35. Freighter Fleets Rosters: There is no logical justification for rostering freighter-pilots differently to passengers-pilots.

1. Consideration should be given to why freighter pilots are rostered differently to passenger pilots and this anomaly rectified where possible.

2. Consideration should be given to the desirability of freighter-only fleets and this genre ameliorated.

Action: We do not roster our freighter pilots any differently to passenger pilots. We roster all pilots according to the FTLS. No action required.

Really? How many passenger patterns are 12 days long with constant disruption, reams of roster changes, unnecessary EXBs and then have reduced DDOs? :ugh:

Reality distortion. No freakkin idea. Give me some of that, if he believes it's the same.

I guess he only knows what RH tells him, and ignores what others tell him, and rejects what his very own safety review author tells him. :ugh:

it does say write to him if you have any questions!

How many feighter pilots would like to do a MAN-CDG and back (equivalent to HKG-TPE) and then go home ........ to ireland?? Then repeat the next day or day after.

744
Whilst sympathetic to your cause is it reasonable for you to expect CX to take your commute into account when constructing your roster? Have you been to CH and asked for longer compacted rosters because you live where you live? Bottom line is to do what I do and find a cheap local hostel and stay the night.

Firstly, are you are DEFO, or did you jump seniority for the quick command?

Your choice to live in Ireland. Enough said.

Guys .... I was just making a point about the difference between pax and freight rosters. I am not based in MAN, I do not live in Ireland, I have seniority for my position and am quite happy with my roster :ok:

Speedlever:
Firstly, are you are DEFO, or did you jump seniority for the quick command?

And what has that got to do with Freighter rostering? :ugh:

Anybody that thinks freighter rostering is just an issue for a particular category of pilots that you happen to dislike is being foolishly naive. Freighter patterns are a reality for the majority of 744 pilots and will become so for the 777 fleet in the not too distant future. It is time to fight for sensible rostering practices for ALL pilots, however you choose to label them.

744drv has a valid point, commuters have to accept their choice of where they choose to live and adjust their commute accordingly. However, the reality is that CX operates long haul services out of Europe and not short haul which therefore allows pilots to commute relatively easily. Personally I would be more than happy to go home every night having worked a few hours during my body clock day. That would be a blessed relief from the constant circadian disruption, irrational rostering and circumventing inconvenient parts of the FTLs (eg DEL-FRA delayed to depart at 0200 to avoid a third pilot).

Rumour is the company will introduce a policy on commuting. They need to cover their arse if an incident / accident occurs and fatigue is an issue and a commute occurred prior to the event.

So the commute before a duty implies you only used air travel? Some guys are driving automobiles for hours before reporting and after flights; how is this allowed for? I think there is a greater fatigue factor for those drivers than those sleeping in business class.

Freighter roster are subject to continual disruption. That is the real problem! Roster changes are never ending.

Rosters here in Hong Kong are not so great at the moment.

There really isn't a freighter only roster anymore, as a significant amount of 400 freighters are crewed by crew from Hong Kong formally known as passenger pilots.

Not to mention it would seem our friends on the bases are coming into Hong Kong and doing lots of regional giving them 7-10 day long trips. Perhaps not as disrupted but not ideal.

So I am for fighting for more inout on rosters for all !!


FG

Unless it has changed in V2P2 became Part A, the current policy is time based: If you need more than 1.5 hours to get to work, you're supposed to do something to obtain suitable accommodations closer to your base and get proper rest.

As for roster disruptions, REPEAT: They can only disrupt your roster if you answer the phone (if you were silly enough to give them your mobile phone number rather than another phone that is OFF except R days) or if you accept/acknowledge the change online. Print your roster on the 15th and show up for that, and just like magic, your roster won't be disrupted...someone else's will be. (Down route disruptions are another can of worms, but see below for a partial fix.)

A slip of paper under your door at a hotel room (or 10 slips, as per freighter roster changes in ANC) which you may or may not see (since you may or may not be staying/sleeping there) does not count either. If you present yourself at dispatch or the hotel lobby as per your current roster, your duty period has just begun...just let CC know you're on duty and let them sort out what to do with you then. Odds are you will end up with a short "fake" reserve and then the day off (before they have to pay you any meal allowance, see Part A).

and disappear on EXBs !!

FG

Just a word of caution about disappearing from your Hotel/room. I think it's OK to be gone for some reasonable time ie during daylight hours but if your defence for not seeing an envelope under the door is that you weren't there at all you will find you should have furnished CC with alternative contact details.

Freighter pilots are rostered no differently because they are rostered according to the same FTL scheme as everyone else. Another example of Cathay speak and of their reluctance to actually take any action on what they have paid H-C to produce when they don't like his answers. There are many other examples in the document which is worth a read and it makes plenty of good recommendations. The responses are just as telling in their own right.

Not so, Arfur.

If you are off duty, there is no requirement to furnish CC your contact details.


To do so otherwise, would make your time there a reserve.


CX runs a (succesful and profitable) international conglomerate by putting bits of paper under doors?! And you want to read said bits of paper?! Oh come on...

Only two people can screw with your roster......you and crew control.

CC with post flight changes, R day calls etc. Yourself by answering the phone on G days, clicking on the "outstanding roster change" button.

You can do a lot to reduce your own roster disruption.

Hi Jed
I agree absolutely with your remarks about time off and also with Sir Lowe's points. I am pretty certain that, if you decide not to stay in the Company-provided Hotel in your time off, you need to tell them. It's in Part A.

Crew Contacts – Outports

• Crew on Reserve duties away from Home Base are to remain on call in the crew hotel unless specific instructions to the contrary have been issued by the Company.
• Crew not staying in Company provided accommodation shall leave a contact address and telephone number with the Company designated representative, as detailed in the crew briefing sheet, and the flight’s Commander/PIC. Crew are to take a responsible attitude towards their availability so that contact can be made within a reasonable time.

So as long as you are "staying" in the hotel, no problem. Check in, "stay" there, and show up on time, well rested, for your next duty. What you do for leisure inside or outside your hotel room is up to you. As for the last bit about being contactable, it's meaningless, since your rest period is time "free from duty" and you could be sleeping or skiing or drinking or boinking, you are not on reserve, and you do not have a free global roaming mobile phone provided by the company. I think a "reasonable time" to be contacted is when you are back in your room (if you wish) or when you are back on duty.

If they want you on duty by keeping you on reserve, then they should have to credit you for it. Why don't they credit you? Simple: People answer the phone and acknowledge crew direct for free.

Exactly! Thanks for that.:ok:

So as long as you are "staying" in the hotel, no problem. Check in, "stay" there, and show up on time, well rested, for your next duty. What you do for leisure inside or outside your hotel room is up to you. As for the last bit about being contactable, it's meaningless, since your rest period is time "free from duty" and you could be sleeping or skiing or drinking or boinking, you are not on reserve, and you do not have a free global roaming mobile phone provided by the company. I think a "reasonable time" to be contacted is when you are back in your room (if you wish) or when you are back on duty.

While I agree with you that this is grey and we should interpret it favorably for us, contactable means that you can't disappear completely. If they have been trying to reach you for 24hours you might have a hard time explaining yourself.

You often get 36hours or more rest in ANC, but only part of that is REQUIRED AFTL / RP rest (Duty + local night requirements).

But I do agree with you Iron, that doesn't mean you are on reserve. You can still be contactable but not be USEABLE, as in "I just had a beer" or "you are not giving me enough notification time to plan my rest", then it is a big "CAN NOT".

Any change in duty for earlier departure requires 12 hours notice, and that is IF (a big IF) it is acceptable to you and you feel you can be rested for it. Remember, that is your responsibility, NOT the company's. So just because it is "legal", does not mean it is "achievable".

And of course, any delay, means the duty auto-starts after 4 hours. In the winter in Anchorage, that most likely means a 4th man or a delay of at least 12 hours. So your first question if you are delayed more than 4 hours is how long your new FDP will be and will we need a fourth man. :ok:

It doesn't matter if you are required to stay in the crew hotel. There is no requirement to acknowledge paper under the door, the ringing of a telephone, or a knock. Some people need to understand how to control their rosters!!

box

Sqwak7700,

" So just because it is "legal", does not mean it is "achievable". "

not the best way to phrase it

"So just because it is "legal for you to ask", does not mean it is "legal for me to do", would be more correct.:ok:

I didn't get the note, because I was sleeping, in preparation for my rostered duty.

Simple.

If the pickup changes, they're supposed to tell the hotel to change the wake up.

I never get any notes either, the hotel staff must be slipping them under the wrong door, just cannot trust these people now can you! :confused:

Oh, and the light on the phone never blinks either, I suspect the cleaning ladies accidentally pull out the wires when they dust off the phones, really someone needs to complain to the front desk. :rolleyes:

Just show up at reception ready for the pick-up, as per your ROSTER last seen and acknowledged on the 15th of the month, and Bob's your uncle!:ok:

Roster instability? What's THAT??

Egg...frickn....zactly.

Just show up at reception ready for the pick-up, as per your ROSTER last seen and acknowledged on the 15th of the month, and Bob's your uncle!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

The only thing I acknowledge on the 15th, is that it's usually sh1t.

This whole thread is a joke. The only defense we have is not answering the phone G days or when off duty on O days. Yes, if you turn up in dispatch in Hong Kong after a changed duty, you may have a shot because the clock just started ticking. But that's about it. Once you are down-route, you are on a leash for days on end. BTW, in ANC, or any hotel, you're not on duty until you're on the plane. Sorry.

Nothing will change until the train set stops moving! Our RP's are simply HORRIBLE. Until they are fixed, nothing will get better. Stop the train set. Fight for what little you have. What a joke this place has become.

BBB, of course you're right, and yes, not on duty til at the plane, and yes, this is all pathetic, but the train won't stop running.

Got any better ideas? RP07 expired a long time ago, but nobody is doing anything about it, or even thinks anything can be done about it...yet. But nobody is going to stop the train for this either.

Just show up at reception ready for the pick-up, as per your ROSTER last seen and acknowledged on the 15th of the month, and Bob's your uncle!
That is utter rubbish and had you have ever tried that you would know that there would be no "pick up" waiting for you and eventually after a few phone calls you would be told to go back to your room. As has been stated your duty begins on the aeroplane not in the hotel reception.:ugh:

And whose fault is that?

And whose fault is that?

And which fantasy airline do you work for? Seriously.........caaaaarmon, stock talking total rubbish you tossers.