As a 32 year flight attendant in the US, I was amazed yesterday flying as a passenger on the Emirates A380 in Economy Class from London to Dubai. The crew was fantastic, each passenger special request was met with lots of charm and professionalism. Along with the great crew, I was impressed with the great catering, comfort of the aircraft, and amount of supplies that the crew had to work with. My hats off to you all !! :)

So...now you know what's missing back in the good ole USA! :ok:

Try Biz class for the bar or First for the shower!

and all it took was massive subsidy...

...and a walk back to pre-Industrial Revolution times in Labor Rules :rolleyes:

and all it took was massive subsidy...


Care to back that up with actual facts? Let's say in comparison to BA since...hmmm let me think, how about since purchasing Concorde for £1.00 per piece :hmm:

Wow I sure hope that I will be one of the winners for the lucky draw
at KL for the grand prize for a flight to DUB from KUL.
Its so huge isnt it?
How I wish that Emirates will give special rates to ATCO's.:ok:

Jetlagged Purser - as a matter of interest, would not you and your crew have handled customer requests in the same way?

haughtney1, not sure what you´d consider facts, but the respected Canadian journalist David Akin (http://www.torontosun.com/author/david-akin) airs both points of view on his blog here (http://blogs.canoe.ca/davidakin/?s=Emirates).
It is by any means an interesting read.

Since nobody here has brought up BA, nor does anybody appear to work for BA, I can´t see what relevance your Concorde remark has?

Jetlagged Purser, LOVE your username! :D
Good to read that you enjoyed your trip; a smooth operation is a thing of beauty from a pax point of view.
At the same time, with everything I have read about the working conditions and the type of management our colleagues at that airline are subject to, as an FA I find it hard to rejoice about very much going on there.

Judd, with the greatest of respect, I'm not sure that you could find an impartial view from a political hack based in Ottawa, particularly given the prickly nature of the present relationship between the UAE and Ottawa.

But back to the questions of a subsidy...Wikipedia defines it as (yes I know Wikipedia...but it's a comprehensive definition)

A subsidy (also known as a Render) is an assistance paid to a business or economic sector. Most subsidies are made by the government to producers or distributed as subventions in an industry to prevent the decline of that industry (e.g., as a result of continuous unprofitable operations) or an increase in the prices of its products or simply to encourage it to hire more labor (as in the case of a wage subsidy). Examples are subsidies to encourage the sale of exports; subsidies on some foods to keep down the cost of living, especially in urban areas; and subsidies to encourage the expansion of farm production and achieve self-reliance in food production.
[1]
Subsidies can be regarded as a form of protectionism or trade barrier by making domestic goods and services artificially competitive against imports. Subsidies may distort markets, and can impose large economic costs.
[2] Financial assistance in the form of a subsidy may come from one's government, but the term subsidy may also refer to assistance granted by others, such as individuals or non-governmental institutions

Based on those terms, one could hardly argue that EK receives ANY form of subsidy, moreover, the terminology and ideological framework of such an environment is based around the premise of....wait for it....protectionism.
Now if you can sell that one to me about EK and it's operations in Dubai, then I'm all ears.
Similar arguments have been levelled previously i.e. They don't pay for fuel, they get handling for free etc etc etc. But the fact is none of that has any basis in reality.
The reality is that EK operate in a regulatory environment that is aviation friendly, compare that to how long T5 took at LHR..or the shenanigans over the 3rd non-runway.
There is very little if any corporation tax to pay in the UAE, and yet EK paid 35% of its profits to the government (tell me how a subsidised airline would manage that?)
Many commentators have made the argument that due to EK being based in a favourable regulatory environment, it effectively receives an indirect subsidy which again is demonstrably misleading....ANYONE can operate into and out of UAE as it operates and open skies policy, hardly a subsidised business environment.
I'd love to go far more into the detail of why Tightslot's comment was both wrong and ignorant of many facts....but alas I think it would be lost in the background noise.

Well, avoiding the detail :O

As a general rule, I don't approve of subsidy of any kind - ever - of anything. Government money consistently distorts markets and props up the otherwise unsupportable. That includes BA. However that's by-the-by.

Your view is contentious in that there are many that disagree (avoiding the detail) as there are many that agree. Neither side has a monopoly of truth. I suspect that as always, the truth lies somewhere in between: Neither as much nor as little as is claimed by the partisans.

The ME may enjoy an aviation friendly environment, and the rest of the world may not. The rest of the world has unionised workforces and all the complications of hiring mature, thinking humans with sophisticated expectations and behavioural patterns that make life complicated for both airline managements and sometimes customers. That's because they are an integral part of the societies that they operate within. The rules and regs, airport and transport infrastructure and social practises are the result of long and hard-earned experience and money.

From a customer perspective, the success of the ME airlines is simply the market demonstrating its' power: They offer a good product at a competitive price and that is impossible to argue against. However, customers need to be aware of the effect of their decisions. The global dominance of the big 3 comes at a price: Freedom is not Free. If we choose to outsource our airlines to a society that criminalises homosexuality, promotes slave labour, restricts Trade Union membership and promotes Nepotism and Graft then that is our choice - just as it is their choice to create a society of their own model. Their airlines are putting ours out of business: That's the market at work, but lets at least be fully aware of what it is that we are buying.

I am a cabin crew for EK (and, what a surprise - also a mature, thinking human with sophisticated expectations and behavioural patterns). For me it is nothing but nice to hear a compliment from a customer, even more so from an industry- experienced person (you understand like no other what it is like to do our job). A simple thank you for taking your time to write this down! :D

.... customers need to be aware of the effect of their decisions. The global dominance of the big 3 comes at a price: Freedom is not Free. If we choose to outsource our airlines to a society that criminalises homosexuality, promotes slave labour, restricts Trade Union membership and promotes Nepotism and Graft then that is our choice

Precisely why I decided a few years ago not to fly Emirates again, nor to set foot in Dubai because of the double standards and hyypocrisy of the regime, despite having flown the airline previously and found it an excellent experience thanks to the quality of the on board service.

Of ALL the airlines I fly with, KLM/ AF/ Emirates and BA normally, EK have by FAR the best crews, in my humble opinion. When they are goo, they are excellent, normally DXB- Far East but when thy are not, they can be mediocre at best (invariably DXB to and from the UK).

I am MORE than happy to tell them so whem they have done well, and let EK know who their stars are.

Compared to the "Blue Meanies" on KLM, the distinctly dissinterested AF crews, and those of BA, "the Worlds surliest airline" as we used to call it, EK are streets ahead.

Ooops, better shut up now, flying BA on Friday !

Would echo Tezzers comments, always found EK crews to be very professonal in their dealings with clients. They have a largly new fleet and fly from where I want to, and the change in DXB has yet to cause me any issues. Hope all goes well tonight having said, that as I am outbound with them !.

However Tightslot has a valued point about the UAE in that the rules there are not like those applied in the West (I have worked there in the past and still do on ocasions so have first hand experiance of this). But you should bare in mind that until recently if you were born in Western Europe , North America, Australasia, Japan you were born with a relative silver spoon in the mouth. The rest of the world has not been fortunate enough to have stable political and economic growth and the social and legal concepts that have come with this. This is changing as other areas take up the Western capatalist free market way of business but they have yet to graft on the social and legal issues which go along with this, as this takes time (look at UK during industrial revolution). Until these occur you will always have the issues raised re wages,labour relations,law of contract etc as currently they do not look at the world in the same way as those who have grown up in western stile democracy, and you have to remember this when dealing with them or trying to understand their view of the world. I should say that this is not just a UAE issue and I find it in most emerging markets in which I travel and work. I am sure it will change in these areas but it will take time.

I fly for a Hong Kong Carrier but any chance I get to fly EK in First or Business I take. I've even chosen paying for EK over our own company Business Class that costs me almost nothing.

EK have a great product.

I think there is a lot of sour grapes whenever Emirates are discussed.
Of course there are good, bad and plain disinterested cabin crew with any airline, but by far the EK crew stand out for their friendly, courteous service. If they have such bad T&Cs and are badly treated, they sure know how to hide it.

I had the pleasure of flying EK when it was brand new - 1988 or so. They had only 1 or 2 leased A300s.

My impression of the CC was disbelief. The only mental model I could conjur was a EK VP must have ridden a bunch of the better carriers, noted the best FA's on each leg, and offered them jobs on the spot. Not a slacker nor a loser in the lot.

Haven't had the good fortune to fly EK recently, but they're obviously maintaining a high standard. :)

Tight slot
I totally agree with your point about subsidies distorting markets and propping up lame ducks.

However you stated that Emirates gets massive subsidies.
There is absolutely no evidence for this. In fact, EK management go out of their way at every opportunity to state the opposite. A quick search for news stories will reveal this.
EY and QR are a different case. They are much more cagey on the subject. The CEO of QR has pretty much admitted to subsidies, justified by the historic subsidies given to Western Airlines.
I suggest you do a little more research before making bold claims.

Considering they have a very wide variety of nationalities (recent flight had 21 spoken languages; many from the West; their heavily attended "job fairs"; the number of applicants far exceeding the openings; and the consistently high level of service leads me to believe they offer a competitive and rewarding workplace and opportunities. Is Dubai, and by extension EK, like the "West"? Of course not. Neither is China or India or about 75% of the globe.

The Aussie EK F/A I spoke with thought I was a fair deal, especially given the tax environment in Oz. As did several others that work in the flight ops office.

GF

EK have too many A380s for this flyer. I risk being in a bird that is, as of 2012, still largely untested.

Sure they have a bunch of 777s but the real problem is that they are not a member of any alliance. Why is that?

They obviously want independence. This undoubtedly ha many benefits.

But I feel better knowing that airlines I fly are members of a group that have audits and labor standards like those available to workers in the early 20th Century. There are some parts of the world (I am not necessarily talking about UAE or only about UAE) I would not want surgery done, would not want to try my luck in their court system, nor would I wish to be flown by a pilot based there. And if you have a problem with any of these things, and need redress trying your luck in their court system would be a less than familiar experience. Even in Europe it's not that great. Sure, they dress like we do in the English speaking world, but they don't think like we do - I am talking about countries like France. So whether you are battling a doctor, an airline, baggage, a dentist or anyone else who has done you wrong, you may end up getting nowhere with your "ideals" about "rights".

I appreciate that there are a lot of good foreign pilots and ground crew there at EK and that everyone is well intentioned, but I do wonder what opportunity they get to stand up to their employer in the interests of their (and pax) safety.

I think that AA will regret the day they bought into the Airbus philosophy because Joe Public has the Google and Joe Public has an internet connection and is starting to see and read about QF72 and AF447 and all of the other hijinks. Despite EK's best intentions, and there is no doubt they are good, any airline that proudly boasts about a largely untested piece of tech (ie not yet in operation for more than x1000 cycles) that is responsible for carrying hundreds of pax is probably jumping the gun.

The arguments put forward by Juud and Tightslot in response to the OP are completely disingenuous.

What does the debate about whether or not Emirates receives government subsidies have to do with the customer service offered onboard, which is what jetlaggedpurser was talking about?

I work in the aviation industry, but when I travel as a passenger, I couldn't care less what the airline internal politics are. What I care about, considering I've decided to hand my hard-earned money over to an airline, is a decent and satisfactory service.

I don't travel for work, so in that context I have done a significant amount of flying in the last 12 months, with at least 16 long haul flights, 2 ultra-long haul flights and a handful of short haul flights.

And I can quite honestly say that far and away the best cabin crew and the best service has been on Emirates. No question. Beyond a shadow of a doubt etc etc.

In terms of cabin crew in the last year, I've had good flights as well with Turkish, flyDubai and SAS.

But by far the worst flights with the worst service and least welcoming cabin crew were with BA and Qantas. There's no excuse for unsmiling, unwelcoming and generally cold cabin crew. Whatever happened to professionalism? If people are unhappy in a job, they should get a different job, surely?

The contrast, however, with the generally smiling, friendly, courteous and efficient Emirates cabin crew is marked.

What does the debate about whether or not Emirates receives government subsidies have to do with the customer service offered onboard, which is what jetlaggedpurser was talking about?

It has a lot to do with it. There is a cost associated to offering better customer service and the airline that receives a subsidy is accordingly better placed to procure a higher standard of cabin crew at higher salaries who are less likely to go on strike or be sullen and surly, and to spend more on passenger comfort amenities, and so on. They can also roster the CC more favourably, which costs money, accomodate them in better hotels, and so it goes on.

I'm not saying EK does receive a subsidy, along with most of us, I don't know, but there does seem to be a groundswell of opinion implying that in some way, they do.

It has a lot to do with it. There is a cost associated to offering better customer service and the airline that receives a subsidy is accordingly better placed to procure a higher standard of cabin crew at higher salaries who are less likely to go on strike or be sullen and surly

I'm sorry Capetonian but I can't agree with that.

I agree that simple logic should dictate that more money=happy worker. But if that were the case, surely BA for example, who are known to have some of the most favourable terms & conditions for their cabin crew when compared to other airlines, should be the happiest, cheeriest most caring bunch in the skies. I can only speak from personal experience, but that is definately not the attitude I have picked up from BA cabin crew in general.

Not only that, Emirates operate in a part of the world where Trade Unions are illegal, so no collective bargaining for improved Ts & Cs meaning the employees are at the mercy of their employer and yet despite this, as someone else has mentioned in this thread, they are heavily over-subscribed at recruitment fairs.

I personally know a few Emirates cabin crew, and they work phenomenally hard, on horrendous working hours for a pretty average salary taking home between £1,200-£1,600 a month give or take.

Yet they keep on smiling and are polite to their passengers.............

Again I say that if anyone is that unhappy with the Ts & Cs on offer with their company that it affects they way they do their job, then they should get a different job...............

Flytiger...I like your logic.
Just look for a Boeing and all will be fine. And they'll probably serve Freedom Fries on board, too.:mad:

Flytiger,

I work for Emirates as a captain and examiner on the Airbus fleet. I believe I can set your fears at ease when it comes to the standard of "pilots based there" as you call it. At Emirates we have the highest standards, as evidenced by external audits done by IOSA and other independent entities, and from what I see as an examiner in the simulator and on the airplane. I would be a lot more concerned to fly with the so called Legacy Carriers where redundancies and furloughs lead to lack of motivation and deteriorating standards in their crew.

Emirates hired about 500 highly qualified and trained First Officers last year, many of these from these same Legacy Carriers. We have a rigorous training program and offer one of the fastest career paths in the industry for those that qualify. One of the problems at the Legacy Carriers is the lack of recruitment and training due to the problems in the industry the last decade. This leads to stagnation in the training departments as little or no new joiner and upgrade training is required, thereby lowering the standard of the Flight Ops departments as a consequence.

When I discuss this with my former colleagues at my previous airline (one of the large Legacy Carriers in Europe) they ecco my sentiments. Standards have dropped and motivation is at an all time low. At Emirates we have the opposite problem - training is at an all time high. We are flat out, but I am proud to say that we don't compromise on our very high standards. Our newly hired First Officers and newly promoted Captains have my utmost confidence. I should know, I am one of the gatekeepers of that high standard.

So Sir, next time you fly Emirates rest assured you are in the most capable hands in the industry!

:ok:Tajfaa

Hmmm, what to say about the statement re not wanting to fly EK because of their crews? Firstly, I do not fly for Emirates, but have a good handful of former colleagues and friends who do, and as a measure of my respect for the work they do, I will say to you that I would put my family and my old self on an EK flight anyday. They work harder than most but the standard they keep is world class. In most cases I would deem it better than in most of the Legacy carriers as stated by the TRI who posted above. (Granted, he'd better say how good it is!) I make no comment on any of the other claims about subsidies or level playing fields etc, that's another thread as far as I'm concerned.

I first flew EK to Melbourne from LHR back in 1999. The standard of service the crews provided then was of the highest standard. Today in my view it still is. The only thing that has changed is the product they provide. The meals seem to have got smaller since then. That is not the fault of the crew. They are told what to serve and probably how to serve it. EK provide crews from all over the world and generally they mix very well with each other considering the different cultures.

Politics and religion however are something completely different and shouldn't be brought into the cabin.

Going back to posts 23 and 24, mhk77, I also find it hard to understand why, if working conditions in EK are so bad, the crews are, as you say, so much more service orientated than BA (QF I don't find too bad).

I know a couple of EK CC as family friends, but haven't really discussed this with them. They like living in DXB and are both married to men who have high earning jobs, and they live in 'luxury' and have high disposable incomes. It would be my idea of hell but perhaps what makes them happy is that they live in this artifical world and can spend their entire income on designer clothes and expensive rounds of Chardonnay and Veuve Cliquot with the girlies at fancy bars.

I also wonder if unions are a bad thing. The rabble rousers who run them, and who profit from the members, stir up discontent and are constantly telling members how badly they are treated - when they're not. Whereas EK staff have no unions, so they get on with the job and know that if they don't do it properly, they're out, as they have no protection.

I am, obviously, totally opposed to Unions because of the trouble they cause. They may at one time have had a legitimate purpose in employee protection but I think now they have just become a weapon used in the wrong way and like many weapons, serve only to inflame situations.

I have to correct few things... Especially the rumours that we work like slaves... As mentioned before, I am a cabin crew for EK. I am swiss and therefore one of those that grew up with a so called golden spoon in my mouth. Why am I here? Emirates provides an incredible package which is not able to compete with let's say Swiss. We do work hard, yes! But is that a bad thing? We get paid well for it, with money and benefits (accomodation provided, many discounts etc). There was a short time when we worked crazy hours because there were almost more aircrafts than crew, but this was only temporary. Concerning Capetonians post: I also am single and the money we earn is enough to lead a fancy life (without a filthy rich husband) and put a bit aside for later! The only thing which is bad is the currency exchange rate, whatever amount I put to my savings each month, if I exchange it to swiss franc it's literaly nothing. But I knew this before I made the choice to come to Dubai and give it a go with Emirates. I know many people, many of them CC and flight deck crew talk badly about EK, but I for myself never had a reason to complain. I've always been treated fair and been looked after well. And I have one of the best work environment countries to compare with.

Coming back to the origin of this thread, for me its without question that there is a big difference in service level from the European Legacy carriers but above all the average USA carriers. The problem here is that the general public, in particular in the US, has accepted the lower level of service and therefore there is no need to improve. In the USA there is no reference towards companies like EK.
Together with Singapore Airlines, EK is in my expirience the best!:D

Hi Capetonian,

I agree with you that if a Trade Union becomes too strong then in the long run, the only person who pays for it is the customer. IMHO, that is part of the problem with the American airlines (generally) and why they have such a poor customer service.

Before I moved to Dubai, I was a Trade Union rep. In my naivety, I thought I would be able to make the working environment for me and my colleagues better, and help colleagues when in trouble. However, not long after I started as rep I went to my first annual conference. I was genuinely gutted by what I experienced. The tone was started by our TU leader who referred to us all as 'comrades' as if we were all workers in a Soviet gulag........I very quickly realised that although TUs can be very useful, they're also very much a vehicle for others to feather their nests or for people to be argumentative and troublesome for the sheer bloody-mindedness of it.

For example, look at the dispute between the BA management and their staff through the TUs a couple of years ago. There was only one winner there and it wasn't the TUs. Any reasonable and sensible person could see that BA management were being pretty fair, yet the TUs were just spoiling for a fight.


Regarding Emirates and their staff, although I would say that the vast majority of their cabin crew are very polite and appear genuinely happy, there are always exceptions. Sadly for me as a Brit, the nationalities of the cabin crew who do let down their colleagues USUALLY (though not always) are British cabin crew......make of that what you will but that could open a whole new debate about socio-economics in the home countries of the cabin crew and the way that affects their attitude..........

I am a passionate supporter of 'my airline' British Airways and think that, on a good day, it is the finest of all.

However I recognise that there are many other fine airlines offering what the customer wants, and Emirates is definitely one of them.


This thread has drifted a lot around terms & conditions which, maybe, is valid however what the first post said about having a really great experience on EK should be reason for celebration for all of us in these times of anti-air travel.

Capetonian,
Except during a period of military service, I was member of several unions from 1957 until last year and I believe that there is some truth in what you say. Nevertheless, used properly, union membership is in the interest of those who do not negotiate their own contracts and I am glad to have been a member; admittedly of some more than others. I certainly didn't pay the political levy and :mad: what the shop steward thought.


I see you've fallen foul somewhere. We should have a court area so that those who missed the fireworks can read a résumé of the charge ;)

I see you've fallen foul somewhere. We should have a court area so that those who missed the fireworks can read a résumé of the charge

" 'E's not a Capetonian! 'E's a very naughty boy!"

I last flew EK in 2004 and am still waiting for a refund as a result of a "downgrade" from Business to economy due to an overbooked aircraft. We were lucky as a crew to be seated in an exit row so leg room wasn't a problem, but we refused to move once seated as the CC wanted to put a family with tiny kids in those seats before departure (a class one emergency exit, with all that implies) for the rest of the flight the CC ignored us totally to the extent that we couldn't even get a glass of water on a Dubai-Gatwick flight. I've never flown EK since and we won't use them to position crews either.

Flew Oman Air last year and they were magnificent, no doubt there is some form of tie up between the two, but Oman Air now get a lot of business from us.

Thank you for the re assurances. I am sure you have wonderful training and ethos at EK, and I believe that the prince has only the best intention for EK and his state, and everyone who lives and travels there.

The fears I were largely referring to arise from little safety valves that are present in almost all Western countries, and which to my shame I must admit I do not even know whether they are present in that part of the world. These safety valves, and the way people live with them are the only thing that make the US different from China and other countries and include: 1. A healthy common law legal system, with judges independent of the state and an independent bar, leading to a fair and balanced system of tort and contract law and redress for the citizen or guest vs company and vs the state 2. 20th Century rights of workers being at least allowed to engage in meetings, collective bargaining, organization free of supervision, striking (with notice, and if talks break down), and other ordinary rights available since the early 20th Century. 3. a society where everyone is valued as an individual and has rights of assembly, free speech, and other ordinarily available rights (see especially 1 and also 2).

If they don't exist in Country X, I won't be flying with my kids (or having surgery done) there. Sorry, that's just how I roll.

Flytiger,

I don't question your rights to choose but a supplementary query.

Do you single out aviation only or does your stance cover all aspects of personal 'trade'?

Speaking as a fare-paying passenger on long haul, I was impressed with the whole package from Emirates.

As pax, it can get very tiresome if you have to put up with grumpy and unco-operative CAs to the extent that one promises to oneself that you ain't going to fly with that mob again unless you can't help it. And, at the end of the day it's fare paying passenger bums on seats that pay the wages.

Save the angst for the pax that really deserve it and don't take it out on the rest of us. After all, you chose the job!

So, next long haul it will be Emirates again.

Oh good! - It's the "I pay your wages you know" thing - again

I know this is prolonging the thread creep but I always laugh when I see the words 'subsidy' and 'Emirates' in the same sentence. I don't know if there is any truth to the rumour but surely the whole objective of running an airline (or indeed any company) is to generate profit. If I was at the helm and someone wanted to help boost my balance sheet, then I would be most grateful for their assistance - period!

Back to the topic at hand ....

I fly a lot, way too much for my own liking, as a passenger. Always out of Europe, heading either North, South, East and West. I therefore get to sample both European, North American and Asia legacy carriers, as well as the "new" entrants on the world stage.

If my travel takes me to the ME, I'll always choose Emirates over any European legacy carrier; the hard product, the service and the price is quite simply superior. If I'm going across the pond I'll never, ever, fly on a US carrier. Air Canada is ok, sometimes actually quite good, from a service point of view - but the hard product leaves a bit to be desired (the dreaded herringbone configuration). When going to Asia the choices are so vast it takes a lot of careful consideration. Again, I'll avoid European legacy carriers in favour of either an Asian legacy or ME operator, with a preference for the ME operator. Not because the hard product on the ME carriers is better, or they offer superior service; it's damn near impossible to beat ANA and SQ when it comes to service. But I'm a smoker, and stopping halfway to top up the nicotine level is something I value quite highly. Usually the ME operator will also have the cheaper offer, making my boss happier.

In my experience Asian and ME airlines consistently offer the superior product, the best service and, as good as always, the loweest price.

I do not trouble myself with "labour relations" when it comes to cabin crew and pilots, regardless of where in the world they work. Nobody forced them to sign a contract, and if they think the airline or industry doesn't suit them, there's nothing stopping them from saying adios and finding something better to do. Bonded, you say? Again, you signed the dotted line - either learn to live with the choices you've made, or just do a runner.

There is only one area where ME operators in general, and EK in particular, suck - and that's customer service when something's gone wrong. One is perpetually sent around in circles by employees who have neither the inclination nor, does it seem, the powers to do anything about complaints raised. One is left to wonder if all they've been trained to do is delay, delay, delay until the customer eventually gives up. But as always there's a solution to that as well: Registered mail attn. Mr. Tim Clark. Though I seriously doubt he will read the letter himself, it works every time - or at least the 2 times I've had something to complain about (1 x lost luggage and 1 x missed connection due to EK's consistent inability to depart on time). In both cases all my expenses were refunded (around 100 Euro's worth of shirt, underwear and socks in one case and 150 Euro for a car hire in the second) via a cheque + 50.000 miles in each case.

I see that EASA has just ordered Airbus to check the wing cracks on ALL the 380s. The cabin crew maybe the world's best & according to Tajfaa the pilots walk on water :E, however, I think that I'll avoid them for the time being.

I must admit to being slightly biased as I did spend a year of my young life operating out of Sharjah. (For those geographically illiterate among you, Sharjah is the adjacent sand pit to Dubai.)

Capetonian "I know a couple of EK CC as family friends, but haven't really discussed this with them. They like living in DXB and are both married to men who have high earning jobs, and they live in 'luxury' and have high disposable incomes. It would be my idea of hell but perhaps what makes them happy is that they live in this artifical world and can spend their entire income on designer clothes and expensive rounds of Chardonnay and Veuve Cliquot with the girlies at fancy bars."

Nobody who is married to TRULY "HIGH INCOME" men will deign to do a job as a low-class server.

Perhaps your definition of what's high income is simply just way below the common benchmarks worldwide.

Somebody has testified these low-class servers make £1,200-£1,600 a month. That's disgraceful salary for any age, and are practically third world standards. If you say they can make such pittance and yet live in 'luxury' and have high disposable income, well, it's not because the salary itself is high, but because DBX is a developing cheap place. :yuk: Is it? Its easy to live like a king in a cheap place, anyone who's ever had a hardship tour in a third world city like Jakarta or Mexico City knows that. With the sad salary that these supposed adults draw, I wonder how many buckets of tears they will be crying when they leave their low-class servitude and DBX one day, to find the checking accounts looking sadder than a teenager's. :D

The service of EK is good not because the staff are paid handsomely. It's simply because they have no labor unions. Either cower and grovel, or out. ;)

Have just returned from a long trip out East flying mostly with EK / SQ and as normal found the service from ALL crews to be vey good. Have flown 5 sectors SQ, and 6 EK, no bags lost, no grumpy CC, flights on time and wings still on plane when I left it !. Will I use them again ?, of course I will. Have an odd trip for me in 2 weeks as I have to go to US (not my normal stamping ground since late 1990,s) so will be intrested to see if US carriers are as bad as everyone on here says they are now. Using LH for the crossing however,:ok: as already told by colleague that AA Man - US not good even in Business despite TV adverts.

I have flown lots with EK on ID tickets and have to say the service onboard has always been top notch. Having worked for a US carier for a while and knowing what their service is like I love EK service on board. The crew are always friendly and go out of their way to accomodate you onboard the aircraft and mostly they always say good morning when you open the door in the morning to them, not like some airlines I could mention!!!

haha great comments , just finished up workign with emirates airline as cabin crew, if ya got any questions fire away! ,,, back in oz now cant find work so gonna get job with virgin australia

Why did you leave Emirates, and how long did you work for them? Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

First of all - we're not 'low class servers' just who do you think you are establishing your own class system that way?
£1200-£1600 a month TAX FREE with no accommodation, bills or transport to pay for and sizeable discounts all over the city is suddenly worth a lot more when you stop thinking in UK terms.
Even by UK standards, to come out with that amount after tax is pretty good. When I left uni, I couldn't get a job that paid more than £1200 a month, and that was at the age of 22. I know plenty of people who can't even get a job full stop. Doing this job, I can afford to save at least £1000 a month. Tell me you can do that at the age of 22 in the UK living away from home?
Have you even been to Dubai (airport code is DXB by the way, not DBX)? I'm pretty sure it's not a cheap place to live.
People like you should think before you open your mouth. Go back to your ******* mansion in the country and spend some more of Daddy's money you idiot.

any airline that proudly boasts about a largely untested piece of tech (ie not yet in operation for more than x1000 cycles) that is responsible for carrying hundreds of pax is probably jumping the gun.

Errr... and what would you call the heavy promotion of the 747 that was going on in the late 60's by those launch airlines like Pan Am? Suppose it's different because it's a Boeing??

I'm a great fan of EK, and the CC are almost always top notch, with a few real stars out there. Sure, there are occaisions when the service is not up to scratch for some reason, but hey, what part of life doesn't have it's dissapointments ?

I always try to treat the CC as I myself would wish to be treated, they are not servants, they are part of a professional team, there to keep me safe, and make my journey as comfortable as possible. Yes, I alawyas go in the comfy seats, and more often than not the VERY comfy seats, and as a regular traveller, am actually made to feel valued and welcome.

See you tomorrow night EK, manila to Manchester, via DXB.

TightSlot

Interesting comment you made on page 1 expressing concern that airlines such as Emirates could put your airline, and others, out of business. I think you should look at the damage your union did several years back which almost cost you and another 45,000 employees their jobs. The same union that's now pushing bus drivers to strike for an extra 500 quid simply because they'll be working harder during the olympics! Unite? What an oxymoron that is. Divide more like! If that's their mentality, Gulf carriers are better off without them. As for your subsidy statement, you're so far wide of the mark it's not funny. A disappointing comment, especially so coming from a moderator!

To take home 1600 pound sterling per month, you'd need to earn 25,000 per annum before tax. Whilst not a huge amount, for a single 23 yr old with accommodation provided, all bills paid, uniform provided and transport to and from work, that's a pretty good starting salary. Not bad for a non unionised workforce.

Perhaps those concerned with the plight of our abused slaves could enlighten us as to the starting salary of BA cabin crew?

The union that you refer to did no damage to 45,000 employees Of my airline because it does not represent them. It does represent the UK based employees (circa 400). The airline that I work for doesn't have 45,000 employees, or even half that figure. I'm sure that there is a valid point somewhere in your statement, but as it stands, it is factually inaccurate: Possibly your assumption about my employer is incorrect? The moral of the story would seem to be not to base personal attacks on mods on assumption?

... a society that criminalises homosexuality, promotes slave labour, restricts Trade Union membership and promotes Nepotism and Graft

The slave labour referred to in my previous post does not refer to FA's but to the many tens of thousands of other residents of Gulf States for whom the statement is correct: I stand by each of the statements made above, but would be interested to hear any evidence that you may have to the contrary. I have no issue with your rebuttal, beyond the fact that it fails to answer the actual position and statements made. Try again, maybe?

Firstly, let's clarify one very important point here. Nobody is forced to work in the UAE. The 'slaves' that you refer to are mainly unskilled labourers, mostly from rural India, Bangladesh and Nepal. They come out of desperation to earn a wage to provide food for families back home. Most earn no more than 150 pounds a month. They accept this because employment opportunities back home are non existent. What jobs are available to them are paid at around $2 per day. Maybe some feel that Arabs exploit that fact. Unfortunately, some do. What is sad, however, is that Countries like India, a nuclear state with one of the highest number of millionaires in the World and Bangladesh, the most corrupt Country in the World, care less of their own people than the Middle East.

We can't change the mechanics of poverty and whilst we may find it unpalatable at times, the fact is that there will always be those that have and those that don't. Having lived here for 10 years, I find it easier to accept than when I first arrived. It doesn't make it right, but that's just the way it is. As a seasoned crew member, surely you must appreciate that too as you travel the Continents? Because you aren't confronted with it everyday, maybe that makes it harder to accept. Ever been to Calcutta, Dhaka or Lagos? Remember how you felt the first time you left the airport. Live with that for 30 years and you come to accept it. It does not, however, ever justify treating them or anyone else differently. I treat everyone the way I'd like to be treated and I instil that philosophy in my children too. Unfortunately, that's not common amongst everyone here.

So, whilst we could debate the ethics of poverty to the point of thread drift, I too stand by my comment regarding subsidy. You have no firm evidence to substantiate that accusation other than crew room chat and tabloid sensationalism. The only money EK received form the Dubai Government was $20 million back in 1985 when it was formed. It's been totally self sufficient since then. Fact.

I'd also like to know what the starting salary is of your airlines most junior crew. As you correctly pointed out, try again, maybe?

I flew Emirates a couple of weeks ago and the airport is a disaster. Stairs not ready at the aircraft, which are parked in the arse end of nowhere, insufficient security checks open on arrival at the terminal, gates miles apart, etc.

Perhaps if they hadn't designed it as a massive duty free shop it might function a little better.

Cabin crew and in-flight top notch though.

Just wait till the intergalactic space port, down road opens then you will really be at the far end......of no where.....

All airports are glorified shopping malls, as the rents and commissions from these are much higher than the aircraft related fees.


I live in DXB, and prefer to use Qatar rather then Emirates, but only because I think they have even better cabin service then EK.

DXB airport will only get bigger and busier, as DXW (space port) will be some time yet.....

Agree re CC, they are all ace......

Glf

hey i work for ek as a crew member, am happy to hear all the positive comments about the service standards, can't say much coz i have not had a chance to fly with many other airlines to compare especially the european, hopefully i will soon. thanks i alot

Glf, I have flown with QR and EK. Having spoken to crew from both, what I believe they have in common is a tyrannical work environment with a fear of retribution for any transgression made worse by an entrenched reporting culture.

In QR, the ramifications of any "crime" are even worse than at EK and the crew perform to a higher standard as a result. To be able to work your staff in this manner is a western airline CEO's wet dream.

The relatively high service standard you enjoy is not brought about by the economic subsidy environment in which they operate but by employing young, malleable crew with no industrial protection and exposing any miscreants to threats (and deeds). In a word: Fear.

It is endemic in the area.

There are other threads discussing the same problem, specifically junior CC reporting senior CC for permitting longer rest breaks on ULH.

GlF

I had to ring the Emirates recently. No e.mail to confirm my booking. Nice chap answered quickly,took my Skywards number and confirmed my booking was OK. He then sent me an E.mail to confirm everything. According to my phone the whole call was only 52 seconds long! Definately great service.:ok:

Found later the G.mail had put the original message in spam???