Flying between USA and Canada as a non-US/Canadian citizen?

[Contacttower]

Has anyone taken a flying trip while in the US which involved flying to Canada and back, I was just wondering how easy this was to do from a customs/immigration point of view?

Does one have to come in/out by ports of entry? (I guess there is no GAR form equivalent)

As a non-citizen does one need any special Visas or anything beyond what a UK citizen needs to get into the US?

[englishal]

You will need a B1/B2 visa as the US Visa Waiver scheme is only for scheduled flights / ships.

[BackPacker]

Actually, not quite but nearly so.

The VWP is indeed only applicable if you go by scheduled airline/boat, or if you enter the US over land. Reason is if the immigration officer refuses you access for whatever reason, you have to have a means of leaving the country pronto - which usually means with the same aircraft, vessel or car you arrived in. (Airlines, for instance, have to sign contracts with the US government to this effect otherwise they're not allowed to participate in the program.) In a private aircraft that's not always possible. So in general, like Englishal said, entering the US in a private aircraft requires a proper visa, and cannot be done under the VWP.

However, there are several stories here on PPRuNe of people who were in Canada, drove (by car) to the US border to get admitted to the US under the VWP, made a U-turn, drove to the airport and then entered the US by plane. After all, once you are admitted under the VWP this is a multiple-entry thing, and valid for 90 days.

I honestly don't know if this scheme is still legal, or whether the laws have changed since. It must have been a good 3 years since I last heard of this. But if you happen to be landing in Canada at an airport reasonably close to the US border, it might be worth checking if this is still possible and legal.

Of course the other requirements of the VWP program will still apply. You have to be a citizen from a certain set of countries, the purpose has to be short-term tourism or business, etc. And don't forget that you have to have to apply for authorization to travel under the VWP through the ESTA system.

Having said that, simply getting a B1/B2 visa may well be the easiest and fail-safe way to do this.

[david viewing]

I'm one of those who reported driving to the border, getting a Visa Waiver, driving back to the plane and flying into the US via a port of entry (Bellingham). All this was new to my friends in the Pacific School of Flying who had apparently never before encountered the issue of a UK national flying a Canadian aircraft in the US.

But that was 12 years ago. In any case it was only neccessary since I had travelled initially to Canada, not the US. If I had travelled first to the US, and the driven to Canada, I would already have had a Visa waiver.

Since then the US has introduced ESTA and there is no more visa waiver. Esta authorises you to enter the US and doesn't appear to specify how, but the problem in 2000 was that there were no facilities to issue visa waivers at ports of entry which is why you had to get it at the border. If you already had one, it was valid even at Bellingham. With Esta it may be different because the 'travel authorisation' is issued before you leave London. A phone call to US customs at Bellingham might clarify all this.

Be aware that if you plan to fly a US aircraft into Canada then the plane will need to be insured for Canada (Most insurances specify the 48 contiguous states) and it will need to be stickered for flight in Canada. This could involve some expense for your FBO.

And then there's eApis and Canpass of which I have no experience, but may well fall over when you can't provide a zip code or social security number. I'd be very pleased to hear more about this from anyone who has done it recently since I was discussing the very issue with my own FBO earlier this week. In a recent trip I got to Astoria, Oregon, and would have continued the further 150 mi to Victoria but for this bureaucratic quagmire.

[Sam Rutherford]

I have friends who did this end of last year, using APIS... Minor hassle (ie time taken to do it), but no problems.

Fly safe, Sam.

[dont overfil]

Hi Contacttower,
There was a long running thread on here last year about this. I think Socal or one of his US buddies put it on here chapter and verse,

I seem to remember the rules were the same as going to the Bahamas which I have done many times on a visa waver.

The problem lay with some border control individuals not being as familiar with the process as those in south Florida.

I'm sure somebody more knowledgable than me will be along shortly.

Edited following Sams reminder about eAPIS. Simple. Get an eAPIS account from US CBP (foc) and it is like a GAR but can be done electronically.

Usually you have to arrive at an airport of entry but no need to depart from one.

D.O.

[172driver]

Contacttower, I suggest you dig up the old thread where this was done in detail with references and all.. IIRC the upshot was - yes you can do it.

[Contacttower]

Thanks guys. I think the search function can be a bit fickle sometimes because I did try to find the answer on here before posting...I searched again though and I think I found the earlier one...http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/447291-visa-waiver-program-us-possible-not.html

[AdamFrisch]

Now, IF you have a visa, you have to relinquish your I-94 form as you leave. It's that white piece of paper they staple into your passport when you arrive on a visa. I just checked, and this can be done at any FBO that regularly deals with international business flights - just ask Atlantic or Millionaire to send it in for you. If you can't find them near you, you need to visit a customs agent and give it to them.

The agent I spoke to was a little uncertain about if this was entirely necessary if your visa is valid for longer than your expected stay abroad, but I'd take the cautious route here and hand it in so the don't get any ideas when you return.

[Mark 1]

If it's only a short excursion into Canada or Mexico, I believe they will leave the I-94 in place. It saves the hassle of filling in another white card when you return.

There are other 'technical' requirements that often get overlooked, like having the FCC radio licences for both pilot and aircraft.

[david viewing]

Unfortunately none of the posts here or in the earlier thread address the issue of Esta. Is an Esta approval good for a foreign national to make a temporary departure into Canada and back in a private aircraft? Or for a departure from Canada into the US, having not landed previously in the US on a commercial flight on the same trip?

The Esta form itself is keen to point out that entry to the US is at the final discretion of the immigration officer. Will the nice folks at Bellingham (or any other port of entry elsewhere on the US/Canada border) accept a successful Esta application and allow a foreigner to enter the country through their backwater airstrip? Are they able to look it up electronically? What about the fingerprint reading?

I for one would be glad to know if any other Johnny foreigners have tried to do this (and how comfortable are those red jump suits?).

[BackPacker]

What I understand is that the ESTA program is essentially aimed at speeding up the VWP processing, but is not a replacement for the VWP.

I might be wrong, but AFAIK here's the procedure.

1. At home, you need to fill in your details in the ESTA system. After a few automated checks, you are granted authorization to *travel to the US*. But this does NOT in any way grant you permission to *enter the US*. You still have to apply for the VWP at the border. (Without authorization to travel to the US, I think there's even a system in place that ensures that you are refused boarding by the airline. Not sure how this works though.)

2. At the border your VWP application is checked as usual, but the immigration officer now has the benefit of having your details electronically on file.

I honestly don't know what sort of checks ESTA does before giving you approval to travel. This might just be a very cursory "were all fields filled in properly" field to a detailed check to see whether your name appears on terrorist watchlist etc.

But in any case, AFAIK, ESTA is NOT independent of the VWP. You have to be admitted under the VWP properly first, before you can fly into the US in a private aircraft.

[dont overfil]

I applied for the ESTA before leaving for the USA as everyone does but was also given the green waver form whilst on the flight to the USA.

This has been the proceedure for the last three trips I have done, The last being April 2011..

The stub of the waver form was stapled to my passport at immigration. At no time on any of my trips have I been asked for the ESTA form. In fact it even says in the instructions there is no need to carry a copy

The authorities then have all your details from the ESTA. Your signature on the waver form and details of your excursion when you log on to and fill in your eAPIS.

Don't fill in another visa waver when you return to the States. I did that once and it caused confusion.

D.O..

[david viewing]

There are definitely no more green waiver forms on BA to PHX at least.

[DLT1939]

The US CBP Guide for Private Flyers states:

"Visa Waiver Program travelers may arrive on a private aircraft if they are being readmitted to the United States, within the original 90 day admission period, after a departure to foreign contiguous country or an adjacent island
of 30 days or less. They will only receive the balance of their original admission period."

[172driver]

I happened to be on the first UA flight into LAX the day the green forms were retired. There was some confusion once at immigration which was resolved by some senior immigration guy arriving cracking a joke or two and announcing to all and sundry 'no, you don't need the form' anymore. Have not seen one in my trips to the US since.

[Contacttower]

My experience too, going to the US in April and July 2011 there were no landing cards given out.