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View Full Version : New airline to start LCY - New York ?


vulcanised
19th Dec 2011, 16:42
Sounds possible. Or does it ?

Exclusive - New airline plans London City-NY link - Yahoo! (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/exclusive-airline-plans-london-city-ny-163752536.html)

G-ARZG
19th Dec 2011, 17:05
"it would be able to cross the Atlantic in one hop when carrying a small load of passengers."

C-series website shows range of 2950nm :ugh:???

willy wombat
19th Dec 2011, 17:27
It will either never happen or be shortlived if it does. Going head to head against the power of the BA Executive Club in that market would be a no hoper.

vctenderness
20th Dec 2011, 17:38
A long shot I know but could 'The Big Orange Man' be involved?

He made those statements about a new airline earlier this year and Odyssey is Greek

west lakes
20th Dec 2011, 18:17
The article also fails to point out that BA passengers also clear US customs and immigration during the refuel, something those on a non-stop would have to do at JFK

Narrow Runway
20th Dec 2011, 18:50
Icarus was also Greek.

He didn't fly too well either.

Cyrano
20th Dec 2011, 20:54
"it would be able to cross the Atlantic in one hop when carrying a small load of passengers."

C-series website shows range of 2950nm :ugh:???

No need for the headbanging smiley. Bombardier anticipates that with a business-class-type payload (eg 50 rather than 110 seats) the aircraft can do LCY to US East Coast, so the statement in the article may in fact be (gasp!) accurate.

4468
20th Dec 2011, 23:19
The article also fails to point out that BA passengers also clear US customs and immigration during the refuel, something those on a non-stop would have to do at JFK

One would have to be pretty desperate to describe a techstop as an advantage!!

PAXboy
20th Dec 2011, 23:45
Against BA Exec Club?
In a small company without the ability to ship you on to other services if there is a tech failure?
In a company without the experience and established paths of interworking with other carriers?

Well may be.

BUT:-


In the deepest recession since the 1930s??

Not a chance. Expect to see this resurface whenever we get out of this pile of dwang. (South African slang that is self explanatory!)

Iver
21st Dec 2011, 01:11
The press release mentioned 10 aircraft being purchased. So, one could assume more than one North American destination from LCY. Perhaps Toronto, Boston, Washington and Philadelphia with a few cycles for certain destinations (NY and BOS).

Not sure LCY has the ramp space for 5-10 more aircraft the size of the C-Series (certainly bigger than the FK50). I agree a huge challenge would be overcoming BA's loyalty points programme - all business types want to get points to take their family on holiday. That's a huge market entry barrier.

sanook
21st Dec 2011, 04:34
Maybe but maybe they are in negotiations to be part of an alliance thus offering Skyteam or Star permutations or perhaps be part of something which is already quite sandy and big ??

Torquelink
21st Dec 2011, 08:49
Smacks of Bombardier clutching at increasingly thin straws for C Series sales . . .

Groundloop
21st Dec 2011, 09:55
One would have to be pretty desperate to describe a techstop as an advantage!!

It's a massive advantage! Only 30 odd people to clear customs and immigration at Shanon as opposed to joining a queue of hundreds or even thousands at JFK. The BA flight is treated in JFK as a domestic arrival.

Not sure LCY has the ramp space for 5-10 more aircraft the size of the C-Series

LCY has plans to build a lot more larger stands.

VIKING9
21st Dec 2011, 10:37
I heard the Stelios project is to be based in Africa :confused:

PAXboy
21st Dec 2011, 13:09
Interesting info, Iver. IF Bombardier are subsidising / partnering and IF Star Alliance feel the need for a toe- hold, then it would change the balance.

However, I remain sceptical that this can be pulled off in a recession.

davidjohnson6
21st Dec 2011, 23:43
Let us suppose that LCY sees a big expansion in transatlantic business-only flights.
What effect does this have on flights from LHR to the eastern seaboard ?

Presumably if Odyssey launch from LCY, then BA will have a competitive response from LHR - at least until Odyssey are squished or BA decide to stop the blood letting and accept Odyssey as a competitor.

Now suppose that BA launch a significant expansion of transatlantic from LCY. What happens to the flights from LHR to the same destinations ? Is LCY really just a metaphorical drop in the ocean with plenty more demand for transatlantic business class seats anyway, or is this going to make a big dent on profitability by part cannibalising existing transatlantic flights from LHR ?

Aero Mad
22nd Dec 2011, 00:44
davidjohnson6, I think that any talk of 10 or 15 aircraft for Odyssey is an exaggeration: there is only a limited market for premium travel between Europe and the USA, as MAXjet, Silverjet and to some extent both Openskies (having chopped Washington) and BA (running only two 38 seat aircraft) show.

But, on the assumption that Odyssey would use the CS100ER, ten of those would still only give a total seat capacity of probably 500 seats (if they rip half the seats out for long haul ops) - roughly the same as one 747-400. Given that BA run such a high frequency service between LHR and JFK, I can't see Odyssey making the slightest difference to their LHR loads/profitability. And, up against the BA Executive Club, they're unlikely to take much off BA's LCY-JFK loads either.

If the market was larger and BA were to expand transatlantic ops from LCY, then perhaps Odyssey would have the opportunity to make a larger impact but as I say, the demand simply isn't there for them to do anything groundbreaking - the loads on BA's LCY pond-hopping services are nothing to write home about (although exorbitant fares continue to keep them profitable) so there simply isn't the space.

jabird
22nd Dec 2011, 03:00
the loads on BA's LCY pond-hopping services are nothing to write home about

I heard somewhere (sorry no source) that they were 70%+, maybe even 90%, or was that a different route - still at superb yields, especially as all biz.

When this route was first talked of, I wondered how they'd get round the tech stop, but that seems to have worked ok, and isn't a problem on the return leg.

I also remember EOS heavily advertising around Canary Wharf - all well and good, but clearly not good enough.

I'd struggle to think which other US cities have anything like the same need for such a service? I would guess IAD has some top ranking politicos, yes there is plenty of hi-tech stuff around the beltway, but the same as NYC? Chicago may be have more financials - still a big futures centre iirc, but are we still within range?