Question on weather reports and landing

[SpeedHumpCat]

Below is a weather report for an airport i hypothetically intend on flying into.

There are no navaids whatsoever at this airfield.

If im flying an RPT aircraft, can i legally still takeoff and for want of a better phrase,"see what its like when we get there"?

Thanks

08018KT 9000 SHRA BKN008
FM120700 08020G30KT 5000 RA BKN008
TEMPO 1204/1218 VRB35G50KT 2000 TSRA BKN004 FEW030CB
RMK
T 22 23 23 23 Q 1010 1009 1010 1011

[anonymouspilot]

Sure can, but you would have to take fuel to reach an alternate airfield that itself doesn't require an alternate. The weather you gave is actually a forecast, not a report, and often forecasts are worse than the real conditions so it might be worth a shot.
Practically speaking you'd want to consider other things like what you'd do with pax at the alternate etc and I'd find some actual wx in the form of a METAR, but if you've got the fuel, legally, you can 'suck it and see'.

[Morrisman1]

make sure you take a good set of tie downs for your bird if you plan on parking in that weather!

[SpeedHumpCat]

So is it different with a METAR?

If the METAR has the cloud below the Lowest Safe Altitude, can they legally still depart?

Thanks for your replies.

SHC

[UnderneathTheRadar]

A METAR holds no legal status so far as placing or removing requirements for alternates. The forecast is king and if one doesn't exist and the area forecast shows cloud 4/8 at or below LSALT then you must have an alternate.

Australia is pretty easy going - the general concept is you can depart for anywhere and attempt any kind of approach no matter what. There are never going to be restrictions which prevent you from departing due to forecast or actual at the destination - you may still be hours away and things could get better (or worse). The forecast only tells you if you require an alternate.

Other countries will prevent some operators (RPT, CHTR) from commencing an approach if the weather reported below minimums - something that doesn't happen here.

[anonymouspilot]

A METAR wouldn't change the requirements, you could still go (with an alternate). It may however, give you a better idea of the actual wx, and your chances of getting in.
I can only remember a couple of times when I've not been able to take off, due to very widespread crappy wx and no alternate available on pretty much the whole east coast.

[Capn Bloggs]

All the aids at ZNE failed, have they?! ;)

You can only arrive in the daytime. RPT IFR cannot even plan to go to an airport without aids at night (AIP ENR 1.1 58.3.2) [dunno whether RNAV(GNSS) is OK for this] . Also, if Hicap RPT, when you get there, you couldn't get out ecause you need an aid to leave - CAO 82.5 5.2 (although, in this case you could, provided you are RNAV(GNSS) approved).

If all the aids are out, the tarmac lights are also out. No go (ENR 1.1 59.1)! ;)

[SpeedHumpCat]

You can only arrive in the daytime. RPT cannot even plan to go to an airport without aids at night (AIP ENR 1.1 58.3.1) [dunno whether RNAV(GNSS) is OK for this] . Also, if Hicap RPT, when you get there, you couldn't get out ecause you need an aid to leave - CAO 82.5 5.2 (although, in this case you could, provided you are RNAV(GNSS) approved).

If all the aids are out, the tarmac lights are also out. No go (ENR 1.1 59.1)! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif

Oh now thats interesting Captain.

Do the rules change if its charter, eg flying into a minesite by airline charter?

[Capn Bloggs]

Yes. The rules are different (and not as strict) for non-RPT ie charter. Have a look thru those refs and you'll be able to work out which bits apply only to RPT.

[Jabawocky]

Hey Bloggs,

No TSO 146 GPS for you guys yet?:E

That's gotta suck.

[Capn Bloggs]

TSO 146 GPS
Please explain?? http://www.smilies.our-local.co.uk/index_files/scratchhd.gif

Oh, I got it. I can get a 146; just need a TSO to go with it. Is that right? :}

Got a GPS lock with my android over the GAFA today. I'm half way there! :E

[Damien1989]

You can only arrive in the daytime. RPT cannot even plan to go to an airport without aids at night (AIP ENR 1.1 58.3.1)

Where does it say that? That section of the AIP only mentions an alternate is required for rpt if no aid is available. No mention of anything to do with night arrivals.

[Capn Bloggs]

58.3.2 Notwithstanding the above, a flight may be planned under the IFR by day to a destination aerodrome which is not served by a radio
navigation aid without the requirement to provide for a suitable al-ternate aerodrome, provided that:
a. not more than SCT cloud is forecast below the final route seg-ment LSALT plus 500FT and forecast visibility at the destination aerodrome is not less than 8KM; and...

By day means not by night. :ok:

PS: changed my earlier post. :ouch:

[Damien1989]

keep reading... ENR 1.10 1.4.2 & 1.5.2

[Capn Bloggs]

I wasn't considering 1.4.2 as OP was "RPT aircraft"; unlikely to be <5700kg.

1.5.2 doesn't apply as there are no aids (as opposed to failed aids).

[Checkboard]

Other countries will prevent some operators (RPT, CHTR) from commencing an approach if the weather reported below minimums - something that doesn't happen here.

Actually, it may happen here. If you attempt an approach knowing the minima is below the landing minima, you could be considered to be in breach of CAR 257.


CIVIL AVIATION REGULATIONS 1988 - REG 257
Aerodrome meteorological minima
...
(4) If an element of the meteorological minima for the landing of an aircraft at an aerodrome is less than that determined for the aircraft operation at the aerodrome, the aircraft must not land at that aerodrome.

Penalty: 50 penalty units.

(4A) An offence against subregulation (3) or (4) is an offence of strict liability.
...

(6) This regulation does not prevent a pilot from:

(a) making an approach for the purpose of landing at an aerodrome; or...

if the pilot believes, on reasonable grounds, that the meteorological minima determined for that aerodrome will be at, or above, the meteorological minima determined for the aerodrome at the time of arrival at that aerodrome.
(Emphasis mine)
CIVIL AVIATION REGULATIONS 1988 - REG 257 Aerodrome meteorological minima (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/car1988263/s257.html)