KAF Fraud

[johnnypaveway]

Four arrests in Armed Forces corruption probe - mirror.co.uk (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2012/01/12/four-arrests-in-armed-forces-corruption-probe-115875-23695106/)

[Training Risky]

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. :=

Something strange happens to Regt officers when they reach very senior rank...this goes to prove my point:E

[A2QFI]

Tax payer's money spent building airfield defences against rocket attacks + flood prevention measures? Can't see the problem, yet!

[Training Risky]

Agreed. Innocent until proven guilty.

What is probably the issue here is the 'revolving door' of the military-commercial complex. Where lots of nice gucci contracts are awarded to a mate and you then leave the mob to join said mate's company.

VSOs do it all the time, just look at Wratten and Day and the dodgy directorships they held after leaving the RAF!:* (But the bigger the crime, the more likely you are to get away with it - Fred the Shred anyone?)

[johnnypaveway]

Yes but taxpayers money used to buy earth, that is sold by a private company that has used taxpayers money to dig the earth out of the ground...........hmmmm

[ORAC]

Yes but taxpayers money used to buy earth, that is sold by a private company that has used taxpayers money to dig the earth out of the ground...........hmmmm It would appear the contract was to dig large holes - which the customer received.

The cunning bit seems to be that the contractor acquired the ownership of the spoil - possibly by the contract requiring that they "dispose" of it? Which they were then able to sell at a profit.

I would ask who wrote and approved the terms of the contract; and who then ran and sat on the board that awarded the contract; and - if as reported the individuals concerned were shareholders - at what stage they acquired the shares and whether there was a conflict of interests.

[sidewayspeak]

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy

How the mighty fall.

Of course, he may be innocent as it is just an allegation. But I look forward to seeing him doing time if they make the case stick. :D

[Airborne Aircrew]

Something strange happens to Regt officers when they reach very senior rank...

Just doing what a whole bunch of others do. He just, allegedly, did it too soon so he lacks the top cover the others have.

[Fareastdriver]

Where there's mook there's money.

[Milo Minderbinder]

I don't see the problem. Sounds like good normal business to me

[Mighty Quercus]

Far more profitable than smuggling fags, good luck to them.

[Pontius Navigator]

ORAC, you seem to be suggesting that all parties to the contract were named in the DM :}

Now many many years ago there was anot dissimilar scam at Alor Star.

The plan was to increase the RW LCN to, IIRC, 20. Accordingly truck upon truck of hardcore was delivered to the base. What no one noticed was the hardcore was then trucked off the base only to return through the main gate shortly thereafter.

Only when a Valetta landed on and went through the runway was the scam discovered. The RW LCN was classed as 5.

[alfred_the_great]

41 and a Ret'd Gp Capt? Is he a flyer*, or is that how it normally works for you chaps?

*If you'll excuse the terminology - I know he's a Regt chap.

[Pontius Navigator]

AtG, maybe faster as Rocks.

I am told that the sqn ldr was Provost.

[Courtney Mil]

I am told that the sqn ldr was Provost

Well let's hope they're as good at taking it as they are at dishing it out. I accept they are usually only doing their job, but my sympathy meter is looking pretty low right now.

Off to take a sweetness pill...

[Lima Juliet]

This pales into insignificance when you consider the alleged skullduggery of t'Baron Waste O'Space. Hard to believe that this tin-pot company is "the biggest MoD investigation" isn't it? :ugh:

LJ

[tucumseh]

Where lots of nice gucci contracts are awarded to a mate and you then leave the mob to join said mate's company.In 1992 my boss, a retired Army officer re-branded as a civvy, called me into his office.

He had met his new neighbour in the pub the previous night and it turned out he was UK head of a US company who, hitherto, had never bid for MoD UK work on their products. Ferranti had always done it - in this case, OMEGA kit.

I was instructed to cancel Ferranti's contracts forthwith and award them to this guy's one-man-and-a-dog setup. No competition. No bidding. Just give them a cost-plus contract and they'd submit the bills.

Of course, this would be fraud but I was gleefully informed only I would be committing an offence, as his instruction to commit it was not one. I thought he was talking balls, and in any case just ignored him (much to the relief of the squadrons and 30MU), but he was proven correct. PUS and successive Mins(AF) have ruled the instruction is not an offence, but both obeying and disobeying the order is. (Bizarre, but absolutely true). Interesting that he learned such a legal nicety in the Army! Although he was also a part-time Magistrate.

[Red Line Entry]

tuc,

It makes absolutely no difference if PUS, Min (AF), CDS and SofS all got together and sung it in perfect harmony. Incitement to commit a crime is in itself a criminal offence in this land (regardless of whether the crime is indeed committed or not).

[tucumseh]

RLC

Agreed, but when they all stand together, and are allowed to judge their own case, who do you go to? You'd think somewhere along the line someone would stop and think. But they are all quite happy to place their rulings in writing. Self healing, indeed. It makes me think there is something more to this particular case, but it is more likely to be because they are junior staff and easy targets. I do not excuse their (alleged) actions, but higher ups have done much worse and been praised.

[Wander00]

IIRC, in the good old days it was Regt officer cadets who came under investigation

[Red Line Entry]

Too true. It'll be interesting to see if this much-heralded 'Holding to Account' policy will make any difference in the future. I don't think we should hold our breath!

[xenolith]

I was taking the article seriously and then I read:

MoD police fraud detectives are investigating


I could only be more sure of the outcome if the RAF Police were investigating:ugh:

[Laarbruch72]

Xenolith: I'm not a fan, but The MoD Plod's CID are widely recognised as one of the leading agencies specialising in fraud investigation. Only the City of London Police are regarded as having more specialist and experienced fraud detectives. Probably tells you a lot about the MoD, but there you go.

[rarelyathome]

They're bound to unearth something! :}

[Green Flash]

Unlesss it's well buried! ;)

[Green Flash]

Or someone spills the dirt ....

[Green Flash]

Could get messy .....

[Milo Minderbinder]

I still don't see what the problem is. Wars are for making money aren't they? If they weren't then the contractors wouldn't be so profitable.

[ORAC]

No matter what the verdict, mud sticks. Their reputations will be permanently soiled.

[johnnypaveway]

I'm not having a dig.... But I think we're in danger of getting bogged down by this...

[crystal10]

be careful as he who slings mud generally loses ground.

[Rigga]

RED Sed:
"Too true. It'll be interesting to see if this much-heralded 'Holding to Account' policy will make any difference in the future. I don't think we should hold our breath! "

Damn! There goes my hopes for the Military Aviation Authority's teeth!

[Ivan Rogov]

Well if these individuals aren't careful they could end up digging a hole for themselves and be in a heap of trouble.........................I thank you :rolleyes:

[rock34]

Frankly, some of the article is utter hoop. The ex-copper was never a sqn ldr. The rest is probably true....

[Pontius Navigator]

Rock, that explains something. What rank was he?

[Fortissimo]

Does this add weight to the old dictum, "If you are in a hole, stop digging!"?

[rock34]

He made Flt Lt. IIRC, he PVR'd / left the Service shortly after getting back from a KAF tour. He went back out to KAF doing 'business' but was eventually kicked off the base as he was still using his RAF Copper Warrant / Badge as part of his 'business'. I'll shed no tears if he's sent down.

[MG]

Some interesting tales floating around the office last week of him during his time in the Province. No friend of the resident sqns apparently.

[Training Risky]

No friend of the resident sqns apparently

Especially after one of their number lost his career over a drink+car incident a few years ago....

[HamishDylan]

Ref the 41 year old retired Rockape Group Captain: read 3 year seniority wg cdr holding acting unpaid (also unwashed and unwanted just to collect the set) rank due to international pissing competition and preoccupation with 1/2 star count at KAF. Rumoured to have thrown in his towel when asked to go to PJHQ where his work would be supervised by grown ups.

Doubt there will be many tears if he is detached to the land of Stripey Sunshine at HM's pleasure - couldn't happen to a nicer bloke...:yuk:

[Fluffy Bunny]

Just sounds like sour grapes from some thruster that actually did make star rank and was beaten to it by someone else trying to make a quick buck out of MoD.

[Pontius Navigator]

I see they both have plenty of support from their friends and ex-colleagues in the Service.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

The cunning bit seems to be that the contractor acquired the ownership of the spoil - possibly by the contract requiring that they "dispose" of it? Which they were then able to sell at a profit

That is a very significant point. Before we throw rocks at the ape, snowdrop and brown job, we really need to know the terms of the contract. The spoil sale was hardly kept secret; Ian Lawson - United Kingdom | LinkedIn (http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/ian-lawson/7/659/498)
Excavated material sold onto other contractors for construction site area elevation.


Surely the salient point is a serving officer's involvement and possible profit from execution of a MoD contract?

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Interestingly, a simple Google search for Jetspark comes up with
Corporate Development at Jetspark Group; Independent Associate at BMT Defence ... New service company expanding rapidly with contracts in Afghanistan

Going to the former Honington Staish's Linkedin profile now, though, shows no mention of Jetspark; Steven Abbott | LinkedIn (http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steven-abbott/21/6b7/2b)

[Pontius Navigator]

GBZ, not sure I follow your links. Where did Steven Abbott link in?

[rarelyathome]

PN,

look at his legacy Linkedin entry that google throws up versus the current one - reference to Jetspark removed.

[Pontius Navigator]

I meant in respect of the OP. There were 4 names in the OP and Abbot wasn't one of them. Must have missed something.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Pontius Navigator, I see your point but, as rarelyathome mentioned, Steven Abbott had Jetspark as a "qualification" in his Profile/CV but has since removed it. I'm sure I would have done the same. I drew attention to it, though, as a point of interesting coincidence. I'm not suggesting in any way that there is a link to any alleged wrong doing with regard to Jetspark in the 'Stan but it would be easy to add 2 and 2 and arrive at 3.

I still believe that the salient point of any alleged wrong doing is whatever was written in the contract. MoD "Commercial Officers" have been known sod up the occasional contract. In fact, it might not have been a sod up at all and simply an interpretation of best advantage to the Crown. Limiting risk to the Crown can also have unusual consequences.

[Pontius Navigator]

GBZ, OK.

On contracts, I was involved in writing a re-bid contract. It was a classic in how not to do it.

We started with the old and updated it. We removed bits that we didn't like (unnecessary) and added bits that we highly desirable.

We met and the desirable bits were chopped out. Our individual work was merged and we departed to mull over the ashes.

We met again at a different location but a new bundle of T&S. We took our edited work only to find that the CO had re-written our original submissions that now bore no relation to the revisions we had wrought.

We left, we edited, we met again and it was all bl**dy different once again.

She just could not avoid tinkering. Our carefully crafted and specified criteria that would spell satis/unsatis had been removed and an anodyne requirement with no specific substituted.

The sitting contractor failed to win as they were unable to keep up with the changes. Personnally I think they were lucky and I got out too.

PS, none of us was asked if we had shares etc in Qinetiq or Serco!

[sidewayspeak]

Any more info on the RAF Regiment Criminal of the Year...?

[Pontius Navigator]

Counter rumour was it was a wah and nothing happened.

[A A Gruntpuddock]

If the ownership of the excavated soil is retained by the owner of the site, then they are liable for all the subsequent costs of storage, transporting, landfill charges, etc for the material.

It makes much more sense to transfer ownership of the soil to the contractor.

If they can find a way of making money from it, then they will factor that into their tender to help win the contract, which will reduce the cost of the contract to the site owner.

I had exactly this situation as an Engineer's Representative when people who should have known better complained about spoil being re-used on another site.

It had not occurred to them that both tenders were lowered because the contractor knew that he could save the costs of dumping the material in a landfill site and having to buy replacement material elsewhere.

And those who complained most were the 'greenies'. who should have been overjoyed by the environmental considerations.

In any case, I doubt if the officer in question wrote any part of the contract himself, as the MOD would no doubt have dealt with such issues.

[sidewayspeak]

Any update on the great Jonathan Derbyshire KAF Fraud.

Here's hoping he gets some porridge time.