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this is my username
26th Dec 2011, 19:15
Currently training for an FAA IR. One of the (many) challenges I have is retaining the amount of information required for an instrument approach.

I''m pretty numerate but have a poor short-term memory, so trying to self-brief the approach plate and then remember "at x.x miles descend to yy feet, att z.z miles descend to aa feet, at bb miles and cc feet go missed or land, for the missed approach climb to 1,000ft then turn to 123 degrees and intersect the 345 degree radial" etc etc whilst at the same time flying the aircraft on instruments is proving to be difficult.

Has anyone else had the same problem, and / or does anyone have any top tips about how to remember / assimilate the data so that you can focus on flying the aircraft?

Thanks

johnnyDB
26th Dec 2011, 20:27
no worries, this gets easier with practise.
If you know where you're headin', try and do it in advance...

student88
27th Dec 2011, 00:26
Scan like your life depends on it (which it will).

Think systematically, being situationally aware allows you to disregard the information on the plate that is no longer applicable.

Give the plate a good study before you go and fly it, don't forget about the missed approach, don't just go around at MDA when you're expected to fly level until the MAP (like I did in my IR skills test, luckily he passed me as it wasn't unsafe).

What aircraft are you learning in? Flying the test in a Seneca will be a nightmare in comparison to something like a DA42.

Tinstaafl
27th Dec 2011, 04:21
You're not trying to memorise the approach when you brief it. Your pre-approach brief is to make sure you have the correct approach (very easy to get either the approach *or* the location wrong), configure the aircraft/avionics, catch any traps, and give you a general overview of the procedure.

Things in the brief to cover:

* Correct runway, approach & location. If multi-crew then compare dates too, to make sure everyone is following the same procedure.

* Avionics tuned, ident & set. Pre-tune as much as you can.

* Plan view: get a general idea of your entry and approach layout eg left procedure turn prior to a right teardrop/break towards the aid circling.

* Profile view: Descent limitations

* Minima

* Where to expect the runway/how you'll break for a circling procedure. Don't forget circling limitations...

* Missed approach overview.

* Notes/precautions/limitations.

Not everything on the page will apply to you. Part of the brief is to discriminate.


One way to keep your mind focused on the next most important thing during an approach or hold is to continually self brief the most important info. I use & teach 'T.A.A.': Track Altitude Aid.

Track: Next direction of turn, HDG or Tr. to intercept, set HDG bug/OBS if possible eg "Next: L teardrop to track 180", "R turn outbound Head 235 1 min",

Note: 'tracks' are to be intercepted. Headings to be held +/- drift allowance

Altitude: Next target altitude + next altitude limit eg "2000, not below 2300 til 5 DME", "MDA 550, missed climb 3000"

Aid: Flags away (VOR/ILS) / Ident OK (NDB) + set/tuned if a change is necessary / approach mode incl. WAAS if GPS. Of course, given enough boxes then you'd make sure these were all set prior to commencing the approach eg "Flags away", "ident OK"

This would be done as soon as you've got yourself established on each leg to prepare for the *next* leg. As soon as you have the current leg working OK (or is trending that way) then it's time to think of the next leg.

this is my username
28th Dec 2011, 09:02
Thanks guys, that's all really useful

what next
28th Dec 2011, 10:26
Hello!

The most important things have already been written, but maybe this helps a little as well:

I use to tell my students that flying IFR (especially approaches) is similar to playing music. A well trained musician must be able to play almost every piece of music from his note sheet. Which in your case is your approach plate, which therefore needs to be placed in a visible and well lit spot that is easily included in your instrument scan (preferrably not on the kneeboard!).

But even the best musician must memorise and rehearse the real difficult and time-critical parts of his score before starting to play. In our case, these are the parts of the approach that are flown close to the ground: The minimum and the first minute or so of the missed approach procedure. These are (for most approaches) the only bits that really need to be memorised, the rest can be "played from the note sheet". 200 feet above the ground is the wrong time to start wondering "was it 1381 or 1831?" and looking around the plate for the correct figure! Same with the missed approach: The first minute you will be very busy controlling/re-configuring your aircraft therefore you must be able to "play" it without looking at your sheet.

And mind you: The most difficult and potentially dangerous approaches (e.g. into mountain valleys) need to trained and regularly rehearsed on the simulator by all commercial pilots before they are allowed to fly them with the real airplane. So why not do the same? I encourage my students to fly every training mission on the PC at home the evening before our flight. It costs nothing and provides an excellent preview for the timing and the sequence of events that they can expected from the real flight thereby taking a lot of unnecessary stress away!

RichardH
28th Dec 2011, 20:03
Accurate trimming of the aircraft so it can more or less fly hands free. Get the aircraft to work for you.

UnitedJockey
28th Dec 2011, 21:08
There are some good suggestions in the above posts. Here are my methods, for what it's worth.

I've found it useful to review the approach (if possible) before the flight and highlight critical information with a fluorescent pen. As you progress in your career you will 'blindly' find the right bits.

In flight, after briefing the approach I note down the following sequence of critical information (actual values for the IAP go on the lines - I think all are self-explanatory; 'Alt' refers to the intercept altitude for the procedure):
IAP/RWY_______ Freq______ CRS_____ Alt______ (M)DA______ MAP__________

Depending on your aircraft equipment, tune the required navaids and dial in as much info as you can on OBS, altitude tapes etc.

During the approach, constantly ask yourself what should be your current track & altitude, until when and what is your next track & altitude.

Good luck!

KAG
28th Dec 2011, 21:24
Currently training for an FAA IR. One of the (many) challenges I have is retaining the amount of information required for an instrument approach. I''m pretty numerate but have a poor short-term memory

Ask your instructor about your next lesson. Prepare/practice it on your personal microsoft flight simulator (or similar) until everything concerning the procedure (and the different advices you got here form Tinstaafl and others) is completely memorized and understood so that when you get to the airplane you can focus on the flying itself.

After the real lesson, write down all the flight, all the key points, your mistakes, all the exercices and redo them exactly in the same order, same airport, same route, again on your flight sim THE SAME DAY.

Do that for each IR lesson.

dreamlinerguy
29th Dec 2011, 17:32
Probably the best advice i was ever given throughout my training:

DONT F*** IT UP!

kaptn
29th Dec 2011, 23:26
One thing I learnd : In IR flight, a pilot should never have empty time to enjoy outside world....you should always be doing something : Tuning radios, Instrument cross check, speed, Altitude....if never you find your self doing something exept this kind of things, that means you forgot something :sad:

Tinribs
14th Jan 2012, 15:11
I saw lots of people using far too much time calculating an probable descent rate for NDB

The simplest way is halve the expected groundspeed. 180 knots become 900 fpm 140 knots = 700 and so on. Of course you will have to modify that on the actual approach according to situation but it is a good start

The less you have to think the more brain cells you have left over for flying

You have the right attitude to training, try hard, absorb as much advice as you can from the available areas

Best of luck, you will love the job