Northolt up for sale?

[dead_pan]

RAF Northolt may be sold to raise defence funds | UK news | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/25/raf-northolt-may-be-sold)

Sounds like a good plan to me, although the local residents may think otherwise.

[Could be the last?]

At least they haven't spent millions refurbishing the place...........

[Cows getting bigger]

Has MoDEL finished yet? :bored:

[Robby NL]

The mind really does boggle at the way the MoD looks at its real estate, it 'gives away' acres of prime west London real estate to fund the rebuilding of Northolt and as its just about nears completion it puts the FOR SALE sign up !!!!!:{

Oh and this will be just as the Unit potentialy recieves two additional airframes!

The Unit already operates alongside Commercial operators and i'm sure this could be expanded a little but the A40 limits additional hangers and the spare runway is used as a car park!

[Wander00]

Grew up in Eastcote in the late 40s and 50s to the sounds of Devons, Ansons, Beech 18s, Dassault Flamants, DC3s of various models in the Northolt circuit. Part of what attracted me to flying and the RAF

[A2QFI]

It might be a good idea IF the money went to the MOD instead of poxy Olympic opening and closing ceremonies, IVF for illegal immigrants, child benefit for men in UK whose wife and 4 children are in Poland etc etc etc.

What happened to the money raised by the sale of the Household Cavalry barracks in Knightsbridge and the Staff College site in Bracknell

[GeeRam]

The mind really does boggle at the way the MoD looks at its real estate, it 'gives away' acres of prime west London real estate to fund the rebuilding of Northolt and as its just about nears completion it puts the FOR SALE sign up !!!!!

It's staggering isn't it......... shear mind boggling incompetance :ugh:

[hungryhorse]

Can a 747 really land/take-off from Northolt? Guess you'd need presidential auth...

[A2QFI]

5,500 ft. Can't see where a president comes into the equation!

[Green Flash]

Keep the south side for helo ops (and the new postie site) and flog the rest?

[thefodfather]

Unless there's been a recent change in the situation, the sales of some of the sites planned to fund the MoDel build at Northolt were paused due to the economic downturn 3-4 years ago.

With the paint drying on the lovely new buildings why should we be surprised at this idea, it's been happening for years. How long is the list of places closed just after Millions have been wasted on new buildings. There's a reason why pilots don't run airlines.......

Tin hat on for incoming.

[Could be the last?]

But if we are about to give the Merlin to the RN and the Puma is scrapped over the next few years, then everything can move back to Benson..........

[Could be the last?]

And another thing..... This must be the same bunch of clowns that decided to sell off Dawes Hill, just as everyone moved into High Wycombe from Innsworth!

You couldn't make this up!:ugh:

[Rigga]

I think this is really good and forward thinking idea - obviously thought about with a view of what the future RAF will need to support the british military and for what the planned future MOD willl need to look like - because they can use the money to fund a brand new and very much larger base where there is less far congestion from commercial traffic and helping many more security aspects by moving it to a less populated area - somewhere like..... in the middle of the Thames Estuary?

[WK622]

The locals are already upset by having HS2 planned to go through their back yards, this will be the icing on the cake! Then again, great place for an interchange... ;)

[Lima Juliet]

I thought that Northolt was the only airbase that provided an income for the RAF, through landing fees.. and quite a substantial income as well

Nope, if the contract is >12 months then all monies go to Central MoD funds. If <12 months then the money goes to the Station - however, the crowning turd in the waterpipe is that Station's budgets are abated for the amount that Wider Markets are expected to make in that year. Therefore, if Northolt is expected to make £1M from Wider Markets sales for their exec jet enterprise then their Station budget will be abated by £1M. Therefore, the station needs to make £1.1M in year to realise £100k of money in a contract that lasts <12 months, however, the following year they will be abated £1.1M from their budget in expectation.

That's how the Wider Markets person explained it to me as she cried into her coffee, exclaiming "What's the point!" :ugh:

Also, if Northolt ceases to generate the same money as the expected amount it can quite quickly become very expensive indeed.

Finally, with the sucking dog of death that is named the Defence Infrastructure Organisation (DIO), the RAF do not own the real estate anymore - they are simply tennants. Therefore, any money generated from the sale or DIO licensed activities will not be going into CAS's and the CINC's coffers!

LJ

[Lima Juliet]

PS Would this be our last Battle of Britain 11 Group Fighter Station to go? I can't think of another. :confused:

[Exascot]

LJ I am sure that you are correct. RAF Northholt is also the longest continually used airfield in the history of the Royal Air Force.

'Section 69 of the Civic Amenities Act 1967 gives local councils the power to designate as Conservation Areas, "areas of special architectural or historic interest, the character or appearance of which it is desirable to preserve or enhance". Designation gives control over the demolition of buildings and provides the basis for policies designed to preserve or enhance all the aspects of character or appearance that define an area's special interest.'

Failing this we could implement Section 69 of the Royal Air Force Act for anyone who interfers with this historic airfield :suspect:

[cazatou]

I mentioned this some years ago in respect of Northolt. In WW1 it was decided to requisition land which had been used as a landing ground by a early pioneer of flight. Unfortunately the "man from the Ministry" held his map upside down and requisitioned land on the wrong side of the railway line. Even more unfortunately this land was the site of a medieval Plague Pit. There are therefore severe constraints on building work at Northolt.

[ScootCargoOps]

Good luck creating any further commercial activities at the airport. I drive passed it every day and the traffic is horrendous from 07:30 towards the A40….!!!

[HTB]

The CAA carried out an aerodrome audit (inspection) of Northolt in December 2008 at the behest of the MoD. In broad brush terms, the findings of the audit were that the differences between the CAA licensing requirements (for infrastructure) and what existed on the ground, were manifold, and that Northolt could probably never meet the licensing requirements (while retaining the existing runway dimensions/orientation). The proximity of the A40 trunk road, and a couple of other major surface routes were among the limiting factors; perhaps the most visible impediment was the newly constructed petrol filling station about 100 metres in the 25 undershoot on the A4180.

Paradoxically, civil operators can use the aerodrome while it is under military control, despite the non-compliances, as that is simply an acceptance by the AOC holder that the facilities are suitable, and the aerodrome operator grant permission to use. If the aerodrome were to cease to be military (on sale) and operations were to continue, a CAA Licence would be required (to meet the forthcoming EASA criteria: "Aerodromes, including equipment, located in the territory subject to the provisions of the Treaty, open to public use and which serve commercial air transport and where operations using instrument approach or departure procedures are provided, and:

(a) have a paved runway of 800 metres or above; or

(b) exclusively serve helicopters;"

RAF/MoD were briefed fully on the audit findings, but I expect they are now gathering dust on back office shelf.

Mister B

[dead_pan]

The proximity of the A40 trunk roadKidlington - sorry, London Oxford Airport, must fall foul of this requirement. The A44 runs right beside the south-westerly threshold.

Still reckon this idea could have legs, esp given the fact there's a mainline station right on the doorstep. Hook-up the Chiltern Line to Crossrail and it could compete with LCY.

[Green Flash]

Make it a STOLport?

[HTB]

d-p

Oxford - It is because of the proximity of the A44 that the rwy 01 landing threshold is displaced (and the TORA in the opposite direction limited) to give clearance over a hypothetical "mobile obstacle" 4.8m above the crown of the road (CAP 168, chapter 4, paragraph 9.3.1).

Northolt - The 07/25 runway instrument strip, which extends logitudinally for 60m before the thresholds and laterally for 150m (the first 105m of which should be graded and clear of obstacles), sits fair and sqaure over a sizeable stretch of the A40 at the 07 end; the 25 threshold is about 100m from the A4180, the required slope is 1:50 (starting at the strip end - 60m from the 25 threshold). The clearance for mobile obstacles cannot be achieved; there is a similar constraint at the other end too (in addition to the runway strip issue). It won't be able to compete with LCY because there are too many non-compliances with CAA (and EASA) civil licensing criteria.

Mister B

[Exascot]

Even more unfortunately this land was the site of a medieval Plague Pit. There are therefore severe constraints on building work at Northolt.

Now remind me Cazatou. Who came up with the same argument for not digging trenches for perimeter defences at Northolt in the early 80s and suggested armoured car patrols instead? Presumably being an armoured car commander was far preferable than standing in a trench with ones men. Do you still have the helmet and goggles? :p

[teeteringhead]

There are indeed enormous difficulties (and costs!) in getting ex-military airfields compliant with CAA licensing requirements.

Farnborough cost many millions - the WAG (Welsh Assembly Government) had similar aspirations for Saint Athan ... which never happened....

[Deskex76]

Armoured car patrols? Not in the old Ferret armed with a broom handle that was parked outside the Mess for the Summer Ball in 85-ish... Was that before or after some wag wheel-clamped the nosewheel of one of the Andovers?

As for the plague pits, they're certainly there and extend across West End Road - the tales of hauntings in Carmichael Close might not all have been alcohol-induced.

Wasn't there supposed to be an underwater telephone exchange under the junior ranks mess?

Would a new owner get to patch up the cannon holes in 5 (or was it 6) Hangar door or has that been done already?

It's all so long ago now that I forget.

[cazatou]

Exascot

Never had to wear them - got myself posted to a brand new 4 engined Jet!!

Deskex 76

That was a High Velocity Self Loading Semi Automatic Broomstick!!