Why Has BA Got a Deathwish?

[Capot]

I have lost an eticket which I need to support an expenses invoice, and it has disappeared from my emails. My fault, I'm sure, but let's see if BA can help with a copy. A session on the BA website tells me that I cannot access the booking record post-flight.

So I ring BA reservation and ticketing enquiries today at 2.30 or so. I select Option 5, "all other enquiries", as the best fit for my enquiry. I could at this point be a customer wanting to ask about a round-the-world 1st Class reservation for a family. I get short shrift from BA; a female voice, in a tone of admonishment for calling at all, says "Due to the high volume of enquiries we are very busy, we suggest you use our website." Click. I'm paraphrasing, but not much. That auto-response, used 24/7 now by so many companies (and HMRC) as a means of demonstrating their contempt for their customers, is possibly the most irritating of all the irritations committed by call-centres.

"I've just spent 30 minutes getting nowhere on your effin website, you moron, that's the reason I'm now watching my life ebb away on your call-centre."

I then try Option 4, "enquires about a flight you have taken". After making a further menu selection, I am briskly informed that BA is closed. Click.

I simply cannot understand why BA regards itself as a global business. I would like to meet the overpaid idiot who thinks that this is a good way to treat potential customers. I am not one of those (in this instance), but I might have been, and if so I would by now have gone elsewhere.

[fincastle84]

I think that you'll find that if you phone on Monday morning that your request will be met. Right now the call centre staff are having to concentrate on rescheduling several thousands of pax because LHR is cancelling 1/3 of Sunday's flights because of the snow threat.

A little patience is sometimes a great cure..........ancient Chinese proverb.:ok:

[Capot]

fincastle

Superficially, that's a reasonable attitude. Until you think about it.

In emergency circumstances just like those, the one thing any good airline would ensure is that passengers with a problem can get in touch, quickly and to the right person. The call centre staff should not have been doing all the rescheduling, or contacting affected passengers. If they were, then no wonder the system collapsed.

There needed to be another large team called in to do all that, freeing the call-centre to deal with people calling in.

There can be no excuse whatsoever for letting things get so bad that callers are simply cut off either because "we are too busy to talk to you, no matter what you need" or, worse, "we are closed until Monday".

If BA's management has neither the resources or the ability to organise that at short notice and at unsociable hours, what BA needs is new management.

[airsmiles]

As a long-term, regular and generally supportive user of BA I can honestly say the call centre is BA achille's heel (the T4 baggage reclaim problems now behind them). Many, many times over the years I've found the service and plain usefulness of the call centre 'adequate' to 'useless'. If they could solve this one I'd fly then at every opportunity. As it is, when they p#ss me off, I try someone else for a while.

They're not alone in this respect, but they've had an opportunity to raise their standard against competitor's offerings for a long time and missed the opportunity.

[strake]

What you need to do is be part of one of the large corporations who has a bulk ticketing deal with BA (or VS or AA etc). Each deal is worth many millions and receives extremely good support from a dedicated account management team. If you are a senior executive in one of these companies, you will also personally receive the highest level of membership to the executive club and your own, personal account manager. I know this, because I used to be in such a lucky position.
I'm not any more so if I have a problem, like you and about 55% of the rest of the travelling public, I'm ******.
That's the way it is...

[frontcheck]

This is one of the drawbacks of automation. There are less staff trained and available to assit during mass cancellations like today. BA do not have staff sitting around waiting to be called in for such an event. I agree it is bad customer service but work has to be prioritised. Which is more urgent, someone on a cancelled flight needing to be re-routed or someone who has completed their travel and requires a duplicate eticket receipt?

[Capot]

they've had an opportunity to raise their standard against competitor's offerings It appears that the ambition of all large monolithic organisations, eg retail banks as well as BA, is to not be worse than any competitor, rather than to be better than any competitor. How often have we been told; "Well, it's just the same with all the others, you know." The inevitable consequence of this mindset, which I'm sure is taught to MBAs as the right way to approach the subject because it's the least expensive, is a depressing downward spiral of mediocrity.

That's the way it is... Ah, the "twaz ever thus" response. It does not have to be that way. It can be better, but only if everyone simply refuses to accept it, makes trouble, is rude, loses their temper, and generally behaves badly when confronted with appalling service and attitudes from those who take your money. (Sort out the grammar in that sentence if you can.)

BA do not have staff sitting around waiting to be called in for such an eventOh yes they do. They're called managers, off-duty staff, temps, whatever it takes to get things done. If a manager cannot do the job of everyone under his or her control he or she is by definition useless. Planning for such emergencies means practising for them, training the extra staff, whatever it takes to provide a good service. Massive disruptions to flights happen regularly and there is no excuse for not being prepared to deal with them properly.

[PAXboy]

Once a place of work has got into bad habits - changing it's tune is nigh impossible. This applies to a charity, a political party or a call centre.

But you cannot just drop the people who are no good and hire new. Not least as some of the people making those decisons are also no good! If the place is perceived to be doing what the Board ask of it? Then nothing will change. Even if they want it to change, the work atmosphere and ethic in the place will have almost a stranglehold on it.

Lastly, we have oft spoken in here about the shortcomings of BA mgmt. Guess who manages the call centres ... :suspect: :*

[frontcheck]

Good ideas Capot, but I think you are living in another world.

[TSR2]

This thread started with:

I have lost an eticket which I need to support an expenses invoice

As lost or mislaid receipts are a reasonably common occurence, surely your company must have a system to deal with this?

[PAXboy]

Speaking from bitter experience, the corporate company 'system' to deal with a lost receipt is: 'Tough. No receipt = no reimbursment.' :=

[11Fan]

Have you checked to see if it is in your E-mail Deleted folder? I've been lucky before in that regard. Also, maybe check Recently opened Items, depending on your operating system of course.

Good luck

[edi_local]

No way of bringing it up through the BA Exec club history (if you are a member)? Failing that, would that record not be proof of the flights anyway, coupled with a statement showing the money being taken from a bank account (presumably the bank statement would say something to do with BA).

Also, you're point about getting extra staff in. First of all, if they're on a day off then good luck getting someone in...a minimum time is needed for the work to change someones shifts, usually 72 hours. Yes, they could have been prepared and thought ahead, but they can't just ring people up and expect them to come in at the drop of a hat. Also, many staff may be struggling to get into work because of the weather in the first place!

[airsmiles]

Did you pay by credit card? Can you get a copy via the Credit Card company?

[fincastle84]

Oh yes they do. They're called managers, off-duty staff, temps, whatever it takes to get things done. If a manager cannot do the job of everyone under his or her control he or she is by definition useless. Planning for such emergencies means practising for them, training the extra staff, whatever it takes to provide a good service. Massive disruptions to flights happen regularly and there is no excuse for not being prepared to deal with them properly.

Out of interest I just called BA. The recorded message states that they're very busy assisting pax who have been delayed/ cancelled by the snow. Anyone with "NON ESSENTIAL" queries are asked to call back in a few days time.

Surely a misplaced eticket comes under the "non essential" category, particularly as I'm not aware that many companies' accounts departments are open over a weekend!!

I hope that we're eventually informed by Capot just how long it takes for the claim to be settled & the procedure BA uses when someone forgetfully loses an eticket.

[Skipness One Echo]

Would it be really so impossible to go back to what they used to have? UK based call centre open during daylight with calls transferred to New York out of those hours. Worked really well and considering the sheer bloody hassle the lack of contact causes, a god send to the customer.

We surely acknowledge that some costs absolutely must be stripped out and removed but you begin to look stupid when you go too far.

[PAXboy]

In my 27 years in telecommunications (specialising in PBX voice systems and call centres) no company knows that they've cut too much - until they've cut too much. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/worry.gif

That's because the demand for more savings is never ending and THAT is because in modern companies, the people at the top have not worked their way up and do not have a complete picture of how the company works.

Secondly, 'execs' tend to have been shielded from call centres and the like for many years by secretaries, agents and (often) their spouse! So they REALLY don't know what the day to day experience is. :hmm:

[GrahamO]

Photoshop ...... its not as if they are going to bother to check is it ?

[fincastle84]

I'm sorry, but aren't we missing the point. I don't think it's realistic to expect every business & government department to supply 24/7 telephone support just because a customer is negligent in managing their affairs.

The BA department handling these matters is open between 0900-1700 daily, Monday to Friday. I can see nothing wrong with that. I tried to get through to DVLA today.................now that's a real challenge.

[radeng]

Even worse is the baggage tracing service: it is not even, to quote I. K. Brunel, 'tolerably useless'.

[Skipness One Echo]

The BA department handling these matters is open between 0900-1700 daily, Monday to Friday.

They fly 24/7, things go wrong 24/7, they used to have this service 24/7. It's not impossible in a global business to have proper coverage.

[13Alpha]

I'm sorry, but aren't we missing the point. I don't think it's realistic to expect every business & government department to supply 24/7 telephone support just because a customer is negligent in managing their affairs.


I don't think the original poster was asking for every business & government department to supply 24/7 support, he was asking that BA did.

And as the OP mentioned, BA's call centre response would have been the same regardless of whether he was phoning with a minor, self-inflicted problem, or if he had been a premium ticketholder stranded in some remote airport.

While BA's service onboard can be very, very good, its customer service on the ground, and particularly on the telephone is often very, very poor. Whatever the reason for your contact. Whether you are a one flight a year low-life, or an EC gold card holder.

The defence of "but you should expect poor service when something big is going wrong" is, frankly, pathetic, given how often "something big" goes wrong in BA and in the aviation business. Snow and fog happen every winter. Airports close, for some reason, whether it be due to weather, or volcanoes, or security incidents, every year. Industrial disputes (not always involving BA) affect flights on a regular basis. Heathrow as an airport is permanently teetering on the brink of chaos. BA should be able to cope with flight disruption far better than it does.

Many individuals within BA really care about customers, but collectively, the organisation often fails to deliver on customer service and support. Running a big airline is about a lot more than just flying planes.

There was a time when BA was my default choice of airline. Now it's just one of the crowd. That's not down to the service on board - although some Heathrow cabin crews have been particularly sour-faced lately. It's down to the whole end-to-end experience, including how the company deals with "unexpected" problems.

[Ancient Observer]

One of the issues with some of BA's "customer" service agents, and their managers, is that they believe that they still are a Government agency.

[ExXB]

Many individuals within BA really care about customers, but collectively, the organisation often fails to deliver on customer service and support. Running a big airline is about a lot more than just flying planes.

There was a time when BA was my default choice of airline. Now it's just one of the crowd. That's not down to the service on board - although some Heathrow cabin crews have been particularly sour-faced lately. It's down to the whole end-to-end experience, including how the company deals with "unexpected" problems. :ok:

I left BA (EC Gold at the time) due to their call centre's poor handling of a reroute the day before one of their strikes. I won't boar you with the details but this, and the crappy (non) follow-up by their (non) customer service, means I haven't flown them with a revenue ticket since. (I did burn through my miles though) :E

And from the comments on this thread, I see no reason for going back either.

[fincastle84]

:ok::ok:Well after reading all these negative comments, I'll just have to count my lucky stars that I've always received 100% customer service from all of the BA staff with whom I have had contact, whether by phone, internet or face to face, on the ground & in the air.

It's a shame that we still haven't heard from Capot as to whether or not he managed to get BA to sort out his forgetfulness.

I'm backing BA. :ok:

[YorkshireTyke]

......That's because the demand for more savings is never ending and .....


Many moons ago I remember a BA pilot telling me that when he was promoted to Captain he first had to undergo an indoctrination course, where they were educated about the running of various departments of the company and passenger handling. Part of this Touchy/Feely-All-Pals-Together course involved running a mythical marketing exercise, and my pal told me that they came up with ideas that, they claimed, would make the airline 10% better than the competition.

We don't want to be 10% better than the competition, said the Marketing Moguls, that would cost money, we only need to be 1% better - a much easier, and financially manageable, target.

Says it all, really.

[radeng]

The whole business with snow and airports reminds me of a comment of W.S. Gilbert.

'Although Saturdays come round with amazing regularity, they still seem to catch the Metropolitan Railway by surprise'.

The same for both BA and BAA.

In BA's case, it's the crap back office staff that let it down -plus stupid rules. It proved cheaper for me to cancel a ticket and lose the original fare and buy a new one in a higher class than to take the upgrade they offered.

[PAXboy]

YorkshireTyke That is a SUPERB example of our times and thanks radeng for summing it up in one line.

Sadly, truly sadly, BA + BAA are just two examples of the many that function in this way. It is symptomatic of why the UK is in the dwang. (self explanatory South African slang!)

I have just (5 mins ago) completed a 'customer satisfaction survey' from my mobile phone supplier. I made it plain that their network is good but the customer service is poor. Their rates are not as good as the competition and their website where I can manage my account and see what has been happening/change things, is not as good as the competition. Consider that, as a business, mobile phone companies have only existed in the UK since 1985 and you can see how quickly they have moved form being the best to an also ran. They have had my business for over 15 years but are within an ace of losing it. That is modern management for you.

[airsmiles]

A few days before returning from the USA home to the UK I tried to upgrade using some of my points using the website. Not allowed so the website says and suggested I ring a number. As I'm very deaf that's not a good option for me, so I e-mailed. Response : we'll be in touch within 14 days!

Okay, so I take my chances and try and do the upgrade at Atlanta airport. I can't upgrade using points there either. However the check in guy gives a deal on a cash option (too expensive for me), but then swaps my existing seat so that I'm not sitting next to anyone else.

At the gate, I explain I don't hear announcements so could they give me the nod when it's time to board. Not content with that, they decide to let me board after the First/Business passengers, but ahead of the general boarding.

My point being parts of BA are great but try and raise any form of customer service query, even in Executive Club, and they're generally appalling. I think it's must be because they don't actually have to meet the customer, so they think they can get away with it?

[PAXboy]

Don't forget that the modern style is to break the company up into separate pieces. The idea is that each department will then try and do it's best - but they forget that they are part of a process. If each dept is succeeding on it's own terms then they can ignore the departments before and after them in the sequence.

That's the short explanation, it's complicated by multiple managers all reporting that they are doing brilliantly and no one having overall control - at an operational level. The company is too large for anyone to hold it together and that is the curse of EVERY company, charity, govt that gets too big and old. Look at the USA still clinging to the idea of having one person as head of all the tribes? That won't last. The only way for big companies and govts is down - even as the mgmt produce pretty graphs to show how well they are doing. :rolleyes:

I've been in mega global corporations and seen it at first hand.