New Initial Type Rating

[disininer]

Hi all, I´m in the process of obtaining a new type rating for both JAA and FAA licence. As far as the JAA licence concerns, I have an expired multipilot type rating and an expired IR(A) (both 30.09.2011 - dd-mm-yyyy). So, Do I need to revalidate the instrumental rating before I go through the simulator, or somehow could I revalidate it during the examination?

Thank you all.

[mad_jock]

Your going to have to contact the TRTO and your CAA.

There will be a load of folk saying you won't need to but I know of 10-12 pilots that haven't been allowed to start a second if not third multicrew type rating without a valid IR of some form.

The UK CAA seemed to change its policy on this about the same time as they stopped allowing ICAO IR keeping the ATPL theory valid.

[taxi_driver]

There is an accurate piece of text in Lasors that describes this. Section F:

Many TRTO's dont seem to know this, and blindly insist that you go out and waste a grand or more revalidating an IR which is not needed.

Pre-requisite conditions for training


An applicant for the first type rating course for a MPA shall
provide evidence that the following requirements have
been met:-
a. have completed at least 70 hours as pilot-incommand
of aeroplanes;
b. hold a current and valid multi-engine Instrument
Rating (Aeroplanes). This requirement applies to a
first MPA type rating.

For subsequent type ratings
the Instrument Rating may be renewed if necessary
during the type rating course and skill test.

[mad_jock]

see what I mean.

But in practise, you can't do it. 4 of the lads got a dispensation from the CAA to start because of the Ash clouds stopped them going to canada for a dash rating before there previous ratings were up.

Its the CAA driving it not the TRTO's they seem to want to make expats coming home life as difficult as possible.

[BillieBob]

JAR-FCL 1 is quite clear on this - a valid IR is NOT a pre-requisite for second and subsequent MPA type ratings. I know of two pilots who have recently completed B737 type ratings, neither of whom held valid IRs at the start of the course. The UK CAA had no problem issuing the ratings and both are currently in line training.

[mad_jock]

Someone needs to get there finger out then and send a trainingcom out to all TRTO's because there is some serious wastage of cash going on with this nonsense.

The ones I know of aren't even with small companys that don't know any better one of them was starting with BMI regional.

[taxi_driver]

A friend faced this very situation when changing types, with the TRTO insisting he needed a vaild ir to commence training. Prospect of wasting £1500 on an mep/ir or hiring a sim and examiner to renew his previous types ir did not appeal.

After a phone call to the CAA, they directed him to the paragraph in Lasors, which mirrors the JAR text quoted above. He promptly put this in front of the TRTO who changed their minds quite rapidly.

Moral of the story, do your own research, and TRTO's, TRE's etc dont always know everything, and will quite happily trot out old wives tales and urban myths till corrected.

[mad_jock]

The problem is that it's in thier approved manuals as a condition of starting the TR. Technically they can't just change thier mind and let you. They have to change the manual and get it re-approved.

The BMI lad did exactly the same and it was tough luck mate either get it or look for another job.

The TRTO has every right to set its own policy as long as its more restrictive than the CAA's. Same with any company requirments.

So the OP will have to go to the TRTO and if they say they want it there is absolutely nothing they can do to force the TRTO into accepting them.

[disininer]

Well, It seems Lasors say what I want to hear, and I think I know why it says so reading very carefully JAR-FCL 1.250 .

Point a) is refrering to pre-requisites for training for those who are going to obtain a first multipilot type rating, and in fact is titled just like that. So there is no doubt all that stuff is necessary and nothing is under discussion.

But, when it comes to point d), for those who want to add an additional ( second or third) multipilot type rating, now it says " the issue of an additional multi-pilot type ratings requires a valid multi-engine instrument rating". So, this is not a pre-requisite for training anymore, my understanding is that you´ve got to have it (IR) if you want it (TR) added.

Now comes the worst part...at least for me.....I´ve got to deal with the spanish DGAC, and guess what, they´ve translated this paragraph into our own legal system as " Training for additional multipilot type ratings requires the possesion of a multi-engine instrument rating". They might have issued an amendment to this point....I don´t think so though.

I don´t know, I think I´ve been thinking over this matter too much. Tomorrow I´ll call DGAC. Anyway, thank you all.

[mad_jock]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Section%201%20Subpart%20F%20-%20Amdt%205%20_JAR-FCL%201_.pdf

Here it is if anyone else wants to read it.

It doesn't help that the numbering is screwed up either