Super Connie at Faro

[Peter-RB]

This picture was taken about 1981/2 when returning from Faro, I was told it was going to be converted into a posh eating spot, does anyone else know more about this A/C
PeterR-B


http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p491/PeterDRB/SuperConstelallationAtFaro.jpg

[JW411]

c/n 4616: Originally CS-TLA with TAP. Sold and marked with the spurious registration 5N-83H for its role as a Biafran gun-runner. Then to Faro.

It was badly damaged in an arson attack and I don't think there is anything left?

[Spooky 2]

Also, it's not a Super Connie but rather a 049,649 or 749 series.

[JW411]

Sorry sir, you are wrong. c/n 4616 was a Super Constellation L1049G. It was delivered as an L1049G-82-81 and was later modified to L1049G-82-123 standard. No pure Constellations ever appeared on the Portuguese register.

[Peter-RB]

Thank you for that info
What a waste of a absolutely gorgeous aircraft, its like a piece of art, or

well flying that , could be like dancing with a voluptuous women, how sad that its gone..

Peter R-B :{

[Proplinerman]

Completely destroyed and gone now-it was a restaurant for some years. A great shame.

[Proplinerman]

And looking again at that photo and the discussion above re whether it's a standard Connie or a Super, I'm puzzled. All references to a Connie at Faro make it clear the aircraft was a Super-see this photo:

http://tinyurl.com/7q3tnn5

But the aircraft pictured by Peter-RB is not a Super Connie: just look at the cockpit windows; and the cabin windows are round, not rectangular, as they would be on a Super. ie, it's a L-049/647/749. Can anyone shed any light on this?

[Groundloop]

I am also slightly doubtful about the date. I don't think there were any BA Tridents still with red wings by 81/82.

[l.garey]

It seems the cockpit and nose of CS-TLA were preserved. However, the photo by Peter is not this aircraft.

Planepictures.net search: Registration: CS-TLA (http://www.planepictures.net/netsearch4.cgi?srch=CS-TLA&srng=2&stype=reg)

Laurence

[JW411]

Spooky2:

I do believe that I might owe you an apology. Having had a closer look at the rather poor-quality photograph, I agree that it shows a standard Connie (the cockpit windows are the clincher for me).

Now, we know that the Faro Super Constellation was indeed c/n 4616 CS-TLA and I know that it was an L-1049 for I saw it many, many times and Proplinerman's photograph confirms this.

So now we are back to Peter-RB's original photo. I am now wondering if this could be:

c/n: 2660 L-649-79-60 which was originally N86524 with Chicago and Southern. This aircraft ended up with the (spurious) registration 5N-86H and it was used by the Biafran government. My Air-Britain bible tells me that:

"It flew Biafran leader Colonel Ojuwku from Uli, Biafra on 10 Jan 70 to exile in Abidjan, Ivory Coast. It departed Abidjan for Faro on 12 Jan 70 and was stored there..............In late 1972, Jack A Crosson took over ownership of the aircraft as payment for money owed to him by Concare and also paid the parking fees owed to Faro airport. It was restored to the USCAR by Mar 73 as N86524. Work was undertaken on an occasional basis on the restoration of the aircraft up till at least May 74. The aircraft was then abandoned and became Faro airport property. In approximately Dec 77, the aircraft was purchased by Air International Inc (LW Dreyer) and was scrapped for spares during the first few months of 1978. The fuselage was sold to Jose Rodrigues Catarno of Vale de America, Faro on 6 Feb 78. Fuselage was still at Faro in July 79 and was broken up by Nov 79."

So, I reckon that Peter-RB must have taken his photograph between the end of 1977/beginning of 1978.

So this was NOT the Faro restaurant Connie. That was c/n 4616.

Once again, I must apologise to Spooky2. I should have been more careful.

[Proplinerman]

I'm sure you've got to the bottom of this now JW411-thanks very much.

[Liffy 1M]

I was at Faro In September 1981 and by then there were just some fuselage sections of the L-649 lying on the airfield. The Super Connie was looking great, though, as part of the "Super G" bar/restaurant as seen in these photos that I took at the time. I think some Connie parts, such as elevators, were also displayed inside the small bar building as "art", or maybe part of the counter structure.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7026/6775188707_b8043dd99d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24101413@N03/6775188707/)
5N-83H / CS-TLA L-1049G Super Constellation (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24101413@N03/6775188707/) by Irish251 (http://www.flickr.com/people/24101413@N03/), on Flickr
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7004/6775188399_4cb11c6469_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24101413@N03/6775188399/)
5N-83H / CS-TLA L-1049G Super Constellation (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24101413@N03/6775188399/) by Irish251 (http://www.flickr.com/people/24101413@N03/), on Flickr
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7165/6775188555_2507aa1f21_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24101413@N03/6775188555/)
5N-83H / CS-TLA L-1049G Super Constellation (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24101413@N03/6775188555/) by Irish251 (http://www.flickr.com/people/24101413@N03/), on Flickr

[Peter-RB]

Gentlemen,
I could be wrong on my date, I started to think when the Red wings were mentioned, on or about the mid seventies I was with my soon to be ex Mrs R-B ( if youve been there its not a good thing for memorys), and then about very early eighties I was there again with one of my girlfriends(then being sans Legiron), so I do believe the stone age picture looking from the red winged A/C was indeed from the mid seventy's.

I apologise for the mix up, but still feel that whatever Connie it was ..well what a glorius shape, and the really good pictures of the snak bar Connie are just brilliant, thank you.

Peter R-B
Lancashire

[Spooky 2]

Appology accepted JW411. :ok: I think I know my Connies having spent a little time looking out the windows from the right hand seat.:)

[Peter-RB]

Spooky 2

If you had first hand front seat time, will you tell us the following:-

Could the Connie fly from the USA direct to the UK or Europe, or did it follow the same sort of refuel type journeys of the Stratocruisers, also
how high and how fast was the journey.
I would find it facsinating to hear this sort of info from a "Been there done that" sort of person who knows the true info.

My regards

Peter R-B

[Spooky 2]

I never flew the airplane on the N. Atlantic, only domestic US. Flew the 1049H at Flying Tigers and briefly the 749A at an outfit called ASA or Aeronaves Sud Americana, a non sked headquartered in Florida but operating out of Southern California at the time.

Back to your original question. I think TWA could could do a JFK to LHR or perhaps Paris eastbound, with the option of dropping into Shannon should the need arise. Westbound proably had a Gander stop most of the time. This would be in the 1049G and perhaps tip tanks or as some would call them, Tokyo Tanks. I believe the first consistant N. Atlantic airplane would have been the 1649A and the DC7C. Pan Am operated the DC7B and they along with Panagra had the additional fuel tanks aft of the nacelles so the Pan Am DC7B was probably a good bet for a non stop, but I have no personal experince to back that up with. Long time ago!

[WHBM]

The L1049 variants did progressively increase range, including the tip tanks, but it was very dependent on the weather (and even more on the forecasters). Towards Europe, with the prevailing winds, was obviously cracked before the opposite direction. The L1649 Starliner and the DC7C were however the first to be able to do nonstops both ways with reasonable reliability (and even they didn't achieve it sometimes).

The Pan Am DC7Bs (they only bought 7) were assigned to their Miami base and operated down to South Amerca. Transatlantic services were handled by their 27-strong DC7Cs when this type came along, although some Stratocruisers lasted until the jet days because they were well liked by passengers, notwithstanding that they usually needed to stop. The DC7C had a 10' wingspan extension compared to the DC7B, added inboard, which not only gave more lift and moved the props 5 feet further out for noise reduction but allowed a significant integral tankage increase. The Starliner had a completely redesigned wing compared to the previous Connies.

[Noyade]

Is that an oversize window in the pic above?

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2761/superconstelallationatf.jpg (http://img705.imageshack.us/i/superconstelallationatf.jpg/)

[Spooky 2]

No as I recall the plug for the removable window on the Connie was oval, at least on the 749 series. So in this picture the window plug has been removed. Actually you can see the same oval plug with the window missing in the pics of the 1049G. I guess you would have to big a butt if you were trying to squeeze through that thing.:}

[Noyade]

Thank you mate. Couldn't figure out why it was bigger than the others.

:ok:

[Spooky 2]

Speaking of windows, if you look at the last picture of the 1049G you will see a small round window just aft and lower from the Captains cockpit side window. It has a unique function other than just looking out.

The FE had a mirror mounted near his panel that was positioned so that when he looked in the mirror he could see out that window and count the blades as they started the engines on the port side of the aircraft.

For the starboard side the FE could look out the small window in the small round window in the cockpit door as seen in the first photo.

Some Connies had the Radio Operators station installed immedeately aft of the Captains seat and this same window would serve for a little light ambient light for that person as well.

[atb1943]

A little bit of trivia - a friend of mine was presented with the stencil that was used to apply the registration on 83H during a visit to Faro ATC. It's now in his collection in East Sussex.

If you'd like to read about the air war and airlift in Biafra I can thoroughly recommend Michael Draper's highly detailed book 'Shadows' published by Hikoki Publications, Aldershot in 1999, ISBN 1 902109 63 5

I became involved in Hank Warton's side of the operation and met him on a number of occasions. A very likeable rogue, you might say...!

cheers
Alan

[multiprops]

I am a Connie enthusiast (I remember being close to the one in Faro, and it was a super G.) I think it was the one that got the government personal (rebel side) out of Biafra, mentioned in the "Shadows " book.

[multiprops]

to my last post: the super g was the restaurant. The white one in the first photo, that one I think could be the Grey ghost from Biafra.??:hmm:

[Halcyon Days]

I took these of it around 20 years ago approx?

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd228/RayBrettle/ConniewreckFaro.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd228/RayBrettle/ConniewreckFaro2.jpg

[POBJOY]

At one of the 'Air Fairs' a Connie managed a cloud break, did a low go around and then seem to suffer a power loss as it staggered off towards Gatwick. The sight and sound of the beast apppearing out of the damp gloom was never forgotten.

[treadigraph]

Pobjoy, that was one of Duncan Baker's Lanzair Connies - 1975 or '76? How I wish I'd been there, even though I did see the MATS Connie there years later.

[Proplinerman]

"It seems the cockpit and nose of CS-TLA were preserved. However, the photo by Peter is not this aircraft.

Planepictures.net search: Registration: CS-TLA (http://www.planepictures.net/netsearch4.cgi?srch=CS-TLA&srng=2&stype=reg)

Laurence"

Sorry to correct you, but the Connie sections at Sintra appear to be from 5T-TAK, yet another Portuguese connection Connie survivor:

Lockheed Constellation Survivors (http://www.conniesurvivors.com/5T-TAK.htm)

[WHBM]

Regarding the Super Connie.

In 1982 I went through Faro, and went across to check out the Connie restaurant. It was closed but I walked round the aircraft and took photos.

Next back at Faro in 1998 and it was gone. However, returning to the airport from the Albufeira direction we passed, in a flash on the road approaching the airport, what looked like a scrapyard on the south side of the road, with what certainly looked like the remains of a Connie triple tail inside, pushed up against the fence.

I presume it was the same aircraft. Can anyone identify where the scrapyard was ?

[reynoldsno1]

ISTR there was also a 'Connie Restaurant" in Malta? Is that still around?

[Proplinerman]

Not when I was there in September 2008, tho there is a rather good aircraft museum at what's left of an old RAF field, including this very nice Spitfire:

692 Malta Av Mus 24-9-08 Spitfire 1e | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/5212294810/)

And a Hurricane, a Meteor, a DC-3, a Sea Hawk and others.

[Halcyon Days]

"In 1982 I went through Faro, and went across to check out the Connie restaurant. It was closed but I walked round the aircraft and took photos.

Next back at Faro in 1998 and it was gone. However, returning to the airport from the Albufeira direction we passed, in a flash on the road approaching the airport, what looked like a scrapyard on the south side of the road, with what certainly looked like the remains of a Connie triple tail inside, pushed up against the fence.I presume it was the same aircraft. Can anyone identify where the scrapyard was ? "

It was in that same area I took the photos posted above-a mile or so outside of the airport at Faro-from memory-on the left hand (South) side of the road-heading towards Albufeira.
There is a "new" motorway style link road now along the coast-which wasnt there then-and the road was a narrower more windy road than it is now.

[Halcyon Days]

Took this one of the Malta Connie about 30 years ago!

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd228/RayBrettle/ConnieMalta.jpg

[DHfan]

We went to the Maltese Connie restaurant in September 1988. We tried to go back a few days later and it was closed - permanently it seems.

Later some vandals set fire to it and all that remains are at the museum at Ta'Qali. Just the wings and engines IIRC.

[Peter-RB]

From my mixed dates and memeory when starting this thread what a lot of brilliant answers and question have expanded outwards from my first "stone in the Pond".

Pehaps one of you more experienced watchers or even Flyer might give me an answer to this, last evening I was watching the History Channel, something about US Politians, it was explaining about the way they started flitting all over the world in the most up to date Aircraft, typical of a TV film they cut to a shot of a Trans World Airlines Connie landing, I noticed a fairing/bulge in the Belly area starting just in front of the wings and ending just before the end of the wing root fairing toward the rear,....was this some type of auxillery Fuel tank system or luggage locker, it looked very well streamlined but I could not get sufficiant watching time to work out what it was...can you help?

My regards

Peter R-B
Lancashire

[Ridge Runner]

At one of the 'Air Fairs' a Connie managed a cloud break, did a low go around and then seem to suffer a power loss as it staggered off towards Gatwick.

That was 1975, mate

[WHBM]

I noticed a fairing/bulge in the Belly area starting just in front of the wings and ending just before the end of the wing root fairing toward the rear,....was this some type of auxillery Fuel tank system or luggage locker

This would be the Speedpak (or Speedpack), which was a Lockheed option to carry additional freight. TWA were one of the purchasers.

You'll find some notes about it here, almost at the bottomof the page, as well as elsewhere on the web.

Lockheed Constellation Questions and Answers (http://www.conniesurvivors.com/1-QandA.htm)

and a picture of one

Photos: Lockheed L-749A Constellation Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Trans-World-Airlines/Lockheed-L-749A-Constellation/1603947/L/)

[Peter-RB]

WH
Thank you, most interesting to read about.

Peter R-B
Lancashire:ok:

[Noyade]

Nice shot of the Speedpak....

http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/6278/img677.jpg (http://img814.imageshack.us/i/img677.jpg/)

[Tex37]

The Faro Connie was taken to a company called Metalofarense in Faro on the link road from the A22 to Faro city (about 1km before the Airport turning) I seem to remember it being there until about 97ish, if this helps

Tex