Experience of bringing a/c to UK from USA

[selim]

Hi, does anyone know whats involved in terms of bringing back a C182S from the USA to UK.
I can see plenty of people ferrying them over but I am sure it must be cheaper to remove the wings and container it over?

Also, I know I need to pay VAT, re register with the legalised thieves at gatwick , fit an adf but aside from this I am not sure what else is involved seeing as I have not done it before

Any help or advice appreciated as I have now found an aircraft I am seriously considering putting an offer in on

Thanks

[peterh337]

I am sure you will get lots of advice, but the answer will initially depend on what it's worth.

If it is worth say £100k+ then you should pay for a ferry flight. You don't want to take the wings etc off a classy machine because it may never fly straight again :)

And if it's worth say only £30k then it's not worth importing.

Obviously you will want to leave it on the N-reg if possible, but then you will need FAA pilot papers, in addition to the EASA papers which EASA is threatening you will need. Leaving it on N avoids the various issues with putting it onto the G register (e.g. engine past 12 years) and has other benefits (some notes here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/faa-nreg/index.html)).

The stuff about fitting an ADF etc is a UK airspace requirement and is not related to the aircraft reg.

Actually the ADF requirement has just been removed, except for flying approaches which contain an NDB, which great many do :) A DME is a virtually universal requirement for IFR in Europe. Mode S too...

If you need avionics installed, do it all in the USA before bringing it here.

[selim]

Thanks the A/C is approx GBP 90K

I am interted to know why it would be preferable to leave it on the N reg, being only a renter prior to now is this due to lower maintenance requirements etc?

[englishal]

I disagree about taking the wings off....Taking the wings off lets you check for all manner of nastiness ;) It is also not a big deal as long as when the aeroplane is reassembled the rigging is properly set up and checked, which any competent engineer would do anyway. Besides I'd have the wings off in the USA and if anything untoward is found, get it rectified there. Also bung a load of spares in the container with the bits ;)

I'd also get a major overhaul carried out on the engine if it is beyond half time (though depends on many things whether you do this or not).

It is probably far cheaper to disassemble the aeroplane, have it properly crated up in custom made crates and then shipped in a container to Euroland than ferry flying it....if we're talking about your average SEP. You are talking about £5,000 to have an aeroplane re-assembled from separate boxes containing fuselage, engine, wings, control surfaces etc....

[500 above]

I believe there is a ferry pilot on another thread looking for more work... :O

[ferrydude]

Interesting comments. While removing the wings does indeed afford a thorough inspection, it is most definitely not cheaper to transport via a container from U.S. to UK. Done both, numerous times over many years.

[englishal]

Can't be much in it though, by the time you have paid for fuel, insurances, ferry pilot, expenses, etc...for the average SEP which can be crated and shipped relatively easily?? Maybe Twins are a different story and I am curious what sort of costs one is looking at to ferry an aeroplane from US to UK? One can do much of the dismantling work oneself. I think you could do it in a container for ~£6,000 including crating, shipping and re-assembly back to an airworthy standard - possibly including a new annual at the time of re-assembly.

Certainly not as much fun though ;) If I were to import an aeroplane from the USA I'd probably ferry it with a ferry pilot with the stipulation that I come along for the ride and experience (and even some of the flying).

[selim]

500 above...I think I might give that certain ferry pilot a very wide berth!!!

[peterh337]

I'd be interested to know how much more of a prebuy inspection you get by taking the wings off, compared to not taking the wings off.

Also, who is going to let you take the wings off their plane before they have your money in the bank? :)

If I was buying a plane in the USA, I would get all required avionics mods done there, and also (while you have the downtime doing that) get the engine shipped to one of the most reputable specialist engine shops for a rebuild. Then, the most important bit is a known quantity ;)

Re the reasons for staying on N, see the link I already posted. The maintenance isn't cheaper as such (the stories about crap maintenance on N-regs is just crap; there is plenty of crap and illegal work done on G-regs, and you can do stuff off the books on either reg) but you get a lot more flexibility as to who does it and where, and the end result is a higher grade of maintenance on N, with less downtime, for a given cost. When you become an aircraft owner, you climb up a steep learning curve, and one of the key bits of learning is that what matters most is who you know is good and who to avoid, and the FAA Part 91 process makes this a lot easier to execute.

[ferrydude]

Gee, I wonder why transport via container is the least popular method of transporting singles from U.S. the Europe? Do it yourself dismantling? Now there's an advantage. Good luck with that one.:D

[A and C]

However you move the aircraft get the think up to scratch in the USA AD,s & SB,s and engine are the headline items but flex hoses, avionics, paint, upholstery, Prop Overhaul and a feast of other nif naf & trivia are all cheaper in the states.

I would not worry about it if the wings came off for shipping but you do need to have someone who knows what They are doing at both ends........that might be the hardest thing to find.

[NazgulAir]

If the wings are taken off for shipment, that is an excellent opportunity to do some serious maintenance and preparation for the UK climate.

One thing to look at is the amount of rust protection the airframe has. In some US areas they never experience the kind of corrosive weather we have here, so places like the insides of the wings may not have been treated.

[ferrydude]

Corrosion preventing compounds can be applied just as effectively, wings on, or wings off with a 182. really makes no difference. One advantage of removing the wings is it gives a perfect opportunity to install the Monarch fuel tanks, a large improvement over the standard Cessna bladder tanks IMO. Although not applicable to the wet wings of the OP's 182S, it would be for older model 182's.

[ferrydude]

Selim, it may be advantageous for you to make your seller include an FAA Export Certificate of Airworthiness. This tends to avoid headaches on down the road. With an individual seller, this can be an issue, less so with a dealer.

[monacam44]

I looked at doing something similar a year ago. Cost of shipping it will be less than flying it over. Talk to Big Misters, they do this a lot.

Mona
G-RVCL

[NazgulAir]

@ferrydude -- sorry, I didn't realize it can be done just as easily with the wings on. Still, the point I am making is that rust protection and other big jobs are best done prior to leaving the USA.

If you do take the opportunity to purchase some parts, make sure they come with the proper export documentation (as it is not normally needed in the USA you may have to remind them)

[englishal]

Do it yourself dismantling? Now there's an advantage. Good luck with that one
Been there and done that and got the photos ;) Even assisted with putting many of the bits back together under the watchful eye of our maintenance place.

Seriously though, there are times the wings have to come off and then you can take advantage, do a very thorough inspection of the spars and while you are at it fit new wing bolts. I reckon that is $100 well spent on a 20 year old aeroplane. I am not saying take them off for a pre-buy inspection, but after you have bought the thing it really is no big deal to take the wings off or any other bit come to think of it.

We've had elevators, rudders, wings, engines, wheels...in fact everything off ours (Rockwell Commander) in the past and at one point it was stored on numerous shelves and racks and looked like a box of bits. I am really glad too as we found a hairline crack on one of the rudder hinges which would NEVER EVER have been found had the rudder not been removed. Not to mention the nick in the metal hydraulic line to the undercarriage which had happened when someone, probably 20 years earlier, had managed to nick the piping with a drill bit or something similar.

If you are keeping it on the N reg then the assembly is the prime time to get the annual signed off. If you are putting it on the G reg, the same applies.

Just my view...

[ferrydude]

Been there and done that and got the photos Even assisted with putting many of the bits back together under the watchful eye of our maintenance place.

While some buyers may take great interest in such things, many don't. Please share your experience for the original poster. What type of aircraft? Standard category, or experimental? Was there an FAA Export Airworthiness Certificate issued? Oh yes, pics would be great.

[Zulu Alpha]

I have bought an aircraft back from the US in a container.

If you have the time then the cheapest is to arrange the container, customs insurance yourself. Otherwise you can find people who will do it all for you but they generally charge a few £1000's.

Keeping an aircraft of the N register is quite a good idea as all that is needed is to reassemble it and get it signed off by a US certified mechanic, and there are lots of those over here. If the reassembly is easy then you can be flying within a day of opening the container.

If you move it to the G register then it needs to be inspected and anything non standard has been fitted then you will need to remove it or apply for permission. This can be a time consuming and costly process.

So, its worth flying it here on the N register while you change to the G register. If you run into any problems then you can leave it on the N. If it all checks out OK then you can go to the G.

You can get a G reg assigned by paying the fee to the CAA registration dept. They will then issue the reg number which you can use in all the paperwork. This can be done at any time, even before the aircraft ships. It is very helpful to have the new reg number on all the paperwork rather than the old N reg. The certificate of registration will not be issued until the registration dept receive notification from the US authorities that it has been de-registered there.

Good luck

[mary meagher]

Couple of items I found out the hard way. Mud daubers (wasps) like to build nests inside wings. And check the oil filter, that there are no metal fragments....if the aircraft has been a hangar queen all kinds of problems may develop. Was it kept in a hangar in Arizona or at Ocean City Municipal airport, where the salt air does strange things to metal.....If you are spending this kind of money, you really should go there and fly it yourself and take it to an independent engineer.

etc etc. And in general, check the references of the person you are buying it from, strange things happen in cross atlantic aircraft sales, eg money laundering.

[peterh337]

If you move it to the G register then it needs to be inspected and anything non standard has been fitted then you will need to remove it or apply for permission. This can be a time consuming and costly process

Unless you know exactly what you are doing, it is a huge can of worms.

[selim]

The older Q that is already in the UK and on the register is becoming more and more appealing all the time!

Thank you all for your valuable input, my inexperience in this aspect of aviation is becoming clearer by the minute

[NazgulAir]

The older Q that is already in the UK and on the register is becoming more and more appealing all the time!

Yes... when I first looked at aircraft to buy I also thought of importing from the USA. The list of things that need doing and risks that need managing became longer and longer... in the end I bought a good old G-reg.
Maybe it is worth doing for a special/otherwise unobtainable/rare or very expensive bird, but for ordinary spam cans the expense and the risks are discouraging.