View Full Version : Are there any jobs in Europe?
3rd Jan 2012, 17:49
Ryanair only take cadets, EZY is the same way.
Wizz is barely hiring. Same with jet2 who has more then enough qualified applicants as it is.
BA wants big jet time, so do all the other major carriers, and they either require a language, or their mailboxes are filled with applications from guys who hate their life in Dubai and are trying to go back home, who have thousands of hours on 777 type aircraft.
So are there any decent places to go, or steps up, for a guy with 1,800TT with the vast majority of it on a JAR-25 turbo-prop? Without having to take a loan for 20,000£ for a type or whatever it costs these days.
Even if I wanted to go over-seas for work I don't have the time for it, and would be competing against guys with thousands of hours on 737s who on the other hand are desperate to get out of places like RYR. But that doesn't open up any spaces when they leave, as they only take on cadets. :ugh:
Every flight school should start off with a two day course that immerses you in the real-world of airline flying, so everyone knows and is warned properly of what they are getting themselves into. Applied to various companies without even a nibble or the standard automated replies.
Happy New Year!
3rd Jan 2012, 18:01
You have more than 1000 hours so you can apply to eastern, but they still charge you for a type rating
There are jobs, even at the major carriers. However many of those require certain language skills besides the usual english. And some of them do not require any jet time at all, or any experience for that matter. However, you are correct that those usually have more application than they can handle. And of course we begin to enter a new recession in many countries which leads to reduced opportunities all over, especially in a market that has quite a bit of overcapacity anyway.
All in all, there are some openings, but chances are slim to get in and in most cases you need to know the local language.
3rd Jan 2012, 19:24
Well seems little/if anything in the UK at present :
Astraeus - Gone bust. 737/757 drivers looking
Thomas Cook - Redundancies of around 70, no hiring
Thomsonfly - no recruitment, although apparently short of crew?
Titan - no recruitment?
BMI - no recruitment, buyout by IAG
BMIbaby - no recruitment, to be sold?
DHL UK - no recruitment
Easyjet - Only via CTC cadets
Ryanair - Only cadet entry, although DEC opening up if experienced
BA - DEP currently not open, but ongoing assessments
BA cityflyer - unknown
Jet2 - Fully crewed for 757?, limited recruitment for 737
Virgin - Limited recruitment type rated
Flybe - no recruitment
Monarch - 5 757 FOs, 30 A320 FOs
UK recession, EU break up, Iran conflict and runaway oil prices won't help in 2012 :*
Mr R Sole
3rd Jan 2012, 20:53
There have been interviews at Titan and BA Cityflyer very recently. No idea on numbers or requirements.
3rd Jan 2012, 23:32
you just missed out on the latest interviews but keep an eye on the website for future recruitment. Flying E190 / E170 for BA from LCY and EDI. Fun job but not the best paid, but you do get some of the BA perks.
Training is very good and you don`t have pay for your type rating.
BA uniform, BA staff travel.
3rd Jan 2012, 23:41
Why would you waste your time in Europe when you can come to the Middle East and earn more as an FO than many a Captain in Euroland?, training is very good and you don't have to wear a BA uniform:ok:
4th Jan 2012, 01:40
The only option he has with that exp in the middle east is with Qatar... not exactly the cream of the crop...
It is getting a bit late in the recruitment season, many of the airlines listed above have already completed their recruitment. With no irony at all, don't be too surprised if Thomas Cook might have to recruit a few peeps this spring if more bail out than originally planned, but these will be part year contracts if they happen at all.
The other possibility is that recruitment in Europe is heading for a huge bust, having been a boom (in relative terms) for the last few years. The only way is East, I fear.
4th Jan 2012, 16:19
I'm in the same boat my friend. Things in Europe are no good. And us being TP drivers doesn't help much here or overseas either, as they all want jet time, seems anything other then jet time seems to be often frowned upon almost everywhere, so options are very limited.. I guess TPs aren't airplanes :rolleyes:
Good luck to ya.
Jimmy Hoffa Rocks
4th Jan 2012, 16:46
Vueling and Iberia Express will be hiring pilots shortly.
They have already completed part of their selection process but more to come.
I think the non type rated selection is finished ?
Vueling will hire pilots with A-320 experience.
4th Jan 2012, 22:30
Plus you have to speak Spanish (from I've heard).
5th Jan 2012, 08:14
VUELING: FO salary 830 euros gross/ month plus duty pay, make it 1800-2200 gross/month for an FO flying 90 hours per month. Only 4 month contract offered, during summer (so don't go on holidays in summer time :p). And afterwards, who knows? they'll say byebye to you, or they'll offer a part time winter contract (=415 euros/months...GROSS).
Of course spanish is more than mandatory and command upgrade depending on seniority it will now take 10 years to see the LHS.
It's better to be a footballer than an airline pilot in spain :eek:
Iberia express may start to hire underpaid cadets very soon. keep an eye on the website :ok:
5th Jan 2012, 10:34
BA or any other legacy carrier requiring a language???? Sorry but what the hell are you on about??!
5th Jan 2012, 10:40
Forget it. What's a flying job close to home if it harms your life further? It's so bad I've now forbidden my wife from spending any more money on the house (should've done that a long time ago really :hmm:) because this place is not where our immediate future lies. I'm convinced there is no future for me within Europe for the next 5 years at least. I left an industry taking home twice the average new FO starting salary. Even if I were to find a job at home, financially speaking, I would struggle to run my household earning the sort of starting salaries being offered whilst keeping everyone happy. On top of that the likes of EZY and RYR decide how much you fly and therefore how much you earn and treat you like gypsies with no attempt or desire to base you in a country/city which will help you maximise your monthly savings. How can you live a life with a young family with no idea how much income next month will bring? These airlines (and more) display a shocking lack of empathy for their employees. Itís become pitiful.
Well said Superpilot,
I'm coming to the end of my training and starting to look around. The numbers on this just don't add up, anymore.
The airlines wanted us to pay for our training - so we did.
Now they want us to pay for Type Ratings - which some of us have.
Finally, they expect us to live off peanuts, furnish the aforementioned debt and move to the work...
The numbers on this don't work.
People can say that there will always be some muppet willing to take a crap deal. However, financially, this is now almost impossible - unless you have parents or a wife that can cover the first twelve to eighteen months when you're paid 50% salary or less etc.
It's going to be an interesting next couple of years on the recruitment front as the supply of people who can or are willing to subject themselves to this nonsense dries up. Just my prediction.
5th Jan 2012, 11:52
is corporate aviation not an option for you ? i made this step three years ago and feel a little better with it.
with 1800hours you should be well prepared for it when you can accept to fly something small like a king air or a cheyenne etc.
well what did you expect, airlines are like drug addicts, they have never ever ever had enough of your money and T&C's. The last generation of new pilots have made their bed, now they will have to lie in it. Is it any wonder Iberia Flight Deck are going on strike, they may look like overpaid prima donnas and to go on strike when a quarter of their countrymen are jobless looks crass, but unwittingly they are striking to save some sort of lifestyle for the all of us. It has always been the case that the national carriers have set the benchmark for pay and conditions and those t&c got worse as you went down the feeding chain towards the tp (and latterly LoCo) operators, now the benchmark in our global business is getting lower by the year, you end up with the like of Vueling offering what I can only describe as an insult for a salary. More fool anyone taking it!:ugh:
ps Sorry for the rant, I actually do feel sorry for the individuals caught in this bind. But I can see parity with train drivers only a few years away for Left Seat, Right seat will work for food only.
5th Jan 2012, 12:43
My thoughts entirely Poose.
I completed my modular training a few years back and have had one fairly:mad:offer recently which I turned down. Luckily I kept my day job.
The investment to get your licence compared to the return on salaries has made less and less sense over the past few years but we are now seeing Ts and Cs targeted even by the legacy carriers (see the BA thread).
The "numbers" have been marginal for a while but how can anyone looking at training now think that the outlay is worth it?
£100K+ of debt for an industry offering the kind of "opportunities" it is at the moment is complete madness.
Surely people HAVE TO realise this one day and the supply of people willing to work for peanuts will dry up and companies will stop taking the :mad: Here's hoping!
Maybe it's because I'm a bit older but I realise the importance of the work/life balance and, with the money/ base/ roster deals that are becoming the norm, a career as a commercial pilot looks less appealing daily.
Wholeheartedly agree. Interesting times ahead.
My situation: I'm a single bloke with just my training debts (£20,000 Unsecured Loan) and a half decent Aerospace Engineering 'day job', living with relatives rent free. No ties. I'm willing to move to any UK based job and all I ask for is that it enables me to service my 'minimal' debt and LIVE.
At the minute... It's not possible, for even a single bloke with no responsibilities. :rolleyes:
Airlines aren't living in the real world with the sort of Terms and Conditions on offer. You cannot service any form of debt and support yourself on any of the airlines starting salaries. And if they ask for a Type Rating to be paid, then you most definitely cannot.
I believe that the pilot job market, like any market that has 'overheated' will face a period of stagnation or 'cooling' like the current property market. No first time buyers can enter the fray, house prices fall.
Let's see whether or not people will pay to join this nonsense. I think we're pretty much at the point where it is financially impossible to make this work for anyone who is not fortunate enough to have vast financial support.
P.S. A shortfall of pilots at Ryanair and the difficulty that Cabair is facing are areas of particular relevance to my theory.
sadly, you won't achieve this with a pilots job in the UK, whatever job you take, even abroad, you will have to accept a substantial drop in your income for several years. You may struggle ever to return to the UK.
Airlines are the cutting edge of capitalism, red in tooth and claw, and they will continue to find people who can just scrape by on the scraps that they offer you, nothing is going to change anytime soon. Its no consolation, but its not a great deal better further up the feeding chain, at present.