopter differential to get JAR/EASA ATPL(H) theory, or written exams if you prefer.

I know that I need visa and TSA or which ever check, it will be no problem...

I have no intention to do ICAO or JAR IR, it cost fortune! And if i had that I wouldn't do FAA licenses...

I know that I have to renew my ICAO CPL(H), and it will be converted to JAR

So from what i seen looks like i will have to do:

1. renew my ICAO CPL(H) => JAR CPL(H), no big deal
2. get visa and TSA approval, no big deal
3. get FAA medical, no big deal (would they accept JAR ?)
4. do a FAA validation of my JAR CPL(H) => FAA PPL(H), seems not to be big deal
5. written exams (do I have to do all three or just ATP, in JAR/EASA ATPL covers for CPL and IR), couple of hundred of $ and still less than 14 JAR exams and one year of dedicated hard studding :8
6. To do 3h of training with CFI, probably some more because I am used to fly much bigger helicopter than one schools have. no big deal (unless i need something like 40hours, than I am just a lousy pilot, I hope if I survived so far I am not that bad) :uhoh:
7.Checkride(s) for IR and probably CPL, and then for ATP?

PS. If any of you boy visit Croatia drop me a message, beer, wine or poison of choice will be provided in overwhelming amounts :ok:

[Gordy]

1. renew my ICAO CPL(H) => JAR CPL(H), no big deal
2. get visa and TSA approval, no big deal
3. get FAA medical, no big deal (would they accept JAR ?)
4. do a FAA validation of my JAR CPL(H) => FAA PPL(H), seems not to be big deal
5. written exams (do I have to do all three or just ATP, in JAR/EASA ATPL covers for CPL and IR), couple of hundred of $ and still less than 14 JAR exams and one year of dedicated hard studding
6. To do 3h of training with CFI, probably some more because I am used to fly much bigger helicopter than one schools have. no big deal (unless i need something like 40hours, than I am just a lousy pilot, I hope if I survived so far I am not that bad)
7.Checkride(s) for IR and probably CPL, and then for ATP?

1. Correct
2. Correct
3. Will NOT accept JAR.
4. Correct---paperwork exercise--make sure you have logbooks in order.
5. You will have to do at least the instrument and ATP...not commercial
6. 3 hours minimum---this is just for the instrument training. You will also need to be proficient in the aircraft for ALL of the VFR maneuvers required on the ATP flight check---this means autorotations etc. My guess is more than 3 hours to get proficient.
7. Flight checks for Instrument and ATP, (which may be combined I think...).

As Martinch mentioned....you will need to meet the 500 hours of cross-country flight time. It is defined as any flight with a landing more than 25nm from the point of departure. You will need aviation charts and your logbook and will need to prove that 500 hours of your flight time meets that requirement. You may wish to start creating a spreadsheet showing that time along with the page number from your logbook.

[cl12pv2s]

In addition:

Where a flight requires to be of a certain distance...say to qualify as 'X-C (30nm as the crow flies), if it was done outside of the USA, take a chart to the checkride or have access to an online distance calculator. I've seen a picky examiner stop a checkride because the candidate could not verify the overseas distances flown.

Beware of the validity time of your charts and plates. Showing up with expired material is an epic 'fail'. If necessary borrow (photocopy) for your training, then buy a set which will be valid for your checkride.

[zlocko2002]

well I guess it will not be a problem to bring a chart of Croatia, so that distances can be verified...
Seams to me that hardest job will be to make excel for all 500h of XC flying :ugh:

[Jet Ranger]

7.Checkride(s) for IR and probably CPL, and then for ATP?




Hmm...you have JAR CPL-H ... But still not JAR CPL-H with IR(H) ....or ICAO, whatever ...

I´m not sure that only checkride for FAA IR(H) will be enough ...

...I think you should first have to put your IR(H) into JAR or ICAO licence...

Because, if you miss this step, you will stay (only) on FAA CPL-H VFR...that mean, no FAA ATPL-H.

Only my opinion, maybe I´m wrong, maybe someone here can explain this better ...:ok:

note1: if you have ICAO CPL(H), first have to complete JAR ATPL(H) theory, before JAR CPL (H) licence....(bridge from A to H theory)...

[zlocko2002]

no, in FAR it states that one needs 3h with CFII within two months before check ride, 40h of IFR of which 15 should be on helicopter, or something like that... and I have in my logbook 180h of IFR (transferred from military logbook)

why would I do FAA IR and ATP if I have to pay 55000E just to get JAR IR...
then I would just stay in military, I love flying and I fly, but I will not pay to fly...

someday my country will need civil helicopter pilots for HEMS, and then government will realize what they have done when they blocked military pilots in obtaining civil licenses. then they will need to find a way to license us or they will need to hire foreign pilots.
it will be in hard to explain that because they have 50 retired military pilots who use to do that till yesterday, pilot in early forties, with all theoretical knowledge, with all experiences, but no licenses...

[Jet Ranger]

no, in FAR it states that one needs 3h with CFII within two months before check ride


OK, I didn´t know that, in that case no problem about that ...:ok:

[MartinCh]

Gordy,
Thanks. We're both saying very similar/same thing. However, people when they talk about ICAO IR in the context of FAA licensing, they imply the IR on the foreign licence. The way I read the 61.153, it's not explicit that it can be mix&matched between (d)(1) and (d)(3).
You don't want him to meet DPE who'd read it the way I did 24hrs ago and then him not having printout of the interpretation at hand.

zlocko,
You'd need at least FAA class 3 medical for any FAA checkride, since you're acting as PIC (they have 3 levels, PPL, CPL, ATP), but may as well do ATP medical and it'd run till whenever the PPL would run till, after the end of ATP or CPL validity. You'd need ATP medical later on anyway, so in the same sense of people checking them meeting JAR Class 1 reqs before embarking on integrated course. Good news, as you probably know, you can do it with any FAA authorised AME, available on their website, for many countries around the world. That way you could probably do it in your country's capital or nearby. If you pass military medical and JAA Class 1, you'll definitely pass any FAA medical.

For the 500hrs FAA XC, fixed wing time counts as well, but then it's 50nm+. In case you're short of the helicopter time due to doing shorter trips. Overwater SAR will be no-go, as you'd not have landed (unless some platform http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/nerd.gif a la oil rig, that has fixed location). I suggest drawing 25nm circle around your base/s on chart and run through logbook, highlight/mark the entries that qualify, do running total and once you hit the mark, it's done. It's your responsibility to have proof and DPE's doing rides with foreigners have been known to ask for it if they have suspicion. The excel, hmm, not sure. I'd say if you mark entries in logbook and keep little running total on those pages, that should be enough. Putting rough distance to the furthest landing would be a bonus. FAA pilots don't need FAA XC for part 135 crosscountry but tend to run the FAA XC in column, for later use for CPL/IR and more importantly, ATP, aiming for airlines. Too late, I know..
Maybe if you go though the XC column in your logbook and discount any shorter XC trips, total, then you got FAA qualifying/countable XC time.

Also do check the long XC part with multiple stops/approaches under IFR plan with instructor. Something that may not have been done the way FAA like it. Worst scenario is that you do longer flight and get that one out of way, after some sim refresher if needed and voila, your 3hrs minimum training before checkride is done.

Jet Ranger,
You're wrong. If you read the interpretation I posted and also recent Gordy's post, you'd see that ANY ICAO IR (Which includes FAA and the D1 and D3 of 61.153 can be mix&matched) would do, even if not added to the same Aviation Authority's CPL.
If I want to be technical, the 15hrs mentioned in 40hrs of total minimum instrument training, don't even have to be in helicopter. They have to be with helicopter FAA CFII and can also be in fixed wing aircraft. It's all in the regs.

[Jet Ranger]

@MartinCh
My question was about...

Actually, our friend doesn't posses ICAO CPL H with IR-H, he has ICAO CPL-H (VFR), with experience of 185 h instrument flight hours in military, but without exam in civil world for IR-H (ICAO IR exam).

Will FAA accept that with only check ride for FAA IR-H, was my question...?

... Because in JAR it's unacceptable, and thats the reason why our friend said it's too expensive!




JR

[Jet Ranger]

... Because in JAR it's unacceptable, and thats the reason why our friend said it's too expensive!




...and off course, it´s not possible that sth. what cost in Europe such a big amount of money, can be solved in US with one IR check ride...FAA and JAR standards are very close.

Correct me if I´m wrong.:ok:

JR

[MartinCh]

JR, be glad you're not in Europe looking for job with JAA/EASA licence.
Zlocko may not bother with European IR, as he can get job with his medium heavy twin PIC time with FAA ATP elsewhere.

Let me put this simple. FAA training - crediting of other ICAO IR training, minimum 15hrs with helicopter instrument instructor total, of which HAVE to be 3 in HELICOPTER previous 2 months before checkride. Most of training can be done in fixed wing, sim, etc. All relatively cheap.

Now try standalone JAA instrument rating. 50hrs of training, of which 10 or 15 have to be in actual aircraft - helicopter. For it to be of any (exceptions exist) use for twin offshore jobs for young CPL pilots, the sim would likely be at the cost exceeding R44 rental in the US. Now add in 8hrs minimum INITIAL TWIN rating. At 2000-3000 USD/hr. Before doing the IFR training. So you're looking at quite a lot.

UK examiner for CPL or IR? 1000 bucks to CAA thank you very much. License issue (admin fee, FAA free of charge) - 230 or so GBP.
Head not spinning yet? Try doing partial fail, retest at half the one grand USD rate, plus rental at that crazy price. Plus any IR theory or exams again if his IR credit expired. No such thing as easy FAA IR written. It's rather 7 separate IR exams that need lots of studying/cramming.

Sure, there's reduction of minimum training for heli IR if one has JAA airplane IR. Which Zlocko doesnt. Still more than converting ICAO IR to JAA IR.
That one for multi would be 10hrs minimum sim and 5hrs aircraft. Put extra 5 hours for second/third twin rating. Maybe in his case still 8, as he ain't got JAA licence rating, only S300. Think some CAAs can put the rating onto licence, if you ask nicely, subject to person having 500+ PIC time on those.
Oh, hang on, Croatian CAA won't give him licence. Or the neighbouring country probably not being nice to do so, else he'd probably already have it.

It's third of the cost, doing twin IR for Europe, from FAA IR. Actually, with FAA ATP, he can simply drop the whole Europe thing and get well paid cushy job in ME instead of flying Mi17 in various not very nice places.

He can do FAA validation to have PPL (after he gets current/legal), which he'd add the FAA IR (US test passed) to it, which will be used for FAA ATP ride. Voila. Job done.

Why all this? The cost, bureaucracy. USA is 'can do' for aviation and keeping it simple. Not so in Europe. It doesn't matter how he gets ICAO IR (Faa in this case) to convert into European one. BTW, he'd still pay in the region of 20-25k EUR for the cheapest way conversion to JAA/EASA IR(H) on twins.

[Jet Ranger]

zlocko, sorry if we disturb the thread or if we are off-topic...


Still more than converting ICAO IR to JAA IR.


@MartinCh

Third time, Zlocko does not have ICAO IR ... Zlocko hold ICAO (will be JAR) CPL-H without IR-H in it.

[DaveKnell]

Back (bloody ages) to the visa thing - you only need a Mx visa if you're studying more than 20-odd hours per week. I got my PPL(H) perfectly happily and legally on tourist visas - there is, of course, the alien flight students program to comply with to ensure that you're not planning to fly an R22 into the White House..

[zlocko2002]

well, visa will not be a problem for me :8

[MartinCh]

JR, he WILL have once he gets FAA IR. It's relevant and suitable for his plans.

[Jet Ranger]

How do you think that he will do that...?

Because he has to convert his ICAO CPL-H to FAA CPL-H, and he will do that. But how to convert IR when his ICAO licence is without that IR-H?

It is very relevant for him because without IR-H he won't be able to make FAA ATPL-H licence!

He will have to do full IFR training, 50 h of flight training for IR-H. And that small thing completly change the whole situation.
He should ask some FAA flight school how many of military instrument flight hours (without civil licence) they can accept (if any) for making IR-H. That is first step.

It's no so simple as you said...


JR

[MartinCh]

JR, I know I write too much, but maybe you should read bit more. Especially the regs and FAA official interpretations. He doesn't have to do FAA CPL. He has to have IR from ANYWHERE, VALID, INCLUDING FAA, before doing FAA ATP checkride. Fact. Plus whatever minimum pre-checkride reqs. No point explaining things I explained, as well as Gordy, though from different point of view, if you refuse to accept OFFICIAL information from FAA. Do you have FAA licenses? Did you read relevant FAA regs?

[Jet Ranger]

... He has to have IR from ANYWHERE, VALID, INCLUDING FAA, before doing FAA ATP checkride...

@MartinCh...

you don´t understand me, what I want to say... CRUCIAL thing...he doesn´t have IR from anywhere, valid...that´s a problem!


He used to fly in IMC conditions in military, but has never put that in civil licence, in civil log book, civil IR exam...posses only ICAO CPL-H without IR-H! Now, he will convert that licence in JAR CPL-H without IR-H!

I have just tried to tell Zlocko, that I think, it is not possible to come in US with JAR CPL-H VFR (btw. I like US way od aviation life- KISS method- keep it simple, been there done that...wonderfull days - to fly with that guys!)...and make one check ride for FAA PPL-H, after that check ride for CPL-H (that will be OK), and after that 2-3 hours and IR-H check ride (that will be a problem), and after that check ride for FAA ATPL-H (not possible without IR...and few more problems like MCC etc etc...)

I just hope that Zlocko will do that with - as much is possible - less money, and have less problems than in his country (CAA)!


OVER AND OUT! :ok:



JR

[MartinCh]

Now you're mixing in MCC? Visibly Europe based..
No such requirement in FAA world.
You're blatantly ignoring most of what has been written, referenced etc here.
I give up.

[SASless]

Jet Ranger....it sounds like the rules may cause a lot of problems for our friend. His military experience would have had to be within 12 months, and he must have been flying US Military aircraft in a non-Student status in order to qualify for the Military Competency route to an FAA License and have documentation to prove all that.


Sec. 61.153 Eligibility requirements: General.

To be eligible for an airline transport pilot certificate, a person must:
(a) Be at least 23 years of age;
(b) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language;
(c) Be of good moral character;
(d) Hold at least a current third-class medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter;
(e) Meet at least one of the following requirements--
(1) Hold at least a commercial pilot certificate and an instrument rating;
(2) Meet the requirements of Sec. 61.73 of this part to qualify for a commercial pilot certificate and an instrument rating if the person is a rated pilot in the U.S. military; or
(3) Hold either a foreign airline transport pilot or foreign commercial pilot license and an instrument rating if the person holds a pilot license issued by a member State to the International Civil Aviation Organization.
(f) Meet the aeronautical experience requirements of this subpart that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought before applying for the practical test;
(g) Satisfactorily accomplish the knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas of Sec. 61.155(c) of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought;
(h) Satisfactorily accomplish the practical test on the applicable approved areas of operation listed in Sec. 61.157(d) of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought; and
(i) Comply with the sections of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.



§ 61.161 Aeronautical experience: Rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating.


(a) A person who is applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating, must have at least 1,200 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least:

(1) 500 hours of cross-country flight time;

(2) 100 hours of night flight time, of which 15 hours are in helicopters;

(3) 200 hours of flight time in helicopters, which includes at least 75 hours as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of a pilot in command under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof; and

(4) 75 hours of instrument flight time in actual or simulated instrument meteorological conditions, of which at least 50 hours are obtained in flight with at least 25 hours in helicopters as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of a pilot in command under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof.

(b) Training in a flight simulator or flight training device may be credited toward the instrument flight time requirements of paragraph (a)(4) of this section, subject to the following:

(1) Training in a flight simulator or a flight training device must be accomplished in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents a rotorcraft.

(2) Except as provided in paragraph (b)(3) of this section, an applicant may receive credit for not more than a total of 25 hours of simulated instrument time in a flight simulator and flight training device.

(3) A maximum of 50 hours of training in a flight simulator or flight training device may be credited toward the instrument flight time requirements of paragraph (a)(4) of this section if the aeronautical experience is accomplished in an approved course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61–103, 62 FR 40906, July 30, 1997; Amdt. 61–104, 63 FR 20289, Apr. 23, 1998]


§ 61.73 Military pilots or former military pilots: Special rules.

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(a) General. Except for a person who has been removed from flying status for lack of proficiency or because of a disciplinary action involving aircraft operations, a U.S. military pilot or former military pilot who meets the requirements of this section may apply, on the basis of his or her military pilot qualifications, for:

(1) A commercial pilot certificate with the appropriate aircraft category and class rating.

(2) An instrument rating with the appropriate aircraft rating.

(3) A type rating.

(b) Military pilots and former military pilots in the U.S. Armed Forces. A person who qualifies as a military pilot or former military pilot in the U.S. Armed Forces may apply for a pilot certificate and ratings under paragraph (a) of this section if that person—

(1) Presents evidentiary documents described under paragraphs (h)(1), (2), and (3) of this section that show the person's status in the U.S. Armed Forces.

(2) Has passed the military competency aeronautical knowledge test on the appropriate parts of this chapter for commercial pilot privileges and limitations, air traffic and general operating rules, and accident reporting rules.

(3) Presents official U.S. military records that show compliance with one of the following requirements—

(i) Before the date of the application, passing an official U.S. military pilot and instrument proficiency check in a military aircraft of the kind of aircraft category, class, and type, if class or type of aircraft is applicable, for the ratings sought; or

(ii) Before the date of application, logging 10 hours of pilot time as a military pilot in a U.S. military aircraft in the kind of aircraft category, class, and type, if a class rating or type rating is applicable, for the aircraft rating sought.

(c) A military pilot in the Armed Forces of a foreign contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation. A person who is a military pilot in the Armed Forces of a foreign contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation and is assigned to pilot duties in the U.S. Armed Forces, for purposes other than receiving flight training, may apply for a commercial pilot certificate and ratings under paragraph (a) of this section, provided that person—

(1) Presents evidentiary documents described under paragraph (h)(4) of this section that show the person is a military pilot in the Armed Forces of a foreign contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, and is assigned to pilot duties in the U.S. Armed Forces, for purposes other than receiving flight training.

(2) Has passed the military competency aeronautical knowledge test on the appropriate parts of this chapter for commercial pilot privileges and limitations, air traffic and general operating rules, and accident reporting rules.

(3) Presents official U.S. military records that show compliance with one of the following requirements:

(i) Before the date of the application, passed an official U.S. military pilot and instrument proficiency check in a military aircraft of the kind of aircraft category, class, or type, if class or type of aircraft is applicable, for the ratings; or

(ii) Before the date of the application, logged 10 hours of pilot time as a military pilot in a U.S. military aircraft of the kind of category, class, and type of aircraft, if a class rating or type rating is applicable, for the aircraft rating.

(d) Instrument rating. A person who is qualified as a U.S. military pilot or former military pilot may apply for an instrument rating to be added to a pilot certificate if that person—

(1) Has passed an instrument proficiency check in the U.S. Armed Forces in the aircraft category for the instrument rating sought; and

(2) Has an official U.S. Armed Forces record that shows the person is instrument pilot qualified by the U.S. Armed Forces to conduct instrument flying on Federal airways in that aircraft category and class for the instrument rating sought.

(e) Aircraft type rating. An aircraft type rating may only be issued for a type of aircraft that has a comparable civilian type designation by the Administrator.

(f) Aircraft type rating placed on an airline transport pilot certificate. A person who is a military pilot or former military pilot of the U.S. Armed Forces and requests an aircraft type rating to be placed on an existing U.S. airline transport pilot certificate may be issued the rating at the airline transport pilot certification level, provided that person:

(1) Holds a category and class rating for that type of aircraft at the airline transport pilot certification level; and

(2) Has passed an official U.S. military pilot check and instrument proficiency check in that type of aircraft.

(g) Flight instructor certificate and ratings. A person who can show official U.S. military documentation of being a U.S. military instructor pilot or U.S. military pilot examiner, or a former instructor pilot or pilot examiner may apply for and be issued a flight instructor certificate with the appropriate ratings if that person:

(1) Holds a commercial or airline transport pilot certificate with the appropriate aircraft category and class rating, if a class rating is appropriate, for the flight instructor rating sought;

(2) Holds an instrument rating, or has instrument privileges, on the pilot certificate that is appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought; and

(3) Presents the following documents:

(i) A knowledge test report that shows the person passed a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas listed under §61.185(a) appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought and the knowledge test was passed within the preceding 24 calendar months prior to the month of application. If the U.S. military instructor pilot or pilot examiner already holds a flight instructor certificate, holding of a flight instructor certificate suffices for the knowledge test report.

(ii) An official U.S. Armed Forces record or order that shows the person is or was qualified as a U.S. Armed Forces military instructor pilot or pilot examiner for the flight instructor rating sought.

(iii) An official U.S. Armed Forces record or order that shows the person completed a U.S. Armed Forces' instructor pilot or pilot examiner training course and received an aircraft rating qualification as a military instructor pilot or pilot examiner that is appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought.

(iv) An official U.S. Armed Forces record or order that shows the person passed a U.S. Armed Forces instructor pilot or pilot examiner proficiency check in an aircraft as a military instructor pilot or pilot examiner that is appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought.

(h) Documents for qualifying for a pilot certificate and rating. The following documents are required for a person to apply for a pilot certificate and rating:

(1) An official U.S. Armed Forces record that shows the person is or was a military pilot.

(2) An official U.S. Armed Forces record that shows the person graduated from a U.S. Armed Forces undergraduate pilot training school and received a rating qualification as a military pilot.

(3) An official U.S. Armed Forces record that shows the pilot passed a pilot proficiency check and instrument proficiency check in an aircraft as a military pilot.

(4) If a person is a military pilot in the Armed Forces from a foreign contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation and is applying for a pilot certificate and rating, that person must present the following:

(i) An official U.S. Armed Forces record that shows the person is a military pilot in the U.S. Armed Forces;

(ii) An official U.S. Armed Forces record that shows the person is assigned as a military pilot in the U.S. Armed Forces for purposes other than receiving flight training;

(iii) An official record that shows the person graduated from a military undergraduate pilot training school from the Armed Forces from a foreign contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation or from the U.S. Armed Forces, and received a qualification as a military pilot; and

(iv) An official U.S. Armed Forces record that shows that the person passed a pilot proficiency check and instrument proficiency check in an aircraft as a military pilot in the U.S. Armed Forces.

[Doc. No. FAA–2006–26661, 74 FR 42555, Aug. 21, 2009]

§ 61.75 Private pilot certificate issued on the basis of a foreign pilot license.

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(a) General. A person who holds a foreign pilot license at the private pilot level or higher that was issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation may apply for and be issued a U.S. private pilot certificate with the appropriate ratings if the foreign pilot license meets the requirements of this section.

(b) Certificate issued. A U.S. private pilot certificate issued under this section must specify the person's foreign license number and country of issuance. A person who holds a foreign pilot license issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation may be issued a U.S. private pilot certificate based on the foreign pilot license without any further showing of proficiency, provided the applicant:

(1) Meets the requirements of this section;

(2) Holds a foreign pilot license, at the private pilot license level or higher, that does not contain a limitation stating that the applicant has not met all of the standards of ICAO for that license;

(3) Does not hold a U.S. pilot certificate other than a U.S. student pilot certificate;

(4) Holds a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter or a medical license issued by the country that issued the person's foreign pilot license; and

(5) Is able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet one of these requirements due to medical reasons, then the Administrator may place such operating limitations on that applicant's pilot certificate as are necessary for the safe operation of the aircraft.

(c) Aircraft ratings issued. Aircraft ratings listed on a person's foreign pilot license, in addition to any issued after testing under the provisions of this part, may be placed on that person's U.S. pilot certificate for private pilot privileges only.

(d) Instrument ratings issued. A person who holds an instrument rating on the foreign pilot license issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation may be issued an instrument rating on a U.S. pilot certificate provided:

(1) The person's foreign pilot license authorizes instrument privileges;

(2) Within 24 months preceding the month in which the person applies for the instrument rating, the person passes the appropriate knowledge test; and

(3) The person is able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet one of these requirements due to medical reasons, then the Administrator may place such operating limitations on that applicant's pilot certificate as are necessary for the safe operation of the aircraft.

(e) Operating privileges and limitations. A person who receives a U.S. private pilot certificate that has been issued under the provisions of this section:

(1) May act as pilot in command of a civil aircraft of the United States in accordance with the pilot privileges authorized by this part and the limitations placed on that U.S. pilot certificate;

(2) Is limited to the privileges placed on the certificate by the Administrator;

(3) Is subject to the limitations and restrictions on the person's U.S. certificate and foreign pilot license when exercising the privileges of that U.S. pilot certificate in an aircraft of U.S. registry operating within or outside the United States; and

(f) Limitation on licenses used as the basis for a U.S. certificate. A person may use only one foreign pilot license as a basis for the issuance of a U.S. pilot certificate. The foreign pilot license and medical certification used as a basis for issuing a U.S. pilot certificate under this section must be written in English or accompanied by an English transcription that has been signed by an official or representative of the foreign aviation authority that issued the foreign pilot license.

(g) Limitation placed on a U.S. pilot certificate. A U.S. pilot certificate issued under this section can only be exercised when the pilot has the foreign pilot license, upon which the issuance of the U.S. pilot certificate was based, in the holder's possession or readily accessible in the aircraft.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997, as amended by Amdt. 61–124, 74 FR 42556, Aug. 21, 2009]

[Jet Ranger]

Oh yes... Now evth. is clear... Thank you SAS!

Not simple...

[MartinCh]

SASless,

Zlocko isn't going to use his military licence from Croatia for the FAA ATP. Sure, his 'dual received', TT, PIC, XC, simulated/actual instrument, yes, but not his military papers. It wasn't really discussion about how to use his military licence (which isn't aeronautical experience, per se) for FAA ATP.

[zlocko2002]

actually, the I just talked to FSDO and what SASles posted is what I will try to do.
I only have to gather documentation from USAF, which will be challenging.
If I mange to get all documentation (and pass Military Competency conversions ) I can get FAA CPL IR and Mi-17 type rating. after that at least 3h of training with CFI ATP written and ATP checkride.
Inshallah :O

other option is to renew my ICAO CPL(H) validate it and get FAA PPL, then I have to do IR written, some flight training (min 3h) and IR checkride...

[awacsfe]

As of November 2011, the FAA (http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/airmen/media/test_centers.pdf ) lists Flight Safety's facilities at Farnborough and Le Bourget as authorized PSI/LaserGrade test centres. However, I spent a lot of time on the phone yesterday with PSI and they confirmed for me that they no longer have test facilities at these locations.

Given that the FAA's recent listing is seemingly inaccurate, does anyone know of anywhere else in Europe to take FAA written exams?

[Aser]

FYI,
I did my FAA ATP written in Le Bourget last summer.

[hueyracer]

I have been in contact with Flightsafety in GB (Farnborough), and they also told me that they are not taking the written exams any longer..


:=

[timprice]

I don't know what your agenda is, but Flight Safety is open for business as usual at both Farnborough and le Bourget, both flight Safety and the FAA have confirmed this.
Regards
Tim Price CFII:ok:

[hueyracer]

Thank you for your email and for your interest in FlightSafety. We do not at this time administer FAA written tests for ATPL. We are able, in some cases, to do an ATP Checkride during an initial or recurrent course (as part of or in addition to a checkride that we are giving) once the written and all other requirements are completed, but we are not authorized to do the written test. Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.

Best Regards,

Diana Clasen • Manager, Corporate Communications
FlightSafety International • 1951 Airport Road • Wichita, KS 67209
Tel: 316.220.3169 • Toll-free: 800.227.5656 • Cell: 316.519.9072 • Fax: 316.220.3239




Any more ideas are more than welcome....
Scheduling my flight to the US for June 2012.....sitting the written ATPL-H test, thereafter flying 3 hours training plus checkride (CPL), then 3 hours plus checkride (IF).......

That´s-according to all the information posted here-seems to be the ONLY way to get an FAA standalone ATPL(H).......

If anyone can get me in contact with anyone who can take the written (and possibly the checkrides, too) easier/cheaper-let me know.....

[MartinCh]

HR,

You can use your ICAO CPL as the requirement for FAA ATP, do PPL validation (61.75), add FAA IR to it (USA test passed - would be the remark on it) and then you're set for ATP checkride. If you meet the flight experience requirements for ATP ride, no point doing CPL written, checkride etc. That's what I covered indepth earlier.

What licence have you been flying on? Do you have civvy CPL?

[hueyracer]

Currently flying on my JAA-CPL(H) with IR and FI(H).

Have been told by several schools (in the US) that i HAVE to do 3 hours training BEFORE i can take the checkride.....

(I don´t mind getting some training..but don´t want to spend money unnecessarily)

[Aser]

hueyracer,
Don't you want to save time doing the written in Paris before going to the states?
Where are you going to do the checkride in the states?

Regards
Aser

[GoodGrief]

Ah, the air law exam...
§61.129 (c)(3)(iv) Three hours in a helicopter with an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test.

Once you're ready to take the test in Paris you're certainly ready to take it in the US. Paris doesn't save time and costs you a lot of money.

Where there is a flight school at an airport there is most likely a test center.
You just walk in the door, say hello and ask whether they have a computer available. You pay $130, take the test and should be out the door 90 minutes later.Sure beats flying to Paris.

[hueyracer]

I would love to do the written in Paris instead the US...

But afaik from all the comments here-i have to get my FAA PPL(H) via conversion of my CPL(H) IR before that-and therefor i have to send my conversion form to the US.

Then i´ll have to show up at a FSDO in the US to get my PPL.....afai understand i cannot do this in Europe....

And afaik the office in Paris is also run by Flightsafety....and they (see above) sent me an email, that they do not take the written FAA exam in Europe any longer.....

*confused*....

I have filled out my conversion form already-but have not sent it away, because i don´t know which FSDO in the US i should pick....
So waiting for a reply from the school i am heading to.....

Again: any help is more than welcome....

[Aser]

hueyracer,
I did my written without any validation or faa license, that's only needed for the flight part in eeuu.
Contact this lady, she was my tutor in Paris:

Pascale Vancauwenberge• FAA Tests & Assistant TSA Administrator
FlightSafety International • Paris-Le Bourget Learning Center • Zone Aviation d’Affaires • 1300 avenue de l’Europe •
BP 25 • Aéroport du Bourget • 93352 Le Bourget Cedex • France
Tel: 33-(0)1.49.92.19.19 • Fax: 33-(0)1.49.92.18.92
[email protected]

Then you will know for sure, after that it's up to you if you want to wait and do everything in eeuu.

Regards
Aser

[Um... lifting...]

When in doubt, ask the FAA. Download the Airman Knowledge Testing Center List. Link is on this page.

Pilot Testing (http://www.faa.gov/pilots/testing/)

The FARs can often be baffling. The FAA, in general, is aware of this and won't necessarily snarl at you, charge you money, or generally be jerks about it if you have a legitimate query.

If you have specific questions related to interpretation of the FARs that you can't figure out on your own, call the FAA. I'd start in AFS-810, Airmen Certification and Training Branch.

General Aviation and Commercial Division - Airmen Certification and Training Branch (http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/afs800/afs810/)

[SASless]

Hueyracer.....one comment re the three hours of training prior to the check ride.....it actually is a benefit in several ways.

You will be tested in an aircraft you have flown....thus you should be more comfortable with the location of the controls for the avionics, the equipment installed on the aircraft, the local area, local area procedures, and most importantly....the Instructor will refresh you on what you most likely will be tested on by the Examiner. Usually the third hour is a mock check ride based upon what the Examiner has done in the past with other candidates.

It is not just a way for the school to separate you from some money.

[hueyracer]

Thanks for the help, guys.....much appreciated!

As mentioned-i don´t mind getting a "preparation"-especially when keeping in mind that i am flying a "new" unknown aircraft in a different country from a different airport....

But it is a difference between "taking 2-3 hours preparation" and "you HAVE to fly 6 hours preparation".......

Thanks, guys.....

Will try to sit the written in Paris.....

[MartinCh]

HR, since you have IR(H), no need for FAA IR. You can have validation to FAA PPL with IR based on your licenses. So yes, 3hrs minimum with FAA instructor, written, checkride. It's bee mentioned that the writtens aren't done in Europe right now, for whatever reason.

As Aser mentions, if you do the checkride in non-N-reg in Europe, no need for validation. That makes sense. The whole point of doing the validation is to be able to act as PIC on N-reg aircraft (for checkride). But if you cannot do the written in the UK right now, as you yourself checked, what's the point of flying to US only for the written? The rental and US checkride would save you some cash compared to Europe, at least.

Did the FAA decision not to allow FS do the FAA written, affect Paris as well?

[hueyracer]

Still waiting for the answer from FS Paris...
But with the mail posted above -coming from the US-office of FS-i guess that there is no other possibility to sit the written anywhere else than in the US...



If i have to go overseas anyway (to sit the written), i will do the checkride (over there) in the same time...

So lying over....sit the written.....get the instruction....do the checkride....

In that case i will need the conversion first-is that right?

So i´ll apply for a conversion of my JAA CPL(H) into the FAA PPL(H) IR?

[MartinCh]

Yes, HR.

You have to be able to act as PIC during checkride on N-reg heli in the US.
Just like the Puma flying South Africans dropping in to one NW US FSDO for the same, so that they can do ATP and bugger off to Afghanistan.

It's fairly simple. Plenty info on this website, if you search of the 61.75 or piggyback foreign pilot validation. FAA website is pretty simple. Download form, fill out, print off, send copies of medical and licence. It's faster if you fax it over. In which case you'd have to make either scans (online faxing) or regular fax.

They request confirmation by post from your licence CAA, that gets back to US, they notify you that letter of verification (valid for 6 months) is waiting for you at nominated FSDO. Oh, and make sure you book the appointment, bringing docs to look at. No charge except faxing/postage unless you happen to have UK CAA papers or other country that charges cash for disclosing your info after your consent etc. In a nutshell. Simple.

I've done it twice, different licences/countries, but nowadays a person can only hold one 61.75 validation, past few years in FARs. I can play cards with my CPL, CFI, maybe later AGI/IGI, validation, but hey no more 2+ validations. Bit of farce, but so be it.

[EC155B1]

Dear Forum

Greetings

Did try other link as well but couldn't get a specific answer to my dilemma.This includes SFAR 73-1 applicability in my case.

I am interested to have my Indian ATPL(H) (ICAO approved)converted to FAA ATP and wish to avail your expertise and advice in the days ahead.

I hold the following Indian License:

ATPL(H)ICAO With IR and with endorsement as PIC on Allouette-iii, AS 315 B(LAMA),AS 365 N/N2/N3,and EC 155 B1-Current on AS 365/EC 155 with IR

CPL(A) with endorsement :Cessna-172/ATR 72-500/42-500 with IR on both.

Helicopters:PIC:2000 Hrs(approx) Total:4750 Hrs ME PIC: 500 hrs IFR:(actual and simulator):450 hrs,Night Hrs:250hrs(approx)
Aircrafts:PIC:130hrs Total: 225 hrs(approx)

Wish to have my FAA ATP on helicopters on Priority.FAA CPL(A)/ATP can wait if it is not advisable to have both at one go.

I do have current class-1 medical both Indian as well as Nigerian.

Request advice if any body has a first hand experience or link me to some one who does it.

Regards

[EC155B1]

Folks

What I understood from the thread all over is that to get FAA ATP Commercial helicopter from a foreign License(In my case its Icao ATPL(H))is that I need to go through the following"

1)First get your school fixed up in USA for your familiarization and followed by check ride.

2)Fill up the airman certificate and get your foreign license and medical verified and have the letter issued from the local FSDO.

3)Then appear for your exam FAA ATP at the selected school.

4) On arrival get a FAA PPL issued based on your ICAO ATP.

5)Get minimum of 10 hrs to meet the requirement of SFAR 73-1.

6)Appear for the FAA ATP Check ride which may take 2 hrs to finish.

7)Get the paper submitted and receive the temp FAA certificate.

8)Head back home and wait for the Original FAA ATP to arrive at your address.

Well I have few questions:since this is first case in this forum(probably)appearing on FAA ATP helicopter ,need few clarification or better understanding of the rule if any one has in this forum.

1)Do I need to have a FAA Medical before appearing for the check ride?

2)Does this 10 hrs of familiarization flight on R 22/44 essential or sacrosanct?I intend to have my check ride on R-22/44 to reduce cost(No prior exp on R-22/44)

3)Do I need to have a FAA PPL issued on the day of arrival based in my current ICAO ATP?

4)What short of VISA do i require to apply for?M1 or a tourist?

5)Incase the FAA medical is not require(Since Icao Medical is currentand verified)) then can I enjoy the privileges of FAA ATP commercial?

6) Any better suggestion or input from you friends to achieve a better deal in terms of Money,time, hassles and running around?

7)Any school in USA already doing this stuff in a professional and transparent manner ?

8)Is this converted FAA ATP has any difference from a FAA ATP in terms of privileges?

Thanx

[hueyracer]

I might be able to help you on some of your questions (as i went this route last year myself)...

1)Do I need to have a FAA Medical before appearing for the check ride?
Yes-unless you do the checkride in the simulator, you need to have a valid FAA medical (not necessarily class 1, though)


2)Does this 10 hrs of familiarization flight on R 22/44 essential or sacrosanct?I intend to have my check ride on R-22/44 to reduce cost(No prior exp on R-22/44)
Have never flown Robinsons, so did not go this way.
Chose a school that operates H300-and was more than happy with that.
I took 5 hours including the checkride (ATPL(H) )...
Was ready for check after two-took the 3rd hour just for the fun of it (and because it was cheap)...


3)Do I need to have a FAA PPL issued on the day of arrival based in my current ICAO ATP?
No. You only need the validation letter.

4)What short of VISA do i require to apply for?M1 or a tourist?
Can´t help you there-Germany is on the "Visa waiver list"..

5)Incase the FAA medical is not require(Since Icao Medical is currentand verified)) then can I enjoy the privileges of FAA ATP commercial?
See above. No medical, no flying.

6) Any better suggestion or input from you friends to achieve a better deal in terms of Money,time, hassles and running around?
I did a lot of research-and still find that the school i picked was the cheapest (and best) solution for me....PM me for details..


7)Any school in USA already doing this stuff in a professional and transparent manner ?

See above...

8)Is this converted FAA ATP has any difference from a FAA ATP in terms of privileges?
No.
You will not get a "converted" license.
You can only convert your license into a PPL.
What you intend to do will end in a FAA "standalone" license, that is not different from any other ATPL(H) issued by the FAA...

[GoodGrief]

4)What short of VISA do i require to apply for?M1 or a tourist?
Can´t help you there-Germany is on the "Visa waiver list"..

How did that work out? I had to get an M Visa, as flight training is not allowed on tourist status. Was I misinformed?
And what about TSA since you did not have PPL and IFR under US law?

[hueyracer]

I did not do "flight training"-for my conversion, i only "needed" to do a checkride...

So officially-no training.....

You can fly around with an Instructor sitting next to you...no problem...
I asked the FAA before i flew to the US-and their answer was:
"To do the ATPL(H) checkride, you do not need to apply for a PPL(H) before"....

[tottigol]

I did the same back in '96.
Pick a flight school, talk to them and explain the situation they will be happy to help you.
I picked a flight school that was using 300s, as I had some experience in that trainer.
Bring your national licenses and logbooks.
You may need to set a date with a DPE if they do not have one on staff, they'll be able to refer you to a DPE.
In case you have not taken the written you'll need to take one to get an endorsement.
You'll need a valid FAA Pt 67 flight physical to take your checkride.
The school will normally have you fly with one of their instructors first to make sure you are not selling vapor, one or two flights ought to be enough.
After you pass your checkride, the DPE or FAA Inspector shall issue you a temporary airman certificate that is valid for 120 days.
You cannot use that license to fly in the USA for hire unless you have a valid work permit.
Any more questions fell fre to PM me.

[GoodGrief]

Strange.I came in for an ATP check with FAA COM/IFR/CFI and the big outfit in Florida made me get an M visa. No Visa, no ATP.:ugh:

[tottigol]

GG, how long ago was that?

[GoodGrief]

2011......

[tottigol]

Lots of changes since those two planes hit the twin towers.

[GoodGrief]

Well, hueyracer did his in 2012.

[MartinCh]

btw,
TSA have since specified that 'initial' is the FIRST FULL FAA/standalone FAA certificate/rating, not strictly PPL, so even for ATP, the TSA should have been done. Well, if someone gets away with it on the basis of not knowing or being misinformed, but it's in the FAQs of TSA website past year or 3. Getting cross with TSA for some is more feared than immigration or challenging some regs with FAA.

hueyracer, so, if you didn't have validation/piggyback PPL issued, only verification letter stating that your credentials are genuine, did you fly with examiner on student solo sign-off and the DPE was the PIC for the flight?

[Thorond0r]

Hello y'all,

I´m a holder of an EASA unrestricted ATPL(H) and I want to get the FAA ATPL, mainly for CV reasons: I´ve found some O&G producer countries who accept the FAA but don´t accept EASA and would like to open my range of opportunities.

I am willing to cross the pond and get it done in my OFF days. Anybody whose already done it? Where? Is Florida a good choice? I know there are many Flight Schools (and I´ve not heard good feedback about some). Is it possible to do it in Europe?

Any imput appreciated,

Thorond0r