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Non Emmett
25th Jan 2012, 09:12
The local press today report that a director at Newquay Airport has had his pay increased from £69K to £125 p.a. The airport was described by one County Councillor thus - "the Council is picking up the same level of salary as a corporate director when they are running a facility that carries as many passengers as the bus service in Truro every day."

The salary increase equates to roughly 50p per passenger using the airport.

Cornwall is the least affluent County in the country, the Council seem to forget this from time to time.........

Also reported today is that military personnel above the rank of Sergeant in London will lose their London allowances - it's a funny old world isn't it.

JSCL
25th Jan 2012, 09:20
To be fair, the council is right. Expecting to pay an MD £69k/year for something like NQY is stupid. Minimum salary for MD of any airport should be hovering the £95k mark. £125k for one of NQY's size seems about right. It's not an equal world, but to be fair to the gent who serves as MD, he's been underpaid for quite some time.

Aero Mad
25th Jan 2012, 09:21
Old thread is here http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/198735-newquay-34.html

trafficnotsighted
25th Jan 2012, 21:06
Why be fair to the MD , from what i have heard they have not been fair to the ATCO's on the pay front. A couple left last year and management were surprised that potential replacements turned them down when offered salaries £10,000+ below the market rate. It is not all fun in the sun.

JSCL
25th Jan 2012, 21:09
Because ultimately, it's the MD that has the duties of making sure that business is running smoothly/efficiently. I have no doubt if the MD is seeing a pay increase, they will be scope for ATCO pay increases in the near future.

NQY is expanding, slowly admittedly, but it's expanding. This means more workload, this means demands for higher pay. The scale should trend in the ATCO's favour in the near future. Also remembering that pay levels in the Cornwall area are naturally lower.

Cloud1
25th Jan 2012, 21:39
Saturdays are looking busy this summer, not bad considering WOW has gone.

3 x LGW Q400
1 x MAN Q400
1 x NWI Q400
1 x GLA D38
1 x NCL Q400
1 x BHD Q400
1 x EDI Q400

Plus the IOS of course

Aero Mad
25th Jan 2012, 21:54
Plus bmibaby and the German flights.

trafficnotsighted
25th Jan 2012, 22:09
Well the business will not run smoothly/efficiently if they do not have enough ATCO's to cover the airfield opening hours. The reason some ATCO's left was because they were told that there would not be any salary improvements in the next couple of years. Regional pay levels do not come into play when it comes to ATCO' salaries from what i hear.

cornishsimon
25th Jan 2012, 23:47
Saturdays are looking busy this summer, not bad considering WOW has gone.

3 x LGW Q400
1 x MAN Q400
1 x NWI Q400
1 x GLA D38
1 x NCL Q400
1 x BHD Q400
1 x EDI Q400

Plus the IOS of course
Plus bmibaby and the German flights. The LH flights are to be operated by a 735 on saturdays and a CRJ900 on wednesdays

I personally think that NQY will see more scheduled flights and possibly some cargo.

We also need to keep in mind that NQY doesnt just rely on scheduled flights, we now have training flights via AW, MX by BIH and also NQY still sees some MOD movements

Phileas Fogg
26th Jan 2012, 00:45
Yes, but there are only X number of people living in NQY's catchment area and there are only X number of hotels, guest houses and/or static caravan parks within NQY's catchment area also.

So ..... whilst airport traffic may slowly increase, and unless Cornwall becomes, literally, wall to wall hotels, guest houses and/or caravan parks, the airport traffic shall NEVER attain a level to justify the size of the airfield real estate and/or the paying of market salaries.

The airport is always likely to remain subsidised by taxpayers thus the higher the salaries then the more monies taken from the local economy!

jabird
26th Jan 2012, 01:00
Phileas,

I think NQY is a long way from saturation - has it not been more like 500k pax pa? Didn't plans call for 1m+?

With PLH having slowly withered away, NQY's catchment will have spread east - especially for people coming down from Scotland.

My understanding is that most UK hotels struggle to reach 60% occupancy.

Rather than fussing about one man's salary, I'd be asking how much pax are put off by the extra airport fee, not to mention two doses of APD for domestic pax.

If the man in charge had a performance bonus - say £10k pa for each additional 50k pax, that would be better still.

Phileas Fogg
26th Jan 2012, 07:04
jabird,

There is something of an animosity between the Cornish and the Devonians ... and vice versa.

When Brymon, they did it first, combined the PLH & NQY services on to Y50 aircraft there was uproar, in this scenario, to the effect "why the hell are we going backwards via Cornwall when we want to travel from Devon to London or wherever?".

I think you'll find that the PLH punters will be using EXT, BRS, BHX, LHR, the train and/or the A38/M5 etc. rather than flocking to NQY!

NQY might just attract those, that previously used PLH, from east Cornwall but I think that'll be as far as it goes.

P.S. My local airport has an APD (terminal fee) equivalent to 15p :)

Non Emmett
26th Jan 2012, 10:52
I note today from the local press that BIH are going to permanently relocate the S-61 service from Penzance to Newquay from October. They will continue to operate out of their Pz base until then and had been looking around for a new site in West Cornwall.

Routes to St. Mary's and Tresco will presumably cost rather more than the present £190 return in view of the additional mileage but my assumption would be that they will save on the significant infrastructure costs associated with a new base in West Cornwall where some might say the nimbies have been out in force just recently.

I imagine Scillonians will not be best pleased with this development.

pennineuk
26th Jan 2012, 12:15
A disaster for Penzance town and much more inconvenient for Scillonians and visitors.

BIH had previously said fares wouldn't change when operating from NQY; however that was when they were hopeful for a move back to West Cornwall. The additional mileage must in time lead to higher fares, which won't help tourism to Scilly.

PlymouthPixie
26th Jan 2012, 17:55
BIH won't survive very long at Newquay.

Non Emmett
26th Jan 2012, 18:17
Interesting but worrying comment plymouth pixie - the Scillies seem to me to rely heavily on the S-61 and Tresco in particular with direct flights. Not too many seem ready to brave the Scillonian passage these days. Not sure how much utilisation the Twin Otters get.

PlymouthPixie
26th Jan 2012, 19:28
Mark my words, they'll sell the heliport, cut their losses & run. The Dauphins will be sold off privately (To the Navy no doubt) and the S-61's sent to Carson Helicopters in Canada.

Bigt
26th Jan 2012, 20:02
The heliport was sold some time ago..

Cloud1
26th Jan 2012, 20:25
Plus bmibaby and the German flights.
From the schedule it doesnt appear that bmi will fly in on a Sat

cornishsimon
26th Jan 2012, 22:51
You need to remember that for BIH to operate ex Penzance they need high overheads, large site, staff, fire cover etc. This results in the fairly high prices of S61 flights.

The fuel cost for operating flights ex NQY will be higher, however the other costs would be much lower as BIH will dump the staff and outsource the entire operation to NQY as the handling agent

I still think that BIH could benefit from some sort of interline agreement with BE to allow connections onto the IOS

cs

MADTASS
16th Feb 2012, 12:17
Not also Forgetting Fly Newquay Flying School, plus the Private Movements Generated by Weston Aviation including any Military Flights that book in.
We also have an Expanding GA Aircraft Fleet based at the Airport.
Going to go out on a Limb and say things are starting to pick up slightly.

cornishsimon
22nd Feb 2012, 00:49
I think a DUB flight is still very much needed @ NQY

cs

Rubber Duck
5th Apr 2012, 20:06
Loganair commenced it's GLA service today. Forward bookings look positive for the summer by all accounts.:ok:

CabinCrewe
5th Apr 2012, 20:40
...indeed. An increase has already been suggested ;)

cornishsimon
5th Apr 2012, 21:27
...indeed. An increase has already been suggested http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif



Very positive

An increase to what ?


cs

magicmick
18th Apr 2012, 12:16
I have heard a rumour from an RAF engineer that Virgin Atlantic are to set up a large maintenance facility at Newquay/ RAF St Mawgan, he had no proof and it was just a ‘crew room rumour’.

However I note that in the next week or so Virgin will be hosting civil aircraft engineering career presentations at RNAS Culdrose and RRC Plymouth, is this co-incidence or is there some substance in the rumour?

Many thanks for your thoughts.

Phileas Fogg
18th Apr 2012, 14:09
BA has a significant maintenance facility at CWL but CWL airport itself is in mega sh1tstreet financially!

cornishsimon
18th Apr 2012, 17:16
Correct BA has mx facilities at CWL, PIK, LHR, LGW, GLA and I believe EDI

Obviously BA doesn't fly to all of those, so it's not beyond the realms that virgin are looking at NQY, especially if they are in fact looking at entering the shorthaul uk market


cs

ScotsSLF
18th Apr 2012, 18:21
Certainly there are maintanence facilities for BA at GLA & PIK (Airbus fleet) but wasn't aware of any at EDI.

cornishsimon
5th May 2012, 16:36
Well flybe schedules for winter 2012 are available

MAN is back to mon, wed & fri
GLA is dropped ? Seasonal
EDI is dropped ? Seasonal


Quite a shame really


cs

Cloud1
5th May 2012, 17:51
EDI has always been seasonal! So I suspect GLA would be the same

Heathrow Harry
6th May 2012, 09:32
Newquay is a tough location - it isn't really close to anywhere and the train service from the Far West is highly competitive. If you live in Truro say you have a 30-45 minute drive, a 30-45 min checkin..... by that time you can be halfway to London

They've also improved the road significantly and London - Truro/Newquay is a fairly straight forward 4-5 hours

Really can't see it surviving

Artic Monkey
6th May 2012, 10:26
Well I'm not too sure about that. A 1hr 30 drive from Newquay puts you around the Exeter region, and that's a fair way off being in Heathrow or Gatwick. Then from Exeter it is at least a 2½hr drive minimum to Gatwick, and at least that should you take the M5/M4 route. 1½hrs from Newquay is about a third of the way, but nowhere near ½ way. Then you have the buggeration factor of driving on A roads most of the way which makes the flying a little more viable.

cornishsimon
6th May 2012, 15:39
NQY needs a LHR flight to allow connections into longhaul.

Ever tried driving for 4-5 hours after a night time longhaul flight ?

Anyone who doubt the need should try getting on a FGW train at Paddington and seeing where people with tagged luggage get off.


cs

Skipness One Echo
6th May 2012, 15:53
NQY needs a LHR flight to allow connections into longhaul.
Why would LHR want a NQY connection when another DXB with Emirates would excite them more? Better use of a scare slot. Those days are gone forever.

CabinCrewe
6th May 2012, 17:24
Just like BA at BFS and DUB were "gone forever" ?

Skipness One Echo
6th May 2012, 21:36
OK fair point, but can you seriously see Willie Walsh launching LHR-NQY? What sort of load would you get thrice daily in Feb? It's much too seasonal I think.

cornishsimon
6th May 2012, 22:07
Correct, I can't see BA launching the service.

But that's not to say that I don't think its needed and saying that i think it would be used, people who live here fly from
LHR, people who vist here, fly into LHR.

I could see a daily A319 being filled, year round and especially during the summer


cs

Aero Mad
8th May 2012, 07:06
Waste of a slot given you can already book through ba.com from NQY to anywhere across the BA network through their codeshare with BE. Anyone who is really desperate in that regard can route through LGW.

Wycombe
8th May 2012, 12:21
Looks like the Summer EMA-NQY route is going to operate for a couple of weeks and that's it....

BMI Baby - News Update | Newquay Cornwall Airport (http://www.newquaycornwallairport.com/about/media-center/news/bmi-baby-news-update)

PlymouthPixie
8th May 2012, 13:25
Anyone know why the ex-Nimrod apron now wears Boeing 747 markings?

Not a coincidence I'm sure?

Deano777
8th May 2012, 18:28
British Airways Maintenance?

PlymouthPixie
8th May 2012, 19:51
Could be, the markings are 737, A320 and 747.

cornishsimon
8th May 2012, 19:52
Well rumors are ripe about virgin Atlantic bringing some maintenance to NQY.


cs

CabinCrewe
8th May 2012, 20:15
Would have thought BA have enough sites for maintanance just now requiring only the occasional farm out to other companies, adding another UK site would be a little strange

cornishsimon
8th May 2012, 21:18
Especially considering they are about to inherit a facility at EMA now as well





cs

GROUNDHOG
8th May 2012, 21:51
Have to agree with Cornishsimon, whilst sadly it is not really practical a Heathrow service would be great. Heathrow via Gatwick is a pain.

I live in South West Cornwall and travel regularly LHR/YVR with BA. Tried all the options now I always rent a car which I can pick up locally the day before and dump at LHR on departure, courtesy bus straight to T5. Cost last time was £39 for a Vauxhall Insignia plus about £45 for fuel, A30 then motorway all the way. Two people and 60kgs luggage. Far less hassle, cheaper and quicker than getting a taxi to NQY, checking in, flying to LGW. collecting the bags, then getting on a bus to LHR T5 then checking in again.

I would love to support my local airport but believe me I have done the trip several times and this really is the best and most stress free way to fly from LHR if you live down here!

cornishsimon
8th May 2012, 22:11
GROUNDHOG
Totally agree, it always baffled me that no service exists when you see how many fellow train travellers are dragging LHR tagged bags off at stations Bodmin west.

No matter which airline these people arrive with I would guess that a LHR-NQY service on an A319 would be well used.

Personally the last thing you want to do after a nighttime longhaul flight is to drive back to Cornwall, the hex and then fgw home is a pita, connecting between LHR and gatters is a pain.

I know it's not going to happen, but I suppose if BA are looking at a slot sitting route to babysit slots following the take over of BMI that NQY could be a possibility. Especially as IAG have stated that Belfast and Dublin will be kept following the takeover, suppose it gives a glimmer of hope to uk domestic routes.


cs

derelicte
9th May 2012, 08:11
How about Amsterdam, would that be viable instead?

GROUNDHOG
9th May 2012, 08:17
In 1969 I was Station Manager for Westward Airways, ins't it ironic that over 40 years ago you could fly NQY/LHR and today you can't.

Return leg we usually use the same BA flight which arrives 13.20 so its into the Sofitel - or wherever there is a good deal and hire car the next day. Even doing that it is still cheaper than flying via LGW and the whole trip is much less stressful, even means SWMBO gets to go to Cribbs Causeway for a shopping fix on the way back!

Phileas Fogg
9th May 2012, 09:02
derelicte,

For connections it would need KLM to operate to/from AMS, their smallest machines are 80 (ish) seater F70's and they would need to operate a minimum of twice daily for connection purposes.

Can't see 160 (ish) people each way to/from AMS on a daily basis, can you?

derelicte
9th May 2012, 22:38
Maybe not....but if there are as many taking the train as is suggested and demand would be there for a LHR link, then maybe there is. As things are I won't change more than twice to get somewhere but if I lived in darkest Cornwall I would think differently. There would surely be inbound traffic too, although summer only I daresay. Between Exeter and Newquay they can surely come up with something.

CabinCrewe
9th May 2012, 23:11
Cant see an A319 being "well used" either. The BA slot filler flights were testiment to that. Smallish regional jet/prop twice daily at most and into LHR that just isnt happening.

Wycombe
10th May 2012, 07:10
Between Exeter and Newquay they can surely come up with something

Between Exeter and Newquay there used to be an Airport called Plymouth :\

VISCOUNT58
11th May 2012, 11:10
Virgin A330 at Newquay now; parked on south pan; could be some substance to the rumours?

chaps2011
11th May 2012, 11:30
Yes VIR817P from LHR this morning


Ian

cornishsimon
11th May 2012, 12:15
Spotted it on finals heading over St Awful.

Perhaps some substance in the rumour of Virgin starting using NQY for MX ?


cs

magicmick
11th May 2012, 13:12
Many thanks for the sighting info. I recently asked one of the Virgin Engineering Academy instructors whether or not he had heard anything about an engineering base being set up at Newquay and he strongly denied all knowledge which is probably as good as getting a definite confirmation that it will happen.

Skipness One Echo
11th May 2012, 13:20
Perhaps some substance in the rumour of Virgin starting using NQY for MX ?
They're not starting maintenance in Cornwall, they have no need to. It's a base training flight operated by G-VRAY.

Baltasound
12th May 2012, 07:50
Just to echo the above regarding connections or lack of from NQY to LHR. Flying out to LCA - drove from Truro to LHR , parked car (£70 all in for the two of us) - 4hrs 30...including a stop for tea and buns. I was quite pleased with the outcome.

MADTASS
12th May 2012, 17:57
May have been some Base Training involved but it was Primarily a Photo Shoot, involving an Augusta 109 from Castle Air (Liskeard) and also a Jet Provost. Spoke to the Crews of Both Aircraft and they Thoroughly Enjoyed themselves.

Apparently, the A330 Was only 3 Weeks Old and had just been Delivered, Beautiful Aircraft, Clean as a Shiny Pin, Certainly Bigger than i thought.

cornishsimon
17th Jun 2012, 22:32
Airport in talks with 12 airlines | This is Cornwall (http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Airport-talks-12-airlines/story-16377071-detail/story.html)


Mr Titterington also revealed he was in talks with up to 12 other heavyweight
airlines about the possibility of introducing new routes from Newquay.




"The airlines we are in discussions with cannot be named for commercial (http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Airport-talks-12-airlines/story-16377071-detail/story.html#)
reasons but are airlines which have a significant presence in the industry."




Any thoughts ?

cs

virginblue
18th Jun 2012, 09:38
Yes - most of the 12 airlines are probably wondering what he is talking about.

I remember a similar press story "leaked" by a regional airport over here in which the airport boasted about "x airlines" they are talking with. In most cases, this "talking" was little more than sending a letter to the airlines telling them how great the airport was and that they should start services asap. Guys I knew at one airline that was "targeted" could not stop laughing when they read that the airport was "talking" with them - if at all, it was strictly a one-way conversation.

pug
18th Jun 2012, 09:44
I think BA may have been looking to restore a LHR link..? Not heard anything since LBA and BFS were first mooted though so maybe it isnt happening.

cornishsimon
18th Jun 2012, 11:01
The BA LHR - Leeds and Belfast and Dublin routes are happening, Dublin and Belfast are simply taking over the existing bmi routes, LBA should start when the MAN schedule is sorted out.

Not heard anything about NQY-LHR apart when me suggesting it a while ago.


cs

nonemmet
18th Jun 2012, 17:00
I know that this is a rumour site, but honestly, NQY-LHR is stretching credulity.

devonish
18th Jun 2012, 17:29
virgin blue and non emmett, i agree with you both, no facts here, not even rumours, even wrong airlines quoted on the routes. BMI -NQY -DUB!!
i will make up a route as well; NQY - MOSCOW.

Fairdealfrank
18th Jun 2012, 23:01
Quote: "I know that this is a rumour site, but honestly, NQY-LHR is stretching credulity."

Would love to see it, and EXT too, we need links to the West Country.

Bearing in mind petrol prices, congestion and speed traps on the A30/A303, I would find NQY-LHR very convenient!

But it's a long time since the Brymon days. BD was never on the route, VS are only longhaul, and it's doubtful if the route is high on the BA's new domestic destinations list. No other UK carrier uses LHR so, nonemmet, have to agree with you.

However, could see a NQY-NHT route if NHT ever becomes a civil airport.

Phileas Fogg
18th Jun 2012, 23:42
Excuse me but BD were on the NQY/LHR route ... they operated it with HP7 equipment ... Brymon took over both the route and HP7 G-ATIG from British Midland!

Fairdealfrank
18th Jun 2012, 23:46
Quote: "Excuse me but BD were on the NQY/LHR route ... they operated it with HP7 equipment ... Brymon took over both the route and HP7 G-ATIG from British Midland!"

Oops, sorry, got that wrong!

Heathrow Harry
8th Jul 2012, 10:04
the problem with Newquay for most UK based passengers is the door-to door time and car hire cost

You have to hire a car to get anywhere else in Cornwall and by the time you've got that factored in it's just easier to drive there in your own motor

nonemmet
8th Jul 2012, 15:01
Except on a summer Saturday.

cornishsimon
8th Jul 2012, 17:28
If they ever bother to duel the A30 the car would be a no brainier but it's a horrible car journey no matter which day you try it during the summer.

The beauty of a NQY-LHR flight would be from connections into Cornwall and allow those of us living here to connect NQY-wherever in the world with ease.


cs

Fairdealfrank
8th Jul 2012, 23:27
Quote: "If they ever bother to duel the A30 the car would be a no brainier but it's a horrible car journey no matter which day you try it during the summer."

Most of the A30 is dualled, the problems are the annoying stretches of single carriageway in between. That's where the bottlenecks occur and everything else backs up.

Quote: "The beauty of a NQY-LHR flight would be from connections into Cornwall and allow those of us living here to connect NQY-wherever in the world with ease."

Exactly, that connectivity would also help reinvigorate the local economy. The same applies in many parts of the country. That's another reason why we need LHR expansion. More slots at LHR means cheaper slots and that may help make such a route viable.

cornishsimon
9th Jul 2012, 10:33
I should of said fully duel the A30 !!!!!!!

GROUNDHOG
9th Jul 2012, 15:00
Or even fully DUAL the A30!

I will be driving to LHR again next month to catch a flight to YVR, bring back Westward Airways Islander!

cornishsimon
9th Jul 2012, 20:48
You are of course correct, and I of course have an apple product that likes to make corrections for me ! Sometimes for the better and sometimes not !

cs

ConstantFlyer
9th Jul 2012, 21:47
The beauty of a NQY-LHR flight would be from connections into Cornwall and allow those of us living here to connect NQY-wherever in the world with ease

Cornishsimon - You'd be forever stacking over Croydon, waiting for a bus transfer from aircraft to terminal or queueing at inbound immigration. Would a link to CDG or AMS not better fit the bill?

cornishsimon
9th Jul 2012, 22:43
Cornishsimon - You'd be forever stacking over Croydon, waiting for a bus
transfer from aircraft to terminal or queueing at inbound immigration. Would a
link to CDG or AMS not better fit the bill?



Either or all would be grand ! :ok:

but on the subject of NQY-LHR, is the flight really that different in duration and distance when compared to say MAN-LHR ?

I also think NQY will get a FRA service probably on LH before too long to compliment the existing twice weekly DUS summer service


cs

Out Of Trim
10th Jul 2012, 15:57
Hmm, i'm pretty sure there are direct flights from LGW to YVR. So why the need for LHR??

GROUNDHOG
11th Jul 2012, 07:57
Slightly off topic, there are charter flights LGW/YVR with Canadian Affair ( Air Transat) but to enjoy any degree of comfort, you have to go to LHR where you have BA,VS or AC. I refuse to fly economy on long haul flights. Transat do have a Club product but I do not rate it as much better than BA economy except for an extra 2" legroom.

As to linking over Europe, it all depends where you are going. I would not fly NQY/FRA/YVR but would almost certainly fly NQY/FRA/anywhere East, there is something wrong with flying in the opposite direction for two hours before you start your journey. In the case of LHR/LGW there is no option.

If BA want to try a NQY link again then LHR is a better bet than going head to head with Flybe on LGW. As to the viability I do not have the numbers and doubt in reality anyone else here does either!

GROUNDHOG
13th Jul 2012, 20:31
A few years off but announced today a new direct rail link between the West Coast line and Heathrow, will cut 45 minutes off the journey time which is quite significant. On the basis most people have to get to Newquay first, plus check in times this would surely have an adverse effect on the potential for any flights to LHR.

PAXboy
12th Sep 2012, 22:46
I dare say those close to the location will know all about this:
BBC News - Newquay test set for Bloodhound land speed rocket (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15460965)

johnnychips
12th Sep 2012, 23:10
Just hope it doesn't do a Hammond. That could b*gger up the flight schedules a bit. Still I hope the airport will be paid handsomely for its use.

cornishsimon
13th Sep 2012, 00:40
b*gger up the flight schedules


What flights ? :ugh:


On a serious note, any rumors or suggestions for next year at NQY ?


cs

Wycombe
13th Sep 2012, 07:48
I guess what NQY gets next year will very much depend on the performance of the routes this year.

No doubt Lufty will be back as, judging by my visits, Germans seem to love Cornwall.

Flybe's services from the regions seem very tentative, even during the peak season, so will be interesting to see if the likes of NCL, NWI, BHD return next year. Maybe we will see an EMA service (to replace the one from WW that stopped prematurely in June this year), considering that BE will have a base there by S13?

As for the routes to more significant hubs, it's a real pity that all NQY gets for the Winter is LGW and MAN (with the latter only 4 a week, I think). Couldn't either EDI or GLA be made to work year round on a Logie Saab?

cornishsimon
13th Sep 2012, 10:37
with no WW on the MAN route its seeing a 30% drop in numbers during the summer, for instance July had 3720 use the route compared with last year in July 5300.

Again due to schedule reduction EDi has dropped to 1834 down from 2805 which is -35% on last July.

NCL i think will be back for 2013 as this weekly route had 544 punters in July which is good considering its only a saturday route.

Hopefully all the routes will be back for 2013, equally i think that LBA, EMA, DUB and ORK is missing compared to last year.

Again however i agree with you about EDI and GLA, im farily certain that that the route would work year round on the Loganair S340 but hey ho!

cs

cornishsimon
5th Oct 2012, 00:14
Well looking at the flybe summer 13 schedules, LGW is unchanged, MAN is up to daily.

However nothing is loaded for EDI, GLA, NCL, BHD, NWI


2013 could well be an awful year if nothing new is announced.


cs

Rubber Duck
5th Oct 2012, 06:22
CS,

BE have only loaded core summer activity across overall network. Seasonal activity to be loaded by November

cornishsimon
5th Oct 2012, 10:14
All summer 2013 flights now on sale according to the BE email yesterday !!


cs

Wycombe
5th Oct 2012, 12:18
Yes, I got that email aswell, but if you read the detail it says only flights up to 14th July are loaded. Looking at BE's timetable that is indeed the case, even for core routes like LGW-JER and SOU-AGP.

I think Rubber Duck is right and this reflects what BE normally do with a lot of the very seasonal flights.

I can't think that routes like GLA won't return next year - in the case of this one I think it will be released later anyway, in line with other routes operated by Loganair (nothing yet released at all for S13 for their franchise ops as yet).

Wycombe
11th Oct 2012, 08:17
A slight update:

Some GLA flights now loaded for next year, 2 weekly starting from 27th May, going up to 3 weekly in early July.

Seeing that BE have now supposedly loaded their S13 schedule up to early Sept, this looks a bit bleak for NQY.

On an unrelated subject, todays NQY arrivals is showing BA4505 inbound from LCY at 1200. Training perhaps?

Rubber Duck
11th Oct 2012, 10:23
Wycombe, it's a charter I believe from LCY. Something to do with Janes Bond event at Eden

cornishsimon
11th Oct 2012, 11:30
Should make some nice piccys for anyone at NQY today, first visit of a BA E-Jet ?

On a related note, I'm very surprised that EDI is gone from the BE schedules, that route has been going years and consistently carrying over 10000 per year


cs

Wycombe
19th Nov 2012, 14:24
Looks like it's going to be very quiet at NQY next Summer, at least airline-ops wise :uhoh:

Is it really only going to be Flybe from LGW and MAN (albeit daily by then) and Logie operating as Flybe from GLA (with less flights than this year)?

Will Lufty DUS make a re-appearance?

Will the changes announced by Skybus (re. cessation of longer routes to the likes of SOU and BRS) mean we see more of them at NQY?

It all seems a bit grim.

GROUNDHOG
19th Nov 2012, 15:27
Just remind me again, was it ten million spent on the great master plan.....still never mind all those passengers paying the fiver development fee in 2013 should get a couple of grand back

cornishsimon
19th Nov 2012, 23:54
its hard to believe that the LH DUS route wont be back for the 2013 season, it went from weekly in 2011 to twice weekly in 2012, so then to drop it would seem a strange decision. I know that LH are re-organising European ops but even so ?

When do the seasonal BE routes get released ? again its hard to think that after having several weekly routes last year NQY will have nothing this year !

And whats happened to EDI ? that route has always previously carried in excess of 10000 passengers off the top of my head, seems a strange one to drop ?


cs

LGWAlan
20th Nov 2012, 13:25
Amadeus still shows a once weekly DUS-NQY on a CR9

cornishsimon
20th Nov 2012, 23:24
Amadeus still shows a once weekly DUS-NQY on a CR9


Thanks for that LGWAlan

Dont suppose you can post the dates its loaded ? its still not bookable via the LH website so im still not 100% convinced as it stands, but to be honest i can see no reason to drop the root as the loads seemed the best year so far.

I obviously know that loads dont = yield but even still !


cs

LGWAlan
21st Nov 2012, 12:44
Amadeus showing 25May through to 7Sep as LH3458/9 DUSNQYDUS 1200-1240/1335-1615

cornishsimon
21st Nov 2012, 13:54
thanks for that ;)


cs

cornishsimon
27th Nov 2012, 19:07
I see that BE have loaded the weekly BHD, NCL and NWI for NQY but no EDI nex year ?

I'm also surprised that BE have not picked up the EMA route ?



cs

Aero Mad
29th Nov 2012, 18:24
Flybe confirms return of key summer routes from Newquay Airport | Business Cornwall (http://www.businesscornwall.co.uk/news-by-industry/tourism-sector-business-news-cornwall/flybe-confirms-summer-routes-123)

cornishsimon
2nd Dec 2012, 23:04
The return of these domestic destinations is obviously welcome but you have to wonder about a once a week service to NQY, surely two or three weekly would allow shorter breaks and more flexibility to the traveling public ?

EMA, LBA and DUB are the routes that I'm surprised have not reappeared following the demise of SZ.

cs

cornishsimon
4th Dec 2012, 12:45
notice that BE8271 is expected to arrive at Newquay ex Manston today. Whats this all about ?


cs

Rubber Duck
4th Dec 2012, 14:27
Truro City v Dover Athletic tonight. Dover to Truro by road would be some slog!

cornishsimon
4th Dec 2012, 15:45
Thankyou sir


cs

GROUNDHOG
4th Dec 2012, 18:48
Good job they weren't playing in Dover then......:(

cornishsimon
5th Dec 2012, 22:27
At last some good news

Looks like my guess was right, EZY are in the process of loading SEN-NQY for summer 13 as I predicted, however I'm shocked to see LPL also loaded. Both seem to be 3 weekly


cs

Wycombe
6th Dec 2012, 08:03
Looks like an EZY foray then into Flybe territory on the LGW (London area) and MAN services to NQY.

I think the London area service would have been better out of STN or LTN than SEN.

I wonder if EZY might also be likely to fill the EDI gap that seems to have been left by Flybe also?

Barling Magna
6th Dec 2012, 08:40
Well, according to their websites it's actually five minutes quicker to fly from NQY to SEN by EZY than to fly from NQY to LGW with flybe. Add in the swift passage through the terminal at SEN and on to the train and the SEN service should save quite a bit of time. LTN or STN would give access to more connenctions of course, but I guess you can get those via LGW so SEN can provide a jet link to London for the good folk of Cornwall - and provide a rapid link to those splendid surfing beaches for the good folk of Essex and East London. Fares look comparable too......

cornishsimon
6th Dec 2012, 08:48
Either way it should be a welcome boost to passenger numbers for NQY, and I also wonder of EZY will be the ones to step in on the vacant EDI route considering the fairly large amount of based aircraft they have at EDI.


cs

cornishsimon
6th Dec 2012, 09:56
Well previously BA operated daily on a 735 to LGW along with 4 DH8-300 by SZ and 3 Q400 from BE along with the twice daily 738 to STN from Ryanair.

It say demand is present tbh.


cs

cornishsimon
6th Dec 2012, 10:21
Ryanair pulled the 3 NQY routes due to the development fee at NQY, SZ were closed down by eastern

cs

oapilot
6th Dec 2012, 21:48
Pax numbers halved with the demise of SZ which meant the loss of a variety of destinations.
BE really went for the LGW route, but once SZ disappeared, frequency was slashed and prices rocketed, and no other routes out of NQY are particularly well served in terms of frequency or price.
If BE bale out now, it would be a pity for the airport, but would it make that much difference in terms of total numbers?
Having written off all that cash establishing themselves on the LGW route and killing off the local airline, it would be ironic if BE abandoned NQY just because a bigger and richer competitor showed some interest.

Artic Monkey
6th Dec 2012, 22:33
um

I don't really think that's true about the frequency being slashed. I've operated the route for the last 3 years and it has always been 3 x daily apart from in the winter where some are slashed if the numbers aren't there; but then that's always been the case.

EuroChallenger
7th Dec 2012, 20:40
Speaking of Leeds, did Jet2 try Newquay a few summers back, from Leeds? Or was it Belfast? Or was it both? My memory cells are fading!

cornishsimon
7th Dec 2012, 22:38
Jet2 tried Leeds and Belfast.

only lasted one season i think, but considering Air Southwest were on LBA with multiple flights per day its no surprise it failed.

Now NQY doesnt get a LBA flight, shame that JET2 dont give it another go really.

Mind you, LS could easily fill the gap on EDI, EMA & LBA which are now all unserved


cs

trafficnotsighted
8th Dec 2012, 08:27
Cornishsimon - The demand you are talking about was in different economic times. The SZ 3/4 times dail;y was based on a bussiness model of picking passengers up at Plymouth and Newquay and in reality is all the route warrants.
BE will pull the plug and run when it gets tough and Newquay airport might have wished it had not jumped into bed with them so quicly and sh*t on SZ .

cornishsimon
29th Dec 2012, 12:05
Agreed with the comments about NQY and SZ.

Anything else new on the horizon ? Other than the EZY LPL and SEN ?

Still missing EDI for 2013 compared to 2012

Any sign of DUB, EMA, LBA etc ?


cs

vectisman
29th Dec 2012, 12:57
Cornishsimon
I do respect and admire your support for your local airport across several aviation related forums. However, you may need to accept that in these austere times air services from Newquay will not expand and may even shrink in the future. Domestic air travel will probably never see the kind of activity we saw in the 90s and early 2000s. If there was money to be made airlines would be there, but there isn't so they are not. Airlines exist to carry passengers and cargo but need to make money. If they do not, they go bust.


Some people also seem unable to move on from the demise of Air Southwest. Unfortunately it lost money so went under. If the routes that they flew made money, other airlines would have stepped in, or Air Southwest would itself have been viable and still flying. It's no good blaming other airlines or dreaming up conspiracy theories.
I do not mean to come across as antagonistic but the constant suggestions on these forums for airlines to open this route and that route at times bear no relation to economic reality.

V.

FRatSTN
29th Dec 2012, 13:16
East Midlands was served by BmiBaby during the summer hols twice a week during 2012 when they still existed. I think they even did in in 2011 as well if I remember correctly. As there are still some gaps in the timetable for the FlyBe base at EMA, I think it is likely that Newquay may be served by them during next summer. We will see.

VISCOUNT58
3rd Jan 2013, 13:50
NQY-EDI now back for summer 2013, twice weekly, wed & sat, May to Sept according to Flybe website, but not yet showing on NQY or EDI websites.

cornishsimon
3rd Jan 2013, 14:28
It's good to see EDI back but twice weekly !!!!!

Well anything is better than nothing


cs

vectisman
3rd Jan 2013, 14:33
Twice weekly in current circumstances is probably a good result. Now people have to book it in sufficient numbers at the right price.

V.

CabinCrewe
3rd Jan 2013, 18:40
what was it last year ?

cornishsimon
3rd Jan 2013, 19:31
Mostly four weekly from what I remember


cs

MUFC_fan
3rd Jan 2013, 23:03
Looks like it's operating the NWI route as well looking by the schedule...

Wycombe
17th Jan 2013, 12:17
Just spotted the following in the NQY website news section:

Flights to Turkey, to be operated by Corendon Airlines, on Fridays in April

Newquay Cornwall Airport announce new charter holidays to the Turkish Riviera for 2013 | Newquay Cornwall Airport (http://www.newquaycornwallairport.com/about/media-center/news/newquay-cornwall-airport-announce-new-charter-holidays-turkish-riviera-2013)

Phileas Fogg
17th Jan 2013, 12:43
Well that's strange because Corendon are owned by a Dutch tour operator and unless things have changed they operate to/from most if not all of the Dutch airports and one or two in Belgium, perhaps Germany, also, if they were to start operations to/from UK then surely the obvious place(s) would be one of the mega cities and not a quaint seaside town ... unless this may be similar to Isle of Man charters ... once the hoteliers own season is over they all b'gger off on a holiday of their own.

BUT ... Corendon change their schedules at the drop of a hat, not even their own crews clearly understand where they may be going to and at what time the next day, travelling with them on business often I jumpseated AMS/AYT but I never actually made it back to AMS, despite my best attempts every time I ended up back in RTM, sometimes via Groningen, and needed to hire car it RTM/AMS :)

GROUNDHOG
17th Jan 2013, 19:27
Flights sold by OSKA Travel ( ATOL 10519) registered 06/11, licensed for 3500 pax Jan to Mar 2013. No previous carrying. So far so good, hey we all started somewhere..... I would love to see this work.... but....
They are offering 7 night tours at knock down prices using 4/5 star hotels.... confirm which hotels when you arrive, pay for food inflite, entry fees, meals other than buffet breakfast all extra. Not one for the discerning then.

Four rotations out of NQY, how that works economically with empty sectors defies me, unless you are coming back to NQY by bus or have incoming traffic and AYT/NQY ,,,, nah.

First flights same week as Easter, most folk are entertaining the emmets so that is 50% of the locals out of it. Taking out those that think Turkey is what you breed for Christmas it doesn't leave a huge audience. I hope none of my council tax has gone into incentives for this.

I remember well a poster on Pprune offering to eat his hat if an airline I started got off the ground, never took him up on it and would never say it myself but I do have a particularly tasty looking trilby in the wardrobe.....:eek:

GROUNDHOG
25th Jan 2013, 11:25
Classic Aircraft Trust is moving from Coventry to Newquay, great news for the airport and another example of how to diversify to cover the costs. Pleasure flights as well I understand.

Red Four
25th Jan 2013, 11:46
294 flights in November - that is not very many a day by anyone's reckoning.

Wycombe
25th Jan 2013, 12:32
....and I guess a fair number of those were additional Skybus flights due to the closure at St Just?

cornishsimon
25th Jan 2013, 13:56
I think that LEQ has only been closed December and January so that's only going to show on the NQY stats for those months.


cs

cornishsimon
25th Jan 2013, 16:23
Are the 294 quoted flights for November commercial flights or all flights ?

I wonder if the flying school, training, military, and private movements are included or not ?


cs

NorthSouth
25th Jan 2013, 17:03
It was all flights. 276 commercial air transport, 10 commercial positioning flights and 8 test & training. No aero club, private or military.
NS

cornishsimon
25th Jan 2013, 21:01
I think you will find that the numbers aren't correct in that case.


cs

cornishsimon
15th Apr 2013, 16:46
Apple aviation to set up an MRO and aircraft recycling facility at NQY. Should be open by September 2013.


Dynamic Aerospace company sets up new base at Aerohub | Newquay Cornwall Airport (http://www.newquaycornwallairport.com/about/media-center/news/dynamic-aerospace-company-sets-new-base-aerohub)


cs

virginblue
6th May 2013, 15:21
NQY should not be surprised about the decline of their business - when I try to look up the flights for this summer season in the timetable section, I am getting told "you are not authorized to access this page".

Sorry NQY airport for bothering you with my business, those passengers must really be a pest for you airport operators....

cornishsimon
6th May 2013, 17:18
What would you like to know virginblue ?


cs

virginblue
6th May 2013, 20:08
Well, I just wanted to have a proper timetable that tells me departures times and operating days of those routes that are potentially useful to make a connection to the continent (MAN, LGW, NCL, EDI, GLA, LPL, SEN etc.) - rather than having to go through the booking engines of Flybe, easyjet etc. to find out. Apparently a timetable exists on NQY's webstie in theory, but the link is dead. Two emails to the airport were, too put it mildly, inconclusive, so I wasted an hour or so to play around with booking engines.

One would think that airports are smart enough to provide the most basic information - which airline flies from the airport on what days at which times to what destination. Alas, they are not.

cornishsimon
6th May 2013, 22:45
Seems something is broken on the website !

the Winter 12/13 is still available via the web:
http://www.newquaycornwallairport.com/sites/default/files/file_uploads/Winter%202012-2013.pdf

however summer 13 link is broken.

But....................

This page does list which routes are available seasonally and which are year round:
Flights From Newquay | Newquay Cornwall Airport (http://www.newquaycornwallairport.com/content/flights-newquay-0)
and by clicking each destination you can see basic information for each route


cs

Rubber Duck
7th May 2013, 10:22
The Web host is trying to resolve the failed linked but there is this

http://www.newquaycornwallairport.com/sites/default/files/file_uploads/NQYSummer2013.pdf

devonish
13th May 2013, 13:02
Looks like Nqy is well and truly in the dark stuff if BE sell the gatwick slots, maybe a once daily ezy from gatwick and that's it

ajamieson
13th May 2013, 13:22
I'd be surprised if anyone could sustain even a once-daily service with a A319/B737 aircraft size.

It's a thin route whose sole selling-point is frequency, which is allows for greater productivity than the equivalent train journey. Without an early morning and late evening option, what's the point?

NQY's only hope is that Flybe moves the route to another London airport.

Failing that...in an ideal world, BACF would make a go of LCY-NQY on the E190. When WOW tried the route there was silly over-capacity on the London market and low yields because it was in a head-on battle with Flybe at LGW at the time. Without competition, LCY might work.

Looking grim :(:(

Wycombe
13th May 2013, 13:28
Might not be good news in terms of a LGW link, but why would BE (all other things being equal) not continue to fly to NQY from MAN (and the other places they serve seasonally), for example?

I could see EZY's new SEN-NQY route going year-round, and maybe more presence from them at NQY next year.....sun-routes have been hinted at in their press releases and these are more likely if flown as part of a W from SEN or another EZY base.

Twice a day to NQY (on a bigger a/c) as per the previous RYR STN service would not be so bad would it?

Phileas Fogg
13th May 2013, 13:34
There you go ... another route that can't be operated from/to LGW for Shoreham City Airways to have a go at! :)

All it takes is for an operator, aircraft type appropriate to the route such as ATR42, Jetsteam, Do328, SF340/S2000 or whatever, to step in and they could really make a successful route out of it if the product and the price is right.

virginblue
13th May 2013, 13:52
Well, given that smaller aircraft are getting priced out of LGW to release capacity for more lucrative large jets, I have some doubts if you are correct. LGW would welcome a new airline with open arms that suggests to operate a 50seater on UK domestic flights - not. Plus how should a new entrant get hold of decent slots at LGW which is a seriously slot-constrained airport?

smallpilot
13th May 2013, 13:53
I suspect most of the SEN-NQY traffic will be people in london travelling to Cornwall for leisure, maybe a smaller amount travelling the other way for business in London.
I wonder how much of the traffic on the Flybe service to LGW is travelling onwards on longer haul routes?

Phileas Fogg
13th May 2013, 14:08
To hell with one or another LoCo offering a "Stupid O'Clock" once a day service to/from NQY, might I take one's back to these days ay NQY:

http://www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1053908M.jpg

The fuel bowsers became known as "Sweaty Betty" and "Fat Ann", if the diesel in the fuel tank was frozen in one of them of a morning then they'd light a bonfire beneath the bowser full of fuel, every body knew everbody it seems and there remains most definitely a market for up to a 3 times daily service to and from the London area, failing that then morning and evening to London and middle of the day to Manchester.

Keyvon
13th May 2013, 14:55
Corendon Airlines will operate 2 more charter rotations to Antalya in November (2 & 9) on behalf of Oska Travel.

GROUNDHOG
14th May 2013, 08:31
Would have thought that if Flybe pull out of Gatwick then easyjet would pick up the route, if not I may just have to come out of retirement and see what can be done....?

People in Cornwall go on holiday too, it is not just business traffic, used Flybe just a week ago to return from the Gatwick after a holiday in the Grenadines.

cornishsimon
14th May 2013, 08:45
Would have thought that if Flybe pull out of Gatwick then easyjet would pick
up the route, if not I may just have to come out of retirement and see what can
be done....?

People in Cornwall go on holiday too, it is not just
business traffic, used Flybe just a week ago to return from the Gatwick after a
holiday in the Grenadines.



Totally agree with you, which Is why I have long held the view that an airline with onward connections to longhaul would work well for NQY/Cornwall. That's why I keep suggesting LHR-NQY and BA.

I know that's a pipe dream of mine alone, but knowing how difficult/time consuming it is to get from LHR-Cornwall im fairly certain that the route would attract a decent level of passenger support, however I fear yields would be a big problem.

It would be very upsetting to see BE leave the LON-NQY route after seeing off SZ, who did very well on the LGW route 4 daily.

But to be honest, as you say a market certainly does exist for NQY-LON as has been proven in the past when BA & SZ operated on the LGW route and FR operated STN-NQY double daily.

I cant see a time when the route wont be served, but hey ho, what do I know, im just an armchair observer


cs

WOWBOY
14th May 2013, 09:01
What comes around goes around for flybe?? They purposely started the route to off WOW, and they achieved that. Now they themselves are struggling. NQY and PLH always worked together on the the LGW route.

ajamieson
14th May 2013, 09:23
smallpilotThere will be no business traffic worth speaking about on SEN-NQY as it currently stands. The "service" is a couple of days a week at useless times of the day, for a very limited number of weeks. It's barely worth even discussing.

It's the frequency of the service to London that matters.

Even if Flybe keeps some of its slots, it's going to have to concentrate on the routes that make the most cash. So in any scenario, it's looking grim for NQY unless Flybe switches London airports.

GROUNDHOG
14th May 2013, 09:35
Like cornishsimon I would love to see a NQY/LHR flight but fear it would never happen. I fly to YVR two or three times a year and would look first at NQY/MAN if there were no London flights.

To be honest though it is almost as easy to rent a car and leave it at LHR/LGW than take a flight.

Surely Skybus must hold a key somewhere here?

Phileas Fogg
14th May 2013, 09:42
NQY and PLH always worked together on the the LGW route.

Oh no they didn't!!!

NQY, after BN2 days, to LHR, not LGW, was operated by BMA and then Brymon utilising HPR7 aircraft ... now if PLH ever had a long enough runway during the 1980's to accept a loaded HPR7 then you just say the word WOWBOY!

The HPR7 was supposed to be replaced by a DHC7 however a tightening of purse strings resulted in no replacement being available for the HPR7, which had been sold to finance the PLH (1) and ABZ (2) DHC7's that were already in situ, the PLH DHC7 already operating a PLH/LHR/PLH route, thus the NQY route became, supposedly temporarily, piggy backed on to the PLH/LHR/PLH route.

Meanwhile the LGW route was operated by a DHC6 aircraft, it had nothing to do with NQY, operating PLH/LGW/PLH which then became combined with an EXT/LGW/EXT route once Air UK pulled their Bandit from the EXT route.

Years later BA poached the LHR slots so the PLH/NQY route, which remained combined because the order of a 4th DHC7 became cancelled due lack of finance, moved to LGW but this was many years after the original HPR7 (50 seater) NQY/LHR/NQY route and the subsequently combined route with PLH to/from LHR.

GROUNDHOG
14th May 2013, 09:49
Another Phileas history lesson, quite right of course. I was station manager for Westward Airways way back in those BN2 days and if my memory serves me rightly most of the traffic was Newquay or Scillies bound and not Plymouth even back then when road journeys were much longer in terms of time.

Phileas Fogg
14th May 2013, 12:56
Greetings from the tropics GROUNDHOG :)

Just been reading that some are putting faith in a new SEN/NQY/SEN service expecting to fill up to 156 seats in each direction.

Well, back in the day, when much, if not all, of the London airports were clagged out we would divert a LHR bound NQY/PLH DHC7 in to SEN to move punters by road between the two, by the time any punters from LHR arrived to SEN by coach they could have already been the best part of the way to Devon/Cornwall by coach already.

Think about it, any punters from the South East corner, the Home Counties, indeed from the midlands and further north (since the construction of the A14 linked the M1/M6 with the M11 and STN, by the time they've headed a further hour east to a peninsula somewhere in Essex, well they could already be the best part of the way to Devon/Cornwall.

Nothing against SEN, it has it's potential, namely eastbound and across water, "London to Cornwall" it is not!

trafficnotsighted
14th May 2013, 13:21
Phillias - When WOWBOY said that NQY + PLH worked together i beleive he was refering to more recent times than what you are talking about. The BA and then WOW route worked very well 4 times a day to Gatwick by picking up passengers at NQY and PLH.

GROUNDHOG
14th May 2013, 13:25
Hi Phileas...

NQY/SEN straight across the cheeks from one a*se end of the Country to the other. Must remember that service when next flying from London, oh, or I could just get the bus it would be quicker.

sxflyer
14th May 2013, 13:36
Phileas, I doubt anyone from the Midlands, much of the Home Counties, or indeed vast chunks of London would use this service to NQY but here in Essex there are rather a lot of us living 45 minutes or less from the check in desk at Southend and this service, at a mere 3x weekly, is of great benefit. We couldn't give a monkeys that the airport has London in its name. Though now I mention London, along with us Essex residents are a whole host more living throughout Havering, Barking, Dagenham who have an easy drive and rather a few from more central areas such as Canary Wharf, Shoreditch and other affluent/trendy locations for whom the airport is an easy train journey.

Phileas Fogg
14th May 2013, 13:42
The BA and then WOW route worked very well 4 times a day to Gatwick by picking up passengers at NQY and PLH

It worked so well that there is no more "WOW" and no more "PLH", it was making such a profit so much so that the operators closed it down, is that what you are suggesting tragicnotsighted?

I must remember such a business strategy for any of my forthcoming business ventures. :)

trafficnotsighted
14th May 2013, 14:17
Phileas - You are making the mistake by assuming it was a run by an aviation company that wanted to make a profit out of it. When in fact as some of us that were involved with the operation know, it was run by a development company that was looking for the first opportunity to manipulate the books to show that it was not profitable so they could close the close the airport.

Air Hop
14th May 2013, 14:34
If a new operator could be found with a 50 - 100 seat offering, would it not be worthwhile having the drop off in EXT on flights. There must be a market for London from EXT judging by the train pax numbers and would not having both destinations given an operator more confidence in terms of pax numbers?

BCALBOY
14th May 2013, 14:40
The LGW/PLH & NQY operation on the dash8 was for a few years quite profitable.

A number of factors changed this situation without any fiddling of the books : -

1/Flybe introduced a 3 times daily service on NQY/LGW with almost identical timings to WOW service . Decent load factors were maintained but only at the expense of yield and profitability.

2/The general downturn in the UK economy had a negative impact.

3/Switch of longhaul routes from LGW to LHR reduced connecting potential.

4/Probably the final nail , was Gatwick airports change in pricing strategy
Aimed at discouraging operators of small aircraft . This meant a sizeable proportion of seats had to be sold just to pay for landing fees and leaving little room to make any profit .

GROUNDHOG
14th May 2013, 17:32
Trafficnotsighted - No SHH started WOW because if they hadn't there would have been no business at PLH at all at that time. They could have shut it down without losing millions of pounds at any subsequent time had they wanted to.

Phileas Fogg
14th May 2013, 23:21
But the NQY & PLH routes were only supposed to be combined for a matter of a few months until a 4th DHC7 was supposed to arrive.

That was 30 years ago that it didn't arrive, BCALBOY talks of a number of factors whilst trafficnotsighted talks of "some of us that were involved with the operation know".

Well I was involved in the operation when the routes became combined those 30 years ago and I still recall the uproar from both the PLH and, particularly, the NQY passengers that their direct services had been taken away from them and that factor still remained until the closure of the PLH route and indeed WOW ... That the passengers wanted/want direct services.

So many years later Flybe arrived on the NQY route offering DIRECT services, OK Flybe don't operate small enough aircraft to appropriately service the route hence why it's probably proved unprofitable for them but they offered what the passengers wanted ... Direct services.

When PLH closed I recall a group getting together announcing that they could PDQ put together a Jetstream operation to recommence services ... Well here's their chance, go get their Jetstream(s) and start with services out of NQY!

cornishsimon
15th May 2013, 00:10
Phileas Fogg (http://www.pprune.org/members/93466-phileas-fogg) you are a wise, wise person !

What services do you see being at NQY in five years and operated by who ?


cs

Phileas Fogg
15th May 2013, 05:56
Simon,

Where I am (on Siargao Island), and my business that I am involved in developing, I am becoming out of touch with the UK airline scene and I'm not about to start speculating that NQY, indeed Devon and Cornwall, could become anything more than a "cottage industry" for aviation.

I believe there is a modest future for PLH if it were to re-open, those 30 years ago, initially, Brymon struggled for half fill a Twotter on the PLH/ORK route but when commercial started marketing that punters could travel by train to/from PLH to then fly PLH/ORK/PLH for less than it may cost from elsewhere, well all of a sudden Brymon were filling 50 seaters, never mind 20 seaters, on the ORK route.

Something NQY cannot offer is a thru rail connection but, as I was in discussion with certain people a couple of years or so back, there is a market for a "cottage industry" air operation in Devon & Cornwall, particularly if PLH were to re-open, perhaps operating a small fleet similar to Do228's/Do328's, obviously operating to an airport near to London, Manchester (for international connections also), across the Irish sea and to the Channel Islands, perhaps Brittany also.

A once a week Scotland (ABZ) 50 seater proved popular all those years ago so perhaps a modestly served Scottish route also but I can't foresee too much more than these.

PlymSpotter
16th May 2013, 01:44
GROUNDHOG

Yes and no on that one - they could have walked away without founding Air Southwest, but there was nothing to gain then.

In 2000 they took over the remainder of British Airway's lease on PLH, it had something like four or five years left IIRC. At the time they negotiated the 150 year lease with the fantastically juicy 'Armageddon' clause, but it wasn't formally awarded and signed until 2004, around a year after Sutton Harbor founded Air Southwest. In fact the signing was a political football in getting Air Southwest founded.

So yes, when BA (inevitably) pulled out Sutton could have claimed non viability and closed PLH, but back then they wouldn't have benefited from 25% of any proceeds in doing so.

Phileas Fogg
16th May 2013, 04:47
PlymSpotter,

So SHH founded Air Southwest in 2003 and they got their "Armageddon" clause signed in 2004 and, at any time thereafter, they could have sold up and walked away with a pocket full of dosh, got the money in the bank PDQ and sat back watching the interest accumulate!

But, with Air Southwest being a relative virgin, they tried to develop it not just thru 2004 but thru 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and indeed part of 2011.

But you're suggesting that SHH had no interest in operating Air Southwest once they had their "Armageddon" clause signed way back in 2004?

Is this how long it takes for directors to reach a decision in Devon ... 7 Years?

PlymSpotter
16th May 2013, 05:33
Walking away with a pocket full of dosh as you put it was only an option should the airport be 'unviable'. Until that time they were not entitled to benefit from such an option.

It's not that they didn't have an interest in operating Air Southwest, that is not my point or assertion - for much of the carriers existence it made money, so Sutton made money, and everybody was happy. But in the first place, the prospect of what was then dubbed 'an airline for Plymouth' pulled certain levers in the political world which saw Sutton awarded the said lease and terms.

devonish
16th May 2013, 06:34
How come every new item that comes on to this this thread, leads back to air southwest and plymouth, lets move forward and talk about the news now and in the future. both are never coming back and it's getting quite boring and repetitive

Phileas Fogg
16th May 2013, 07:02
But in the first place, the prospect of what was then dubbed 'an airline for Plymouth'

But from the first place, didn't, quite literally, every Plymouth schedule route, in one direction or another, via Newquay?

So how did that make ASW 'an airline for Plymouth'?

PlymSpotter
16th May 2013, 10:35
Devonish - Nobody is forcing you to read or participate...


Phileas - First came PLH-NQY-LGW which was the reason for their inception, then BRS, MAN and JER were launched from PLH alone. More routes via NQY came later.

JobsaGoodun
16th May 2013, 10:58
Devonish - Nobody is forcing you to read or participate...

....however this is a NQY thread and so bears little relevance to the viability of PLH or the now non-existent AirSouthwest.

cornishsimon
16th May 2013, 10:59
Don't forget that at one stage in addition to the 4 daily PLH/NQY-LGW SZ also operated an extra NQY-LGW-NQY rotation.

Don't think SZ ever operated direct PLH-LGW without routing via NQY or originating at NQY.
cs

Phileas Fogg
16th May 2013, 11:30
devonish & JobsaGoodun,

Taking in to consideration the operators of the NQY/LON/NQY route over the past 30+ years it can be difficult to talk about the NQY route without talking about it's partner PLH route and the said operators of such routes, namely Brymon & ASW both of which were PLH based operators.

I get devonish's point, that "we're" getting fed up hearing about if/when/maybe/not PLH might or might not re-open, after all this forum is for airlines, airports and routes and Plymouth doesn't have any of those.

But, aside from the PLH flag wavers, please try to bear with some of us because, as I say, it can be difficult to talk about one without talking about the other.

GROUNDHOG
16th May 2013, 12:34
Plymspotter - Sorry but first came Westward Airways flying LGW/LHR/PLH/NQY/ISC - and probably others before but I am not THAT old - in any event first came the horse and cart so let's look ahead not back.

In my view, frequency ex NQY is very important to sustaining a service to London and you can't do that with a 130 seat aircraft, it would be better to have 6 flights a day on a 19 seat aircraft than one on a 130 seat, but of course you can't do that either to LGW as the slots / costs would prohibit it. So NQY is in a bit of a catch 22 situation.

In an ideal World there would be a little commuter airport next to Gatwick, like Redhill with an adjacent station serving Gatwick and central London and fees low enough to make it all economic.

If there was an easy answer it would have been found, there isn't - suggestions on the back of an envelope.....

Heathrow Harry
16th May 2013, 12:47
just wait for gatwick second runway

Phileas Fogg
16th May 2013, 12:53
Phileas - First came PLH-NQY-LGW which was the reason for their inception, then BRS, MAN and JER were launched from PLH alone. More routes via NQY came later.

PlymSpotter,

On a scale from 1 to 10 how many passengers do you figure wanted to pay for air travel PLH/BRS and/or BRS/PLH?

Wasn't the PLH/BRS/PLH sectors just another buggeration factor denying the PLH punters a direct route to/from, was it, LBA and/or NCL and/or Scotland whereas, rather than NQY, this time ASW were dropping in to BRS to pick up/drop off punters en-route to/from the north?

Phileas Fogg
16th May 2013, 14:13
Just for you GROUNDHOG :)

http://www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1289045M.jpg

PlymSpotter
16th May 2013, 15:00
- Phileas

Bristol was actually reasonably useful if you were flying onward out of Bristol and didn't want to drive, I'm sure it wasn't profitable later in its life, but it still saw a smattering of passengers.

The reason it existed as a stop however was to serve BRS-MAN (3 daily) and BRS-PLH-JER (daily). This was back when Bristol to Manchester by train meant a change in New Street and took 4-5 hours. Once trains became direct, frequent and faster the demand for flights fell away.

The scissors hub in Bristol came later. On routes like that people didn't mind the stop though, not when the alternative was a long time on a train or driving to Exeter

GROUNDHOG
16th May 2013, 17:02
Thanks Phileas....

Approaching LHR one day with a Tristar in front and a 747 behind, " Westward 18 increase your speed to 180 knots" reply " Christ man I am going as fast as I can!";)

Sorry for the thread drift....

Wait for the second runway or maybe an Otter float plane and land on Ardingly Reservoir, take off may be a problem though when the surf is up!

trafficnotsighted
16th May 2013, 22:08
This maybe a Newquay thread but a contributing factor to NQY struggling is the closure of PLH and Airsouthwest. When it was announced that PLH was closing there were people in Newquay rubbing their hands together thinking that Airsouthwest would just move down to NQY despite plenty of people warning them it would not be good for NQY in the long term. NQY and PLH needed each other for most of the scheduled routes as there was just not the population and demand for them to make it work on their own.
NQY management jumped into bed with Flybe too quickly and it looks like they are going to pay for it now. You reap what you sew guys
There needs to be a reality check here.
The chances of PLH opening again are pretty much zilch as PCC are not interested and just play lip service to the viable group.
The chances of a Heathrow link again are zilch.
The best the Newquay can hope for is a link to Southend if they are lucky.
They must be losing hand over fist and have been for a while from what i understand

Phileas Fogg
16th May 2013, 22:37
NQY and PLH needed each other for most of the scheduled routes as there was just not the population and demand for them to make it work on their own.

trafficnotsighted,

If you're suggesting that NQY & PLH needed each other for most of the scheduled routes just to endeavour to fill 50 seats at a time then you are on the wrong track.

50 seater aircraft are too large for the Devon & Cornwall market, the market needs similar sized aircraft to 20 and 35 seats, that's what bought ASW down, they were following the same mistake as those before them, if people want to fly from Plymouth to London they don't want to go via Newquay when doing so, the routes were only supposed to be combined for one season but remained combined for 30 years!

That said, with only one airport on the Devon & Cornwall peninsula it's going to be difficult for any new air operation to make something work. NQY, by itself, can only justify utilising 1 or 2 aircraft (dependant upon size) and 1 or 2 aircraft doesn't make for an airline, throw PLH in to the melting pot then there's perhaps a market for 3 or 4 or 5 aircraft.

Without PLH then NQY is out on it's own down there and perhaps it's only hope may be if, such as British Midland in the 1970's, an operator from another part of UK or Europe may decide to operate a route or few ... Stranger things have happened, just look at Oxford/Kidlington! :)

trafficnotsighted
16th May 2013, 22:56
Phileas - The plan from your era may have been combined for one season but in the latter days of BA and ASW's time it was seen as the only way. Yes people do not want to ideally fly via NQY/PLH but based on the population and demand it was a compromise that joe public was willing to put up with to be able to fly into the region.
Oxford is yet to show that scheduled flights are viable but give them 10/10 for giving it a go.:)
I

Phileas Fogg
16th May 2013, 23:37
it was a compromise that joe public was willing to put up with

Ah, so that's why PLH's passengers figures were so astoundingly high and why the NQY punters clearly preferred Flybe's direct service!

in the latter days of BA and ASW's time it was seen as the only way

Who by, the travelling public or the airline accountants?

devonish
17th May 2013, 07:14
Quote
This maybe a Newquay thread but a contributing factor to NQY struggling is the closure of PLH and Airsouthwest. When it was announced that PLH was closing there were people in Newquay rubbing their hands together thinking that Airsouthwest would just move down to NQY despite plenty of people warning them it would not be good for NQY in the long term. NQY and PLH needed each other for most of the scheduled routes as there was just not the population and demand for them to make it work on their own.
NQY management jumped into bed with Flybe too quickly and it looks like they are going to pay for it now. You reap what you sew guys
There needs to be a reality check here.
The chances of PLH opening again are pretty much zilch as PCC are not interested and just play lip service to the viable group.
The chances of a Heathrow link again are zilch.
The best the Newquay can hope for is a link to Southend if they are lucky.
They must be losing hand over fist and have been for a while from what i understand

Spot on traffic

GROUNDHOG
17th May 2013, 13:09
Of course the airport is losing money hand over fist, but credit to the current management team for attracting outside interests to add to its revenue stream. It will never make money from passenger revenue alone. It needs to be a big industrial estate with a few flights alongside!

trafficnotsighted
17th May 2013, 14:06
That will be the same management team who were part of or connected to the consultants who made a mess of the transition of changing over to a civil airport to such an extent the CAA would not let them open when they wanted to. They also spent a lot more money on doing it than they had to ,the Airport Fire department being an example. This in turn also meant it opened with running costs that required them to have an income that was totally unrealistic for its catchement area.
One member of the Management team spent 2 years restricting salaries that meant many proffessionals turned down job offers for when it opened. It was a good job they did not have too many flights as they did not have the staff to deal with it. The same person then gave himself a £50,000 pay rise.

The region was better served aviation wise when it was an RAF base. Good connections without all the costs.

GROUNDHOG
17th May 2013, 19:33
All I said was credit for attracting new ventures. Nothing more!!

Artic Monkey
17th May 2013, 20:17
trafficnotsighted

Correct, said manager is on a big 6 figure salary whilst their staff in important positions are paid barely the minimum wage and work their socks off.

Non Emmett
19th May 2013, 09:03
As an enthusiastic Newquay Watcher, the current lack of traffic and ongoing operating losses is a depressing scenario. If memory serves me correctly the airport is losing something over £3 million a year at a time when Cornwall Council has already had to implement cuts in services overall of £170 million with plenty more to come it seems. I'm inclined to agree with comments here that industrial use at the airport is required but these things invariably take time - perhaps more time than might be deemed necessary if Cornwall Council are involved.

As a Cornishman I want to see the airport succeed. Hope springs eternal........

cornishsimon
19th May 2013, 22:23
Various posts here are spot on.

For NQY to survive as an airport, they need to develop the "other"new ventures.

So far im quite happy (as a council tax payer) that this is taking place.

Various MOD aircraft use the airfield.
AgustaWestland operate a SAR training facility.
Bristows are about to build a new SAR base
Classic airforce have recently opened
Apple aviation are in the process of setting up a MRO facility

Commercial flights are nice, but they are not the main thing that CCC/NQY should be chasing for NQY.

NQY has a vast runway, plenty of space which is ideally suited for all sorts of aviation related companies.

cs

ajamieson
20th May 2013, 07:04
Commercial flights are nice, but they are not the main thing that CCC/NQY should be chasing for NQY.
Agree completely with your wider point, but CCC should be doing both, surely? Regular scheduled air links (more than 1x daily) support inward investment beyond the airport perimeter.

GROUNDHOG
20th May 2013, 08:04
Cornishsimon is spot on, as another Cornish ratepayer I have to say that the jobs created and the income provided by these additional activities are far more important than any 'potential' from a larger air network.

Of course air routes must be maintained but further development will always be severely restricted until more industry is located in the area to provide the passengers.

Its the age old story you need the passengers before you need the flashy planes and glamorous airport buildings.

cornishsimon
21st May 2013, 00:28
Just curious here, where does the information that the CAA report actually come from ?

Take for example:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data/2012Annual/Table_03_1_Aircraft_Movements_2012.pdf
which is the 2012 aircraft movement stats

now unless im not reading this information correctly, which is entirely possible, but it very much looks like the figures state that NQY didn't handle a single military flight, likewise aero club, private, official or business flights.

now I cant comment about the others but im 100% certain that this is not correct for the military flights.

so, where do these figures come from, am I reading it correctly or am I wrong ?


cs

Red Four
21st May 2013, 06:42
Simon, I see what you mean, it does not seem that any 'non-ATM/AOC' type flights have been reported by Newquay.

cornishsimon
22nd May 2013, 00:29
suppose at least im not dreaming !



cs

GROUNDHOG
23rd May 2013, 08:02
Flybe sell 25 pairs of slots to easyjet - so what now for Newquay?

WOWBOY
23rd May 2013, 09:16
Change doesn't happen til mid 2014 apparently. I'm sure someone will fill the void, possibly easyjet.

Wycombe
23rd May 2013, 10:17
EZY may fill the LGW-NQY void, or they may choose to use the slots they have paid £20m for to operate more flights to existing or new more profitable destinations.

Whether they do or not, it's hard to see them operating a 156 seat minibus with Flybe's current frequency.

GROUNDHOG
23rd May 2013, 12:25
Back to my earlier post, what is needed is smaller aircraft with greater frequency, unless easyjet are going down that route I find it hard to see how anything the size they have or would want could provide a sustainable service on the Newquay route. It is the catch 22 I posted earlier.

Newquay to Shoreham anyone, I have the aircraft and operating licence....!

Phileas Fogg
23rd May 2013, 12:48
Newquay to Shoreham


Would that be Newquay to Brighton City Airport? :)

For London better off routing NQY to SOU, at least SOU has an airport rail station to London.

For international connections then perhaps NQY to MAN.

srobarts
23rd May 2013, 13:11
For London better off routing NQY to SOU, at least SOU has an airport rail station to London.

NQY - SOU would make sense for FlyBe, as they have an existing infrastructure at SOU already.

adfly
23rd May 2013, 13:15
SOU might see something like a twice daily service in the summer and once in the winter to NQY if anything but I can't see it being maintained at its current frequency from there, as there is going to be less demand for point-point traffic and less connection options; (although if they time them right the likes of AMS, ORY, HAJ as well as some of the leisure routes to France, Spain, Portugal and Italy could be offered via SOU)

Phileas Fogg
23rd May 2013, 13:16
Yes, but Flybe, since they got rid of their Twotter's, their Shed's, their F27's, don't operate anything small enough to successfully service such a route!

adfly
23rd May 2013, 13:33
Loganair Saab 340/Dornier 328?

cornishsimon
23rd May 2013, 14:43
BE did launch NQY-SOU a few years ago and was quickly dropped, think it was due to operate on an ex BACON EMB

It might of even been dropped before it started I can't remember.



cs

Wycombe
23rd May 2013, 15:30
Yes, pretty sure it was dropped before it started and it was due to operate on the 145.

WOWBOY
23rd May 2013, 15:39
BBC News - Newquay Airport fears after Flybe's Gatwick flights end (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-22638983)

Airport say they are in talks with two operators to step in.

GROUNDHOG
23rd May 2013, 15:54
Two operators are talking to the airport about taking over the link and they might be??? Failing that happening I agree with Phileas that Manchester is probably the best place and for a host of European destinations I would just drive to Exeter not fanny about with another UK connection.

cornishsimon
23rd May 2013, 15:58
Can only think it would be U2 and one of the IAG companies ?

Can't see ryanscare starting LGW-NQY ?


cs

Wee Weasley Welshman
23rd May 2013, 16:18
easyJet make Bristol to Newcastle work on an A319 and Newquay to Gatwick is only 40 miles shorter so don't rule it out. Especially with the new Bombardier C series rumoured..


WWW

VickersVicount
23rd May 2013, 18:01
Darwin or Minoian seem to have unrealistic ambitious plans- sounds about right for LON-NQY

Skipness One Echo
23rd May 2013, 19:56
Can't see ryanscare starting LGW-NQY ?
They flew twice daily STN-NQY but with APD they dropped all mainland UK domestic, there's little chance of offering a borderline domestic route from a very congested Gatwick. The pricing structure introduced by GIP means anything smaller than an A319 is sub-optimal due to massively increased charges. That suggests it's not LGW, plainly not LHR, LCY didn't work for WOW, so welcome to LTN or STN....

Frankly I'd just take the train and save yourself the rip off charges at NQY.

Heathrow Harry
24th May 2013, 12:17
By 2021 there'll be a rail link into LHR from Reading/Slough - that really will make it easier to take the train....................

JobsaGoodun
24th May 2013, 12:31
The way I see it, if you're looking for more than a once daily service to LGW then your only option is EZY.

There are lots of ideas about other airlines but remember who has the slots. Vacant slots to facilitate any other airline operating double daily services that would suit the business traveller simply don't exist. NQY can talk to as many airlines as they like but I suspect only one (EZY) has a slot portfolio large enough that it can manipulate in order to provide services.

The other thing to bear in mind is that all the slots EZY will get from BE are early inbounds from remote locations. EZY's business model will not support a based aircraft in LGW and to over night a LGW crew in NQY on a daily basis will only serve to increase costs of operating the route. Regrettably, I think you'll find that if EZY do anything, it will be once a day, or potentially twice a day at best, but in my own view, the likelihood of an early flight to LGW beyond March 2014 is remote.

Should the blame be laid at the door of Flybe or NQY airport?. Personally I don't think so. Any regional operator would have had to absorb precisely the same fee and fuel cost increases as Flybe have and I doubt that they would have made things work any better. It's worth noting that in November 2013, LGW Airport announced a 4.8% increase in half yearly profits of £172million.

The blame can be laid squarely at lack of any coherant aviation policy in this country to protect regional connectivity to the capital, along with the excessive tax burden that successive governments have placed on the industry.

Artic Monkey
24th May 2013, 12:39
Very well said, JobsaGoodun

Barling Magna
24th May 2013, 13:39
NQY to London Southend starts on 20th June. Maybe EZY will run this service through the winter in future....?

Barling Magna
4th Jun 2013, 21:29
Visited the Classic Air Force at Newquay today. A really nice set of folks there and a good setup. It was great to sit in the Dakota's cockpit and to see the rest of the collection. It was a bonus to see the Thomson Dreamliner doing touch and gos.

Having never been to Newquay Airport before, I was dismayed by the lack of signposting to the Classic Air Force. The result was that I followed the Airport signs and drove to the passenger terminal. Now I knew the Classic Air Force was there somewhere, but it took me two more attempts to find it - it's a big airport with several roads around it. Once I'd finally arrived over the far side of the site, on enquiring I was told that the County Council refuse to allow any signs to be put up until the museum has approved its attractiveness as measured by "footfall". The museum has put its own signs up but Council officials have removed them! Seems a crazy situation to me - why would the Council make it more difficult for the Museum to prove its attractiveness? Apparently they are currently attracting about 80 visitors per day, but I'm sure they would get more if the museum was appropriately signposted.

The museum isn't entirely blameless though; their leaflet leaves a lot to be desired - no map, for a start, and no directions either......

I wish the Classic Air Force well; they deserve to succeed. And good luck to NQY too. It was pretty quiet today apart from the 787, just one Dash 8 and one Hawker Hunter while I was there.

PlymSpotter
4th Jun 2013, 22:39
Never underestimate the ability of Cornwall County Council to utterly cock something up.

80 visitor numbers a day doesn't sound healthy, it was obvious that the winter season would be dead, but we're in early June now and things should be really starting to pick up.

GROUNDHOG
5th Jun 2013, 06:53
It is still pretty quiet out and about at the moment, most emmetts haven't arrived yet but when the petrol prices start to rocket and the cars with the grockle boxes on show up it you will know it has started.

The signage issue is unforgivable but typical of the Council as already stated, I have never understood either why there isn't someone walking up and down the beaches in Newquay and round Truro in the School Holidays offering pleasure flights on something small and suitable.....

xtypeman
5th Jun 2013, 07:44
Sounds like a plan Groundhog especially as we know a man who can. I am hiding already........

Wycombe
5th Jun 2013, 10:36
Groundhog, I will try not to take offence at your "emmett" and "grockle" jibes, as one who comes with my family to spend my cash and help the economy in Cornwall for at least a week every year :hmm:

I was in the St Ives area last week (schools half term) and it was anything but quiet. Almost as many Deutsch "emmetts" as Brit "emmetts", as usual.

I love Cornwall, so less biting of the hand that feeds please.

cornishsimon
5th Jun 2013, 10:56
You make a valid point about the Germans.

Me thinks that Cornwall and NQY could make more of the German opportunities. Once a week during peek summer on LH ex DUS, think there's other opportunities NQY-Germany.


cs

GROUNDHOG
5th Jun 2013, 11:24
Wycombe - Sorry if you find my comment offensive it is only a joke, I am an emmett myself despite living in Cornwall for may years and always will be, down here it is seen as a term of endearment for visitors and incomers... meanwhile back at the airport...

paully
5th Jun 2013, 11:26
Cornwall has to be one of the most unwelcoming societies on the planet..where else do people drive round with `Non Emmett` stickers on their cars and even mention such names in ordinary conversation??..its probably one of the reasons a lot less people now visit and Newquay Airport will always struggle to be anything more than the last outpost of the aviation empire...Sadly such things are also noticed in airlines route planning departments..

Phileas Fogg
5th Jun 2013, 12:15
Cornwall has to be one of the most unwelcoming societies on the planet

Have you ever tried North Wales? ... As soon as an English speaking tourist may walk in they'll change their converse to the Welsh language!

Where I live I'm often referred to as a "pom", an Australian friend only popped in to my resort yesterday and the "Pom/Aussie" banter started, nothing to be offended about much the same as nothing offensive about "Emmett" and "Grockle.

About the only thing wrong with Cornwall is the weather during the winters.

cym
5th Jun 2013, 12:26
hell fire we agree for once! Am Welsh and proud of it but have also experienced the move to welsh as soon as a non welsh speaker enters some of the rural pubs and restaurants! So rude

sxflyer
5th Jun 2013, 12:30
Before FR and NQY fell out I used to think they could make a good go of flights from Hahn, though at that time they only did daily flights year-round so perhaps they felt there wasn't enough in the winter for them though Kerry seemed to work, or perhaps no route support was forthcoming.

Nowadays of course FR do low frequency seasonal routes, which would fit NQY perfectly from the likes of Hahn, Neiderrhein, Charleroi and possibly even Skavsta. If someone at Cornwall County Council had some imagination it is just the sort of opportunity that should be explored.

Didn't NQY receive Swiss flights at one time?

Wycombe
5th Jun 2013, 12:31
Fair enough, Groundhog.

I actually don't agree with paully - although one does see the car stickers and the like, I generally find the locals friendly, although there are probably a few pubs in the poorer parts of the County that I might stay out of.....but that would be the same anywhere in the UK to be honest.

Phileas is right about Wales though.....I visit west Wales a lot, and often notice the language turn to Welsh as I enter a shop, pub etc, even now.

Meanwhile, back at NQY, I agree with cornishsimon. Look at how many flights the Channel Islands get from Germany during the Summer....yes, I know they are islands, but getting to Cornwall by car/bus/train from somewhere like Munich must be a lengthy and arduous journey.

Phileas Fogg
5th Jun 2013, 12:39
Look at how many flights the Channel Islands get from Germany during the Summer

Revisiting their WWII occupation perhaps! :)

PlymSpotter
5th Jun 2013, 13:31
One issue with attracting more German/Dutch visitors is how they get about once in Cornwall should they fly. The hire car options are quite limited at NQY - I tried arranging just such a set up for German friends last year, but they ended up driving instead... and found it enjoyable, much to their surprise. Canterbury, Stonehenge, Glastonbury, Clovelly - they found as many sites to see on the trip down and back as they did in Cornwall.

The whole Emmett/Grockle terminology is a light hearted nickname. There is however genuine frustration when it comes to the influx of summer visitors.

Wycombe
5th Jun 2013, 15:54
There is however genuine frustration when it comes to the influx of summer visitors

Well I guess the locals can't have it both ways, that influx is probably the main source of income for many of them!

For me, it all comes down to lack of good transport infrastructure:
- sections of the busiest parts of the A30 in Cornwall that are still single-carriageway
- trains capable of 125mph that can't do more than 75mph west of Plymouth,
- an airport that can accept all current types of pax aircraft (ok, maybe not an A380), but is hampered by extreme seasonality and being run by a Council.

Heathrow Harry
5th Jun 2013, 16:02
same people that complain about second home sbut are more than willing to sell you there place..................

I just can't see Newquay surviving - there aren't a lot of non UK visitors cp Scotland or Ireland and the road connections to the airport are poor. The train service is good (far better than to say N Scotland or even N Wales) and offers much higher frequencies than any airline will ever manage

davidjohnson6
5th Jun 2013, 16:33
Heathrow Harry - Newquay not sustainable you say ?
What shall we do ? Maybe someone might want to build an airport near Plymouth. Oh hang on, I think someone tried that before...

GROUNDHOG
5th Jun 2013, 18:44
So lets try to answer some of the previous assumptions with fact.

St Ives was busy over half term .... well if it wasn't busy as that is a peak week and it is one of the most popular places in Cornwall to see. But why all the Germans? Maybe the arrival of cruise liners Delphin (520 passengers), Berlin (450 passengers) that week into Falmouth has something to do with it. Artania bought 1188 of our German friends the week before and 590 arrive on Astor next week - should I go on?

There may well be a demand for a limited number of high season flights to the Fatherland as Cornishsimon suggest but I venture that demand is limited and would not change the airport's fortunes.

Paully:- to quote John McEnroe..... " You cannot be serious"

Phileas:- You are getting to used to that Tropical Island, the Winters here are great (compared to my other home anyway) its the Summer that is the problem.

Plymspotter:- Car hire at Newquay Airport is limited. Not surprising when just down the road in Truro you have a choice of Hertz,Avis,Europcar etc and half a dozen local companies most of whom will deliver to the airport if required!

Getting here, true the rest of the UK has more attractions than Cornwall does but then it is a bit bigger. The trains are slow though we are promised this is being attended to and Mr Cameron has granted the cash to widen the pinch point on the A30 at Temple to match the rest of the dual carriageway/ motorway which will then reach all the way to Scotland! Add the planned improvements to the A303 and Reading to Heathrow rail link and journeys will be much swifter

Many German and Dutch people arrive in motorhomes and towing caravans, the journey is no problem and IS the holiday. Last year we took our motorhome the other way through France, Switzerland,Germany etc.... do you know what in France I went into a shop and the b@ggers started talking FRENCH! Disgusting!!

Finally yes the airport is hampered in being run by the Council but we all have to understand Newquay is and always will be small regional airport with a limited catchment area so they have a bit of a battle on.

It has three choices:-
Continue at a loss, attracting the scraps where possible
Diversify into other areas, the Helicopter Maintenance Base is a good example
Go to Devon with Plymouth - oh sorry that should read Heaven not Devon.

Sent from Kernow - Land of the friendly folk.

SWBKCB
5th Jun 2013, 19:20
Mr Cameron has granted the cash to widen the pinch point on the A30 at Temple to match the rest of the dual carriageway/ motorway

Lucky b*ggers...

which will then reach all the way to Scotland!

You'll be going up the Western side then?

Wycombe
5th Jun 2013, 20:53
Interesting stuff Groundhog. Didn't know about the cruise ships, which may have contributed to the German numbers, but there were an awful lot of "D"-regged motors (and a few campervans) driving around aswell.... plus the usual "D"-regged bus squeeze down the narrow, windy road into beautiful Porthcurno, when we went on our annual pilgrimage down there.

What will be really interesting is to see what happens to the London "trunk" route from NQY when Flybe pull off it next March.

By the way, whatever you may be told by the Govt about the trains, they will not get any faster west of Exeter until someone straightens out the lines and levels them a bit....although it does make a great journey if you're not in a hurry!

GROUNDHOG
5th Jun 2013, 21:33
Yes the NQY/LGW is the critical one and as has been much discussed here. A bit of a catch 22 situation. It needs the frequency but cannot support 100 plus seat aircraft and the chance of getting slots in Gatwick for anything suitable is virtually nil.

I really do not know the answer :hmm::confused:

PlymSpotter
5th Jun 2013, 23:11
Wycombe - if only trains did 75mph until Plymouth. The average speed is about 55mph, past Newton Abbott and much of the line is capped at 40mph. There is growing uncertainty at the future of the railway anyway; the Transport Secretary recently ruled out a diversionary route to avoid Dawlish as 'uneconomical', so it will continue to be at the mercy of the weather and sea level rise.

Groundhog - tried that. Nearest available car was Plymouth, no delivery option to NQY.

controlx
6th Jun 2013, 07:26
Newquay will never make up the £3m or so shorfall in it's numbers through aviation-related revenues, they have to be much more adventurous with the property portfolio and the land they've gort there - things like a top end aero park with homes with pools and hangars for those wealthy private aviators, exhibition, conference, film studio facilities, some motorsports activity etc. etc. The weather's better down there in terms of sunshine than most of the rest of the UK, the beach is minutes away, there are a raft of trendy new top end hotels etc.

The demographics of the people who go down either for holiday or to there second homes is very broad in wealth terms - half the home counties set are down their as often as they can get down.

With Gatwick's links pulled next year, what you need is runs to the likes of Oxford and Cambridge on the London region periphery, where the money is, where the second home owners come from. Southend/EZY will suffice to a small extent but ideally one needs a London City run again - Fridays, Sundays, Mondays, trouble there is the costs.

However, its the property development that can only subsidise the costs of runing what is pretty significant infrastructure - it's not a little runway. You can't just rely on pulling in aviation maintenance or support companies as the world and their dog are trying that game all over the rest of the country.

virginblue
6th Jun 2013, 07:45
Every other sunday evening or so, the weekend's TV movie on the German National TV channel 2 is a Rosamunde Pilcher movie set in the most beautiful parts of Cornwall (with the most popular German TV actors acting as British aristocrats or countryfolk). Despite the beautiful scenery I am at a loss why millions of (older) Germans watch those TV movies because they are always the same - after x years working in London and with an unhappy marriage/partnership in tow, someone returns to his/her hometown in Cornwall, meets a new squeeze, Drama unfolds for an hour or so in beautiful gardens, on horseback, in old convertbile cars or on boats and then - happy end. The next days some watchers undoubtedly storm German travel agencies to book a summer holiday in Cornwall and end up pestering you.

GROUNDHOG
6th Jun 2013, 08:18
And most welcome they are too....and the Dutch and French who seem to be increasing in numbers all the time, see quite a motorhomes with NL and F plates these days...

Omnipresent
6th Jun 2013, 12:12
What about a seasonal Saturday service from LHR?

BA has obviously decided there is value in using Saturday morning slots at LHR for leisure routes. The Mark Warner charters have been running for a couple of years. IBZ and PMI also launched this year, with LPA following in the winter.

cornishsimon
6th Jun 2013, 13:11
LHR-NQY would work and would see good loads, probably not good yields however.

Connecting traffic would be good on the route but seasonally once a week I can't see.


cs