Prestige Jet B737 N647SR in Tel Aviv

[Waste Management]

Prestige Jet's B737-500 with registration N647SR has been spotted operating regularly in Tel Aviv, Amman and Beirut recently.

It is reported that the aircraft is operating commercial charter flights under US Federal Air Regulations Part 91, which most people will tell you is not legal.

The pilots are said to be low-time, previously no heavy jet experience and no PIC, rushed through training after the captain which came with the aircraft walked off in London.

Anybody else wondering what the government of United Arab Emirates, GCAA and FAA might have to say about this - and, if nothing, why?

[RoyHudd]

Your location gives it away, along with your name. Why not refer to Beirut or Amman in your thread title, schmuck?. Nope, Tel Aviv is the one, huh?

[Waste Management]

Well, yes, because UAE air carriers are prohibited from flying to that place, and not the others, so I did not consider them newsworthy.

We can amend the title, if it is so offensive. I just attempted to do so but it changed only the post heading and not the thread title. Please feel free to change the thread title, or else to delete the thread and I will re-post.

But I do not think that your language is warranted, either, because I consider newsworthy something that is illegal for the rest of us.

[slipper 1]

So where is this aircraft currently based?

[Waste Management]

Abu Dhabi. Being operated off-AOC as N-registered Part 91 operation by Abu Dhabi-based operator Prestige Jet Rentals, which is owned by a member of the Abu Dhabi royal family.

I did not intend to offend, but I do think that this is newsworthy. I wonder if the moderator did not discern the UAE operator angle, and thought the post had an anti-Semitic intention. I apologize for that - I failed to anticipate this - am willing to withdraw the thread if it is offensive.

[el sol]

I don't see anything anti semitic here, just newsworthy info, keep at it WM !

[falconeasydriver]

Pull your head in Roy, where was the offence in this post? I fail to see any reason for your intemperate post, you need to get off your soapbox and apologise.

[ENFP]

Nothing wrong at all, I think RoyHudd is out of order with his tone. He should be apologizing not you. I understood completely what you were driving at when I read Tel Aviv in the title.

[Waste Management]

Thank you for your interest, comments and support, mates.

This operator, Prestige Jet, has had a history of issues with a variety of topics and aspects of operations which are well-documented on a separate thread, if you care to look into that. The arrival of this aircraft is the latest development and a ratcheting-up of its behaviours: since this aircraft has arrived there have already been issues with the captain walking off in London, allegedly due to non-payment but believed to be over the legality of operating an N-registered B737 in commercial charters under US FAR 91 without any AOC and its attendant regulatory supervision, now this issue of being a UAE operator with aircraft based in Abu Dhabi with UAE-resident crew operating to Israel.

I personally am all for improving relations and commerce among nations and people, but the fact is that this covert operation is against the laws of UAE, as I understand them, as well as against a number of GCAA and FAA regulations. If the government of UAE wishes to encourage commerce with Israel, let the rest of us in on the business, too.

In the meantime, it remains a curiosity in respect of GCAA and FAA failure to respond to and act upon the widely known issues with this aircraft and this operator.

[ENFP]

Seems to me all this information needs to be sent to a multitude of other places other than PPRuNe!

[Waste Management]

If you have any suggestions, ENFP or others, I would be happy to learn where you think this information might do some good. It seems to me that GCAA is well-proven to have no interest in holding Prestige Jet to the regulations. There is a long history and many specific examples of such, much of which appears in the long-running http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/450974-prestige-jet-all-merged-threads.html thread which, as of this writing, has 419 posts and nearly 70,000 views. Besides the usual back-and-forth, there are some credible posts with very specific details of issues and GCAA reaction - or lack thereof - regarding such issues.

Please feel free to disseminate this information wherever you feel it appropriate, as a more effective alternative to discussing where to send it, here on PPRuNe. If you do, I would suggest providing some of the history, so that this non-AOC commercial B737 operation can be seen in proper context: the latest effort to operate outside regulatory oversight by an organization with a history of disrespect of safety, labour, financial, political and other norms.

[EX TERMINATOR]

Dear WM and everyone,
Among hundreds of posts in this and other threads, there have been enough facts and proofs presented to incriminate this outfit. There has also been enough time for authorities to verify such proofs. The problem is that no authority seemed to care and take any action. This drives me to agree that said proofs have to be presented elsewhere, as well as in this forum, so that proper actions are taken to stop violations and illegal practices by PJ.
Ex

[Heavy D]

There are some things that are not worth reporting, and this is one of them. Obviously, WM, you are a professional in the air carrier and aviation business. Do you believe that Prestige Jet is taking pilgrims to visit Al Quds? WM made a good observation, but if he really is in Dubai, I ask him: who is a bigger threat to the U.A.E? Israel or your neighbor across the Arabian Gulf? Maybe one country has something another country desperately needs. Maybe this is why the GCAA acts the way it does?

PJ is serving the people of Abu Dhabi in one form or another, the specifics of which are not appropriate to put on an internet forum such as this.:=

Fly Safe :O
Heavy D

[fatbus]

OMG the sky is falling. This falls into the "Who cares"

[Waste Management]

Dear Heavy D,

Thank you for your response.

I have stated very clearly that I have no problem with any service to anywhere, including Israel, and that I am in favour of increasing transport and communication everywhere. I have not stated that I consider Israel to be a threat, either.I agree with you that Iran is of concern for Dubai and other neighbours.

The question which I have raised is that of different rules for different operators having the same AOCs from the same oversight authority. Other UAE operators are prohibited from serving Israel in any manner, yet we see one of our competitors utilizing an Abu Dhabi-based aircraft to do so, in what is said to be commercial service. If it is some kind of special mission on behalf of the government of UAE, which you state in your post, that is interesting and hopeful, as it might be early signs of normalization of relations.

The issue of the aircraft being uitlized in commercial public charters while not being governed by any AOC is discussed in another thread.

[EX TERMINATOR]

The message that WM and many of us are conveying to the readers is that PJ is violating aviation rules and regulations. Whether it flies to Israel or Panama is not the issue. Whether there is a tendancy for normalising countries' relations is not the issue, either, much less whether Iran or Israel are competing to pose greater threats to the area. So I fail to understand the reason for this deviation from the core issues.
As for PJ serving the people of the UAE PJ is serving the people of Abu Dhabi in one form or another..I think we ought to focus on the manner in which such services are being rendered. Think of this as one of the core issues, not the politics and international relations.
Ex.

[Waste Management]

Mates, it is reported that said B737 was impounded and repossessed at Al Bateen yesterday, and flown to Bournemouth last night. Unless this is another cloak-and-dagger mission on behalf of the people of Abu Dhabi.

[PPRuNe Towers]

That would be terribly unfortunate if true.

Earlier this week the captain informed me bad people would be coming around for a chat if all reference to the 737 operation was not removed. Occam's razor would suggest we get to have a chat surely?

Rob

[Waste Management]

Dear PPRuNe Towers,

I hope that you have reported this to the authorities as a serious threat.

If the aircraft was repossessed, it would be because the company did not pay its rent or failed to abide by some regulation or lease requirement. Judging by the other thread regarding Prestige Jet, such would not be an isolated incident. It certainly would not have occurred because of anything which is reported on PPRuNe. Especially if the issues reported on PPRuNe are accurate.

Having said that, do what you need to do. If you go back to the original postings, I offered to withdraw the thread and suggested that PPRuNe remove it, if it offended anybody. That was due to the possible misconception of the reference to Tel Aviv. In fact, the response from the new PPRuNe member - which sounding like it came from somebody at Prestige Jet - appeared to confirm all that has been stated but requested that we pipe down because it was some kind of mission on behalf of the government of Abu Dhabi. Which we did.

If the aircraft has been repossessed and removed, that is on Prestige Jet, not on PPRuNe or anything reported on PPRuNe. All we did was ask how they are permitted to do that and we are not.The fact that they were doing it is a matter of public record on the aircraft and ATC. If they blame their shortcomings on a handful of kibbitzers on PPRuNe, they are really pathetic.

In any case, if true, this particular issue is finished, anyway.