Night on CRI?

[Genghis the Engineer]

I can't seem to find any regulation that says I either can, or can't, do this - perhaps somebody here knows?

I know that as a CRI (or even on SE, as a non-instructor) I could legally become an IRI (I'm unlikely to, since I only have an IMC and have nowhere near enough instrument flying experience to teach it, but that's irrelevant for the moment).

Given that precedent - could I as a CRI become qualified to teach for the night qualification?

Anybody know? (And yes, I could do the full FI course, and might one day, but that's not today's question).

G

[blagger]

No you can't. Just look at your CRI privileges - it 'entitles the holder the instruct licence holders for the issue of a type or class rating for single pilot aeroplanes'.

[Genghis the Engineer]

It doesn't say I can do differences training or biennial flights with an instructor either.

You are probably right, but I'm not convinced that your reason is correct if you are and would like to find a definitive answer somewhere official..

For example, a CRI(MEP) without an FI can add IRI and teach for an IR(ME)...

G

[mad_jock]

You can only do the FI course and then the restriction removal to be able to do it.

But seriously I do wonder why anyone bothers. It means you have to fanny around late at night. The risk factor goes through the roof and thats from a instructing point of view never mind the additional risk of flying at night in a SEP. And you don't get payed any extra for it.

If I did everything again I wouldn't have got the restriction removed.

[Genghis the Engineer]

For some perverse reason, I like night flying!

G

[blagger]

Differences training is embedded within class rating training, no need to state it. The biennial flight just has to be with an instructor of some flavour - you could do sign it as part of a class rating course, again that's why they don't state it. If you look at FI(A) privileges it specifically lists night flying and the requirements for an FI(A) to be qualified for night instruction.

[mad_jock]

I like night flying as well. Just my risk level assesment now means I much prefer have two engines, preferably turbines, and full IFR instrumentation.

As an FI it opens a heap of potential for getting mucked around by the boss and very long days with very little gain. How much does it cost now to get rid of it? 400-500? If so thats 25-50 hours to make it pay for itself, but the actual hours worked/sat at the airport waiting for it to get dark will far outstrip any benefit gained. Even instructing way up north it was a pain having it. And that was at a school who had a fatality doing night ratings.

[Genghis the Engineer]

One thing you always get here is honest and informed opinions - as well as strong ones of-course! Thanks Mad Jock, that's really clear and to the point.

G

[blagger]

It is great as a part time FI though as it gets me flying after work hours in winter!

[Whopity]

The night qualification has always been regarded as ab-initio training though I can't find a specific reference for that. The Night qualification is an extension to the licence privileges and is not part of an aircraft rating which is what the CRI is qualified to teach for. It is certainly the CAA's view that the CRI privileges do not include ab-initio night instruction and CRIs have not been taught to teach it.

If the CRI and the student receiving training are both night qualified, there is then nothing to prevent instruction being given at night.

There was an issue some years ago with IR instruction being given at night when the instructor was not night qualified. It was pointed out that the privilege of the Instructor rating with "Night" qualification was to give instruction at night and not specifically for the Night Rating/Qualification and thus was required for any instruction at night.

When the JAA dreamt up the CRI, it was intended to differentiate between a TRI MPA and a TRI for SPA for use by AOC holders to train company pilots and not for the many purposes it is currently being used for. Consequently, initial night instruction was never even considered as a possibility.

[mad_jock]

Thats a fair enough reason.

Still don't think its worth it though unless your looking at doing that for over 3 years. No applied instruments removal is even more difficult to justify.

[BillieBob]

Under JAR-FCL 1, the night qualification is an integral part of the PPL(A), the training course being detailed as part of the PPL course at JAR-FCL 1.125. This would suggest that since the CRI cannot give instruction for the PPL, he cannot give instruction for that part of the PPL course that comprises the night qualification.

Under the EASA implementing rules, things are a little clearer. The night rating is a stand-alone rating and completely separate from the PPL. The privileges of a CRI under Part-FCL are to give instruction for the issue, revalidation or renewal of a class or type rating on a single pilot, non complex, non-high performance aircraft and for the towing or aerobatic rating. The privileges do not include instruction for the night rating.

The answer to the original question would, therefore, appear to be, 'No'.