Air Training Corps (AIRTC)/ AAFC Alumni

[Keg]

I wasn't quite sure where to peg this one but given it's relevance to Dunnunda I thought it should at least go in one of these two forums.

Many of us in Australian aviation got our start through either the Air Training Corps (ATC, AirTC, AIRTC) or in more recent times, the Australian Air Force Cadets (AAFC).

The AAFC (as it is now known) has recently been investigating starting an alumni of former cadets and staff.

This is the link to the blurb on the AAFC website (http://www.aafc.org.au/our-supporters/alumni).

This is the link to the actual alumni website (https://sites.google.com/site/alumniofaircadets70/home).

It would be great if former cadets and staff could register their interest in the support of future generations of cadets. Even if it comes to nothing in the future, just registering will at least enable the working group to have a go. :cool:

[drop bear ten]

A bit like the old school network Keg? What happened to the egalitarian society that we once strived for where people actually got selected on the basis of effort and merit?

Your beloved Qantas and many other organisations are heading down the tube because of such recruiting behaviours. I know of one European Investment Bank who will not let a candidate past the first interview if they did not attend a private school.

And to answer your retort, no I did not get knocked back as I have never applied and yes, I did go to a private school :p

[Capt Claret]

Gees Drop Bear, what's not egalitarian about an alumni of former "cadets"?

I missed the bit between the lines that indicated if one wasn't an alumni one wouldn't get to work for which-ever organisation, or that those with merit or effort need not apply. :confused:

[Tankengine]

Whats wrong with organising piss-ups etc?:confused: :rolleyes:

[Keg]

Drop bear. Have you partaken of too much red wine? I think you're getting the AIRTC/AAFC confused with some preconceived notion you have regarding airline cadetships.

The AIRTC/ AAFC is one of the most egalitarian organisations that I've ever been a part of- at least the parts that I was involved with were. Every selection that I made of cadets for various promotion courses was only ever on the basis of their skill and effort. The uniform was a great equaliser in that whilst I knew the background of individual cadets, they had no idea of their respective backgrounds and so they competed with each other solely on the basis of competence and ability. It's what enabled kids from western suburbs and regional areas to dux promotion courses.

So check your attitude on this one. Your anti Qantas/ airline cadet/ (Keg? ) bias is showing. :=

[Tidbinbilla]

Moved here, and stickied for a while. AAFC (and its previous iterations) was, and still is a fantastic organisation responsible for kicking off the aviation careers of many young men and women :ok:

Methinks somebody owes an apology :=

TID

[porch monkey]

Sorry DB 10, but you're way out of line on this one. Thanks for bringing this to my attention at least Keg. Will be looking at it, as one of the lost!:ok:

[adsyj]

Nice work Keg.

Drop Bear I hope as keg has said you are confused with Qantas cadets otherwise you are just being a bloody Nark.

I was a scout by the way.

[Keg]

Thanks for the sticky Tid. :ok:

adsyj, even if drop bear ten has misread the post, he's still wrong about Qantas cadets. I had no siblings or parent in Qantas- only 1 out of 8 on our course did. I had public school education- as did 6 out of the 8 on our course. The old school tie may have helped some people get Qantas cadetships but the overwhelming majority were just lucky to fit the profile.

Anyway, back to the thread and the AAFC alumni.

[Taildragger67]

Keg,

Thanks for the heads-up, I'll be proud to register.

Skills I picked up in the AirTC have been useful (outside aviation) ever since. If the organisation gave youngsters some exposure to positive things (including and excluding aviation) which they may not have had otherwise, then it's worth it.

Yes I went to a private school but that meant zero when we were all dressed in blue overalls on a camp or promotion course (or helping Ken Paris in the kitchen making his 'stew'... ).

[Captain Dart]

For what it's worth and it is early days yet, Air TC memorabilia and archives will be incorporated into the Benalla Aviation Museum in 2012.

Current cadets have already flown in the Winjeel and Moth Minor based there and, of course, the gliders.

All alumni will be welcome :).

[frangatang]

Hear hear, nowt wrong with the ATC, apart from getting blackballed on summer camp, but the air aexperience flights in a chipmunk made up for that!

[rmcdonal]

And for all those who would like to know more about working with the AAFC Staff | Australian Air Force Cadets (http://www.aafc.org.au/how-to-join/staff)
The AAFC are always recruiting new staff and have SQNs scattered around all major cities and in a large number of country towns. :ok::ok:

[Like This - Do That]

I keep bumping into former members. I promoted one of my soldiers to LCPL a couple of weeks ago, and I mentioned something about having been in the AIRTC ... sure enough, he and his brother (who has just been commissioned and going AAAvn as a pilot) were members.

I've met COs and RSMs and manner in between who were AIRTC or AAFC cadets when younger. Seems the conversion rate from AIRTC to Army is even higher than the conversion to RAAF :ok:

[Keg]

The stats are a bit old (2006 I think) but the defence cadets provide 45% of ADFA entrants. The AAFC (7000 cadets) provided the same number of ADFA army officer cadet entrants as did the army cadets (17000 cadets). One in five ADFA entrants was formerly AAFC.

That said, the organization is shortly in for a significant change that has the potential to remove the significant volunteerism ethos.

[SgtBundy]

Registered - former CDTFSGT of 26Flt Lismore.

[over_centre]

That said, the organization is shortly in for a significant change that has the potential to remove the significant volunteerism ethos.

Any hint on what's happening, Keg?

I'm a former Officer that quit the organisation due to the increasing workload expected of staff, the self-serving attitude of some of the WG executives and frustration with goal posts constantly moving (don't get me started on OA86's, the evolution of Hector/CadetOne etc :bored: ).

Sure, I have fond memories of my time there but as a popular OC once said, "when the BS to fun ratio swings the wrong way it's time to go". Sadly I know of many in my former WG about to sign their resignation Minutes, and when this includes CO's and other Officers "at the coal face" there ought to be a review of what the organisation expects (demands) from its' staff.

[Keg]

Not for public dissemination over centre. Send me a PM with some of your history and I'll pass on what I've heard.

[john_tullamarine]

responsible for kicking off the aviation careers ...

For example, four off a NSW flying scholarship course of around 10 in the mid-60s -

(a) A - last I heard a 744 captain at QF

(b) B - eventually ended up in a religious calling and joined the RAAF as a chaplain - now semi-retired after ending up as a principal chaplain

(c) C - studied aero eng on the same course as I did and initially ended up in GA corporate.

(d) me - pilot and aero eng - and I freely acknowledge having had a ball over the years in both roles

Some of the others, no doubt, went on with aviation although I have long since lost contact with them.

[Hugh Jarse]

I had a great time in the ATC in the 70's. It motivated me to follow an aviation career.

Went back as an officer in the 90's, mostly working on flying camps. Had a ball giving something back :ok: A lot of the cadets from then are now flying for the majors around the world.

IMO, a very worthy organisation :)

[Stikybeke]

Ah yes....

I don't remember much about it but I do remember........:

The trips to Malabar range where you got to shoot the .303 enfield (if you didn't bruise you didn't count), the endless drill, the hobnailed boots with no traction/tread, everyone yelling at you (I was an LAC) for no apparent reason, the Cadet Under Officer that got busted doing something reeel sus by one of the staff who was a copper in real life. (No one ever knew what it was ....)

The camps down at Wagga going for a ride in the back of the Caribou where the pilots got kicks from making us kids terrified and / or sick (it was great!!!!!).

Definitely some of the best times of my life back in the early 70's at 14flt in Wollongong....Up on the hill next to the TV Station on top of the old gun emplacements.... it was only a couple of years but time well spent before the RAAF days...... I was a bit of a troublesome kid back then and I remember getting the (probably well deserved..) cane from a teacher at school, for a misdemeanour of some sort and then being made to double around the parade ground that same Thursday night when I turned up for parade to be greeted by the same guy who was also a PltOff ....just unlucky I guess. Didn't do me any harm though...should be more of it I say!!!

Stiky

[Stikybeke]

Thanks V45...

You've helped me to remember some other stuff. I spoke to my parents the other day and was reminded that it was 1971 - 1973 when I was with 14Flt. I remember riding my pushbike in the dark in the rain from where we lived in Wollongong Central of a Thursday night (either Thursday or Tuesday but Thursday sticks out...) in uniform with no lights. Never any problem with yahoos in cars giving me a hard time or any other issue.

The GST camps at Wagga, thanks for reminding me of the name, for the life of me I couldn't remember what they were called. And....the morris tubes, I'd also forgotten about them. Never got to fire the SLR though until joining the RAAF in 76...(down at 1RTU... and let me tell you that's where the real yelling and some good old bastardisation began, letters from home thrown in the bucket of water, short sheeting and emptying of ashtrays in the bed, running around the parade ground with the SLR above your head, weight 10lb 15oz - I remember that one)..... I never knew that the ammunition was from India although I did get alot of experience cleaning individual bullets as part of my training (never could figure that one out!)

It's funny how society changes though, I can recall all the 303's being stored in a cage at 14Flt that had a padlock on it which was in one of the buildings that ony had grated type wire on the windows. Mind you the Flt was within a fenced in compound. My point is, no one ever broke in there to steal a rifle, there was never any vandalism of the place that I can remember and I don't ever remember anyone being hassled or made fun of because they were part of AIRTC (not that happens today anyway....).

I must be getting old but I still reckon it didn't do me amy harm..

Stiky
:ok:

[SgtBundy]

My flight had some 9 or 10 decommissioned SLRs that we had for drill practice only - no firing pin and the barrels were welded, but they looked and sounded the stuff during drill and weapons training. I remember some young kids jaws hitting the ground as a group of us grabbed the rifles out of the back of the instructors car and did a gratuitous check safe on them just prior to a cenotaph guard for ANZAC day.

On the last day of the gun buyback amnesty an instructor took the SLRs down to the police to hand them in. Apparently, while in the queue with 10 SLRs someone told him he was lucky he wasn't arrested on the spot ;)

We got to shoot off some SLRs once at Richmond. I think we had at least two cadets bruise their cheek with the recoil, and one guy was so proud because he got a casing shaped burn mark from where it ejected onto his arm.

I think we were also the first promotion course to get taught Styer drill (but missed out on shooting them) to use for our passing out parade. Reason was Browwyn Bishop was reviewing and as defence minister we had to turn out a proper general salute for her (or so we were told). Funniest part was the parade officer (a 6'4" WOFF) escorting the 4' defence minister during the review to the sound of "Darth Vaders march". :D

My first GST at Richmond we were waiting in a hanger for a ride in a herc, and some cadets discovered the massive stash of pr0n in the toilets. A sudden rush of male cadets to go to the toilet then started, with a number coming back with a small portion of that collection stuffed under their greens.:}

Also got to experience hanging my feet out the back of a caribou doing 500ft over coastal headlands, and standing on a building at a bombing range while an F-111 did a 100-200ft pass over the top of us (the sound nearly knocked us off the building).

I took part in the IACE program and did an exchange to France for 2 weeks, which was basically a contiki tour of France supported by the French Air Force in company with 11 different countries cadet/youth flying organisations. We got to see some cool stuff like the Arianne rocket factory, the Airbus factory and some tours of one or two air bases we flew between. We also got to do the normal tourist stuff and experience local culture which was pretty good for a 16 year old :ok:

I enjoyed a lot about the AIRTC, met my wife and a few friends through there and gained a lot of experiences I could not have got otherwise. The parts I did not enjoy (cliques, how who you know matters more than proper process, egos at work etc) did set me up wider eyed for later in life.

[Taildragger67]

Bundy, Stiky & V45,

I know someone who will be very happy to hear that your memories of various exploits, are good & happy ones; he would've helped facilitate them.

Thanks

Me? Best memory is being allowed to (lightly) touch the controls of a 'bou on the way back from a task around Nowra. I think I was 16. Fun morning's work, that.

[Stikybeke]

Hey Bundy and TD!!!.....WTF??????

You got to go to France at age what? and TD, you got to fly the Bou at age what after you finished dropping bouys into the drink off Nowra?

Sounds like the rest of us were in the wrong Flights!!
:uhoh:
Stiky

[Taildragger67]

Let me clarify - I was allowed to sit in the F/O's seat whilst he went down the back to make a call on the p!ssaphone. I was allowed to place a hand lightly on the yoke as the PIC made some attitude adjustments. I'm gilding the lily somewhat to say I had the ship. Have modified previous post accordingly.

[Stikybeke]

No problem TD....

I just consider you blokes were alot more fortunate than I was :ooh: Right time, right place I guess.....

Stiky
:ok:

[Like This - Do That]

V45, I was in 18 Flt too. By that time (early-mid 1980s) it was at Laguna Street Public School in Caringbah. We picked up a heap of drill purpose L1A1s, enough to equip all of 18 Flt for parades. Also had several SMLE .303 No1 MkIII, a No4, and IIRC a 'Jungle Carbine', a number of bolt action .22s, and a BREN gun (sadly deactivated).

I suspect 318 Sqn (18 Flt's successor) doesn't have such a cool array of weapon systems!

GSTs ... I'd forgotten that name! I did three or four GSTs at Willy & Fairbairn, adventure training at Orange, and JNCO & SNCO courses at Willy & Richmond respectively. Had plenty of UH-1H flights, one Caribou flight, and twice missed out on a flight in a Miracle by "this much ...!!!"

Happy days.

[Keg]

I have a photo lying on top of 18FLT's 46 SLRs just before taking them to the buy back. The Bren got far less in the buy back than an SLR did.

318SQN still has .22s- about 12 of them I think.

After Laguna st 18FLT went to Port Hacking High in about 1991, moved to Cronulla High about 96 or early 97, then to the Sutherland multi user depot (a name for a place that purports to be for the use of 'multi users' but instead is for the sole use of th ARes with the AAFC pushed into sub standard accommodation for what they are trying to achieve) about 2004/5. I may be wrong on the date of the move to the MUD.

You were a bit before my time Like this- do that but Col Palmer is now back at 318 after very successful stints in NSW HQ and then as Commander AAFC.

[Like This - Do That]

Keg, I had a chat with some AAFC officers in the mess at Richmond ... 7? 8? months ago. I asked about Colin Palmer and heard he'd taken a reduction in rank to return to command 318.

I occasionally wonder about former members. Do you know if Frank Barclay is still with us? I haven't seen him for over a decade.

[Keg]

Col's tenure as CDR-AAFC ended and he's been one of the few to take a reduction in rank once his 'job' no longer entailed that rank. He's not commanding 318 though. He still has national responsibility for .22 policy and training of range control officers.

Frank passed away a few years back- not sure exactly when. Lovely bloke and a great supporter of 18FLT/ 318SQN.

I think 318 still parade on a Wednesday evening if ever you're in the area.

[catseye]

thought it appropriate to mention Camden. Bottom hut is still there, top hut went up in smoke.


Interesting to see the number of current senior RAAF staff were ex ants. At one stage the 3 fighter CO's were ex gliding or flying scolarship recipients.

where do you get it?????:=

[Tidbinbilla]

Froze my arse off many times in the bottom hut, way back when in the 70's, on Field Training and Alan Lear's Aeromuddling camps.

Who remembers the "Camden Knobs" cooked in the mess up the top? :8:}

[Stikybeke]

Ants.!!!!

I'd forgotten that name...I remember poor old FtLt Kennedy who I think was one of the forefathers of AIRTC down at 14flt who never said too much but carried a fair bit of clout!!!.I think he's since passed away.....and there was also one of the CUO's, a really nice bloke, Chris Wylie, who joined the RAAF as a pilot and was at 77sqn but later tragically lost his life in a midair with another Mirage somewhere near Townsville if memory serves me correctly.....

Ah the memories are starting to come back...

Stiky

[Taildragger67]

Just FYI lads, Vic "Dizzy" Divola (former CO NSWSQN) departed for The Great Flight in the Sky just a few months ago. Not many of the 'old hands' to go... :sad:

Keg,

Are there still any .303s (some perhaps the .22 version?) at ex-18Flt?

Ah, Camden... did my powered flying course there, soloed after Greg Ferster just told me to pull off the TWY and jumped out, saying 'off you go, just do a couple of circuits and come back'. Nothing will ever beat that feeling of my first solo climb-out at about 8am on a sunny summer morning. :ok:

Also did my CDTSGT promotion course there (met Ken Paris for the first time - lovingly woken each morning with him banging a rubbish bin yelling "hands off ****s, on socks").

Also did a gliding week at Bathurst (and managed to pick up chicken pox, still got the scars), an annual GST and CDTCPL promo at Riccy, plus my CUO course with TAS Sqn in Hobart. Fun days.

As for the brass, I think Angus Houston was an Ant; not sure about the current crop.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

My best memory was one of the last federally funded squadron bivs at Peachy Forest. A lovely little place that would get rather cold in August....THE best bit was lining up in a chalk to await an Iroquois to land on the side of the New England Highway(Seriously!) Skids on the ground thumbs up from the crewy and two sticks...er chalks on and we were gone. Near new PRC25 radioes (HQ had 75s to talk to the choppers) and those fashionable survival hats and ALL the food you could eat, cooked up by a detachment from the Amberley Airman's Mess...Cookies luved us ants.:ok:

It was a shock to see what we persevered with after 75. But survive we did!

WOD on the back of one giant formation in Warana 77 or 78. I think we had over 200 cadets all marching as one unit. Now that was fun sizeing up:p tallest on the left shortest on the right....You know...thats what the current mob just haven't got right..We had cadence in our drill...from leather soled ABs to the way we gave our commands. Very "It Aint Alf Ot Mum". When we marched you could tell we were in step...you could hear it a mile away. Coming to a halt...those check paces just quickened a fraction...now it looks like a lead in to Bolshoi number...bludy army drill..ruined everything!

[cficare]

Don't like the organisation at all.

Had a person start up at YDLQ (initials "DA") a few years ago....was going to close my business and take over my student list!! didn't last long....didn't do much for ATC's reputation in that part of the world!

I've meet heaps of ATC students since (not from YDLQ) that have the 'right' attitude and will go far.

[Keg]

Taildragger, 318 still has the .303s. They use them for ceremonial occasions. The vets love seeing cadets using the .303 for drill on Anzac day.

cficare. Sorry you had a bad experience with the AAFC at Deniliquin although I don't get your story. If they were starting a SQN then how was that going to take your student list?!? Or was it an AAFC staff member who moved to DLQ and was going to start a business as their private income whilst running the SQN.

The reality is that for every great AIRTC/ AAFC staff member there is at least one- and depending on your region, significantly more- staff members who are having the military career that they never had in the military. They get off on the uniform, the salutes, the perceived 'power' of lording it over teenagers and other staff. I would tolerate those people if they were still enabling some great opportunities for cadets but as soon as the focus of their Walter Mitty antics detracted significantly from the cadet outcome then I did my best to shine the spotlight on them.

I still think that the organisation delivers great outcomes if you're in the right SQN. There are certainly SQNs where I would NOT send my child.

[Dogman]

Thanks Keg..... Just registered and will pass on the link to all my mates who are not probably watching Prune.

Cheers

Dogman..... CUO 10 FLT Warradale SA

[scran]

Taildragger,

Mark Binskin was a cadet with me in 3FLT Camden in the early 70's :ok:

[catseye]

Scran,

his younger brother was a 3 flt person also.

[Lookleft]

I didn't do any bush camps but I do remember the gliding camps at Narromine. September sleeping in the WW2 huts in Dubbo was also a fond memory. The first camp was a famil course doing 1 flight a day and spending the rest of the time on the bus. The second one was a first solo course doing 4 flights a day with the last flight being a solo. One of the cadets got all out of shape in the Blanik and clipped the wing of a Janus on his solo. Today he would have been grounded pending a psychological assesment but then he was put back in and given another go!

[Robert kenney]

Well all I can say is that I was an AIRTC cadet at 17 flight vic squadron. I did 6 years in the RAAF (rarely air Bourne after four) and finished as a bitter twisted angry young man. Absolutely hated it! Would have been better of robing a bank and doing time. Didn't give me much of a start in flying, I had to do it all of my own back with out any help at all from the RAAF or the AIRTC. But stuff all of them I now fly around Africa dodge elephants and hipposon the runway. Top job. In short yes I hate RAAF and yes I am bitter about the time in my life the RAAF wasted and the lies I was told at recruiting. And yes I was not the model airman but I had no reason to be.

[dazza38]

I was in the AIRTC and I had a great time in the early eighties. I joined the RAAF in November 1988 until April 1998.I was a Airframe Fitter/ Aircraft technician. I enjoyed both.

[Tibbsy]

And yes I was not the model airman but I had no reason to be.

Says it all really.


Keg - I've registered but heard nothing further for a number of months. Are things going to kick a long a bit faster soon?

Cheers
Tibbsy

[Wizofoz]

Ah, Camden... did my powered flying course there, soloed after Greg Ferster just told me to pull off the TWY and jumped out, saying 'off you go, just do a couple of circuits and come back'. Nothing will ever beat that feeling of my first solo climb-out at about 8am on a sunny summer morning.

That brought a tear to my eye.

Greg just pre-dated me at 3 flight and I got to know him GAing around Camden.

Another great guy taken from us too early.

[Keg]

Tibbsy, I'm not sure what is happening with the alumni from here. My intent was to advertise it and help it gain critical mass but beyond that, I don't know what's planned.

I'm considering offering my services to the CDR to assist but indeed to think that through a bit more. I'm not sure whether I want to revisit the AAFC just yet.

[Tibbsy]

I'm not sure whether I want to revisit the AAFC just yet.

Yes, I know what you mean. Some years ago, I attempted to restart some powered flying for AAFC in SA but gave up after months of frustrating dealings with the HQ. Whilst I understand the AAFC is a volunteer organisation, I became very frustrated with the lack of interest shown by key adult staff in the cadets themselves. It became an exercise in banging your head against a brick wall :ugh:

I really enjoyed my time as a cadet but dealing with the adults who are only in the organisation for their own ego is what has kept me away from the organisation for the last couple of decades.

I hope the alumni organisation offers an alternative means of providing assistance.

[Aeromuz]

This is a great idea Keg, I have just registered. The AAFC was a key factor in helping me learn to fly and many cadets I have since taught.

I do miss the EFTC camps at YCUN with 716 FLT. :ok:

[Slasher]

Why are ATC cadets now wearing army-style hats iso the old cnut caps?

[SgtBundy]

Hat fur felt? Probably sun protection reasons - always wanted one when I was in the AIRTC but never had the money on camps when we had an opportunity to buy them. Still "bashing" your giggle cap helped fill idle time during camps or bivouacs.

[Keg]

Yep. OHS won the day on that one. Actually much more expensive than a garrison cap. Harder to get the right sizes for cadets too. It's both every day wear and ceremonial dress.

[TBM-Legend]

loved every minute of my time ...CUO 10 Flt TWB...

[Slasher]

Just on the subject anyone remember this Fred Valentic who
disappeared over Bass Straight in a 182(?) during the 70s?
Made big news as he transmitted he was being sucked up by
a UFO.

I recall it was mentioned he was a member of the AirTC (just
after it was renamed from ATC). After a bit of digging it was
stated he was a LAC at 16 Flight South Melbourne.

Did they ever find him or his shark-bitten bones?

BTW what the hell is a CUO? Cnut Under Officer like a WOD?

[SgtBundy]

Not WOD, that is far above the poor darlings station I dare say dear chap.
The cnut part is right though. :}

[Keg]

Slasher, CUO- Cadet Under Officer. Basically the king of the cadet ranks.

Cadet- CDT
Leading Cadet- LCDT
Cadet Corporal- CCPL
Cadet Sergeant- CSGT
Cadet Flight Sergeant- CFSGT
Cadet Warrant Officer- CWOFF
Cadet Under Officer- CUO

At good squadrons (flights back in the old days), the CUO essentially ran the SQN under supervision of staff. It was a cadet management position. Obviously it's a bit more nuanced than that.

The Cadet Warrant Officer was normally the WOD type role at the SQN. Some SQNs used an adult staff member in the position (AC-CPL normally) but I preferred using a CWOFF in the role being mentored by a junior staff member who officially held no title.

[SgtBundy]

Our flight was a little odd I think in that we promoted as soon as the person qualified for the rank, i.e you pass a promotion course, the application for promotion goes in the next week, a few weeks later a round of promotions goes through.

Ended up in the odd situation of having at one time I think one CUO, four CDTFSGT, five CDTSGT, two CDTCPL and 35 CDTs. At that point it descended into nepotism with a clique of NCOs running the show and those on the outside effectively treated like junior NCOs, even though they were the same or even higher ranks. The poor CPLs constantly were getting countermanded by the next SNCO that walked up to them, it was impossible to form a parade properly because there was no real assigned positions and the SNCOs could not fall into the ranks.

Still - I loved having those chevrons on my arm - they just felt right.

[Keg]

A long time between updates from this mob. Perhaps this will help a bit?

ALUMNI ASSOCIATION UPDATE - 6 JUNE 2012


It is now just over a year since ATC/AIRTC/AAFC Alumni project was launched. The initial target was 1000 Registrants and while that has not been reached, more than 600 former cadets and staff have expressed their interest in being part of an Alumni. With such an impressive response the AAFC National Council has decided that number was sufficient to justify proceeding with a Request for Tender (RFT) to industry for the on-line administrative support for the Alumni.



The RFT was distributed to a small number of organisations that have experience in this, or similar, activities. The responses were received on 01 June 2012 and will be evaluated by the Working Party. Hopefully these responses will allow the AAFC National Council to pursue the full-time on-line support for the Alumni during the third quarter of 2012.While the AAFC National Council will be funding the initial cost of establishing the on-line support system, it is expected that in the longer term the Alumni will need to become self-sufficient to survive.



Further advice on the on-line aspect of the Alumni development will be provided as the situation becomes clearer. However, it has become apparent that for the on-line system to function effectively there will be a need for a small number of volunteers across Australia to act as points of contact between the Working Group and the various AAFC Wings at a local level, in order to get timely information about AAFC activities that may be of interest to the Alumni. If you would be interested in assisting in such a role please contact the Working Group at: [email protected]

Finally, please keep spreading the word about the Alumni. Out of the 40,000 or so who have worn the uniform of the Australian Air Cadets since the organisation began 70 years ago, there must be many more former members around the country who have yet to hear about the proposed Alumni Association.

Regards,
Alumni Advisory Group

[Di_Vosh]

Just on the subject anyone remember this Fred Valentic who
disappeared over Bass Straight in a 182(?) during the 70s?
Made big news as he transmitted he was being sucked up by
a UFO.

I remember. I was at 15 Sqn (Melbourne High school) and Fred was a good mate with our then CUO, who's name I forget.

He was going to accompany Fred on that flight but couldn't for some reason.

[gnomie]

From memory he was flying a C182 VH-DSJ, not sure what this has to go with this thread. No3 Flt Brighton

[RobbieG]

The Alumni Association is now in the process of being established.
A web site is being developed and a facebook page has been set up...
Australian Air Cadets Alumni Association | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Australian-Air-Cadets-Alumni-Association/454051267967537)

[Bonniciwah]

Going for my flying lesson at Pt Cook a couple of weeks ago I saw the cadets had their annual drill competition, which brought back heaps of memories to when we, No.11 Flight VicAIRTC Footscray won it in the mid-1980s. We square bashed for months before it, and were drill machines by the end of it.

I hated the bivouacs, though because I was small I was able to sneak heaps of contraband in my baggy khakis which made survival easier.

I loved the GSTs at East Sale. I got to spend a week doing work experience on the Central Flying School flight line when it still had Macchis. We'd sit around looking at Penthouse magazines (imagine the uproar if they let 15yos do that now) waiting for someone to yell out "Macchi down", and then go out and get the plane ready for its next flight. We never managed a flight in the Macchi or CT4, like one senior officer's son, but we did score one in a HS-748.

We also got to fly in the AIRTC's own C172 known as the Yellow Peril and flown by this short AIRTC officer who the RAAF guys called 'The Penguin'.

GST's also included kitchen duty, where your efforts were rewarded with trays of the best jelly you ever tasted. Oh and we also learned to go to sick parade on the first day because the RAAF doctors would kindly give us a week long exemption from marching.

I also did a weapons training course at Laverton which all kids should do. Really taught me about gun/rifle safety - and I got to shoot an SLR.

Had great times though there was quite a bit of nepotism centred around our CO's son and his friends when it came to promotions and flying opportunities, so a few of us followed our 2IC to a new flight - 5 Flight at the old Tottenham RAAF depot, where I got to be a squad leader. I lost interest once I discovered beer and girls.

I never joined the RAAF and am only now just learning to fly. But one of the skills I did take away was being able to get up and instruct a class.

And I still remember my serial number off the top of my head - 119050. I think I have my PT246 somewhere too.

So I was glad to see it still going strong last week. Thanks for head up Keg.

[Tightly Wound]

Had a scan but didn't see anyone from WA in here...so I thought I'd throw in a note from someone who did it on the other side of the country; I was a WAAIRTC cadet from the late 80s and early 90's.

I was interested to see that Bundy went on the IACE programme to France. Stiky, we never heard about this over in the west either but as luck would have it I am actually now familiar with the concept because they still run it each year.

Boeing sponsors the IACE programme and I have been asked to speak to the cadets on behalf of BDA twice now. It is pretty cool, in fact, to see the many places that take part. I have spoken to cadets from UK, US, Canada, Hong Kong, Korea, France, Netherlands and a couple of others, all of whom only got to Aus as part of this programme.

1 Flight Cannington, Perth, had a good time!

TW

[tyler_durden_80]

Only just saw this thread. Anyone happen to be an ex member of/remember what flight was at Port Hacking High School during the mid/late 90's. Prob too young for most of you old folk. 3 years and 1 promotion, gosh the memories

[alphacentauri]

I have a vague recollection that might have been 2 FLT Miranda


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[really old cadet]

Good evening,

Was browsing the net and came across this forum. Saw mention of a blast from the past in Col Palmer. I was an ATC RAAF cadet at the same time as Col. I joined 9FLT NSWSQN Canterbury Boys High at the end of 1969, left as a CUO at the end of 1974. At school flights once you left school you could no longer be in the unit. Col and I had a many a good time at Camden during field training, he was a Warrant Officer I was a CUO.

Some years later I join the ATC Reserves at Jannali, Col was there as a corporal (I think). The Commander was Flt Lt. Lindsay Lobwein. Due to work pressures I could not continue my service and reluctantly tendered my resignation.

Every now and then I seen AAFC going about their duties and all the memories of the good time and great friends comes flooding back.

Thanks.

Russell Bryant
Former ATC RAAF Cadet 106541

[Stiff Under Carriage]

Wow.

Lindsay Lobwein sent me first Area Solo back in DEC 1997.

I was 15Flt Fairbairn (Canberra). I left as a SGT in 1998 when I finished school. Did my EFTC Courses at Camden. Went to RAAF Amberly for the Airshow that got cancelled. Think it was in 96'. CPL Course at Wagga and SGT Course at ADFA. I think it was the only one held there. I remember the Warrant Officer we had, not his name though but he was very motivating. Also did one of those 7 day courses at RAAF Richmond.

My most memorable moment, one of many I guess was competing in the Drill Competition. Our flight took victory for the 6th year in a row. Our "Change Step" was amazing. Anyone that was there would definitely remember it. Possibly 1996/97.

Was good times.

[Keg]

Hmmm. Your CO was Richard Northam. 18FLT probably ran second in that drill comp for about the sixth year in a row too.

Fair chance I was an instructor on one of your Pre Selection Training Courses at RAAF Fairbairn at that time although I normally had more to do with the CUO and CWOFF candidates. When did you do your SNCO course at WAG? Mid '96 or mid '97? I was the CWOFF CSECDR in Jul '96 that time. Was that ADFA course Jan '97 or Jan '98?

I still catch up with Lindsay Lobwein from time to time.

[really old cadet]

I am not sure about today, but in the past we were issued a book, known as the ATC12, Record of Service. I still have mine, it basically catalogues each course undertaken as well as dates of promotion etc. I did so much in my time with the ATC, that I had to add pages to the book. Mainly for weapons and range activities, including the .22 calibre SMLE (known as the Morris tubes), the .303 SMLE, the SLR, F1 sub machine gun, Browning Hi Power pistol and M60 machine gun.

I realise that this is a bit off topic, but in my day we shot at figure targets, that was before someone decided it was turning us all into little killers.

Flying activities included the Cessna 172 (Lindsay took use on that at Camden), Caribou and Hercules C130 A and E. Some lucky so and so's were carried in Iroquois, sadly I was not one of them.

Courses were conducted mainly at RAAF Wagga, but did my junior NCO course at RAAF Richmond.

Camden was for field training and aeromodelling courses. In winter it was brutal, the accommodation was an unlined nissan type hut, the showers usually cold. The mess hall was usually the only warm spot. In summer the reverse was the case HOT. Model aircraft were built in a disused WWII air-raid bunker which was off into the bush on the left side of the road as you drive into the airfield.

All these memories... speaking of which Lindsay must be in his 70 now??

Russell Bryant

[Stiff Under Carriage]

Small world it would appear. Your are correct. Richard Northam was the CO. My JNCO course was 2/96 (July). My SNCO course was 1/98 (Jan).

I used to catch up with Robert Hobson for a while, but it's probably been 10yrs since I spoke to him last.

From what I can make out, the Drill Competition was in Aug 96 at Richmond.

[Keg]

We certainly shared some time on the parade ground at Wagga in Jul '96 then.

For former NSWAIRTC/ 3WGAAFC CUOs and CWOFFs (or CDTWOFFs as they were prior to about 2000ish), 322 SQNAAFC (formerly 22FLT NSWAIRTC) maintains records of all the promo courses for as far back as we can go.

If you can fill in some blanks that'd be great too. Website here (http://322squadron.org/promotion-course-history-home).

[Stiff Under Carriage]

Many familiar names in those records there Keg. Thanks.

Check your PM's.

[Trojan1981]

I had a great time in the AIRTC (2 Flt, Bexley) and ended up catching up with several ex-members during my service in the Army. Two of us ended up at 3RAR and later at JMOVGP. One is an ADFA grad (and we hold that against him!) Engineer in the Army. I'm also still in touch with my former Flt Cmdr, who is a cop.

Another, Matt Goodall, was tragically killed in the 2005 Seaking crash on Nias. No bullsh!t, he was a top bloke and a natural leader who could get along with just about anyone. A very capable person taken at just 25. :(

[Keg]

This is starting to get a little creepy.

Trojan1981, it appears that you and I have also shared some similar tarmac albeit at slightly different times. I was an ex 2FLT cadet (86-90) before becoming a staff member at 18FLT. Your former FLTCDR isn't a cop anymore (I presume you mean PA?). Got out very recently. I was corresponding with him a week ago and we stalk each other on FB. I became FLTCDR/ CO of 2FLT/ 302SQN after him in January 2000.

Matt was between my times of service with 2FLT but I'd known of him via promo courses and the occasional tie up between 2FLT and 18FLT.

Russell, Lindsay is still late '60s I think. He retired from QF aged close to 65 a couple of years ago. I think he'd be 68 at the oldest? Perhaps a year younger or older depending on how strong my recollection is of when he finished up at QF.

[really old cadet]

Keg,

Thanks for the info re Lindsay.

Saw another name that bought back memories, Frank Barclay. Frank started at 9FLT, just before I left in 1974. He was an ex RAAF pilot, flew Mitchells in the Korean war I think. When 9FLT was disbanded I don't remember where he went, it might have to the Jannali Boys High flight, but cannot remember him being there. It was about the time Col Palmer was promoted from AC to corporal in the AIRTC staff. Interestingly staff were Auxiliary Air Force in my day, as opposed to Reserve Air Force. They were nicknamed the 'Rocket Squad' because of the triangular patch worn on their uniforms.

I saw mentioned various posts re courses conducted at Wagga. I did my CUO's couse at RAAF Wagga in January 1972. It was 3 weeks of hot and hard work. Anyway at the end of the course we were paraded waiting for the buses to arrive. The couse commander made an annoucement that if anyone had souvenired any items including cutlery, that we had 5 mins to return it no questions asked. After that trouble! At the end of the 5 minutes something like 200 plus knives, forks and spoons were returned to the OR's mess. Several dozens rounds of live ammunition and a OR's RAAF cap badge. No wonder they were glad to see the end of the ants....

Russell

[Trojan1981]

There you go!

I didn't know PA was out. I am friends with him on FB and had intended to catch up with him at HARS a few weeks ago but work got in the way. I will have to give him a call. I was there '96-'97 before I moved away and eventually joined the Army.

PM'd

[CAC fitter]

another ex 11 flight footscray cadet, in the early 70's we dominated the drill comp, i remember the endless practice at the back of the hyde street primary school

[Olive61]

Keg - many thanks for the heads up - I'm a definite starter. Many moons ago I used to hitchike down Warrigal Road to Moorabbin on the weekends and help pump Avgas on one of Dysons Refuellers old trucks. About every 8 weeks I could afford 1 hour in a chippie. At that rate, it was going to take me about 2000 years to get a licence !! I joined the ATC at age 10 at Frognall. After a lot of hard work 6 years later, Bingo, I won one of the flying scholarships. It was a dream come true. Been in the game for 5 decades now and don't think it all would have happened without the scholarship. RIP Flt Lt A R Loveless - you are well remembered.

[DAKOTA]

Some great memories there, some great instructors setting the scene for our aviation careers; Wings, Beth, Ron and John. Our Alumni website will be launched this month now that we have found enough interested in sharing.

[DAKOTA]

Officially launched yesterday, the alumni link is available at:

Australian Air Cadets Alumni Home (http://www.aircadetsalumni.org.au/)

[PascoePete]

Odd Question.
Fred was a adult reservist at 16 Flight, North Melbourne.
Rank was Aircraftsman.
One of my younger broters was a cadet there ate the time I think.

I was in 16 Flight when I first came across Fred at an NCO traing camp at Laverton.
He was a cadet in the corporal's course.
I don't think he was in 16 flight at the time.

Hope that helps.

[onlyamericancadet]

Hello Gentleman

Ive been frustrated with the AIRTC alumni pages that you can register to and not really get to see the others who registred. So Ive created the "AIRTC Flying School Camden Facebook page so we can share pictures and stories.

Please come and join and spread the word to others who attended.

I was at Camden Flying with AIRTC 1993-1995. Both Lobweins were there Senior and Junior. Im easy to remember since Im the only American at that course.

See you on the facebook group page..Past and present Flying Cadets of Camden

Jonathan Reed

[al johnson]

Hi

I suspect we may have known each other ... your number is very close to mine

al

[Ex2flight]

I had a great time in the AIRTC (2 Flt, Bexley) and ended up catching up with several ex-members during my service in the Army. Two of us ended up at 3RAR and later at JMOVGP. One is an ADFA grad (and we hold that against him!) Engineer in the Army. I'm also still in touch with my former Flt Cmdr, who is a cop.

Another, Matt Goodall, was tragically killed in the 2005 Seaking crash on Nias. No bullsh!t, he was a top bloke and a natural leader who could get along with just about anyone. A very capable person taken at just 25. :(

Hi Trojan 1981,
I have just come across this rather old post while trying to find info on 2 Flight.
​​​​​I was there somewhere around 1991-1995
I remember Matthew Goodall also, such a shame.

[Ex2flight]

This is starting to get a little creepy.

Trojan1981, it appears that you and I have also shared some similar tarmac albeit at slightly different times. I was an ex 2FLT cadet (86-90) before becoming a staff member at 18FLT. Your former FLTCDR isn't a cop anymore (I presume you mean PA?). Got out very recently. I was corresponding with him a week ago and we stalk each other on FB. I became FLTCDR/ CO of 2FLT/ 302SQN after him in January 2000.

Matt was between my times of service with 2FLT but I'd known of him via promo courses and the occasional tie up between 2FLT and 18FLT.

Russell, Lindsay is still late '60s I think. He retired from QF aged close to 65 a couple of years ago. I think he'd be 68 at the oldest? Perhaps a year younger or older depending on how strong my recollection is of when he finished up at QF.
Hi Keg,
I was at 2 FLT somewhere around 1991-1995.
I'm sure the PA you and Trojan are referring to was my FLTCDR at the time.
It would be great to see who else I can find from my time there