God speed to the crew of VH-COK

[Ultralights]

sadly today, the crew of VH-COK were killed today at Jaspers brush.
Its quite a sobering experience when the aircraft departing behind you doesn't make it..
Rest in Piece. :{

[forever flying]

It's breaking news on Channel 10 at the moment. R44 crash after takeoff on it's way to film a documentary on Jervis Bay.
RIP to the crew, hope you're okay UL :(

[Ultralights]

im ok, just that utterly helpless feeling , but sadly the accident was witnessed by all the guys at Jaspers including a few small children. :(

[criticalmass]

Very sad news. Two professionals who were just doing their job will not go home to their families tonight. My most sincere condolences to all. :(

[Sunfish]

A person allegedly passed up the job because it involved a 100kg 3D camera mount in the executive producers private R44.

[mickjoebill]

A person allegedly passed up the job because it involved a 100kg 3D camera mount in the executive producers private R44.

Some reports refer to it being a recce flight.
If so hand held camera could be used for reference.

edit
South Coast Register reports that Cr Bennett who was an eyewitness, said they were to shoot a marine vessel in Jervis Bay.
James Cameron was on scene after the crash.


Mickjoebill

[havick]

Who's AOC were they operating under?

[Brian Abraham]

Registered operator as of 22 September 2005 BANKSTOWN HELICOPTERS PTY LIMITED, registration holder GREAT WIGHT PRODUCTIONS PTY LTD.

[VH-XXX]

The crash sequence was filmed and the video has been handed to the authorities.

[Sunfish]

The ATSB should interview the cameraman who passed up the booked job Two hours before the accident.

When he saw that it was only an R44 and that it was going to have to carry a 100Kg 3D camera mount plus his not inconsiderable bulk, plus heavy professional cameras and the usual gear, and it was to be flown by the Executive Producer, he bailed, and was abused as a wus by the EP, who then hired another guy at short notice.

If he hadn't, we would have been child minding next week while others attended his funeral.

Bloody tragedy for all concerned.

[Ultralights]

I taxied past the R44 just before the fateful incident, I did not see anything mounted externally on the aircraft, or the guys lugging around any camera equipment at all, just waved to the guys as they climbed aboard, they were wearing floatation devices, nothing out of the ordinary to suggest weight might have been an issue.

[VH-XXX]

Sunfish always likes to be the one with the conspiracy theory....

[mickjoebill]

I taxied past the R44 just before the fateful incident, I did not see anything mounted externally on the aircraft, or the guys lugging around any camera equipment at all, just waved to the guys as they climbed aboard, they were wearing floatation devices, nothing out of the ordinary to suggest weight might have been an issue.


Which seat did the passenger occupy?


Mickjoebill

[Sunfish]

xxx:

Sunfish always likes to be the one with the conspiracy theory....

It aint theory. Thats a friends direct experience. He and some others have made a pact about refusing dangerous assignments - and doing professional video from a piston single helicopter is classed as just that. Too many cameramen have died in helicopter accidents.

I wouldn't know if the guy Wight hired had the heavy professional camera gear that would have necessitated the mount that *** was told to use.

[mickjoebill]

I wouldn't know if the guy Wight hired had the heavy professional camera gear that would have necessitated the mount that *** was told to use.

We are not going to get any more clarity about this allegation unless *** makes a statement to the investigation team, as there are scenarios where *** claim and those of eyewitnesses could both be true.

Andrew Wight a few weeks ago opened a production and facility office in Melbourne for James Camerons production company. The company will specialise in providing crew cameras and management of 3d productions. So plenty of chunky camera kit available in house at short notice.

Some scenarios
Heavy kit could have been installed on the rear seats, unseen by passing aircraft.
They could have been flying off to install kit being used by a ground crew.
They could have been using a very compact lightweight 3d setup (smaller than a news camcorder)
They could have been using a 15kg camera head with trailing cables to 50kg of kit.
ect ect

Plenty of options, including simply doing a recce flight with a small camera.

The team were working for Discovery Channel with an involvement by James Cameron who arrived at the accident site. JCs involvement will generate all kinds of noise.
The pilots website states he held a CPL.

ATSB report
Investigation: AO-2012-021 - Collision with terrain - Robinson R44, VH-COK, Jaspers Brush, NSW, 4 February 2012 (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2012/aair/ao-2012-021.aspx)




Mickjoebill

[Sunfish]

I think you will find the cameraman concerned will be interviewed by ATSB.

I do not know if the cause was weight related, weight may have nothing to do with it, all I know is that he pulled the pin when he saw it was an R44 piloted by the executive producer. According to him, it was going to be too cramped for him to work well, and the gear he was to use was heavy.

Both this guy and another one I know are Award winning ACS members and do a fair amount of aerial work from time to time and they have decided to refuse some of what they consider to be the more dangerous requests that are routinely made to camera men.

Their view is that you really want a turbine, preferably a Twin turbine with a professional pilot, with a bit of room to get good results in safety.

[VH-XXX]

Their view is that you really want a turbine, preferably a Twin turbine with a professional pilot, with a bit of room to get good results in safety.

Based on ABC crash of 2011 we all know that is not the case either.

Interestingly, the first twin engined helicopter crash in Australia since the mid 80's.

[havick]

Based on ABC crash of 2011 we all know that is not the case either.

XXX, not necessarily correct.. A few assumptions there.

[VH-XXX]

XXX, not necessarily correct.. A few assumptions there.


Yes.

I was disagreeing with the statement that a twin turbine and a professional pilot results in safety.

Their view is that you really want a turbine, preferably a Twin turbine with a professional pilot, with a bit of room to get good results in safety.

It doesn't.

[havick]

XXX, still not quite what I was getting at but I'd rather not go on about the ABC crash.

[motzartmerv]

Sunfish, i know people often talk sh!t on this site. But mate, you take the cake. Every thing you said above was bullsh!t.
The camera was not 100 kilos, it was 25. How do I know?..Because I held it just before he loaded in.I didn't hear this from old mate down the road..
The flight was not a last minute thing, it was well planned..how do I know?.. because I was in correspondence with them 2 weeks before the accident.Again, not hearsay, cold hard facts my friend.
A squirrel was to do the big camera shots, but due to weather, the delay made it unavailable on the day.
The guy that wight hired??...you Nob, Mike and Wight have worked together on numerous assignments. You think he organised the worlds top renowned camera man after your buddy said no?...your buddy needs to stop flattering himself.

It was a horrific accident, and something I will spend the rest of my life trying to forget, it doesn't help to open up a website such as this and see absolute crapp being propagated by ill-informed tossas.

Hang your head in shame. Poor form mate, poor poor form..

[Trojan1981]

Thanks for clarifying Motz. I understand you were very close to these events. How is everyone coping down there?

[Dangly Bits]

Thanks Motz. I was too furious to respond. Fiona not only lost her soul mate, but also the father of her new baby. I'm still numb.

Dangly.

[motzartmerv]

Troj, thanx mate. Everyone is holding together, just. My main concern at the moment is making sure my crew are ok and receiving all the help we can arrange for them. Aswel we are doing all we can to assure the families dont have to be subjected to crap like sunfish has sprooked on this site and ill-informed news reports.
The video is safe in the hands of the guy that filmed it and thats where it will stay.The ATSB have a copy, aswel as the insurance company. But thats it.

Dangly. Im sorry you have to read rubbish like this. Give our sincerest love and condolences to Fiona and every one else close to Andrew and Mike. PM me if any of you want to speak to me, ill give you my number.

cheers

[Homesick-Angel]

Condolences to all involved up there in what is no doubt a tight knit community of aviators , and Motz, that is the best retort (b1tch slap) I've read here, and well deserved from the sound of it. I'm not sure id have been as refined as you..:ok:

Yes this is a rumor network, but if flat out untruth's are going to be harmful to families and friends of the recently departed, or be used in the media to create bullsh1t, then maybe we all have a responsibility to just pull our heads in a little and just say what we actually know, not what we think we know. The rumor part of PPrune is only of use if we are all going to discuss and learn. That's healthy, anything else is just crap.

The culture of one-upmanship and knowitalism in this site seems to grow with fatal accidents.. Is it a possibility that's the best time to be showing just a little restraint and respect?

[Its the Pleats]

Any response from Sunfish? Hello?

[Flying Binghi]

via Homesick-Angel; ...The rumor part of PPRuNe is only of use if we are all going to discuss and learn. That's healthy, anything else is just crap.


Hmmm... probably better to wait fer the factual accident report before the "discuss and learn" bit..:hmm:





.

[Sunfish]

Motzartmerv:

Sunfish, i know people often talk sh!t on this site. But mate, you take the cake. Every thing you said above was bullsh!t.
The camera was not 100 kilos, it was 25. How do I know?..Because I held it just before he loaded in.I didn't hear this from old mate down the road..
The flight was not a last minute thing, it was well planned..how do I know?.. because I was in correspondence with them 2 weeks before the accident.Again, not hearsay, cold hard facts my friend.
A squirrel was to do the big camera shots, but due to weather, the delay made it unavailable on the day.
The guy that wight hired??...you Nob, Mike and Wight have worked together on numerous assignments. You think he organised the worlds top renowned camera man after your buddy said no?...your buddy needs to stop flattering himself.

It was a horrific accident, and something I will spend the rest of my life trying to forget, it doesn't help to open up a website such as this and see absolute crapp being propagated by ill-informed tossas.

Hang your head in shame. Poor form mate, poor poor form..

Except it ain't crapp (sic) - and if you knew so much, you would probably know who was originally booked for the job. Of course it was planned, camera people of the calibre Wight uses don't get out of bed for under $1000.

This is the verbatim text of the SMS I received after a very worried Thirty minutes trying to get in touch to confirm a certain person was alive:

""***** was supposed to shoot the aerials in Jervis Bay this morn, He didn't want to do it coz(sic) it was a 100kg. 3D rig in the EP's private Robo (sic) 44 chopper. 2 hours later the other camo got in & it crashed. Spooky"

**** didn't know it was an R44 until he got there and when he saw how cramped things were going to be and what was being asked, he pulled the pin. Andrew Wight of course was upset and called him a wus, then obviously got the other guy at short notice. That information is from an explanatory phone call.

Furthermore, if you knew anything about the film industry, you would know that the camera is usually rented, or may belong to the Cameraman, so that the camera and rig you saw most probably was not be the one that *** had planned to use, because the camera and rig is almost always arranged by, and arrives and leaves with, the camera man.

Your revelation that the photography was planned to be done from a Squirrel would explain why *** turned up with a "100kg" 3D rig and all the trimmings and was dismayed only to find an R44.

I have no idea what caused this accident but I stand by what I said - an extremely experienced and award winning camera person with plenty of helicopter experience bailed Two hours before the sad event. Whether that is just luck on his part - perhaps because he felt he couldn't produce professional results from an R44, or some Sixth sense, I wouldn't know.

Both he and his best mate decided some time ago to pass up what they consider to be less than optimum working conditions - this case was one of them.

To put that another way, how do you think all those wonderful aerial, action and underwater camera shots get made? That's right, some professional is in a helicopter, or on the back of a moving truck, or Ten fathoms underwater, or Sixty feet up on a crane. You would be amazed at the risks these camera guys are routinely asked to take. At least Two cameramen have decided to be a little more careful than others.

[Urshtnme]

Unfortunately some people just don't know when to give up. Sunfish, just let it go and have some respect for those lost and those who were there. If you have any ounce of respect, just let it go will you.

Merv, thoughts are with you all who were there on the day. Hang in there mate.

[Sunfish]

...you want to accuse someone of talking crap and I'm supposed to let it go?

Sad accident, but I simply made the point that another cameraman had refused the job - which is fact.

I wouldn't know if there is any causal relationship between that event and the accident or not.

[motzartmerv]

Sunfish.

Your mate may have been booked to do something at some stage, but id like to know how he turned down the job 2 hours before the event, when two hours before the event the crew of VH-COK were sitting on our clubhouse verandah having coffee.How the @#$# was he there calling your friend a wus mate??..the choppa departed from wedderburn, not bankstown..was your mate at wedderburn??..no..Pull your head in .Why on earth you would make statements that anyone said something when they aren't around to defend themselves is beyond me. Id like to know how the same crew and aircraft got held up at wedderburn on the thursday before due wx, and then arranged a car ride to Jaspers Brush where they hung out for the day. How does your mate figure into this? And more importantly, who cares.
Short notice my ass. Mike came over from the USA for the job.
You or your mate have been sprung in an open public forum talking through your ass, and having no decency what so ever.

I find it pretty offensive that people try and tie themselves some how to such a tragedy, for reasons only they can know. Go and get some psychiatric help mate and get to the bottom of why you would use such an even to draw attention to yourself when so many people are still in shock and grieving.

Have some respect for the families mate. You are not an ATSB investigator. Let those that have the FACTS do their jobs, but more importantly, let the families grieve in peace.

Im glad your mate was not involved, and im glad he has decided not to take on dangerous assignments. But that does not relate to this accident. I have been involved with aviation for 17 years, and I saw nothing to indicate this operation was unsafe in any way.

[Tidbinbilla]

You guys should take your discussion up via PM.

This thread has run its course.