Training for airline job in Asia

[Tesl]

Hello everyone,

(First an apology, this post got much longer than I expected. Feel free to skip to the TLDR at the bottom of this post!)

I've been reading through posts on these forums almost solidly for a week or two now, in the end I ended up making this post much earlier than expected.

A little background, I've been working in Tokyo (and some time in HK) for the last 4-5 years in one of the major Investment Banks. I'm 26, and a UK citizen. I speak only English and conversational Japanese.

I've been finding a regular desk job somewhat soul destroying, especially when working for an industry doing a job I find hard to justify (in the sense that it offers so little value to the rest of society). The salary has always been good, and this is often what keeps people there for a lifetime.

So recently I was doing a lot of soul searching and trying to decide what it really is I want to do with my life, and what I could do that I'd enjoy and want to do everyday. Even if that requires a sizeable drop in salary. One of the things that I had thought about quite a lot was flying and aviation, it had always been one of those jobs I'd describe as "a dream", although perhaps never considered realistic and it wasn't something I've researched much before.

As of time of writing, I do not have any flight experience. Obviously before undertaking any sort of serious/committed pilot training this is something I'm going to have to try to experience and see how much I enjoy it. As someone who loves driving / biking / any form of racing etc, it seems it *should* be something I'd enjoy. But obviously, any other issues I'm raising in this thread would be contingent on me actually enjoying it. There is more research I still need to be doing in just making sure the day to day life of a pilot is something that would suit me too, so all this will come first before I give anyone any money for anything :)

So I wasn't planning on making this thread until I'd saved a bit more and had spent more time actually flying. Although to what was a massive suprise, yesterday morning my position disappeared in a round of downsizing. I wasn't expecting to lose my job at all, but although my severance is still being negotiated it looks like its going to be decent.

Combining the severance offer I've already made, plus the cash I had already saved working, I should have banked around £120,000. I've no family or other responsibilities, so I could in theory use all of this to cover flight training and anything else before getting a permanent position somewhere.

So that's my situation today, and given the layoff, I'm suddenly feeling under much more pressure to make a decision quickly. If I was to get into another similar job tomorrow as I had before, then its going to be a while before I can consider taking time to learn to fly again. Given how seriously I was beginning to look at flying, it almost feels like a sign that my job disappeared the same time :)

So I can be anywhere in the world, and have £120k to survive. Ultimately if I was to ever pursue airline jobs, I would want them to be Asia based and not the US or Europe. More than anything this is really just my preference as I want to stay in Asia forever. That the industry appears likely to grow a lot over the next 20 years is just good luck!

So what is the best path to achieve this? Given I'm now unemployed, if I was to go ahead with training properly I'm thinking it would make sense to take a more integrated approach. Modular approach is next to impossible if living in Tokyo as far as I can tell, the nearest airbase where I could take lessons is a 3.5 hour commute away. Getting experience / hours / qualifications would take many many years at that rate....

The place that looks the most interesting to me is actually South Africa. As far as I can tell, the license I'd get from a school such as 43 is an ICAO license and would be valid in Asia (though, I must admit, I'm not completely sure). The cost also looks fairly reasonable, the one year 0 -> fAPTL course is around £43,000 according to their brochure. This seems a long way off the prices quoted by schools such as Oxford / CTC?

Would this be my most reasonable plan of action? It doesn't seem so expensive considering its a fully integrated course, and should leave me graduating at 27 with all licenses I'd need to really make a go of this as a career.

Any advice at all on the best value places to train, or any special considerations I might have to make with Asia being my ultimate destination? Are there any reasons to consider a school like Oxford above 43 in SA?

Thanks for your time, any guidance would be appreciated. I'm struggling to find a good way to phrase what I want to say in this thread (which is why I've written far more than necessary). I think what I'm really trying to just say is simply:

TLDR: I'm unemployed, I'm single, I can go anywhere in the world, I have £120,000, I want to eventually fly in Asia. What is the best way to get there?

[SriLankanPilot2]

What do you think about SriLanka. There is new school which is started few years ago. So If you are interest Let me know. I am a student there.

[captain.weird]

@Srilankanpilot, will he have a job guarantee or not?

Tesl, you can look at the Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme, you'll fly for a legacy carrier and will live in HKG.

BUT! If you really want to do some flight experience you can do it by this way, a friend of mine did it and is now flying for Vietnam Airlines.

He got his FAA licences in the USA and went to Africa. Did there some bush flying in a Let410. He didn't get any salary, okay if I have to be true, not more as 300 - 400$. But you have your money so for you it won't be really a problem. But he really enjoyed his time there in Africa. But he wanted to make the 'big step'. He searched for some turbo prop jobs but that was during the mid life economic crisis. He went back to America and got his A320 typerating. Then he got a job with Vietnam Airlines.

If you really want to achieve things, go for it! Follow your heart, but think twice..

[WM2672]

Hi there,
Many airlines in Asia actually prefer their pilots to have trained offshore as training standards and equipment in Philippines, Malaysia, India etc are often below par. One of the most highly regarded and most cost effective places to train is New Zealand - great people, great conditions, great reputation. There are some excellent smaller schools with new equipment, experienced instructors etc (one in Nelson springs to mind -Gold Wings? Golden Wings?) Anyway, for a UK citizen visa is not an issue. Check it out!

[captain.weird]

@WM2672: do you think he will get a job after his training in NZ? What kind of jobs can he do then? Do you think he will have a chance to get hired by, let's say, Hong Kong Airlines or so??

[ZFT]

Many airlines in Asia actually prefer their pilots to have trained offshore as training standards and equipment in Philippines, Malaysia, India etc are often below par. That’s a sweeping statement.

It is the regulators role to ensure that training organisations meet the required standards. If an FTO, TRTO or ATO in EASA speak has been approved by a competent internationally recognised authority (JAA, FAA etc) then it shouldn’t matter where they are located. No international approvals, then you are taking a risk.

I know from personal experience just how complex it is to both achieve and maintain international accreditation whilst operating in a developing country.

(I would suggest however that for basic training, consistent and predictable weather conditions are the real drivers and are what gives Australia and USA the significant advantage).

[OneIn60rule]

Given that you may have 120k saved.

You say the School in Africa is quite affordable. The only problem is that you need to find out how reputable that place is, get feedback from their current and former students. NEVER pay the whole amount up front to anyone!!

There are yet more places that offer such a course for a similar price but again the question is, how good are the aircraft and the teachers?

In my view you should at least get a P.P.L. before making such a large decision. A private licence will set you back 6k depending on where you do it. It can at times be completed in 3 months.
Or at very least do one lesson.

Please bear in mind, doing an integrated course, hoping to finish it in one year is an awful lot of hard work. It's not the flying that will hinder most people, it's doing the required studying after school and then fly when you have any spare time.

Try looking up cadet courses. Cathay pacific for example, seems they do some of their training in Adelaide.

If you choose to do an integrated course you may still require a type rating to get any closer to your target. Such an item will set you back anywhere between 17k upwards but with very little time on type of aircraft.

For now you should embark on a course but make sure you have plenty of savings to accommodate other eventualities. *Company hires you on the basis that you pay them Xxx amount"

Is not uncommon and unless you decide to do so you might end up waiting a bit longer for a job that suits you.


Finally, aviation is a strange business. It's never how good you are but who you know. *Make sure not to burn bridges with people you learn with, they might have a hand in getting you a job in the future"

[redED]

If you want a job at the end and to be based in Asia then as Captain.Weird says Cathay is the one:
Cathay Pacific (http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/careers/student/cadetpilot)

[Luke SkyToddler]

There are very very few airlines in Asia that hire non-experienced expat F/O's. Cathay has a proper cadet scheme which you should obviously have a crack at, and apart from that it's mostly dodgy pay-to-fly outfits in Indonesia.

If I had that kind of coin and was a UK citizen, I'd actually go to the trouble of getting a UK JAR licence and having a crack at Ryanair and Easyjet for the simple reason that they move huge numbers of cadet F/O's through their system. You can save a fair amount of money by doing an ICAO licence in a respectable country (stick to the first world commonwealth ones, Aus / NZ / SA / Canada, their licences are simply higher regarded than third world ones) and then converting to UK JAR.

If that doesn't work out for you then I would guess you'd have to suck it up and go sell your soul to Lion Air for a few hundred hours until you meet the minimums for a proper employer. Be warned though that it is by no means guaranteed that just because you have done a few hundred hours pay-to-fly that you will get a decent job afterwards.

[tarmac12]

Sharp Airlines in Oz have a scheme where you pay 110K Aussie dollars (75K pounds) and you get fATPL, 1250TT and 500 hours FO on a Metro23. You also get paid a proper wage whilst doing your 500 hours FO. Pretty sure you have to be an Aussie citizen though. You could do all the training then get a holiday working visa and come back to Oz and work. Or you could opt not to get paid which really isn't ideal but that might be the only way.

I also believe Susi Air have opened a flying school in indo which has guaranteed progression onto Cessna Caravan then the Avanti. As long as you pass everything of course. All instructors are Aussie and you get trained to Aussie standard.

[captain.weird]

Dear Tarmac,

Do you maybe know how the flight school is called or not?

[planebored]

Instructors are not all Aussie. They have been French and there is an Italian. Yes, a dodgy outfit if there ever was one and you don't get paid on time.

Up to you, Voted Most Arrogant Airline in Indonesia

planebored with susi air