Learning to fly (PPL) anywhere in the world

[jmc265]

Hi

I am currently in the UK and I have a couple of months coming up (May, June) in which I am doing nothing. So I want to learn how to fly (fixed wing). I am not tied down to any location and have in fact been thinking about going to New Zealand to do it.
But before I look into that route too much, I was wondering if anyone has any opinions on where would be the best country/location to learn? I originally thought of NZ because of the fantastic scenery but I am still very open about location.

Thanks,
James

[Dave Gittins]

I would suggest you learn where you are likely to fly.

First you get used to the "way things are done", the weather, the ATC and stuff and you don't have to revalidate to a different country and unlearn a lot of things when you get home.

That said, if you plan to do an accelerated course in 50 hours and 3 weeks, do it where the weather is best and the planes are most available but prepare fully beforehand. There are planty of other threads here with sterling advice as to how to do that.

[172driver]

If you can still get all the paperwork sorted (should be ok), then go to the US. You'll learn more than in Europe and can convert your FAA license to any other later on.

[fwjc]

Mike makes a valid point, imo. Learning elsewhere means you have to learn again the local issues, such as chart differences, ATS differences and even runway differences (most US runways I've seen are so huge, if you come back to a typical UK one you might wonder how you can get down).

Bear in mind that May June in New Zealand is winter time. I don't know what the weather's like, but the days will be shorter so opportunity to train may be reduced.

[172driver]

I just don't buy this 'learn to fly where you will fly' argument. If you can't learn and adjust to different environments in your flying, then perhaps you should stay on the ground. It is exactly this line of thought that keeps people from actually doing something with their airplanes - i.e. going somewhere, as they are too afraid of the 'wild world out there'. IMHO one of the main reasons why we don't get more new pilots.

Don't learn where it's easiest, go where you learn the most and at present, that happens to be the US. Why? You'll be learning real world navigation, radio nav, night flight and flying and operating in the 'system', IOW interacting with ATC, something that is woefully absent in most European flight training. As an added plus you won't have operate in a 10th century environment that sees GPS as work of the devil.

Anyway, your call, I hope you get it done. Looking fwd to seeing you on here in 6 months as a new PPL :ok:

[redelect]

just do it

[jmc265]

Thanks. I was considering the US as well, it seems that it is a popular place to go to learn.
But NZ looks like it would be such an amazing place to fly over.

[Dave Gittins]

172driver

Interesting perspective ... thing is not to directly transpose some of the US standards to the UK through inexperience.

For example in the US leaving a towered field and setting off across country without a farewell call and a quick expression of intentions (no other call after acknowledging the clear to takeoff) came as a total surprise to me the first time my instructor did it.

Making an inital call to a major airport 10 miles out and getting a squawk and then turning straight into his overhead without asking for a transit rather shocked me too (Don't worry about it Dave, he'll soon enough tell us if he don't like it) would probably get you a phone call and a talk from the CFI in the UK.

I rather suspect your life from 50 - 100 hours back in the UK would be less exciting without such possible traps to fall into.

Having said that .... sure after you've got the license to learn and some confidence in flying where you call home .... spread your wings as far as you can and challenge (but don't overwhelm) yourself. Don't know you should start that way before you even know the pointy end goes first.

[fattony]

go to the US. You'll learn more than in Europe

Why is that? Is the PPL syllabus in the US significantly different from that in Europe?

[172driver]

Dave,

This is probably a discussion we can have until the cows come home ;)

My POV is that you simply get exposed to many, many more real world scenarios in the US than over here. Learning some different R/T and procedures is relatively easy and won't take 50 hours.

What's more, in my experience, it is rather the UK that's different from the rest of the world than the US. Simply to learn to operate within an ATC environment - as you do not only in the US but in large parts of Europe as well! - is worth going there. The UK is pretty alone in this almost total segregation of private and CAT.

[Dave Gittins]

Should really let the owner of that remark respond first but IMHO not much in the syllabus except that night is included in an FAA PPL.

The main thing is (as I indicated above) the USA is a lot more free and easy. Most GA fields are untowered so you just make blind calls, turn your own lights on and off and get the "ATIS" automatically.

HUGE tracts of space have no restrictions at all. There are no landing fees.

If you land away, the FBO will often lend you a car wihout charge to go into town for a burger.

I don't know if the fields are classed as licensed .. but there ain't no fire cover.

There are usually airlanes that get you through major airspace without having to call anybody (imagine an uncontrolled route starting at Elstree and ending at Fairoaks via Heathrow's overhead at 4,000 - 5,000 feet.)

The distances and lack of restictions are such that you can actually start to think of an aeroplane as a means of transport for getting from A - B quicker than the car or train.

But its sooooo different that if the other 50 weeks of your year are going to be spent at Redhill, I wouldn't advocate it as your ab initio environment.

[fattony]

So maybe the important thing isn't so much where you learn but to gain experience in as many different environments, conditions and countries as possible?

learn to operate within an ATC environment

I must admit, when I started my PPL I was surprised to discover that from most GA airfields you didn't have to talk to ATC (because there isn't one) and that you could quite legitimately go flying without telling anyone what you're up to. I think most "non-flyers" don't realise that.

I also get the feeling that some pilots try their hardest to avoid controlled airspace and I'm left wondering why. Do you think it's lack of experience in that environment? Or is it convenience? I have no idea on the subject because, as a low-hours student, I've never tried it.

night is included in an FAA PPL

That's interesting. I didn't know that.

an uncontrolled route starting at Elstree and ending at Fairoaks

Sounds excellent. Let's campaign for that! :)

[riverrock83]

In the UK it does depend on where you learn. Prestwick can get busy at certain times with commercial traffic but the rest of the time its fairly quiet. I've been using the radio to some degree in my lessons from flight 2. If you want to learn in an ATC environment - it can certainly be done in the UK. I've been taught that its always best to be talking to someone (including in Class G). I'm sure that if you aren't used to R/T then it would be a big jump to cross controlled airspace - but I understand that it is rarely refused.
I agree with learning to fly where you are going to do most of your flying, then gain more experience else where if you want to. There are lots of local practices that are easiest to learn from the start. If you learn in the US but will do most of your flying in UK - you will / should have a refresher course when you jump the pond.

[fwjc]

My POV is that you simply get exposed to many, many more real world scenarios in the US than over here.Except Weather. We have a lot of that here, and in a few weeks at a flight school in Florida you're less likely to experience the sheer changeability and variety that we have in the UK. That said, at the OP's age, going out to the US for a few weeks, blasting through a PPL over there (JAA or FAA btw?) and then coming back and doing the equivalent "differences" training between the two states of operation, would be an amazing experience and would result in a PPL in a short space of time. That's assuming all goes well. It would also result in a great set of memories, which is also a good thing. Just imo, that's all.

[jmc265]

I would want the JAA as I would want to fly when I get back over here.

Thanks for all your comments guys, I will start looking at the US (more specifically, Florida) as well now.

[172driver]

Most points have been covered by now, I think, but I think the weather argument is germane only to Florida (and that can get nasty). If you learn in SoCal for example, you will have a lot of different wx to contend with!

@ David: you are correct, but that was not was I was driving at. If you learn in one of the busier areas (e.g. SoCal, Forida), you will be exposed to 'the system' from day one. Helps no end later in your flying life. As for it being soooooo different - to a degree true in the UK, certainly not true in continental Europe.

@ jmc265: I'd go for an FAA license (much wider choice of schools) and do the 100 hour conversion to JAA afterwards. You can fly on the FAA ticket in a G-reg.

[B4aeros]

When you come back EASA rules will be in effect, which means that any non-EASA licence you return with will need to be validated or converted before you can fly as P1.

At a minimum that will involve a couple of exams, a skills test & 100+ hours as a pilot. If you don't have the 100 hours you are theoretically supposed to go through the EASA PPL syllabus, although "...the requirements of course duration, number of lessons and specific training hours may be reduced."

[172driver]

B4aeros, are you saying that post-EASA you won't be able to fly a G-reg on an FAA license? I have never seen that anywhere, would appreciate a reference.

[mrmum]

Here;
European Legislation - The Expected Effects on the Licensing of Pilots in the UK - September 2011
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/620/20110902FAQsv3.pdf
Q26 seems to be the reference you want.

[B4aeros]

It's implicit in the regulations isn't it? An EASA licence will be needed to fly an EASA aircraft, para 1.2 nof the CAA's guide (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=620&pagetype=90&pageid=11675) spells it out.

The old CAA automatic validation will continue to apply for holders of ICAO licences flying Annex II aircraft but there's not many of them available for hire. I see from the CAA's FAQs, no.26 (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=620&pagetype=90&pageid=12231) that the 2 year transition process also applies to non-EASA licences, so jmc265 will at least have a couple of years before he has to convert a NZ/FAA licence.

[172driver]

Thanks chaps, got it.

To the OP: this means you'll have to do your 100 hour conversion before April 2014. Should work.

[jmc265]

I am sorry, because of all the acronyms I couldn't quite follow that. This is the way I understand it:
If I go to Florida I can get a JAA license (which is valid for UK flying) or an FAA license which I can then convert into JAA.
If I go to NZ I'll have to get a CAA license and then convert it to JAA when I get back to the UK.

So where does the 100 hour conversion come in? It sounds like a lot considering the original training is only 45/50 hours.

[funfly]

Go to Gerry Breen in Portugal and learn to fly a three axis microlight, sun and fun (yes that's what I first did) you can easily convert to class A aircraft in the UK if you want to.

[Gomrath]

So where does the 100 hour conversion come in?
If you were to get a FAA Private cert and then wish to convert to a JAA PPL, you have to undertake all of the 7 JAA required written exams etc.
However, if you have 100 hours then you only need to complete 2 of those exams plus the RT theory exam, get a JAA Class 2 medical, complete differences training and pass the PPL Skills Test.

If you want to end up with a JAA license then simply get the JAA in the first place. If you were to go to Florida or California for a JAA license- you need to get the writtens done in the UK before you arrive. Then plan on differences training back in the UK when you return.
It's all doc'd if you search.